So I have a new puppy, about five months old. Had it for a month. He's about half pug, that we know for sure. It is said he's part mini-schnauzer and some kind of terrier that I can't remember right now. He looks like a puggle. He acts like a pug, including his difficulty coping with heat, need to be near humans, comfort in laps and ability to be around kids etc.
My question is, we're crating him in the room with us at night. He won't ever wake us, which is great. So if we sleep until 9 he'll stay quiet and wait. The problem is that in the morning if he hears us stir he starts doing his pug whine and pug yodel thing, to be let out.
That's a ding on my quality of life. So what I want to do is crate him in the basement, which is cooler in the summer (better for him). That way we are free to get up in the morning for water and not be fearful that rest time is over because Nickleby decides it's time for the family to wake up. I'm thinking that if we're going to train him to crate up in the basement, now's the time to train him.
What you think?
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Question for the Dog Lovers
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Charlie MV
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Small dog, small bladder. Our lab could hold it a long time. Schnauzer did the puppy gotta pee whine and dance much sooner. We're an early-late couple. I stay up late and my wife gets up early. Worked well for dogs.
Dog door and fenced area?
I would have to vote no on putting a people dog in the basement. You sleep in the basement. You can't hear him from the bedroom.
Dog door and fenced area?
I would have to vote no on putting a people dog in the basement. You sleep in the basement. You can't hear him from the bedroom.
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DoubleDogFarm
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Charlie that's too funny. I was thinking the same thing before I got to your post.I would have to vote no on putting a people dog in the basement. You sleep in the basement. You can't hear him from the bedroom
Sorry Roger, I don't think you are dog people. Why have something that is annoying to you. Try goldfish.
Eric
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The tail doesn't wag the dog. WE don't have to conform to him for everyone to get along.
Are you seriously suggesting that dog owners have to cave in to a dog's whim? Clearly that's nonsense and results in the kind of spoiled dog that annoys other people, right?
Frankly, people who spoil their dogs raise annoying dogs. The kind of people whose dogs run off leash in public spaces where kids are, the kind who jump on people, badly behaved dogs. Those aren't dog people. Those are people who love their dogs and are spoiling them. I'm not one of those.
We're taking him to obedience school and molding his behavior so he can get along in OUR world, the human world. As part of that, because he's not yet even five months old, there is still a window to train him to crate up in the basement. Whatever he's used to can be unlearned. We're training him to do the leave it thing and he's a really great dog, takes to the training pretty well.
Are you seriously suggesting that dog owners have to cave in to a dog's whim? Clearly that's nonsense and results in the kind of spoiled dog that annoys other people, right?
Frankly, people who spoil their dogs raise annoying dogs. The kind of people whose dogs run off leash in public spaces where kids are, the kind who jump on people, badly behaved dogs. Those aren't dog people. Those are people who love their dogs and are spoiling them. I'm not one of those.
We're taking him to obedience school and molding his behavior so he can get along in OUR world, the human world. As part of that, because he's not yet even five months old, there is still a window to train him to crate up in the basement. Whatever he's used to can be unlearned. We're training him to do the leave it thing and he's a really great dog, takes to the training pretty well.
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I didn't reply right away because I'm a "wannabe" dog owner and haven't been able to include dogs in the household for over twenty years, but FWIW --
I'm not sure you want to crate train him to stay in the basement because
1) there may be healthy environment issues
2) he would be so far from the family -- emotionally may not be satisfying for people as well as the dog
3) he won't feel as much as part of the household -- or "pack" though I wont stress that word -- and that may introduce other problems
It seems like here is another instance where you would want to train the dog to obey rather than using physical separation as a tool... so that he would grow up to be a better dog. I think what might be effective is to train him to respond to a chosen command to "be quiet". I believe it would be better to train him outside of the crate because while in the crate, anything you do will be just another way to give him attention, which is what he wants. You also want the crate to be his "safe place" not where he gets yelled at or gets put in for punishment.
Once he learns to stop whining and otherwise making noise/fuss -- scratching, etc. -- on command (my brother uses "settle" -- his dogs are expected to find an out of the way place to lay down... Under the table, on their mats/dog beds, along the wall, etc.) then you can move on to using the command while he is in the crate but for other than the morning stimulus, THEN in the morning when he's fussing and you use the command, he should be able to make the connection.
Also, it seems like a valid point that once he wakes up he might need to "go" though. Can he be let out and made to go then put back in the crate to settle down? You don't want him to have accidents that becomes a norm and lose his house training.
About my brother and his dogs -- I always secretly chuckle because he uses "Miss ___" when they are misbehaving and need to know he is serious. Apparently that is the way they were trained to pay attention and focus.
I'm not sure you want to crate train him to stay in the basement because
1) there may be healthy environment issues
2) he would be so far from the family -- emotionally may not be satisfying for people as well as the dog
3) he won't feel as much as part of the household -- or "pack" though I wont stress that word -- and that may introduce other problems
It seems like here is another instance where you would want to train the dog to obey rather than using physical separation as a tool... so that he would grow up to be a better dog. I think what might be effective is to train him to respond to a chosen command to "be quiet". I believe it would be better to train him outside of the crate because while in the crate, anything you do will be just another way to give him attention, which is what he wants. You also want the crate to be his "safe place" not where he gets yelled at or gets put in for punishment.
Once he learns to stop whining and otherwise making noise/fuss -- scratching, etc. -- on command (my brother uses "settle" -- his dogs are expected to find an out of the way place to lay down... Under the table, on their mats/dog beds, along the wall, etc.) then you can move on to using the command while he is in the crate but for other than the morning stimulus, THEN in the morning when he's fussing and you use the command, he should be able to make the connection.
