Learning • Practicing to Cross Breed Tomato Varieties

[applestar]

[Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow less variegated] F4 pointed egg/heart

My poor seedlings. Between the mite attacks, which however was fortunately not as severe as last year thanks to the predatory mites, the stupid see-saw weather that shot up into the 90's then plunged too often into the lower 40's during the hardening off process when I couldn't drag them back inside, never-accurate weather forecasts, and any number of other excuses, they look quite pitiful as they are going in the ground ...so much later than normal.

I have 6 of them planted here. Their variegation have faded (are hard to discern) due to the cold-stress yellowing plus some sunburn. I don't know if any of them are dwarf/short -- I think I lost those last year so haven't carried them forward. (will have to try the mass seed sowing again next year from previous generation seeds).



Hopefully, they will recover and show us what they got. I planted some of the the overgrown peas next to them to hopefully help nurse them along.

[applestar]

{Maglia Rosa x (Coyote+Faelan's First Snow lv)} F3 -- several segregates:




I'm bummed not to see any variegation. I'm guessing these were from the Coyote pollinated seeds, though it might help if I did several generations of mass sowing starting with the F1 seeds.

[applestar]

These are some of my Maglia Rosa x (Coyote and Faelan's First Snow) F3 segregates. Early to mature.
So excited to see the different shapes in the baby fruits, but I must remember that the fruit characteristics were those of the F2 and what these will look like --and taste like-- still remains to be seen....

[applestar]

I am excited to see ALL THESE fruit shapes in the MRxCF F3 segregates. A little surprise, too, which I'm not sure how to interpret -- I will followup about that later. (Click for enlarged, zoomable view)

[applestar]

I emasculated a few blossoms this morning. I meant to only practice, but it was just like riding a bicycle.

I did bruise the stigma of the very first one by accidentally pinching with the forceps, and had to remember the trick of holding the sepal close to the base to keep the flowerbud steady.


Marz Pulcent, Maskotka, WSxFFS F4, MRxCF F3 white cherry, Sgt. Pepper's.

I got impatient with one of the tiny MRxCF buds and accidentally pulled the stigma off. But after doing all the little flowers, Sgt. Pepper's huge flowerbuds were a breeze.

[applestar]

I'm going to post an update after the cross-pollinated flowers start to show fruit development. Anyway, here's another one -- this one is a megabloom of Dwarf Blazing Beauty:

[applestar]

This one came from some abandoned fruits from last year. I had them in a container to process, they started to "ferment" on their own... past prime and fruitflies got thick and ugly in there, and I didn't want to deal with them at the time so I pushed the container out the back door. It eventually got shuffled under the patio table -- frozen and forgotten...all winter.

When I discovered them in spring, they looked ...fine. So I recovered some of the seeds and started them.
So glad I did too because I'm getting such varieties in shapes from different plants, and this one is intriguing me. These are larger than grapes or even elongated grapes. Almost but not quite as big as Maglia Rosa I think ...yet... but those stripes must be from Maglia Rosa.

[applestar]

WS.FFS F4 heart 8.16.16 ChLn


The plant on the left has the most extremely variegated stems. It is very short and is looking like a determinate.
I hope it will get a little bigger. The gorgeous white splashed leaf to the right of it belongs to the plant loaded with all these green fruits.

[applestar]

M.CF.F3
16-1F.P3
elongated/pt pink grape cherry
Sept'16

This one deserves a photo by itself. It's very strange. I can't decide it's super wispy or something is wrong with it. I gave it a Spiral stake all to itself, but it is only this tall. It's from a different elongated/pt pink grape cherry, not one of the abandoned fruits.




--- edited to add ---

The color of this plant seems a bit blue-ish to me. I noticed similar effect on on of the WS.FFS F4, like it was organizing colors so yellow color is more in the variegation, making the rest of the leaf looking a bit blue-ish. Does it seem like the near-left leaf in this photo has the slightest variegation? Maybe there was a bee cross happening last year.

[applestar]

We had a heat wave and many other tomatoes ended up dropping a lot of their blossoms without setting. Ha. Really gotta check the weather before attempting to make crosses.

[applestar]

...so it turns out closer examination revealed that those round cherry fruits I have been assuming was on a plant from a cherry segregate are actually growing on one of last year's white grape segregate – "5.22 M.CF.F3.P1 white grape Jul'16" – that was grown in a PT (paper tube). The other plant on the same spiralstake is also from white grape as expected.



The harvest photo shows the lemon yellow at ripe fruits with translucent skin which will probably be clear epi when scraped -- defined as "white" in tomato color parlance. (Many so called "yellow" tomatoes ripen to yellow-orange color, such is the way of tomatoes.).

