Hello,
I have been trying to grow mostly greens and herbs for the past few years with very little luck. I have read loads of books, webpages and spoken to many other gardeners and farmers and still having very little luck with my veggie patch. I am really interested in organic gardening and growing my own veggies and herbs and I spend as much time as possible learning what I can.
I am mostly trying to grow Silverbeet, Rocket, cherry tomatoes, beetroots and herbs... however they just will not grow! I have tried seeds, seedlings and established plants and they look perfectly healthy but they just sit in the ground and do not grow despite composting, regular organic fertilizing, watering daily, and mulching. I attend to the veggie patch multiple times everyday and have chosen a suitable location for growing the plants. I have Silverbeet which has been in the soil for over 4 months and still the same size (and too small to harvest) but still looks perfectly healthy otherwise. Same with beetroot - leaves grow ever so slightly but no root.
The only carrotts I have grown are 2cm long (about 1 inch) and about 1/2cm wide.
The rocket has been the most successful however again there have also been some plants which have not grown at all despite being planted in the same place etc.
Tomatoes get lots of flowers and fruit and then literally over night all the leaves will die off for no apparent reason. I only water at the base - not the leaves.
I have tried planting in garden beds and pots and even used the exact same organic soil, fertilizer, plants, seeds as someone I know who has great success. I even follow the same routines but with no success.
I have tested the Ph and am getting a reading between 6-7. I would love to know what is going on and how to get my plants to grow!
Can anyone help me out? Thanks!
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green_2013
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applestar
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It sounds like you are paying attention to their needs. What kind of climate -- day/night temperture do you get -- do you live in cold climate with winter freezes? Is your summer very hot? Your use of the word "silverbeet" suggests to me that you are either in Australia or GB/Europe?
One very important factor is to plant at the correct time/season for each plant. I'm wondering if this is being met? Some crops will not grow well because it is too cold and some because it is too hot.
Another is to choose suitable varieties of each crop -- I guess I'm thinking about carrots in particular. Long carrots need deep loose soil, some varieties only grow small and short, etc.
Soil fertility needs are different for leafy greens vs. fruiting crops, vs. root crops.
One other factor I can think of is that maybe you are planting them too close and they are competing for nutrients, moisture, and sun?
Oh! Another clue -- "watering daily" -- this often indicates that you are not giving them enough water each time. When you water, do you check to see how deeply the water has soaked in by pushing your fingers into the soil? It's best to water deeply twice a week or so (there a member here who waters extra deeply just once a week) except for seedbeds and jut sprouted seedlings which may need to be watered somewhat more frequently. Container plants are different and may need daily watering in the heat of the summer, though.
You want to force/encourage the plants to grow deeper roots seeking moisture.
...that's all I can think of based on your first post. Feel free to follow up so we can figure this out.
One very important factor is to plant at the correct time/season for each plant. I'm wondering if this is being met? Some crops will not grow well because it is too cold and some because it is too hot.
Another is to choose suitable varieties of each crop -- I guess I'm thinking about carrots in particular. Long carrots need deep loose soil, some varieties only grow small and short, etc.
Soil fertility needs are different for leafy greens vs. fruiting crops, vs. root crops.
One other factor I can think of is that maybe you are planting them too close and they are competing for nutrients, moisture, and sun?
Oh! Another clue -- "watering daily" -- this often indicates that you are not giving them enough water each time. When you water, do you check to see how deeply the water has soaked in by pushing your fingers into the soil? It's best to water deeply twice a week or so (there a member here who waters extra deeply just once a week) except for seedbeds and jut sprouted seedlings which may need to be watered somewhat more frequently. Container plants are different and may need daily watering in the heat of the summer, though.
You want to force/encourage the plants to grow deeper roots seeking moisture.
...that's all I can think of based on your first post. Feel free to follow up so we can figure this out.
Last edited by applestar on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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rainbowgardener
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It's a mystery! If there is sun, water, loosened up fertile soil, there is no reason why things shouldn't grow.
All I can suggest from this amount of information, is that you try it again this year and post pictures here as you go. (Instructions for posting pictures are in New to Helpful Gardener? under Helpful Tips and Suggestions for New Members.) Give as much info as you can about where you are, your climate, the sun/ water conditions, what your soil is like, etc and we will try to figure it out together.
I never heard of anything like what you describe with your tomatoes. Squash plants can do that, not quite literally overnight, but over a period of just 2-3 days. When it happens to squash, it is caused by a squash vine borer insect, which burrows in to the base of the stem and severs all the channels that carry water and nutrients to the rest of the plant. There is a tomato borer, thankfully a lot less common. Have you inspected the stems of the dying tomato plant? You would be looking for a hole bored into the stem low down.
