For those with cats

[SPierce]

Help! We've got two cats in the house that really, really like to chew on plants! I'm trying to keep my seedlings safe from one cat in particular; I tried locking him out of a room with a warmer window, but, alas, he sits in front of the door all night and cries, because he can't get in. They aren't allowed in the basement, however it's very cold down there and I don't think the seedlings would like the temps.

Is there an easy way to keep them inside the house, and safe, without having to close off half the house in order to keep the cats out? I have some clear plastic saran wrap, and was wondering if putting them over the cardboard boxes I've got their pots in (4in with a neutral potting mix and some compost) would do double duty to help keep the temp warmer since I don't have a place to hang a lot, work a miniature greenhouse effect, and keep the cats away? Or is this a bad idea and I'll "suffocate" the plants?

thanks sorry for so many questions

[Kisal]

The plastic won't "suffocate" them, exactly, although it will raise the humidity and cut off air circulation to the extent that you may lose the plants to fungal infections.

Would it be possible for you to buy something like hardware cloth, or even chicken wire, and shape covers to fit the boxes? That's what I did. I suggest making such covers so they stand up high enough to allow your plants to grow large enough to transplant outdoors. For my location, that was about 8" to 10" tall. I just made the wire covers box-shaped and 12" high. I used length and width dimensions that allowed the boxes to fit completely over the trays my potted seedlings were in, so the wire cover actually rested right on the shelves.

Worked for me, and I had 5 cats at the time. I actually used 1" x 1/2" welded wire fabric, because I bought it by the roll to make cages for my wild "patients", so I always had plenty around. I also preferred it to flimsier wire mesh, because sometimes, my cats would sit right on top of the covers. (If that happens, I strongly recommend making a simple wood frame out of lightweight wood. I used quarter-round molding, because I happened to have a lot of scraps of it out in the garage. I faced the rounded side inward and stapled the wire to the flat sides. )

[SPierce]

The plastic won't "suffocate" them, exactly, although it will raise the humidity and cut off air circulation to the extent that you may lose the plants to fungal infections.

Would it be possible for you to buy something like hardware cloth, or even chicken wire, and shape covers to fit the boxes? That's what I did. I suggest making such covers so they stand up high enough to allow your plants to grow large enough to transplant outdoors. For my location, that was about 8" to 10" tall. I just made the wire covers box-shaped and 12" high. I used length and width dimensions that allowed the boxes to fit completely over the trays my potted seedlings were in, so the wire cover actually rested right on the shelves.

Worked for me, and I had 5 cats at the time. I actually used 1" x 1/2" welded wire fabric, because I bought it by the roll to make cages for my wild "patients", so I always had plenty around. I also preferred it to flimsier wire mesh, because sometimes, my cats would sit right on top of the covers. (If that happens, I strongly recommend making a simple wood frame out of lightweight wood. I used quarter-round molding, because I happened to have a lot of scraps of it out in the garage. I faced the rounded side inward and stapled the wire to the flat sides. )

Oohh, the wire-box is a wonderful idea- and the supply store nearby me has some! thank you

Now, I just have to figure out how to make the brat stop crying for the rest of the night! He's going absolutely nuts and won't stop. Been going for the last 4 hours.

[Kisal]

I tried to shut my cat Chloe out of my bedroom at night for a short time, just a few days. All through the night, she would repeatedly reach under the door with a forepaw, curl her toes and extended her claws to grab hold of the bottom of the door, then pull. I don't know how she managed it, but the darned door actually went "twang" ... over and over, all night long! By the morning of the 4th day, she had ripped up the bottom of the door so badly that I had to have the door replaced. It was a hollow-core interior door, and she literally shredded the thing.

[SPierce]

I tried to shut my cat Chloe out of my bedroom at night for a short time, just a few days. All through the night, she would repeatedly reach under the door with a forepaw, curl her toes and extended her claws to grab hold of the bottom of the door, then pull. I don't know how she managed it, but the darned door actually went "twang" ... over and over, all night long! By the morning of the 4th day, she had ripped up the bottom of the door so badly that I had to have the door replaced. It was a hollow-core interior door, and she literally shredded the thing.

Wow! Your cats a smart one! Jake just sits in front of the door, and meows! Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get any extra lights for my starts, so I've been trying to keep them by a window and watering them with warm water. right now, they're in the first floor bathroom (where they'll be crying, but we won't hear!) with the light on, to give them a little extra light. Gotta figure something out this weekend!