Also, it seems like a valid point that once he wakes up he might need to "go" though. Can he be let out and made to go then put back in the crate to settle down? You don't want him to have accidents that becomes a norm and lose his house training.
About my brother and his dogs -- I always secretly chuckle because he uses "Miss ___" when they are misbehaving and need to know he is serious. Apparently that is the way they were trained to pay attention and focus.
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DoubleDogFarm
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Leads to more questions
Where will the pup be when everyone is at work?
Where will the pup be when you have guest over?
Where will the pup be when you go on vacation / business trip?
You don't have to tell me and it's none of my business, but I hope it was in the decision process. Dogs are a 10 year or so commitment.
Eric
Where will the pup be when everyone is at work?
Where will the pup be when you have guest over?
Where will the pup be when you go on vacation / business trip?
You don't have to tell me and it's none of my business, but I hope it was in the decision process. Dogs are a 10 year or so commitment.
Eric
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Apple, you have a point about the training. He's a budding Zen master when it comes to the Leave It command. We put a treat or bowl of food on the floor and he waits until we say it's ok to eat it. We've seen other dogs who are really good with the Leave It command and that's what we're working toward. He just graduated his second level obedience school and when the third level opens up we're enrolling him in that. I'm a firm believer in training the dog. No jumping on people, no feeding people food to the dog (for the dog's health), etc.
Where will the pup be when everyone is at work?
We have all those points figured out and in hand. We wouldn't have adopted this guy if we hadn't taken the time to think it through. I've seen the mistakes my father, two brothers and family friends made with their dogs. We're quite conscious of the responsibilities and challenges and have thought this through, read it through and discussed it through. We're very methodical and responsible people. We planned this adoption for THREE years. We moved to the home we are in today, from California to Massachusetts, because this home was dog friendly. We house hunted for a year for this house and chose it because it was dog friendly, a full year before we even adopted. Adopting this dog was not a casual decision. It was taken with the greatest care and thought.
Now we're at this fork in the road and I realize that the direction we take today is where it's going to be for the life of this dog. Sleep with us or in the living room?
In the morning, after seeing off our daughter to camp/school/whatever, we take him for a 45 minute walk through the forest and lake that lies across the road from us. He's allowed off leash and he runs within sight, sometimes jumping into the lake for a swim. He has made friends with some of the local dogs that also get walked around the same time. When we get home he's dead-tired and goes to sleep on the bed for two or three hours. He's happy to hang out around the house or on the bed while we work at home. He has plenty of toys and gets along with the two cats.
Where will the pup be when you have guest over?
He is friendly with guests. We took him camping last week and at several times he was surrounded by a dozen kids who were smitten by him. He was excellent with the children and other dogs. He slept in the tent with us, in a crate. He enjoys his crate and enjoys sleeping through the night without interruption.
Where will the pup be when you go on vacation / business trip?
Camp Grandma if need be. She has dog experience. That said, he'll only be away from us for a week this summer. The rest of the time he's with us.
The issue isn't that he's keeping us awake. He's amazingly patient about waiting for us to wake up first. It's just because we're awake it doesn't mean we're ready to get up. So any ideas for getting over that bump in the road are appreciated.
We're considering making the living room his sleep area, which is where the cats sleep. He feels comfortable when they're around and they tend to keep him company when he's sleeping in the crate.
Where will the pup be when everyone is at work?
We have all those points figured out and in hand. We wouldn't have adopted this guy if we hadn't taken the time to think it through. I've seen the mistakes my father, two brothers and family friends made with their dogs. We're quite conscious of the responsibilities and challenges and have thought this through, read it through and discussed it through. We're very methodical and responsible people. We planned this adoption for THREE years. We moved to the home we are in today, from California to Massachusetts, because this home was dog friendly. We house hunted for a year for this house and chose it because it was dog friendly, a full year before we even adopted. Adopting this dog was not a casual decision. It was taken with the greatest care and thought.
Now we're at this fork in the road and I realize that the direction we take today is where it's going to be for the life of this dog. Sleep with us or in the living room?
In the morning, after seeing off our daughter to camp/school/whatever, we take him for a 45 minute walk through the forest and lake that lies across the road from us. He's allowed off leash and he runs within sight, sometimes jumping into the lake for a swim. He has made friends with some of the local dogs that also get walked around the same time. When we get home he's dead-tired and goes to sleep on the bed for two or three hours. He's happy to hang out around the house or on the bed while we work at home. He has plenty of toys and gets along with the two cats.
Where will the pup be when you have guest over?
He is friendly with guests. We took him camping last week and at several times he was surrounded by a dozen kids who were smitten by him. He was excellent with the children and other dogs. He slept in the tent with us, in a crate. He enjoys his crate and enjoys sleeping through the night without interruption.
Where will the pup be when you go on vacation / business trip?
Camp Grandma if need be. She has dog experience. That said, he'll only be away from us for a week this summer. The rest of the time he's with us.
The issue isn't that he's keeping us awake. He's amazingly patient about waiting for us to wake up first. It's just because we're awake it doesn't mean we're ready to get up. So any ideas for getting over that bump in the road are appreciated.
We're considering making the living room his sleep area, which is where the cats sleep. He feels comfortable when they're around and they tend to keep him company when he's sleeping in the crate.
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Charlie MV
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It sounds like you are saying that the biggest issue is that the dog waits until he hears you stir before he lets you know he needs to go out. Again, small dog, small bladder.
We trained ours to leave food alone until we said it was okay. Trained them to understand stay, sit, heel, be quiet all by hand command. They weren't spoiled nor did they run away off the leash. Proper training involves understanding what your dog is bred to do and allowing it to do that.