Other than that, I would have to think about some kind of poisoning. When the tomato leaves die off, is it soon after you have added some kind of fertilizer or additive? Most diseases and pests don't act so fast, which is why I think poisoned. Have you tested the pH of your water?
Welcome to the Forum! I hope if you post lots of info and pictures, we can help you figure this out and have a more successful garden year coming up.
All I can suggest from this amount of information, is that you try it again this year and post pictures here as you go. (Instructions for posting pictures are in New to Helpful Gardener? under Helpful Tips and Suggestions for New Members.) Give as much info as you can about where you are, your climate, the sun/ water conditions, what your soil is like, etc and we will try to figure it out together.
I never heard of anything like what you describe with your tomatoes. Squash plants can do that, not quite literally overnight, but over a period of just 2-3 days. When it happens to squash, it is caused by a squash vine borer insect, which burrows in to the base of the stem and severs all the channels that carry water and nutrients to the rest of the plant. There is a tomato borer, thankfully a lot less common. Have you inspected the stems of the dying tomato plant? You would be looking for a hole bored into the stem low down.
Other than that, I would have to think about some kind of poisoning. When the tomato leaves die off, is it soon after you have added some kind of fertilizer or additive? Most diseases and pests don't act so fast, which is why I think poisoned. Have you tested the pH of your water?
Welcome to the Forum! I hope if you post lots of info and pictures, we can help you figure this out and have a more successful garden year coming up.
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rainbowgardener
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm
- Location: TN/GA 7b
I just saw applestar's response, which she sneaked in there, while I was typing mine! 
I have to agree that I was wondering about the watering daily and also the tending multiple times a day. I would have no idea what to do to my plants multiple times a day. You may just be trying too hard -- watering too often, but not deeply, fussing too much.
The times I have seen plants sit there and not grow, but not die, just stay green and not doing anything, it has usually been some kind of problem with the roots. When you dig the plant up, you find a perfectly healthy looking little plant with hardly any root system. Have you inspected like that?
I have to agree that I was wondering about the watering daily and also the tending multiple times a day. I would have no idea what to do to my plants multiple times a day. You may just be trying too hard -- watering too often, but not deeply, fussing too much.
The times I have seen plants sit there and not grow, but not die, just stay green and not doing anything, it has usually been some kind of problem with the roots. When you dig the plant up, you find a perfectly healthy looking little plant with hardly any root system. Have you inspected like that?
May I ask where your garden is located? I may be that you are trying to grow things a little early. When I plant things out in December, the germination time is tripled and growth is very slow. If I plant now, it will be close to normal for the cool crops and delayed for the warm crops.
This time of year I don't have to water as much because it is raining. Over watering will drown the roots. Highly organic soils hold on to water so you should water deeply, but sparingly.
I have seen plants look green and healthy and then totally wilt and die within a week. In my case it is caused by phythoptora, and is a condition that is most common with poorly draining or constantly wet soils. It is what caused the potato famine in Ireland. It is actually worse in summer when there is less rain. The fungi in the stagnant wet soil multiples and kills off the roots. Most people notice plants doing poorly and think more water will help, because the plants wilt and act drought stressed. The plants are actually starving because the roots are rotting and cannot pick up any nutrients from the soil or transport water.
https://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74133.html
Phythoptora will kill off the deepest rooted plants first. In my case plants are at risk once the roots reach past 8 inches in the ground. That is why I only grow mostly shallow annual herbs in the ground and drier and deeper rooted herbs in clay pots. I have been raising the beds as much as I can.
The herb garden I take care of sits in a naturally low spot at 17 feet above sea level. When it rains and especially at high tide, the water table is very high.
https://www.ahs.org/publications/the_ame ... /M_J12.pdf
The bog herbs though are very tolerant. Scented geraniums, culantro, marsh mallow, asparagus, comphrey, and horseradish do fine.
Tomatoes, rosemary, lavender, peppers,lovage, and just about everything else do not like wet feet.
Arugula is sometimes the only thing that grow from the mesclun.
If your garden is located in a naturally low spot, it might help to move it to a higher place. Do a drainage test first. Build a raised bed. Put a drainage layer on the bottom of the bed. If you move the bed, spread out the media from your old garden in place. Phytoptora can persist for years. Clean your tools and boots. Start with fresh materials for the new bed. I use hollow tile 2 tiles high and dry laid and use rebar and dirt to hold the tiles in place. Without mortar, the excess water will leak from the spaces between the tiles. Wood in the ground here just attracts termites, so my better choices are tile, brick, stones, wide flashing, and raised beds without a border.
This time of year I don't have to water as much because it is raining. Over watering will drown the roots. Highly organic soils hold on to water so you should water deeply, but sparingly.
