Arrggh! Neighbor spraying Sevin without notice!

[applestar]

Chatting with my neighbor over the fence, she casually mentions that they spray a birch tree not far inside their property line for caterpillars.
I said "Oh, let me know when you're going to do it so I can protect my veggie garden from wind drift." (thinking it was a reasonable request) and she said "I think (my husband) did it already this weekend"
She went on to say "but I think Sevin's safe for vegetables."

Is it? (We're already eating salad greens from our garden -- luckily we had a heatwave over the weekend to early this week so I haven't been harvesting much...) I did a quick google and didn't get *anything* that raised red-flags. Does that mean it IS pretty safe, or what? I get suspicious when *nothing* comes up. I tried both Sevin and Cabaryl. Does anyone know a good source for more detailed info?

BTW, I also asked what kind of caterpillars because I think there's a butterfly that uses birches for food source, but she said they're tent caterpillars.

Edited I misspelled it -- it's carbaryl
This one was pretty easy to read/understand:
[url]https://www.checnet.org/HEALTHEHOUSE/chemicals/chemicals-detail2.asp?Main_ID=328[/url]
I'm sending the info to my neighbor

[cynthia_h]

Sevin is a brand name for carbaryl. See WikiPedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbaryl

for more specifics and for links. I also Googled "Sevin MSDS" and found more than one link that referred directly to carbaryl.

Dangerous stuff.

Cynthia H.
USDA Zone 9, Sunset Zone 17

[opabinia51]

Definately wash your veggies before eating them, we ingest enough toxins as it is. What the Sevin will do or rather has done, is kill both the pathogenic and beneficial biota both on your plants and in the soil. Who knows how much got onto the area and what the damage is though.

Try to educate your neighbour on organic alternatives like spraying with aerated compost tea, planting plants that will attract the caterillar predators and so on.


Here is a link to an MSDS for 1-Naphthyl Methylcarbamate which is the active ingredient in Sevin. Looks like pretty nasty stuff, I would advise your neighbour not to use it.


https://www.reefball.com/reefballcoalition/images/MSDS%20for%20Sevin.pdf


Note this health hazard for humans:

May be fatal if swallowed. Repeated overexposures may cause more severe cholinesterase
inhibition with more pronounced signs and symptoms. May lead to rapid onset of nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain
involuntary shaking, excess salivation, pinpoint pupils, blurred vision, profuse sweating, temporary paralysis, respiratory depression,
convulsions.

At the very least, your neighbour should be wearing proper safety equipment when using this stuff. I'm not sure if the MSDS say to wear a respirator but, if I were to use Sevin, I would definately wear a respirators, gum boots, and a rubber body covering.

[cheshirekat]

Ouch!

That's scary to me. One of the reasons I was so anxious to get rid of our lawn is that the hubby was too willing to use chemicals, plus the gas and fumes causing air pollution to maintain the status quo green lawn.

I've also spent a lot of time watching the neighbors. The amount of chemicals I see them using, or allowing their hired lawn help to use is really concerning to me. The first year we got rid of the lawn, I wanted to ask the neighbors for their tree leaves for my compost pile, so that was when I started watching them. I was convinced quite quickly that nothing that came out of their yards would ever touch any part of my yard.

The amount of chemicals used in the neighborhood makes me wonder if my yard has any chance of being organic. With wind drift, flies, bugs, and chemicals leeching into the water table, is there any hope?

I don't hesitate to mention to them that I am growing a lot of edibles and hope to keep my yard pesticide and chemical free, but it isn't having an impact. Even worse, the houses to the immediate north and left keep having new renters and owners and they always move in with the idea that the more chemicals the better. It's chemical warfare to combat the brown turf of the arid, high altitude of our desert climate. (How dumb is that? Lawns should be outlawed in our drought prone environment.) So I see a chemical deluge for the first year. I'm amazed I'm not riddled with infirmity, cancer and dysfunctional neurons.

[opabinia51]

You can let your neighbours know that the addition of sifted compost to the lawns will make them into a lush vibrant green. I used to have a sticky on organic lawncare up in the organic forum but, I don't think its there anymore.

That sounds like a pretty dismal predicament your in out there. I guess all you can do is educate your neighbours, keep up your organic gardening and hope for the best.

You can tell you neighbours that with all these poisons that they are using, they are selecting for resistant disease organisms and killing beneficial soil organisms that actually aid both their lawns and other plants. Not to mention degrading their own immune systems by ingesting all these harsh chemicals.