Only plant from a white cherry segregate is sharing spiralstake with a WSxFFS F4. That's the one that had the multi-truss... (I need to check and see what that truss is doing now).


And in an appropriate mirror show of reversal, a segregate growing from a small cherry -- "M.CF.F3 16-1F.P2 small pink cherry Sept'16" -- is growing grape shaped fruits this year:


...hopefully it will still be pink.


I'm wondering if, at this point, can I just assume pollen donor for these particular segregates was Coyote? --- I.e. These are Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3?

[applestar]

Having harvested these today, I tasted the small two lowest truss "MR.C F3-1 white cherry" fruits and two of the larger next truss fruits previously harvested. Oooh they were YUM-MEE! The gel was full flavored -- tangy sweet front-end, full-bodied middle umami, and lingering flavor that was not acidic but memorable, and the flesh and the very thin, edible skin were very sweet and kind of fruity.

(Excuseme) I couldn't bear to chew up and swallow the seeds. I rolled them on my tongue to sort out the flavors, then spat them out -- they will be saved. (I do thoroughly wash the seeds when saving )

[applestar]

Harvested the first two fruits from the Whippersnapper x Faelan's First Snow F4. It is continuing to exhibit the early-maturing Whippersnapper trait. I only grew the seeds from a heart-shaped segregate, and these fruits have very pointy, adorable heart-shape.

I decided to name this segregate WS.FFS F4 "Jack Frost's Early Love" for the frosty white splashes of variegation in the seedling and early cooler weather growths and the early-maturing, pink heart-shaped fruits. I'm looking for a sweet front-end flavor profile along with the full flavor middle umami and lingering tangy end note that I like, and will continue to select for strong leaf variegation.

This particular plant seems to be shorter than the one with indeterminate growths behind it, which would be a plus especially if I could grow it in the Winter Indoor Tomato line-up -- it may be a determinate as well.

[applestar]

Harvested these 2 white cherries and a white grape. I assumed they were from the same Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3 segregates as before, but when I was taking these photos, I noticed that one of the cherries has a slight pink/red blush that swirls from the blossom end up. I have to trace the vines and verify to morrow, but I'm tentatively designating this one MR.C F3-3.

The other, larger cherries that were harvested before seem to have developed this swirl as well. So the small white cherry (MR.C F3-1) and the white cherry blush are probably separate.



I will also have to go back and verify the grape since it is completely round-bottomed and has no trace of a point. The point could be environmental but it might be from another plant since there are others with similar ovoid-grape shaped fruits.

[applestar]

One more from my cross that really made me happy today

This is the plant that was attacked by the stalk borer. I was afraid it was going to die without getting the chance to ripen the super cool-looking elongated, pointed, striped fruits ... but look at it now -- it has started to blush!



I had a name picked out for this Maglia Rosa x (Coyot or Faelan's First Snow) F3 Abandoned Fruit segregate, but now I'm thinking this might be a determinate, which might make the name not fit -- I was trying to bag floral trusses today, and I can't find any that are not already setting fruits, and I couldn't find any growing shoots except for a very tiny sucker that might be starting to grow.

I left it alone in hopes that it WILL grow another shoot and floral trusses for me to bag....

Is there any chance THIS particular segregate might have been from Faelan's First Snow as the pollen donor?

[applestar]

Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3

MR.C F3-A1

I'll REALLY excited about this segregate (from the abandoned elongated pink grape fruits) with irregularly shaped, striped, elongated pointy fruits.

I've decided to call this one "Wild Rosa"-- partly because of the wild-type Coyote father and to contrast with "Maglia Rosa" that to me sounds like a quiet obedient girl. At first I was disappointed to see that this one looks like a Determinate, but may be "here today, gone tomorrow" kind of vibe would work.

Can you see how sort of iridescent and pearly it looks? I took so many pictures but it was really hard to capture. (I'll only make you suffer through four ...well 4th is a collage





Maybe you can see the difference in this group shot, next to the familiar tomato red Maskotka.





MR.C F3-A2

Her first sibling to blush and almost ripen turned out to be a smallish cherry -- I think bigger than typical Coyote, and very yellow but need to wait for the scraped epi -- it should be clear though. That first fruit looks ripe, but failed the "give to the touch" test so I left it on the truss for today.

[applestar]

I think I changed my mind about the name almost as soon as I posted. I have another name I had reserved for a different segregate, pending its 1st fruit ripening, but I might give that name to this one.... I guess I'd better sleep on the idea before posting again....

[applestar]

Wahhh -- I'm stuck.