Allowing a dog to relieve it's bladder isn't spoiling it nor is that allowing it to control you. Needing to pee isn't a whim. Waiting for you to stir before he whines is considerate.
We trained ours to leave food alone until we said it was okay. Trained them to understand stay, sit, heel, be quiet all by hand command. They weren't spoiled nor did they run away off the leash. Proper training involves understanding what your dog is bred to do and allowing it to do that.
Allowing a dog to relieve it's bladder isn't spoiling it nor is that allowing it to control you. Needing to pee isn't a whim. Waiting for you to stir before he whines is considerate.
Dogs of all sizes are pack animals and have a need to be near their pack. Puppies do need to have regular potty breaks, you know the small bladder thing.
Dogs actually feel very secure in their crates. The crate needs to be treated as a safe haven a den and not viewed as a cage or punishment. Dogs pick up on things like that from their people. I do agree that especially moving the puppy away from the pack would not be a good thing.
When my dog was a puppy, his crate was downstairs and he had commanding views of all the doors and hallways so he always knew where I was. He was not allowed in the bedroom because the cats were there and they needed a safe place. He would bark for hours after we left for work according to the neighbors and at night he did start whimpering when left alone. We tried the radio trick, but the dog learned that we only left the radio on when we were not home. So, we left the tv and a night light on for him every night, he even thought the dog in the tv was real. After a while I learned that just the tv or just the night light worked just as well. As he got older, he figured out that whether we went upstairs or out to work, we were going to come back and not abandon him, so he would not worry unless we were later than usual. He learned to take cues from the cats, the cats would always hear the car or someone approaching before he did, he would see them come to attention and then he would listen for what they were alerting on. Too bad watch cats only watch.
For the wimpering, it is just like howling, the best way to extinguish the behavior is to not reward it. Even telling the dog to shut up is a reward because he is getting attention.
If the dog whimpers or howls you cannot pay attention to the dog until he stops. When he is not making any noises, thats when you give the dog lots of attention. He soon learn what behaviors get him what he wants.
When I brought my puppy home from the humane society, many years ago, he was 10 weeks old, five minutes after we left the shelter he started to howl. I ignored the howling, but paid a lot of attention to him when he was quiet, I talked and petted him, but stopped as soon as he made noise again. By the time we were halfway home, the howling was extinguished. Slippers stealing took a few lessons. He picked the slipper up without breaking stride out the front door, I took the slipper from his mouth and after a few lessons of having him surrounded by slippers and rewarding him with jerky treats for leaving them alone, he got the message and never bothered slippers again. It was a lot harder finding appropriate chew toys, he could destroy anything.
Dogs actually feel very secure in their crates. The crate needs to be treated as a safe haven a den and not viewed as a cage or punishment. Dogs pick up on things like that from their people. I do agree that especially moving the puppy away from the pack would not be a good thing.
When my dog was a puppy, his crate was downstairs and he had commanding views of all the doors and hallways so he always knew where I was. He was not allowed in the bedroom because the cats were there and they needed a safe place. He would bark for hours after we left for work according to the neighbors and at night he did start whimpering when left alone. We tried the radio trick, but the dog learned that we only left the radio on when we were not home. So, we left the tv and a night light on for him every night, he even thought the dog in the tv was real. After a while I learned that just the tv or just the night light worked just as well. As he got older, he figured out that whether we went upstairs or out to work, we were going to come back and not abandon him, so he would not worry unless we were later than usual. He learned to take cues from the cats, the cats would always hear the car or someone approaching before he did, he would see them come to attention and then he would listen for what they were alerting on. Too bad watch cats only watch.
For the wimpering, it is just like howling, the best way to extinguish the behavior is to not reward it. Even telling the dog to shut up is a reward because he is getting attention.
If the dog whimpers or howls you cannot pay attention to the dog until he stops. When he is not making any noises, thats when you give the dog lots of attention. He soon learn what behaviors get him what he wants.
When I brought my puppy home from the humane society, many years ago, he was 10 weeks old, five minutes after we left the shelter he started to howl. I ignored the howling, but paid a lot of attention to him when he was quiet, I talked and petted him, but stopped as soon as he made noise again. By the time we were halfway home, the howling was extinguished. Slippers stealing took a few lessons. He picked the slipper up without breaking stride out the front door, I took the slipper from his mouth and after a few lessons of having him surrounded by slippers and rewarding him with jerky treats for leaving them alone, he got the message and never bothered slippers again. It was a lot harder finding appropriate chew toys, he could destroy anything.
>>in the basement
nope. off on the wrong track there . . .
what you need a bigger bed, problem solved.
(that's the dog lover in us . . . )
before we had kids, we had a dog. the dog was totally devoted to my wife.
one night, kerthump, I fell out of bed. got up, looked around, dog was sprawled out on the bed - on my side....
well, that had to change.
at the time I was in the Navy, living on base. twice a year the Marines did a dog obedience / training school.
we had a metal choker collar with a ten ft leather leash. it was only used for training - as soon as we put the choker collar on the dog she knew _instantly_ she was expected to be on her best behavior.
I could hand the leash to the dog, she'd hold it in her mouth - and heel right beside me. dogs must be on a leash - but nobody said who has to be holding the leash. people were astounded at her behavior.
we were traveling with two kids + dog. motel insisted I sign a waiver accepting responsibility for any 'doggie damages'
when we checked out, clerk asked: any problems with the dog?
my answer: no. my daughter threw up in the bathroom, my son wet the bed, but the dog did just fine thank you.....
most dogs (indeed but not all....) take to training very well - the want to please their humans.
not humans take the time and patience to train their dogs.
nope. off on the wrong track there . . .
what you need a bigger bed, problem solved.