I won't even tell you the story about a friend of a friend of mine.... yikes!

[Charlie MV]

HMMMM anybody got any suggestions as to what I can do about all the nuclear waste the US has ever produced that is stored at the Savannah River Plant just 15 miles from my home?

I rarely use chemicals in the yard or garden because I've found most organic solutions work better. I'm battling crabgrass at the moment by pulling it up. I won't pay $25 to organically treat 200 square feet with what is basically a mixture of cooking flour. I do resent being price gouged by organic companies. As I said , I use mostly organic methods because of superior results but I would lose my mind if I tried to tell all my neighbors how to live. I do make suggestions but that's as far as I can go.

[buddy110]

I am battling Japanese beetles right now.. I have tried insecticidal soaps with no success. I have resorted to using sevin. I too am using more organic solutions but sometimes you just have to resort to those nasty chemicals.

[Tomatah-Luver]

I had a nasty reaction to just standing in my nextdoor neighbors yard--he was spraying liquid SEVIN for the Japanese Beetles. My tongue and mouth started swelling, and it never happened before! I really hate using chemicals, as I think none are really safe.

I took a class on chemicals in the garden, and one of the most important to remember is that chemical companies may have more than one chemical formula for a product. ALWAYS read the Ingredient Statement on the label to make sure that the strength amount of chemicals is actually what you want to use for the application. And chemical companies may (and do) change their formulas from year to year. And also be sure to check what chemicals are allowed for the state you live in…some states change these laws. If, like me, you live in a border state area, you buy your chemicals in one state and use them in another, you may find you get a different formula in one state versus the other.

Organic farming is best!

[gardentoad]

I have a neighbor across the street that told me that when they banned an insecticide some 10+ years ago her husband went out and bough up all he could so they could spray their fruit trees.
I asked her if she didn't think they banned it for a good reson when there's some pretty strong stuff around that isn't banned and she just shrugged and said "Oh no, this works better."

I'm pretty lucky that the people on each side of me don't garden and don't treat their lawns. There used to be a field behind us and when we moved in someone told me to wait pretty late to put out a veggie garden because the farmer would use a herbicide and it would all die if I planted it before he sprayed.
The first thing we did was put up a privacy fence around the backyard. Now the entire perimeter of our whole yard is small trees and bushes. It looks "overgrown" to some of the neighbors who are suprised to see the beautiful gardens that are on the inside of the yard that you have to come inside to enjoy.
If having "curb appeal" means putting up with toxic wind drift then I don't need curb appeal. The local wildlife also enjoy our borders.

[buddy110]

I am battling Japanese beetles right now.. I have tried insecticidal soaps with no success. I have resorted to using sevin. I too am using more organic solutions but sometimes you just have to resort to those nasty chemicals.

Next year, I'm going to buy traps and hopefully eliminate use of all chemicals. I have used much much less this year than in previous years.

As for "curb appeal" I really don't worry about that. I just hate seeing all my hard work go for naught. This year my garden supplier did find some organic stuff for beetles. Unfortunately it was too late by then. I'll try it next year.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Scary stuff here...

Carbaryls are nerve agents and can have pretty profound effects on mammals and be really destructive in lower pH water (like I have around here)

[url]https://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/carbaryl.htm[/url]

Really the better way to get rid of tent catepillars would be BT var. kurstaki, works great and only works on catepillars that turn into moths or butterflies (limiting secondary exposures). The new spinosad based pesticides would be another green way if they were feeding already...

Japanese beetles aqre best controlled in their larval (grub) stage with nematodes; apply at dusk or a cloudy rainy day midsummer not long after the beetles are laying. You will knock out next years crop, at least in your yard. I have only the one rose so I handpick a lot as welll...


HG

[David Taylor]

I tried BTK last year for the first time on my corn. I plant twelve corn plants every two weeks to give the family a summer and fall-long supply of fresh corn. I sprayed the first plants when I first got the product, then sprayed again two weeks later, following directions. I ended up spraying only three times. I think the first two sprayings broke the cycle, and the caterpillars were just not there for the last month of the season.

[The Helpful Gardener]

ANd THAT's the trick, David, simply breaking the cycle...

Don't know how many times clients call perturbed that they have seen an insect or grub when I have already treated and want me to come out and use "something stronger". I go out to find grubs already paralyzed by nematodes, or the bugs corpses still on a plant, as the reason for the call. We have gotten used to bugs practically bursting into flames and exploding from the horrid garbage we were using to date, and the natural methods aren't as dramatic and take more than a few minutes, and that sets some folks off; they want it gone NOW. BUt they have done nothing to interrupt the natural cycle and a few other things that will lead to more trouble later...