I cut open the first two fruits of MR.C F3-A1 I harvested on 7/28 -- segregate that I was thinking of calling "Wild Rosa" but changed my mind and was considering giving it another name.



It turns out to have yellow epi. At F3 and seeds from pink clear epi elongated cherry F2 fruit ... Does that rule out Coyote as the pollen donor?

It has a lovely salty-sweet -- not sugary sweet but no initial acid, mild tomato-y sweetness -- at the front end, then full of umami flavor from the gel that expands in the mouth. Just when you think you are not getting any acid tang, there it is, a lingering tingling sensation that lasts and leaves your mouth watering. I love it.


...I need a little input from those of you who are following this thread.
The special name I had on reserve for another segregate is based on "Eos Rhododactylos" which means "Rosie-fingered Dawn"-- I think the swirly, pearly, metallic colors on this segregate really do remind me of particularly gorgeous sunrises.

I thought about calling it "Eos" but there are commercial cosmetics and some other companies using that name so I don't want to use "Eos" by itself, as cool as that is in its own way -- I.e. short one-word name.

Do you think I should name MR.C F3-A1 segregate ---
- "Wild Rosa" -- as originally described
- "Eos Rhododactylos"
- "Rosie-fingered Dawn"

...not even considering "Dawn" -- that is etched in my mind associated with -- "dish 'soap', likely detergent"

Please tell me which you think is the best name for this segregate in your opinion and your reason why.

[applestar]

MR.C F3-A1 will be "Wild Rosa".

Here is a sister segregate to Wild Rosa which I am designating (MR.C F3-A3) and calling it "Molten Sky".
Have you ever seen a photo of sunrise or sunset when the sky looks like it's on fire -- red with golden streaks and swirls?

"Molten Sky" looks like this at peak ripeness:


It is sweeter than Wild Rosa. WIld Rosa at peak ripeness has an in-your-face tomato flavor and building salty umami and lingering tangy acid. But Molten Sky starts with sweet flavor at the front end and building fresh fruity flavor with no detectable acidity. I had swallowed and concluded that there isn't going to be the lingering acid that I like, then BAM! It hits you with a wash of really sharp sensation that tingles your taste buds.

My official tomato taster DD prefers Wild Rosa even though she usually likes sweet tomatoes.

Molten Sky fruit shape is mostly even, largish elongated cherry, whereas Wild Rosa is all over the place, skinny neck, even curved like an eggplant, small to large, and sometimes straight elongated cherry. I think they might both exhibit pointed blossom end when temperatures are cooler, although Molten Sky seems to tend to be rounded and Wild Rosa tends to be pointed.




Here's another difference between the two --

I also decided to scrape some more Molten Sky skin and compare with Wild Rosa skin to compare their epi because I wanted to see if they were different...
--- THEY ARE!

After scraping until they seemed to have disappeared on my cutting board -- The pink-tinted skin are from Wild Rosa and yellow-tinted skin are from Molten Sky. Now are they clear or yellow epi?

[applestar]

One of my goals this season was to find dwarf/short segregate in the Maglia Rosa x Coyote F3 line so they can be grown in containers like Maglia Rosa. I think these two might be what ai am looking for. At first l was disappointed that they seemed to be both white grape shape, but it looks like one is more elongated than the other with potential to become larger fruited. Hopefully these will have similar flavor profile as the others. So far they have not disappointed.

[applestar]

[applestar]

I might be jumping the gun here, but... I have another volunteer that I let grow on a whim. Today, I noticed these floral/fruit trusses -- I don't know if they are within the definition of multifloral, but they really look like they are trying to be. I remember a couple of years ago ... maybe 2014 or 15? When I grew the F1's here, yellow epi fruited segregate so I thought was Maglia Rosa x (Zluta Kytice+Matt's Wild Cherry) F1 was throwing double trusses up and down the vine. Maybe this one grew from an unearthed seed from those? (FYI -- Zluta Kytice is a multifloral yellow cherry) Can't wait for first fruit to ripen!


...top-right photo is the first truss lower down the vine.

(Oh dang it! I forgot to correct the date stamp! It's 9/10 isn't it?)

[applestar]

For some reason, I forgot to post this in the Whippersnapper x Faelan’s First Snow F4 updates last July —

From my July 13, 2017 garden notes:

WS.FFS F4 heart 8.16.16 ChLn


The plant on the left has the most extremely variegated stems. It is very short and is looking like a determinate.
I hope it will get a little bigger. The gorgeous white splashed leaf to the right of it belongs to the plant loaded with all these green fruits.