(that's the dog lover in us . . . )
before we had kids, we had a dog. the dog was totally devoted to my wife.
one night, kerthump, I fell out of bed. got up, looked around, dog was sprawled out on the bed - on my side....
well, that had to change.
at the time I was in the Navy, living on base. twice a year the Marines did a dog obedience / training school.
we had a metal choker collar with a ten ft leather leash. it was only used for training - as soon as we put the choker collar on the dog she knew _instantly_ she was expected to be on her best behavior.
I could hand the leash to the dog, she'd hold it in her mouth - and heel right beside me. dogs must be on a leash - but nobody said who has to be holding the leash. people were astounded at her behavior.
we were traveling with two kids + dog. motel insisted I sign a waiver accepting responsibility for any 'doggie damages'
when we checked out, clerk asked: any problems with the dog?
my answer: no. my daughter threw up in the bathroom, my son wet the bed, but the dog did just fine thank you.....
most dogs (indeed but not all....) take to training very well - the want to please their humans.
not humans take the time and patience to train their dogs.
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Nickleby loves his crate and enjoys being in it. We never make it a place of punishment. In fact, we don't make any place a place of punishment. We're training with positive rewards.
Last night we set his crate up in the livingroom, facing the cats. The cats sleep on the sofa. Nickleby was fine. No whining. No howling. He just curled up and went back to sleep.
The cats and Nickleby get along fine. It took a minimal amount of training to adjust his behavior but now it's not unusual to see them lying on the bed together. As far as the bladder, take my word for it, we're on top of it.
Thanks a bunch for the feedback!
Last night we set his crate up in the livingroom, facing the cats. The cats sleep on the sofa. Nickleby was fine. No whining. No howling. He just curled up and went back to sleep.
The cats and Nickleby get along fine. It took a minimal amount of training to adjust his behavior but now it's not unusual to see them lying on the bed together. As far as the bladder, take my word for it, we're on top of it.
Thanks a bunch for the feedback!
Sounds like you are off to a great start training him right from the outset. Dogs need to know who is the pack leader, so it is good that you are taking that role and planned for a long term commitment. I myself prefer big dogs because they don't have small dog issues like being high strung, yappy and jumping all over people, not to mention leading the walk.
Big dogs are not lap dogs, their size makes it easy for people not to put them in their laps where they are often in control. If you have ever walked a big dog, you know that it can be sometimes challenging even with training to keep a big dog that is distracted from walking you. You are lucky that your dog is easily trained some dog breeds and individual personality traits may mean some dogs need more time to get it. It is also great if everyone in the household is on the same page and is consistent with training the same way.
My husband's job was to exercise the dog because I don't like to walk and I cannot walk fast enough for the dog. But, my husband had a 76 lb dog on a long leash with him out in front all of the time. Anytime I had to try to walk him, I had to use a leash and a halti and arm wrestle him for 15 minutes to get him to walk at my side and not in front of me. It was exhausting. He was very smart considering he was an Irish setter mix. Irish setters are not known for being all that bright. He did have other setter traits though, he loved people, loved to run (I always got runners even when I thought I was picking the calmest of the litter), wanted to play all of the time, and always wanted company. He had some bad traits that we did have problems with, he only played rough, so we had to find playmates that also played rough.
Big dogs are not lap dogs, their size makes it easy for people not to put them in their laps where they are often in control. If you have ever walked a big dog, you know that it can be sometimes challenging even with training to keep a big dog that is distracted from walking you. You are lucky that your dog is easily trained some dog breeds and individual personality traits may mean some dogs need more time to get it. It is also great if everyone in the household is on the same page and is consistent with training the same way.
My husband's job was to exercise the dog because I don't like to walk and I cannot walk fast enough for the dog. But, my husband had a 76 lb dog on a long leash with him out in front all of the time. Anytime I had to try to walk him, I had to use a leash and a halti and arm wrestle him for 15 minutes to get him to walk at my side and not in front of me. It was exhausting. He was very smart considering he was an Irish setter mix. Irish setters are not known for being all that bright. He did have other setter traits though, he loved people, loved to run (I always got runners even when I thought I was picking the calmest of the litter), wanted to play all of the time, and always wanted company. He had some bad traits that we did have problems with, he only played rough, so we had to find playmates that also played rough.
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DoubleDogFarm
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I'm not making up the lingo. Crate training is what the world calls it. Even the doggie training teacher, a very sweet lady, calls it Crate Training.
https://www.humanesociety.org/animals/do ... ining.html
My father had to get surgery for his shoulder because his 75 pound pit bull used to lead the walk and practically pulled my dad's arm out the socket. That dog tore the muscles in my dad's shoulder. He loved his dog but he was a crappy dog owner to all his dogs. His last one was a diabetes-infested mess because he fed her human food.
We got our dog one of those harnesses that latch in the front but a little askew to the side. It keeps dogs from wanting to lead. A great invention! Everytime they pull forward the angle of the leash pulls them to the side. So they give up and don't pull the leash. It's as much for their health and benefit as it is for the owner. I learned that some dogs actually scar the inside of their throats from pulling on the leash.
https://www.humanesociety.org/animals/do ... ining.html
I despise yappy and out of control children. Likewise, I despise and detest yappy and out of control dogs. It's not the dog's fault. It's always the owner's fault, the owner's negligence, the owner's ignorance and/or the owner's laziness. Just as out of control kids are always the parent's fault....small dog issues like being high strung, yappy and jumping all over people, not to mention leading the walk.