You, on the other hand, showed some patience, did the right thing and now you are going to reap long term benefit from better soil biologies and the presence of beneficial microbes and insects that will support your crops, both of which might well have been lost by a push-button mentality. Hats off, sir!

HG

[GardenLisa]

When we moved here, I made sure that all of the neighbours who's yards touch ours knew that I have allergy induced asthma. The worst thing for it? Garden chemicals! If I walk by a treated lawn (even the ones who say they're safe afterwards), my ankles break out in hives. It's disgusting. My hubby says I'm an indicator of environmental health, like bees. If I can't live there, no one should... lol

[applestar]

I'm glad you bumped this and reminded me. I just sent my neighbors an email asking them again to warn me in advance, along with all the links everyone posted here.

She takes care of her sister's kids during the day -- little ones that just started walking last fall. About a week ago, I heard her telling them that they can't play on the grass because they just "fertilized" the lawn I wonder if she even read what I'd sent them last year.... I wonder if they will this year? It doesn't sound very promising does it?

[The Helpful Gardener]

Send the letter. Shoot off a flare. Talk to sympathetic neighbors...

Hang in there...

HG

[Ana]

I used miracle grow once with nothing really happening. This year I'm using and organic fertilizer made of seaweed, the garden smells like fish afterward, but in no time the plants stand taller and stronger. My insecticides are wild birds and myself picking bugs, and some beer if I have snails, flowers do miracles attracting good bugs too. About lawn its mostly weeds so bees are having a blast

[Woolly]

Our family has a 1 1/2 acre market garden which is being on slotted by my surrounding neighbors. I ask them to warm me but they don't think that there is anything to worry about and all that we are getting is the SMELL ( I don't think they were listening in science class about particulates) I do not use chemicals only organic means to fertilize and get rid of pests. They don't think that the smell anyone can smell is harmful. I feel like finding some of the "stuff" and put it in some water and have them drink it because it is just what they are doing to my ground water and my garden that we work SO hard on so we can offer locally raised fresh and organic produce.

Along with everyone else, people here in Montana are so chemical happy.
I know that sounds strong about the water but I am SO sick of being poisoned year after year (I almost ended up int hospital from a reaction to thier spraying this Spring) just so the neighbors can admire their weed free pasture..........I know I know it's my soap box.

[JONA878]

Over here in the UK Sevin has been banned for some years. We used to use it a lot in Horticulture and agriculture and very effective it was.
It was a very effective chemical for thinning fruit down on heavy crop years.
It is though one of those chemicals that are very persistant and along with DDt was doing a lot of damage to the enviroment.

It was for a long time the active chemical used in shampoos that were designed to get rid of hair nits and lice.

Jona.

[Toil]

My grandparents live on the island of Montreal in Quebec. There, organic is the law. All residents are barred from using any synthetic pesticides. Not for lawns, ornamentals, not for houseplants. Period.

Wouldn't that be nice? Hello, police? My neighbor is trying to commit suicide and take me with him!

Here's another thought: the dog whisperer guy is changing my dogs by educating me. How about a neighbor whisperer show?

[The Helpful Gardener]

Toil, that is all do to the work of one woman, [url=https://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2009/09/who-is-june-irwin/]Dr. June Irwin[/url].

My good friend Paul Tukey tells her story in his new movie, [url=https://pfzmedia.com/]A Chemical Reaction[/url]

And toil you might want to [url=https://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/01/save-the-date-hartford-march-7/]save Mar. 7th[/url] to see it...

But don't count the chemical companies out yet. They will lie, cheat and yep,[url=https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/greenpage/environment/81382937.html]lawyer up[/url]for the privledge of poisoning you...

It'll be an even harder fight here. But the truth is the truth. Can't fight off the truth forever, chemical guys...


HG

[Toil]

I forgot to mention: all the yards on their block look great. Same deal at my uncles place. They claim to miss the chemicals and some smuggle them, but really it looks great.


Thanks for the heads up hg, I will look for a place that is screening the film. You think I'll have to go to NYC? I may just wait to order.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Did you look at the Mar. 7th link, toil?

Waddaya want, an ingraved invitation?

HG

[Toil]

Lol sorry I didn't realize I could just click on it.

Blame the iPhone? There I was thinking "why is he highlighting things in blue?", as if I had not seen my first hyperlink as a teenager.