**When bagged and saved,
*The working name of the F5 seeds for plant on the left will be "Shimofuri" -- Continue to select for extravagantly variegated stems, short for cosseted container culture. Keep improving for best full flavor notes with umami.

Ref. Wagyu: Your guide to Japan's marbled, flavorful beef - CNN | CNN Travel
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/cnngo ... index.html

What is Wagyu beef?
...
Unlike cattle in other countries, which are often bred for a range of traits, Wagyu were and are raised with one goal in mind: supreme flavor.
"Genetics is everything," says Jason Morgan, owner of The Meat Guy, a Nagoya-based meat importing business.
...
Wagyu's striking characteristic is its pervasive marbling.

-- This marbling is called "shimofuri"

...Directly translated “shimofuri” means “frost falling”

I ended up saving from two different plants with similarly strongly variegated stems. However, Shimofuri #1 F4 in the quoted note above had the most variegation but the fruits had a mild front end flavor (which is code for bland according to my tastebuds) and lacked sweet flavor, whereas Shimofuri #2 F4 was “sweet with late acid burn”

Here are the best of this spring’s Shimofuri #1 F5 seedlings to date:







...interestingly, two of the seedlings are starting to grow suckers/side shoots already while the others show no sign. I’m wondering if this means these two are exhibiting determinate Whippersnapper characteristics, which could be interesting because Whippersnapper is a good basket variety.




Now to compare with Shimofuri #2 F5 because to me, these look darker green with some dark veins... possibly antho? Not as interesting variegation so far, but intriguing nevertheless.... I have to search my notes because I remember noting that at least one of the WSxFFS F4 looked sort of blue-green — definitely different shade of green than others.




...and here is a general view with most of both Shimofuri #1 F5 and Shimofuri #2 F5

[applestar]

My variegated cross segregate Shimofuri F5 seedlings are starting to develope the white-striped stems and leaf veins for which they were named and are being selected to stabilize



The intensity of variegation and color range on the leaves are excellent.

I’m keeping an eye on the pinkish leaf veins that have shown up on some, as well as some of the newer leaves that are losing defined color edges and are looking speckled.

I don’t know — is this sign of deteriorating variegation due to heat? Is this just a new type of variegated expression?




Whatever — They need to be planted!


...I was taking pictures in the rain, and some trick of light changed the white balance and resulted in this gorgeousness



...I suspect this is one of Shimofuri #2 F5’s which are darker shade of green ... almost Blue-green. There’s another one in the collage.

[applestar]

Shimofuri #1 F5. Plants that caught my eye —
(click on the picture to zoom in for a closer look )








...I have to remember to tag these plants to bag and save seeds specifically since later on, they may not have as spectacular variegation and these lovelies may end up getting cut off due to septoria or early blight fungal issues.

...last year, I had variegated stem envy...then found these in my own crosses. This year, I have variegated calyx envy. I’m hopeful, but am wondering if that particular trait might come from the Variegated/Splash of Cream lineage, since I HAVE seen photos of that variety with white/variegated calyces. As far as I know, my cross with only Faelan’s First Snow supplying the variegation genes/traits doesn’t have the other variety in its ancestry.

[applestar]

I *think* I’m seeing Striped/variegated calyx on the blossom upper left —

[applestar]

This is Shimofuri#1-2 F5 — I’m in love!

A close-up —


Variegated/striped calyces, too —


Gorgeous colors!

(Bottom-right — Shimofuri#1-1 F5 is also showing some of the wild colors.)

[applestar]

Best striped/variegated fruit stems and calyces on some of the Shimofuri F5 fruits —



Close up of my favorite fruit truss so far with the nearest leaf —

[applestar]

First Shimofuri #1 F5 harvested!
- Pink
- Cocktail sized rounded “heart” although this one is blunted and has a barely discernible point
- I forgot to measure and weigh it — will add later



This one is from a previously numbered plant which I will number as #1-5 — I want to save seeds and start them right away as this winter’s first (and possibly only) Winter Tomato Candidate. Although it did not grow as spectacularly variegated leaves, you can see it has very nicely striped/variegated main stem and even has some white in the calyces. In addition, this is the one that has been showing the determinate bunched fruiting trusses on each branch, with some tendency to sweep down/sprawl, which may make it grow well in a a hanging basket. Great potential and looking forward to seeing what it does in the next generation.

[applestar]

Jack Frost’s Early Love F5 is a segregate of same Whippersnapper x Faelan’s First Snow cross as Shimofuri #1 and #2 F5. I saved the lines separately because last year, all of JFEL F4 fruits had a point and looked like hearts and Shimofuri F4 had been separated out because they had intense variegation and striped stems that weren’t there on JFEL F4

But in this generation, Plant #2 of Jack Frost’s Early Love has pretty significantly variegated stems and even the calyces. The one I harvested had some nice striping on one side of the calyx, but look at that still-green one. Oooh!