My father had to get surgery for his shoulder because his 75 pound pit bull used to lead the walk and practically pulled my dad's arm out the socket. That dog tore the muscles in my dad's shoulder. He loved his dog but he was a crappy dog owner to all his dogs. His last one was a diabetes-infested mess because he fed her human food.
We got our dog one of those harnesses that latch in the front but a little askew to the side. It keeps dogs from wanting to lead. A great invention! Everytime they pull forward the angle of the leash pulls them to the side. So they give up and don't pull the leash. It's as much for their health and benefit as it is for the owner. I learned that some dogs actually scar the inside of their throats from pulling on the leash.
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Cola82
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In anticipation of getting a dog someday, I made a habit of listening to a dog training podcast that espoused reward based training that all seemed very compassionate and the host seemed to have no problem with crate training.
...And I've known people who tried to crate their dogs almost all of the time--my parents' friends did this with their puppy because of her energy, but she quickly figured out that the crate meant no more fun time and by the time she was 8 months old she was too big to force into the crate, so they basically had a high energy, emotionally needy, destructive dog you couldn't control. I know, because my parents dog sit every Christmas when their friends go to Disneyland, and I've spent a couple nights dog sitting when my parents were out, too. I don't think that's what we're talking about.
Even worse, I had a friend whose sister adopted an adult pit mix and tried to crate her in the bedroom and was almost never home--the dog developed separation anxiety from being crated for 18 hours a day and finally broke out and completely demolished the entire bedroom. They sent her back to the shelter.
So I'm about as unsympathetic to irresponsible owners as anyone.
ETA: as for Watch Cats, the little one usually alerts us to people about to knock on the door by going rigid and stretching her neck into the air as far is it will go and then bolting up the stairs when the knock falls. I'm pretty sure no one's going to be writing articles about how she saved us from a fire. ;p
...And I've known people who tried to crate their dogs almost all of the time--my parents' friends did this with their puppy because of her energy, but she quickly figured out that the crate meant no more fun time and by the time she was 8 months old she was too big to force into the crate, so they basically had a high energy, emotionally needy, destructive dog you couldn't control. I know, because my parents dog sit every Christmas when their friends go to Disneyland, and I've spent a couple nights dog sitting when my parents were out, too. I don't think that's what we're talking about.
Even worse, I had a friend whose sister adopted an adult pit mix and tried to crate her in the bedroom and was almost never home--the dog developed separation anxiety from being crated for 18 hours a day and finally broke out and completely demolished the entire bedroom. They sent her back to the shelter.
So I'm about as unsympathetic to irresponsible owners as anyone.
ETA: as for Watch Cats, the little one usually alerts us to people about to knock on the door by going rigid and stretching her neck into the air as far is it will go and then bolting up the stairs when the knock falls. I'm pretty sure no one's going to be writing articles about how she saved us from a fire. ;p
Crate training at night when it's time for sleeping is normal for dogs and puppies. I think people don't like the sound of the word "crate" sometimes, and then there are the people who use it as a short cut for properly working with a dog, like the people Cola described. Sounds to me like the crate training you are doing with your puppy is normal though. And most dogs who are properly crated are comforted by having a nice little den of their own, and I have seen them seek out the crate/den/bed when they want some space. My dog is very large, and a crate for him would be too much money for me, but I bed trained him. Basically, lay on his dog bed when it's time to sleep. And he seeks the dog bed out when he wants some space.
You also talked about spoiling dogs, and how annoying they are, and I totally agree. I dislike spoiled dogs, and people who expect you to drop everything to accommodate the dogs whim. Ridiculous...I refuse. But there is a difference between a spoiled dog, and a dog who is well taken care of and indulged when he behaves. Setting boundaries for a dog, gives the animal both freedom of choice, and the comfort of being in a supportive nurturing environment. In my house, as long as my dog, behaves in acceptable ways, I will indulge him with treats, and toys, and as much play time as he wants, but I don't give postive attention to behaviors outside of my set boundaries for tolerable dog antics. That's the reason why I would, in your situation with the puppy whining, first try and break him of the annoying behavoir of whining when there is not a viable purpose. It sets your personal boundary, of what reason's for whining you will tolerate, and as smart of a dog as your puppy seems to be, it is easily something he can learn. Setting firm boundaries not only creates a supportive environment, but it also puts it in his puppy brain that YOU are the boss and not him. He learns that you are the leader, you make the rules, and you decide when is the appropriate time to play, and he learns when the appropriate times are to whine. ie, it is ok to whine if he has to potty, it's ok to whine if he is thirsty, or hurt, but the pack leader/alpha dog(that is you) say it is not ok to whine at the table for scraps, it is not ok to whine at 3 am( or whatever time he starts) to go play. I liked what someone else said, about saying "no" firmly to him. People oriented dogs, are very sensitive to human emotion and attitude, and with most of them, showing disapproval gives them the message loud and clear. Also, teaching him the boundaries for acceptable whining enables the puppy to "communicate" with you. After he learns the lesson, you will know he is whining because he is hurt or, has something wrong, and not just wanting table scraps or your snack. With the proper boundaries understood between you and your puppy, you will have a happy, and well adjusted dog instead of a spoiled, insecure animal. This is what I have learned from my experiences with training traumatized animals, and it is what works for me. So there are my 2 cents on dog training, LOL