I have seen plants look green and healthy and then totally wilt and die within a week. In my case it is caused by phythoptora, and is a condition that is most common with poorly draining or constantly wet soils. It is what caused the potato famine in Ireland. It is actually worse in summer when there is less rain. The fungi in the stagnant wet soil multiples and kills off the roots. Most people notice plants doing poorly and think more water will help, because the plants wilt and act drought stressed. The plants are actually starving because the roots are rotting and cannot pick up any nutrients from the soil or transport water.
https://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74133.html
Phythoptora will kill off the deepest rooted plants first. In my case plants are at risk once the roots reach past 8 inches in the ground. That is why I only grow mostly shallow annual herbs in the ground and drier and deeper rooted herbs in clay pots. I have been raising the beds as much as I can.
The herb garden I take care of sits in a naturally low spot at 17 feet above sea level. When it rains and especially at high tide, the water table is very high.
https://www.ahs.org/publications/the_ame ... /M_J12.pdf
The bog herbs though are very tolerant. Scented geraniums, culantro, marsh mallow, asparagus, comphrey, and horseradish do fine.
Tomatoes, rosemary, lavender, peppers,lovage, and just about everything else do not like wet feet.
Arugula is sometimes the only thing that grow from the mesclun.
If your garden is located in a naturally low spot, it might help to move it to a higher place. Do a drainage test first. Build a raised bed. Put a drainage layer on the bottom of the bed. If you move the bed, spread out the media from your old garden in place. Phytoptora can persist for years. Clean your tools and boots. Start with fresh materials for the new bed. I use hollow tile 2 tiles high and dry laid and use rebar and dirt to hold the tiles in place. Without mortar, the excess water will leak from the spaces between the tiles. Wood in the ground here just attracts termites, so my better choices are tile, brick, stones, wide flashing, and raised beds without a border.
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green_2013
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Thanks a lot for the detailed responses.
Here are some more details.
Yes I am in Australia - NSW. At the moment it is quite dry and little rain, however the soil is rich and moist throughout the veggie patch and pots.
I have dug down 15 - 20 cm in the garden bed and the soil is moist but not saturated the whole way down and nice and rich. The soil in the pots is also moist the whole way through but not saturated.
The water Ph is 6.8 - 7
I have been following the planting times recommended and my neighbours are growing the exact same things with great success with a similar garden/sun position. I have even used the same organic soil (in pots), plants, seeds, fertilizer and follow similar routines. I have also tried planting in pots in different locations around the garden.
I understand that attending to the veggies multiple times a day sounds excessive - however I am determined to try and get to the bottom of this problem. As a result I end up monitoring everything and trying to detect why it is going wrong.
The roots of the Silverbeet have developed since they were planted and are not just on the surface. You can certainly tell they are old plants by looking at the base. They may not be as advanced as they should be for the age but the soil is moist and rich deep down.
The beetroot does absolutely nothing below the soil and the carrots have grown but only to 2cm long and 1/2cm wide... however they have lots of little roots feeding off the side of the carrots.
The roots of the tomato plant seem fine and I can not see any bore holes or marks on the stems. I also have not noticed any pests etc.
The Rocket / Arugula plants are perfectly fine above and below ground with the exception of a few odd plants that just sit there.
Thanks again for the replies... I really hope you can help me get to the bottom of this mystery!
Here are some more details.
Yes I am in Australia - NSW. At the moment it is quite dry and little rain, however the soil is rich and moist throughout the veggie patch and pots.
I have dug down 15 - 20 cm in the garden bed and the soil is moist but not saturated the whole way down and nice and rich. The soil in the pots is also moist the whole way through but not saturated.
The water Ph is 6.8 - 7
I have been following the planting times recommended and my neighbours are growing the exact same things with great success with a similar garden/sun position. I have even used the same organic soil (in pots), plants, seeds, fertilizer and follow similar routines. I have also tried planting in pots in different locations around the garden.
I understand that attending to the veggies multiple times a day sounds excessive - however I am determined to try and get to the bottom of this problem. As a result I end up monitoring everything and trying to detect why it is going wrong.
The roots of the Silverbeet have developed since they were planted and are not just on the surface. You can certainly tell they are old plants by looking at the base. They may not be as advanced as they should be for the age but the soil is moist and rich deep down.
The beetroot does absolutely nothing below the soil and the carrots have grown but only to 2cm long and 1/2cm wide... however they have lots of little roots feeding off the side of the carrots.
The roots of the tomato plant seem fine and I can not see any bore holes or marks on the stems. I also have not noticed any pests etc.
The Rocket / Arugula plants are perfectly fine above and below ground with the exception of a few odd plants that just sit there.
Thanks again for the replies... I really hope you can help me get to the bottom of this mystery!