... I wonder if in this case, do I rename the F6 seeds from these fruits to join the Shimofuri segregates, or do I keep this as special line along the JFEL segregate?

[applestar]

I’m excited by this new development in the Molten Sky line. At least two of the F4 plants are producing what looks like clear yellow with gold streaks instead of red with gold streaks. The yellow version appears to be slightly earlier, too. I only have one good Molten Sky F4 fruit harvested so far. These red elongated fruits which I thought are Molten Sky are not showing any/significant striping/streaks....

— you can see the difference in the color of Molten Sky variant F4 when compared to other white and yellow tomatoes here. I’m naming the variant Molten Sun F4


— bottom-right fruit trusses are Afternoon Rosé F4

[applestar]

More Molten Sun F4 —



...also
- another Molten Sky F4 variant with no gold streaks
- Ladyfingers F4
- Coyote Rosa Bébé F4

[applestar]

- Molten Sky F4 — still green with stripes evident
- Molten Sky F4 - unstriped variant
- Molten Sun F4
- Molten Sun F4 with blossom end blush!
- Ladyfingers F4
- Afternoon Rosé F4

[wisconsindead]

So cool applestar. What is your favorite variety that you have bred? This looks like fun.

[digitS']

AppleStar,

. these are ..

. Beautiful!

Steve

[applestar]

Bumping this thread for anyone who wants to review how to collect tomato blossom pollen and hand pollinate one or more prepared blossoms to try cross breeding.

Note that you need to do this when environmental conditions are ideal and other tomato blossoms are setting fruit.

— In my garden, this week is OUT because we’re experiencing a sudden heatwave with temps in the 90’s, Also it gets too hot by mid-morning when the new tomato blossoms open -and you can differentiate good blossoms to emasculate- to stand in the sun futzing with tiny blossoms and minuscule delicate floral petals and anther cones.

[TomatoNut95]

Why the thanks? Ok, quick question- I was just checking my 'tomato jungle'. My Micro Tom has an unopened blossom on it, which I thhhiinkkkk...might be open tomorrow morning. My Black Beauty has unopened blossoms as well. I might attempt to cross. Can I use the pollen off one Black Beauty blossom, or should I use a few? And if the little fruit on the Micro Tom shows black shoulders, that should mean the cross took effect, correct? I will try to use my phone to collect the pollen, and dip the freshly opened Micro Tom blossom stigma into the pollen.

[applestar]

Nope. That won’t work.

You have to do a micro-surgery on the tomato blossom that will be the mother/female recipient by removing the anther cone while the blossom is still green with a hint of white in the bud. This involves carefully peeling and removing most of the still green/white flower petals* and then removing the anther cone (the cone separates into individual segments/sections. You will see that the anthercone is already yellow on the reason for this is that by the time the petals open, the anther cone is already producing pollen and dropping them on the same blossom’s stigma. This is how the tomato pollinates itself.

You need to remove the anther cone (called “emasculating” — hey, I didn’t name the procedure ) before that happens. Once the petals and anthercone are removed, the insects generally have no interest in the bare nekkid stigma (or so they say). Mark the emasculated blossoms. ** It’s important to remove any other potentially open blossoms in it’s vicinity so no stray pollen will be wind-carried to the stigma.

The pollen from the donor male blossom(s) should be collected approximately 12 and 18 hrs afterwards assuming you judged correctly — and applied while still fresh (directly) to the stigma which should then be bagged to prevent accidental exposure to any other pollen, and marked with the specific cross (female variety name x make variety name F1 — date {and time} of pollination if you wish)

* Remove half of the calyx petals when before emasculating and use the calyx and some of the petals to hold onto, then remove all of the petals and calyx when done. The lack of the calyx also makes it obvious for pollinating as well as identifying the fruit — unless the calyx becomes diseased and shrivel up by the time the fruit is ripe.

[TomatoNut95]

Hmm. I think I see why hybrid tomato seed is so expensive...crossbreeding sounds too hard to do! I wish you had some pictures for me to go by; I'm the type who likes pictures with their instructions. I learn quicker that way.....because I am dumb. Ok, to perform this 'surgery' on the itty bitty unopened female blossom to remove the itty bitty anther cone, what kind of itty bitty tool can I use?

[applestar]

I think you still haven’t read the this Learning to... thread? Ask me questions over there if not answered.