You also talked about spoiling dogs, and how annoying they are, and I totally agree. I dislike spoiled dogs, and people who expect you to drop everything to accommodate the dogs whim. Ridiculous...I refuse. But there is a difference between a spoiled dog, and a dog who is well taken care of and indulged when he behaves. Setting boundaries for a dog, gives the animal both freedom of choice, and the comfort of being in a supportive nurturing environment. In my house, as long as my dog, behaves in acceptable ways, I will indulge him with treats, and toys, and as much play time as he wants, but I don't give postive attention to behaviors outside of my set boundaries for tolerable dog antics. That's the reason why I would, in your situation with the puppy whining, first try and break him of the annoying behavoir of whining when there is not a viable purpose. It sets your personal boundary, of what reason's for whining you will tolerate, and as smart of a dog as your puppy seems to be, it is easily something he can learn. Setting firm boundaries not only creates a supportive environment, but it also puts it in his puppy brain that YOU are the boss and not him. He learns that you are the leader, you make the rules, and you decide when is the appropriate time to play, and he learns when the appropriate times are to whine. ie, it is ok to whine if he has to potty, it's ok to whine if he is thirsty, or hurt, but the pack leader/alpha dog(that is you) say it is not ok to whine at the table for scraps, it is not ok to whine at 3 am( or whatever time he starts) to go play. I liked what someone else said, about saying "no" firmly to him. People oriented dogs, are very sensitive to human emotion and attitude, and with most of them, showing disapproval gives them the message loud and clear. Also, teaching him the boundaries for acceptable whining enables the puppy to "communicate" with you. After he learns the lesson, you will know he is whining because he is hurt or, has something wrong, and not just wanting table scraps or your snack. With the proper boundaries understood between you and your puppy, you will have a happy, and well adjusted dog instead of a spoiled, insecure animal. This is what I have learned from my experiences with training traumatized animals, and it is what works for me. So there are my 2 cents on dog training, LOL
That would be yes Marlingardener. I was a nanny for 14 years, and a toddler and preschool teacher for 7 years after that. It's kind of where I first learned the need for setting boundaries, and it did translate to training dogs and cats with some modifications, LOL The important thing I found is to approach everything with children, dogs, and cats with love and confidence, because somehow all 3 of them can sense tension and fear, LOLMarlingardener wrote:Ramona, I am tempted to ask you to come stay with us for as long as it takes for you to train the yappers that live down the hill (I go out a 7 am to care for the hens and the yappers are vocalizing) and to also train their owners, who seem to be deaf!
Good advice, and no wonder you have had success with training traumatized animals. Have you ever had a go at a two-year-old human that really, really needs to discover that there are boundaries to behavior?
And I am glad I was able to help. I love dogs and like to see them happy and healthy. More puppy photos please!
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evtubbergh
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My 2 cents: You're obviously a responsible pet owner and have no intention of spoiling him. But getting up to pee is not spoiling, its a necessity. How come you can get up for water but he can't go have a pee? And the alternative is to sleep on his own in the basement? That's a terrible option!
We have similar issues but I can tell you that
1. after he grows up he will be much better at waiting,
2. if you establish a routine now you will find he sticks to it later
3. and you need to suck it up for now until you get there by letting him out to pee but get back into bed, telling him no, show him to get back in bed etc.
Lastly, install a dog door; we just let them get on with it and sleep through it all.
We have similar issues but I can tell you that
1. after he grows up he will be much better at waiting,
2. if you establish a routine now you will find he sticks to it later
3. and you need to suck it up for now until you get there by letting him out to pee but get back into bed, telling him no, show him to get back in bed etc.
Lastly, install a dog door; we just let them get on with it and sleep through it all.
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There is a misunderstanding here. The dog does not want to get up to pee. The dog does not wake us up to pee. Peeing is not a problem. Waking us up is not a problem. He sleeps through the night. He's a fantastic sleeper.But getting up to pee is not spoiling...
WE wake HIM up at 11 PM to take him out to pee. He has his water. Then he does his sleepy/yawny pajama padding back into his crate and goes back to sleep. Like a log. All night. He stays asleep until WE wake HIM up in the morning.
Gosh. He sleeps through the ENTIRE night. You are arguing about something that is not in this discussion. He does not wait, he SLEEPS until WE wake him in the morning.1. after he grows up he will be much better at waiting,
Yes! That is what I'm doing. Read my post more carefully please. He has learned the routine to sleep in the living room with the cats.2. if you establish a routine now you will find he sticks to it later
No, no, no. You are misunderstanding. He pees before bed. He pees in the middle of the night. He sleeps until we wake him up. There is NOTHING for me to suck up. Please, in the future, don't skim the discussions, read them so that your comments accurately address what's being discussed. No offense intended, but your response is needlessly rude because nothing that you said has anything to do with this discussion. You are mistaken.by letting him out to pee
Please read the entire thread, or at least read my posts. Then you will see that you are mistaken about that point. That is NOT the alternative. That is NOT what I am doing.And the alternative is to sleep on his own in the basement?
Read the discussion first please. You're jumping to a million conclusions that aren't in this discussion.
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Charlie MV
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It's not a reading issue. in your first post you said this:
" The problem is that in the morning if he hears us stir he starts doing his pug whine and pug yodel thing, to be let out. "
That's why I brought up the small bladder thing and probably where some of us got the idea it was a peeing issue. I followed what you said subsequently but that's where the misunderstanding came from.
I'm dropping out of this peeing contest before you hit me with a rolled up newspaper.
" The problem is that in the morning if he hears us stir he starts doing his pug whine and pug yodel thing, to be let out. "
That's why I brought up the small bladder thing and probably where some of us got the idea it was a peeing issue. I followed what you said subsequently but that's where the misunderstanding came from.
I'm dropping out of this peeing contest before you hit me with a rolled up newspaper.
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Charlie MV
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With the whining thing, it seems the dog is waiting for you to come play with him. At least he waits until he sees you start moving. I actually do not tolerate whining or barking without reason. I think you do have a great start with your puppy and once you are trained to stick to a routine, it will be a lot easier for him to learn to wait without whining.
