Neem Oil for Aphids?

[Cassie_Gator]

Hi there,

I am new to this forum. I was searching the other day for what the little green bugs are that came out of nowhere and made their home on my antique rose buds. The answer came from this forum--aphids--and then what to use on them also came from here--Neem Oil.

My problem is this: I mixed (correctly) and sprayed the oil two days in a row and although there are fewer aphids, they still are not gone. What do I do?

I live in North Central Florida, and it's pretty hot here already (don't know it that matters or not.)

Thanks in advance for your help!

[The Helpful Gardener]

Aphids often do not drop off after they have died. Are we sure we are not looking at little skeletons?

HG

[Cassie_Gator]

Yes--some are dead, but unfortunately many of the little green guys are still crawlers.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Insecticidal soap is another control itself and can make them more permeable and accepting of pathogens; I have had good luck with plain old soapy water. Azadirachtin is the isolated active ingredient in neem, and we are starting to see that out there.

Pyrethrin is my last stand for organic pesticides, but a word. Despite the fact that it is made from daisies, despite the fact that it breaks down VERY quickly into natural safe compounds , it was the number one source of accidental poisoning last year because everyone thinks "It's organic, and made from daisies...how could it hurt me?". How about "It's organic, and made form poppies...how can opium hurt me?" It is still a concentrated chemical, just a natural one, so be careful about exposure. But if you end up needing stronger stuff you could go here...

But have you considered ladybugs?

[url]https://www.gardeners.com/1500-Adult-Ladybugs/GardenPests_Insects,05-239RS,default,cp.html[/url]

A nice safe way to do the job...

HG

[Cassie_Gator]

HG,

When you say soapy water do you mean just plain dish soap and water?

[The Helpful Gardener]

Yes I do (assuming you use non fragranced, less additives stuff). Turn pot upside down, dunk in soapy water. Do not rinse. Rinse and examine next day. (Rinse, lather, repeat as necessary)

HG

[cynthia_h]

Careful: some dish-washing liquids are actually detergents and not soaps.

Detergents will burn the leaves of your plants; we had a sad thread about that last year.

Cynthia

[The Helpful Gardener]

Thanks Cynthia; I was driving at that but it needed clarification...

HG

[Wahrheit]

Careful: some dish-washing liquids are actually detergents and not soaps.

Detergents will burn the leaves of your plants; we had a sad thread about that last year.

Cynthia

...and even the mildest of them can burn the leaves of Rugosa roses.
Actually, Rugosa's seem to be adversely effected by everything but the most diluted sprays. I'm a BIG fan of ladybug control!

[Cassie_Gator]

I'm going to try ladybugs... Do you think I can get them in less than a 1500 bug bundle? I only have four bushes--antique roses--I think that maybe 100 would accomplish what I need them to.

And if I do ladybugs--should I stop Neeming?

Thanks a lot!

[cynthia_h]

The sources I've read on use of Neem (and we used it on our roses last year, and it looks like we'll need to again) recommend using it later in the day, after the bees/butterflies/other beneficials have most likely turned in for the night.

Neem will hurt them, so it's best to use it when it will cause the least possible damage to the bugs we WANT.

We had a discussion here at THG about that, too; I'll do a Search and see if I can find it.

It's the Sticky: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=925

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Wahrheit]

I'm going to try ladybugs... Do you think I can get them in less than a 1500 bug bundle? I only have four bushes--antique roses--I think that maybe 100 would accomplish what I need them to.

And if I do ladybugs--should I stop Neeming?

Thanks a lot!

I bought ladybugs (a.k.a. lady beetles, etc.) many years ago, and I don't remember the price or quantity, but as I recall were relatively inexpensive.
But here's the thing, where I live in the south (USA), they are naturally quite abundant providing you don't use chemicals to inadvertantly kill them off. In very early spring there are usually lots of aphids on my roses, but if patient, you'll see the multitude of beetle larvae emerging everywhere. At first the larvae are VERY tiny, but with their voracious appetite for aphids, they grow quite rapidly.

In case you don't know what the larvae look like, here's a link to some pictures:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dnnya/2536248877/

Biological control has proven to be very effective for me, but again, for optimum results, you have to refrain from using poisons, either natural or synthetic.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Yes Wahrheit. Spot on!

As a low level anti fungal (preventative more than curative) try milk at ten to one with water (no. it doesn't matter, use whole, skim; just not chocolate) sprayed on once a week or after rain. The Lactobacillus (bacteria that spoils milk) is very naturally occurring and will populate the leaves, where it's antifungal characteristics are quite helpful. And you won't harm your ladybugs; they will interpret the lactose as honeydew and stick around, hunting for the aphids that made the sugars...



HG

[Cassie_Gator]

You are all wonderful--I'll keep you updated on how they turn out. Wahrheit, how far south do you live? I'm in North Central Florida--so spring here, now, is more like summer...