Try Azomite organic mineral soil amendment.. rock dust
Lettuce Vegetable Farm added with Azomite >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=936YxdCAdGs
What is AZOMITE ? >>> https://www.azomiteinternational.com/FAQ/FAQ_Plants.html
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Lettuce Vegetable Farm added with Azomite >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=936YxdCAdGs
What is AZOMITE ? >>> https://www.azomiteinternational.com/FAQ/FAQ_Plants.html
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applestar
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Well, if you are going to consider Azomite, which comes from Utah in the USA, please refer to this link as well:
https://remineralize.org/a-rock-dust-primer
I had a link for a list of mineral/micronutrient sources from around the world and I thought it came from somewhere on that site, but I can't find it right now. I may do better after drinking my first cup -- Oolong tea this morning.
https://remineralize.org/a-rock-dust-primer
I had a link for a list of mineral/micronutrient sources from around the world and I thought it came from somewhere on that site, but I can't find it right now. I may do better after drinking my first cup -- Oolong tea this morning.
Hmmm. How perplexing! I had this problem the first season I had a raised bed and then noticed my potted plants acting the same in the summer. My soil tested almost neutral at 6.8-7 just like yours, and I was watering with tap water, which is very hard out here. If it is that high you may want to try lowering the pH to about 6.5. Sulfur can be mixed in. It is best to do this between seasons when the bed is empty. Test your containers often. If the pH of your water is very high it will have the most effect on the plants that are watered most often. It may be nutrient locked.
You can also start with the compost while you're in mid-growing season. I pick up espresso grounds from the local coffee shop. There are lots of methods. This forum has had lots of helpful discussion on the topic. Use the little search bar and just type in "lowering pH of soil" and you will get lots of good info.
Don't give up! The best success is the one that follows a thousand failures.
You can also start with the compost while you're in mid-growing season. I pick up espresso grounds from the local coffee shop. There are lots of methods. This forum has had lots of helpful discussion on the topic. Use the little search bar and just type in "lowering pH of soil" and you will get lots of good info.
Don't give up! The best success is the one that follows a thousand failures.
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Jardin du Fort
- Senior Member
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- Location: Fort Wayne, IN
It seems unlikely to be a purely nitrogen issue. He said the greens were healthy but stunted. Carrots were also stunted. (I get that too, but I don't try to plant carrots anymore in the hot/dry time of the year.) And he said he is doing the same type of things his neighbors are doing and their plants are looking fine. If anything he is probably paying more attention than his neighbors. He said he has been giving "regular organic fertilizing". There should be enough nitrogen to get growth. The tomatoes falling over overnight seemed more like a soil pathogen issue, which may be just in his garden and not in the neighbors. But the potted plants had problems too. It is really strange, he seems to be doing everything right. It is hard to tell what is missing?
He is in Australia so the seasons are opposite,February is like the middle of summer.
https://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimat ... h/ASXX0112
He is in Australia so the seasons are opposite,February is like the middle of summer.
https://www.weather.com/weather/wxclimat ... h/ASXX0112
Mr. Green what kind of herbs are you growing? Sometimes especially with companion planting you need to be careful what you put together.
Fennel and dill I know if planted in the wrong place will stunt other plants around them. Fennel stunts almost anything so should be off in a corner by itself somewhere. Dill will be fine until it starts to flower and then it will affect the tomatoes and they will stop growing and producing. Distance matters but it should only affect plants within a few feet.
I have fennel because it attracts so many beneficial insects and bulb fennel tastes pretty good too. I have it in a corner next to gingers because they do not attract the same aphid the fennel does. The aphids do most of the stunting on the plants around the fennel. It only affected plants within a 5-10 ft range. Plants that were planted further away(some of them are about 40 ft away), were not affected but still benefited from the beneficial insects that the fennel attracted. The dill helped the tomato until it flowered, then the tomato stopped growing and flowering and it can stunt carrots. The tomato resumed again after I pulled the dill. Coriander, dill and fennel should not be near each other because they interfere with each other's pollination. I had cowpeas and chives 4 ft from each other and they weren't bothered, but they were not in the same bed.
Fennel and dill I know if planted in the wrong place will stunt other plants around them. Fennel stunts almost anything so should be off in a corner by itself somewhere. Dill will be fine until it starts to flower and then it will affect the tomatoes and they will stop growing and producing. Distance matters but it should only affect plants within a few feet.
I have fennel because it attracts so many beneficial insects and bulb fennel tastes pretty good too. I have it in a corner next to gingers because they do not attract the same aphid the fennel does. The aphids do most of the stunting on the plants around the fennel. It only affected plants within a 5-10 ft range. Plants that were planted further away(some of them are about 40 ft away), were not affected but still benefited from the beneficial insects that the fennel attracted. The dill helped the tomato until it flowered, then the tomato stopped growing and flowering and it can stunt carrots. The tomato resumed again after I pulled the dill. Coriander, dill and fennel should not be near each other because they interfere with each other's pollination. I had cowpeas and chives 4 ft from each other and they weren't bothered, but they were not in the same bed.