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We're working on the barking thing. Nickleby's a very quiet dog, never ever barks. He's very quiet.
The exception is when anyone approaches the house. Started since his you know whats dropped. He hasn't been fixed yet, that happens next week, so we're hoping the barking thing might mellow out. Nevertheless we've been working with him and he's learning to obey the Quiet command. When he starts barking we repeat the command and treat him for obeying it. We read it can take a long time for dogs to learn to suppress the barking, but so far he's doing well.
As far as peeing, I wish people would stop commenting on that. It's not at issue. Dogs can hold it for eight hours. But we're making sure he doesn't go more than 6.5 hours without peeing at night, which is why we wake him in the middle of the night. Nickleby does not have accidents. When he wants to go he has developed a specific sound for it. Other than that we take him out regularly.
Yesterday my daughter had a skit at her camp but I couldn't go see because I couldn't bear to crate him for four hours in the afternoon until we returned in the evening and I didn't want to leave him unsupervised for that length of time, although he's good about being left alone. So I stayed behind with him. He fell asleep on the floor around 9 PM and we woke him up around midnight to do his business then crated him up in the living room. All just fine.
I think you're right, he mostly wants to get out and play and greet every family member in the house.
The exception is when anyone approaches the house. Started since his you know whats dropped. He hasn't been fixed yet, that happens next week, so we're hoping the barking thing might mellow out. Nevertheless we've been working with him and he's learning to obey the Quiet command. When he starts barking we repeat the command and treat him for obeying it. We read it can take a long time for dogs to learn to suppress the barking, but so far he's doing well.
As far as peeing, I wish people would stop commenting on that. It's not at issue. Dogs can hold it for eight hours. But we're making sure he doesn't go more than 6.5 hours without peeing at night, which is why we wake him in the middle of the night. Nickleby does not have accidents. When he wants to go he has developed a specific sound for it. Other than that we take him out regularly.
Yesterday my daughter had a skit at her camp but I couldn't go see because I couldn't bear to crate him for four hours in the afternoon until we returned in the evening and I didn't want to leave him unsupervised for that length of time, although he's good about being left alone. So I stayed behind with him. He fell asleep on the floor around 9 PM and we woke him up around midnight to do his business then crated him up in the living room. All just fine.
I think you're right, he mostly wants to get out and play and greet every family member in the house.
My dog barks only if there is someone coming to the door, but as soon as I stand up he stops and moves away. That's his job to me, let me know when there are other people around as the doorbell's back up, LOL!
You know if you train Nickleby to use puppy pads, you could leave him alone without the crating. Once you are confident with his training, and know he won't chew things other than toys or treats that is.
You know if you train Nickleby to use puppy pads, you could leave him alone without the crating. Once you are confident with his training, and know he won't chew things other than toys or treats that is.
Ok first of all let me tell you I'm a true dog lover, I've had them my whole life. I've grown up on farms and all I've had are farm dogs, I've never house trained a dog before. That being said I now own two dogs that I've trained by myself. Granted they are outside dogs but the concept is still similar. One is 9yrs old a 125lb Chesador (lab/Chesapeake) the other is a 1 1/2 yr old full blooded Chesapeake Bay Retriever. I work 12hr shifts at a hospital and live on a farm. Neither dog is kenneled nor leashed they are outside 24/7 and never locked up. They stay home and do not go on the road to get hit by cars. They are hunting dogs but they won't any field trials. When I got Herb (the 9yr old) I basically decided that I wanted a dog with some common sense. I don't need him to be like some hunting dogs you see that seemingly don't have a mind of their own, Herb does. Its part of the Chesapeake in him, if you don't Chessies they are notorious for being very hard to train and can be aggressive biters. Anyway both dogs have turned out great I've left for as long as 6 days and both dogs stay at home. I just have someone to come hang out with them for one hour a day and feed them. My dogs know their job and that is to watch the farm, no they aren't attack dogs they love people and other dogs. Its the critters they go after, mink, skunk, opossum, racoon, wood chucks, gophers, snakes, muskrats, feral cats, etc. To them its their job and it gives them a purpose and something to do. Hopefully they do a good job this year and protect my garden from coons and possums.
That being said your situation is a little different than mine but you have to tailor your program to what you want your dog to turn out like because as a puppy they will their good and bad habits for life, that's not to say that you can't train it later, it'll just be a bit more difficult.
My first suggestion is to read a good book and hands down THE best book and author on dog training that I've found is Richard A. Wolters he wrote a series of books starting in 1961 called Gun dog, Water dog, Family dog, Instant dog, Game dog, City dog, Kids Dog and a few others. Very common sense training of a guy training a field champion trial dog in the middle of a huge city. The guy is a mastermind and before Cesar and the dog whisperer there was Richard Wolters. Get one of his books and I guarantee you will have a better dog because of reading the book.
The great thing is dogs don't change so the books are completely relevant. No matter the size of the dog they still are all trainable just the same.
Just use common sense, try not to get too frustrated and don't make it more difficult than it has to be. Always remember you are the alpha dog. The dog doesn't run your life, you rule the dog's life and not the other way around.
Maybe you are ok with it but your instance of staying home from your daughter's skit I'm afraid is an instance where the dog was running your life. Maybe you are ok with that and don't take it personally its just obvious for me to see.