[Bobberman]

Window screens also work good! They sale those plastic square blocks that have square holes all around the sides. They come in colors and some people use them for books or stack them and put papers in them. They work will and are about 15 inches square and are cheap! The plastic usually black bread holders that they take bread ino stores are very good since they have 3 to4 inch square holes in them and are about 2 foot square and about 6 inches deep. They are nice for covers and are strong you ask a store if they have extras or damaged ones!!

[Kisal]

JMO, but I think window screening would block too much of the available light ... in my situation, it would, anyway. And the plastic crates would be too big for the space I have available. I grow my seedlings in my house, since I don't have a greenhouse. But perhaps the OP has more space available than I do.

On top of that, knowing my cats' propensity for mischief, they would have been sticking their paws through the holes and batting the poor plants to death.

[Yogas]

In the past, I've put a small shelf unit near my brightest window and attached plastic around the shelf except where it was flush with the window. I've also used cardboard boxes that I have opened up and put around the plants.

This year though I bought a small, indoor greenhouse. It's really just a shelf unit covered with plastic but it has a vent on the back and the front panel zips up for easy access. That is my best solution so far!

[SPierce]

Thank you everyone for your ideas and suggestions! I will come up with something this weekend to help protect them, so I can put them in a warmer room in the house! For now, since the sun came out, I've put them back in the front room by the window and closed the door. Hopefully they'll be OK in there until I can come up with a better cat and plant safe solution!

[hendi_alex]

I sit patiently and wait for the beasts to die. Our cats roam the yard in our rural setting. As both are 'fixed' they don't tend to roam very far out of the yard. I'm not one have cats and litter boxes inside the house, so inside is not an option. These are both rescue cats an have had quite a good life. They get spoken to and petted when we are outside, so get a fair amount of attention. However, these are the most ruthless killing machines. They kill most anything that moves, and just for the sheer pleasure of the kill, leaving the maimed or dead critter in the dirt after the thrill of the attack. Of course there is also the issue of and endless supply of 'land mines' that are placed all over the yard. They especially love to deposit little surprises in the loose soil of gardening areas. At least we do have a clean up committee of two dachshunds and a lab who excavate those caches of doggie treats. Then they want to jump up and lick me in the face. Yuk! And the wife is always complaining about the dogs gaining weight, yet they are fed so little. There is no controlling their outside the house menu.

So for me, this will be a much more friendly neighborhood when these two cats are serving as fertilizer for a favorite tree or shrub. That will represent an end to the multitude of dead birds, dead lizards, dead butterflies, dead grasshoppers, dead anything that moves. Please, please, please die today or if not today, at least by tomorrow. My God, these cats are just too healthy and too lethal. So here I sit, patiently waiting, impatiently waiting.

[SPierce]

I sit patiently and wait for the beasts to die. Our cats roam the yard in our rural setting. As both are 'fixed' they don't tend to roam very far out of the yard. I'm not one have cats and litter boxes inside the house, so inside is not an option. These are both rescue cats an have had quite a good life. They get spoken to and petted when we are outside, so get a fair amount of attention. However, these are the most ruthless killing machines. They kill most anything that moves, and just for the sheer pleasure of the kill, leaving the maimed or dead critter in the dirt after the thrill of the attack. Of course there is also the issue of and endless supply of 'land mines' that are placed all over the yard. They especially love to deposit little surprises in the loose soil of gardening areas. At least we do have a clean up committee of two dachshunds and a lab who excavate those caches of doggie treats. Then they want to jump up and lick me in the face. Yuk! And the wife is always complaining about the dogs gaining weight, yet they are fed so little. There is no controlling their outside the house menu.

So for me, this will be a much more friendly neighborhood when these two cats are serving as fertilizer for a favorite tree or shrub. That will represent an end to the multitude of dead birds, dead lizards, dead butterflies, dead grasshoppers, dead anything that moves. Please, please, please die today or if not today, at least by tomorrow. My God, these cats are just too healthy and too lethal. So here I sit, patiently waiting, impatiently waiting.

I hate to say it this way, and I really hope you're joking and just copying/pasting from somewhere, but I'm mildly offended at your hatred for cats and your blantent post. I love my cats, and wouldn't trade them for the world. The loyalty and companionship they give when I and my roommate are sick/feeling down/lonely/etc are second to none.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with your wild cats, I bet it's extremely frustrating, but I wouldn't wish death on any animal in existence. Everything has their place in the world, and that includes beasts and insects that, sometimes, can be a little annoying. Our cats are exclusively inside, and aren't allowed out. So I deal with Squirells and other digging critters outside, instead! I'll stick to a cat safe solution for both my plants and my cats while they're inside.