(forehead slap)

[731greener101]

I grow organically and by looking at the neighbors yards there is more roundup used in their yards than should be permissible.I dislike weed eating as much as the next guy,but this is crazy.Luckily on one side the house is empty.I was hoping because cows inhabit behind me and on the other side that I would be somewhat poison safe.Last week I am cleaning the fence row border(does not even belong to me and I see the owner spraying everything in sight.Thank God the wind was blowing in he right direction to keep the poison away from me.Two days later I am on the back deck drinking coffee(6 in the A.M.)and I smell the poison in the air.I look for the source and the neighbor three doors down comes around the corner of his house wearing a spray backpack contraption and I swear it looked like he was shooting a stream of roundup twenty feet.So far no visible damage to my garden but I will wash all product before I eat it.Greener

[firstimegardener]

About a month ago, I started smelling something that smelled "sweet". I'd smelled it before, but couldn't place it in my mind. The next day, the weeds right on my property line were brown....so was part of MY tree from them just not being careful...they had used roundup. I was so very mad that I wanted to go over and give a piece of my mind...but I didn't

I don't really care what you use on your yard...it's your yard and although I might not agree with you putting poison on it, it is a free country and I can't stop you...
but keep your poison out of MY yard...and if they would have used vinegar (they don't want ANYTHING there) it would have at least NOT affected my plants!

[vermontkingdom]

Although I do not use pesticides myself I accept the fact that some people feel they need to. What bothers me this year is the constant advertising for the product Seven. I've heard a huge number of ads for it on the radio with the announcer telling us it kills over 100 detrimental insects. There is no mention of any downsides to its use. I'm sure some people buy and use the stuff without really considering what negative effects it may have on their immediate and larger communities.

[buddy110]

I am battling Japanese beetles right now.. I have tried insecticidal soaps with no success. I have resorted to using sevin. I too am using more organic solutions but sometimes you just have to resort to those nasty chemicals.

Next year, I'm going to buy traps and hopefully eliminate use of all chemicals. I have used much much less this year than in previous years.

As for "curb appeal" I really don't worry about that. I just hate seeing all my hard work go for naught. This year my garden supplier did find some organic stuff for beetles. Unfortunately it was too late by then. I'll try it next year.

Update

The last two years I have successfully whooped the beetle problem with neem oil and traps.. 100% organic!

[shadylane]

My thoughts on the use of lawn and garden chemicals...I've been ignorant for years about them.
I'm am so thankful that I am able to be taught and havn't been completely pronounced chemically brain dead.
I'ved used Sevin in the garden thinking as I was told, "it's safe". The company that produce and sell the theory of beautiful lawns, luscious gardens only have one interest, money.
The truth is out there, and I thank those involved in announcing it.

I

[OrganicGardener123]

I understand your concern. I have an organic garden and I would not be too happy if my next door neighbor were using chemicals to deal with caterpillars. I'm sure there must be a better way to deal caterpillars then using Seven.

There’s no question about the damage that aphids present and the best way to deal with them is [url=https://www.lacewingeggs.com/]Lacewing Eggs[/url]

[url=https://www.prayingmantisforsale.com/]Praying Mantises for the Garden[/url]

[triumphman]

We woke one morning to an awful toxic smell. Our lovely adjacent property owners (I refuse to classify them as neighbors) hired a contractor to spray some poisons on his lawn! Our house was unbearable! I called the police and hazardous materials hot line. They came, I escorted them around (I had to wear a resperator mask) . They finally concluded the smell was from the adjacent property! We had to open all our windows and put fans on to get the smell out! I wrote a letter to the lovely person next door and placed it in his mailbox! He never replied. Jerk! I guess its best we never met ! This has been the 4th owner in that house. Each on has caused some problem or other. Poisons, noise, cutting my trees, taking my rocks off my wall, rockets on my roof, dogs barking,trumpet practice on their back deck, psychotic autistic daughter crying constantly outdoors , etc... He has an ASTRO TURF lawn. No weeds. Ever! He cuts it every week, even in the rain! He is a lawn psycho! He even bought a $20 thousand dollar, professional mower to boot! He has no clue that those chemicals are going into his well water! He is poisoning everyone too! All the idiots who live behind me do the same! They are clueless! But their lawns are perfect! What they are ingesting is poison! They don't care! Now he is trying to sell his house in this bad market! Duh! I think he lost his job and the bank said get out! Yea!