Anyways arm yourself with knowledge, I'm no expert on the matter and I had help by reading gun and water dog. Believe me it helped TREMENDOUSLY I can't state that enough. Too many times I see people with unbehaved dogs, no they aren't uncontrollable just extremely annoying. And if a dog is annoying it reflects very badly upon their owner, after all they are the ones that trained them. I think you are doing just fine though so far. But a little help is good too. An example of Wolters training is getting down to your dogs level when you call it. Simple enough, the dog responds better to your commands when you are down there eventually you won't have to. Try it sometime, if he doesn't come when you call standing up get down on your knees and call and I'll be he enthusiastically comes running to you!
Anyways I've blabbed enough about this lol, have fun training your dog its quite an adventure
That being said your situation is a little different than mine but you have to tailor your program to what you want your dog to turn out like because as a puppy they will their good and bad habits for life, that's not to say that you can't train it later, it'll just be a bit more difficult.
My first suggestion is to read a good book and hands down THE best book and author on dog training that I've found is Richard A. Wolters he wrote a series of books starting in 1961 called Gun dog, Water dog, Family dog, Instant dog, Game dog, City dog, Kids Dog and a few others. Very common sense training of a guy training a field champion trial dog in the middle of a huge city. The guy is a mastermind and before Cesar and the dog whisperer there was Richard Wolters. Get one of his books and I guarantee you will have a better dog because of reading the book.
The great thing is dogs don't change so the books are completely relevant. No matter the size of the dog they still are all trainable just the same.
Just use common sense, try not to get too frustrated and don't make it more difficult than it has to be. Always remember you are the alpha dog. The dog doesn't run your life, you rule the dog's life and not the other way around.
Maybe you are ok with it but your instance of staying home from your daughter's skit I'm afraid is an instance where the dog was running your life. Maybe you are ok with that and don't take it personally its just obvious for me to see.
Anyways arm yourself with knowledge, I'm no expert on the matter and I had help by reading gun and water dog. Believe me it helped TREMENDOUSLY I can't state that enough. Too many times I see people with unbehaved dogs, no they aren't uncontrollable just extremely annoying. And if a dog is annoying it reflects very badly upon their owner, after all they are the ones that trained them. I think you are doing just fine though so far. But a little help is good too. An example of Wolters training is getting down to your dogs level when you call it. Simple enough, the dog responds better to your commands when you are down there eventually you won't have to. Try it sometime, if he doesn't come when you call standing up get down on your knees and call and I'll be he enthusiastically comes running to you!
Anyways I've blabbed enough about this lol, have fun training your dog its quite an adventure
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You're absolutely right. We considered that the next day and thought we should have probably trusted him to hang out by himself in the house. I think one of the concerns we had though was the heat, because pugs and Nickleby, don't do well in the heat.your instance of staying home from your daughter's skit I'm afraid is an instance where the dog was running your life.
I'll look for that author. We have a number of books that we bought before we adopted a dog, but a little more reading is definitely welcome!
Well I wouldn't trust him completely, I mean it all depends on how much you really like your couch pillows lol. I'd just confine him to the kitchen or something along that lines and he will be just fine I'm sure. But puppies always chew on everything. My chesador I'd confine to the garage and he managed to go through several garden hoses and a disk grinder. The couch he sleep on I made of wood piled with wool blankets but when they are teething they will chew on anything so be careful and don't get too mad when the do chew things up. Just make sure he doesn't chew up your wifes Coach purse or something lol.
My brother's puppy chewed up anything made of wood. He chewed the base of his snake terrarium, the wood along the windowsill, a wooden crate, a walking cane, a parasol, and the leg of a baby grand piano that had been in our family for 4 generations. I told my brother he didn't adopt a dog, he adopted a giant 4 legged termite! 
I know several people who block their small dogs in their kitchens when they go out. It seems to be a good place as long as the trash is somewhere the dog can't get into. They say it is easier to clean a kitchen floor if the dogs have an accident, and few things for the pup to chew on. Make sure Nickelby has plenty of toys and things to chew on, and like I suggested before, if you train him to use a potty pad then you can throw one of those down in case he can't hold it until you get back. But puppies will always find something unacceptable to chew on like Gunsmoke said. It's what they do, LOL
My chosen breed of dogs are racing greyhounds, and because of their sensitivity to temperature extremes they can't be strictly outside dogs even in the moderate climate I live in. My biggest challenge is re-educating them on how to be dogs, and to trust humans again. My heart went out to them when I found out the level of abuse they go through while racing.
I know several people who block their small dogs in their kitchens when they go out. It seems to be a good place as long as the trash is somewhere the dog can't get into. They say it is easier to clean a kitchen floor if the dogs have an accident, and few things for the pup to chew on. Make sure Nickelby has plenty of toys and things to chew on, and like I suggested before, if you train him to use a potty pad then you can throw one of those down in case he can't hold it until you get back. But puppies will always find something unacceptable to chew on like Gunsmoke said. It's what they do, LOL
My chosen breed of dogs are racing greyhounds, and because of their sensitivity to temperature extremes they can't be strictly outside dogs even in the moderate climate I live in. My biggest challenge is re-educating them on how to be dogs, and to trust humans again. My heart went out to them when I found out the level of abuse they go through while racing.
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Gardener123
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From ASPCA site:
I have posted this several times already but I will post it again... we wake him up in the middle of the night to relieve himself. And, as has been mentioned several times already, peeing is not a problem.
Thanks for your input.How Often Your Puppy Needs to Go Out
All puppies are different, but a puppy can usually only hold his waste for the same number of hours as his age in months. (In other words, a four-month-old pup should not be left alone for more than four consecutive hours without an opportunity to go outside.) He can last longer at night, however, since he’s inactive (just like we can). By the time your pup is about four months old, he should be able to make it through the night without going outside.
I have posted this several times already but I will post it again... we wake him up in the middle of the night to relieve himself. And, as has been mentioned several times already, peeing is not a problem.