[Gary350]

I don't like to put chemicals on my garden unless I have to.

I bought some Sevin dust last week, something is eating the NEW leaves on the Plum tree and something is eating all the NEW leaves on 1 of the flowers in the front yard. So far so good.

My grandparents used Sevin dust, my 90 yr old father used it and I sometimes use it. It contains chemicals I can not spell or pronounce. I almost never us it in my garden, if I do I wash the produce with plenty of water.

[gunsmokex]

We woke one morning to an awful toxic smell. Our lovely adjacent property owners (I refuse to classify them as neighbors) hired a contractor to spray some poisons on his lawn! Our house was unbearable! I called the police and hazardous materials hot line. They came, I escorted them around (I had to wear a resperator mask) . They finally concluded the smell was from the adjacent property! We had to open all our windows and put fans on to get the smell out! I wrote a letter to the lovely person next door and placed it in his mailbox! He never replied. Jerk! I guess its best we never met ! This has been the 4th owner in that house. Each on has caused some problem or other. Poisons, noise, cutting my trees, taking my rocks off my wall, rockets on my roof, dogs barking,trumpet practice on their back deck, psychotic autistic daughter crying constantly outdoors , etc... He has an ASTRO TURF lawn. No weeds. Ever! He cuts it every week, even in the rain! He is a lawn psycho! He even bought a $20 thousand dollar, professional mower to boot! He has no clue that those chemicals are going into his well water! He is poisoning everyone too! All the idiots who live behind me do the same! They are clueless! But their lawns are perfect! What they are ingesting is poison! They don't care! Now he is trying to sell his house in this bad market! Duh! I think he lost his job and the bank said get out! Yea!

Hmm your neighbor doesn't look like this guy does he?

[vegetablesteve]

yes, it's really difficult to persuade people that are used to chemicals to try it the natural way. I'm happy that my neighbours don't use any chemicals. I think if some neighbor would. I'd move.
The former place I lived, I also had beehives, we arrived in January and in april (we lived amongst farmers) one of the farmers started spraying, next day three of the four hives were dead. So, 3 months later we found another place and we moved.

greets,

[MB3]

[quotei]Carbaryl is often produced using methyl isocyanate (MIC) as an intermediary. A leak of MIC used in the production of carbaryl caused the Bhopal disaster, the largest industrial accident in history. This accident caused around 11,000 deaths and over 500,000 injuries.[/quote]

as my partner points out, this is worse than probably every meth lab explosion and meth-related chemical contamination EVER, COMBINED, and yet carbaryl is completely legal in the US, sold in droves.
I guess if Monsanto and Bayer wanted to sell meth as a trademarked pesticide, perhaps we could buy gallons of it at walmart.

[JONA878]

Thank goodness the wretched stuff is banned over this side of the pond. Any food tested as contaminated would bring the house down around a growers ears. It's such a persistent chemical that even small traces will remain detectable for some time in the plant and the soil.

[imafan26]

I haven't used sevin in years. I used to use it a lot. It was less problematic and did not smell nearly as bad as malathion. But, since I have decided to let nature take care of things. I actually have fewer problems. There are some plants that I do use chemicals on. They are ornamentals and in the front yard. Roses and hibiscus don't fend well for themselves. But I am trying to limit chemicals even there unless the problem is severe and I try to use less persistant solutions.

[applestar]

In case these links were not mentioned earlier:

Here's a couple articles about the Sevin:

https://www.dontspraycalifornia.org/carbarylog.htm

https://www.healthyworld.org/sevin.html

In the second one it mentions that as well as being harmful to humans, to the environment, to all the aquatic life in the rivers and streams (once it washes off your plants into the soil and water table), to all the beneficial insects that would otherwise be protecting your plants and pollinating the, the Sevin is also harmful to your plants.

[tomf]

To add to what MB3 said.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyl_isocyanate

I manage my land for my health and that of the wildlife on it, so this sort of thing is a NO NO!!!!!!!

[Gary350]

Neighbors can be a problem one day we came home from work to find our nice green garden was solid white. Tomatoes had just started getting ripe and all our nice red ripe tomatoes were covered with white paint. The neighbor sprayed the wooden fence around the yard the paint blew into our garden and everything was white. My wife was so mad she went off on the neighbor. Neighbor acted like we were crazy for planting a garden they said, " WHY would anyone grow a garden when you can buy vegetables at any grocery store." We picked all the vegetables and threw them at their house, cars, roof, back porch and into their swimming pool and they never complained about it.