You have to remember that all animals, including cats, have "hunter" instincts and by leaving them outside, you're helping them develop those instincts, hence why they are leaving presents outside for you. It comes back on you leaving them out there- not them. If you aren't going to care for them and just wish them death, then I would recommend giving them to a farm or a place that will.

[Bobberman]

We have six out side cats and a few strays that want food! Every cat has a different personality and I love to watch them play!. Our inside dog is their master when he is outside. I had some trouble withj then getting inside my greenhouse but the water gun seemed to take care of that!
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The cats learn fast but still try to sneak when I am not looking! I would rather have cats than mice that eat all the sedlings in the garden! I usually dig some loose dig somewhere in the yard loose dirt or have a sand box and they go there. I have very little trouble with cats but if they wonder in my garden they get the water treatment and seem to just be fine with it and run up a tree or just look at you saying was I bad?!

[hendi_alex]

Hi SPierce,

I have no hatred for cats, just have no use for them as my personal pets . You refer to 'not taking care them' which I don't exactly understand. The cats get fed each day, they have a safe place to stay on the deck when they don't wish to be around the dogs, they get spoken to and petted whenever we are outside or on the deck. These cats have a great life. As far as 'taking care of cats' I would consider keeping cats exclusively inside to be absolutely unnatural and a terrible thing to do to a cat or dog. Animals ARE ANIMALS. They are not people and are not children. IMO they should be outside whenever possible.

I view critters more from a naturalists point of view. I love and appreciate all animals, but don't feel a need to own, dominate, manipulate, or otherwise affect their behavior by creating some kind of artificial dependence upon a human. That said, people obviously benefit from their interaction with pets and under the best of circumstances the pets do o.k. as well. I'm glad that you enjoy your cats, and I'm also glad that you confine them to inside the house, thereby protecting local wildlife. Though no favor to the cats, it is most responsible given the devastating effect that the feral cat population is having on animals in their domain.

BTW our cats do live on a farm, with 100 year old barn and lots of space on our 130 acres which has about 5 acres fenced around the house. I will be glad when they no longer grace our presence. Never again will I subject our local wildlife to the killer instincts of a domestic cat.

[applestar]

Oh shoot, I guess I should have posted this earlier when I was thinking it, but my thoughts hadn't gel'd yet.

I wanted to say to Hendi_Alex that even though the first statement in the first post was rather harsh-sounding, I thought his post was well written and eloquent. His second post explains his position more, but I feel I "got it" the first time.

I have two cats.

[SPierce]

Hi SPierce,

I have no hatred for cats, just have no use for them as my personal pets . You refer to 'not taking care them' which I don't exactly understand. The cats get fed each day, they have a safe place to stay on the deck when they don't wish to be around the dogs, they get spoken to and petted whenever we are outside or on the deck. These cats have a great life. As far as 'taking care of cats' I would consider keeping cats exclusively inside to be absolutely unnatural and a terrible thing to do to a cat or dog. Animals ARE ANIMALS. They are not people and are not children. IMO they should be outside whenever possible.

I view critters more from a naturalists point of view. I love and appreciate all animals, but don't feel a need to own, dominate, manipulate, or otherwise affect their behavior by creating some kind of artificial dependence upon a human. That said, people obviously benefit from their interaction with pets and under the best of circumstances the pets do o.k. as well. I'm glad that you enjoy your cats, and I'm also glad that you confine them to inside the house, thereby protecting local wildlife. Though no favor to the cats, it is most responsible given the devastating effect that the feral cat population is having on animals in their domain.

BTW our cats do live on a farm, with 100 year old barn and lots of space on our 130 acres which has about 5 acres fenced around the house. I will be glad when they no longer grace our presence. Never again will I subject our local wildlife to the killer instincts of a domestic cat.

I understand your POV- we had outdoor cats at my grandparents farm as well, but I just saw you wishing death upon an animal and was totally at it this morning, as I was just trying to figure out a way to protect my seedling starts from our two cats and all of a sudden your post came up in it. I almost didn't respond and let it go, but felt a compelling need to say something; I don't want to see any animal hurt or killed for no reason. I know outdoor cats are a hinderance to local wildlife- especially since our neighbors have 3 cats that wander around our yard. Thankfully I haven't had any garden issues with them yet. However, that's another debate in and of itself that can probably go on forever

[hendi_alex]

Meet our cat family.

Slim. Easily our second best cat ever. Sleek, strong, affectionate, a killing machine.

[img]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2797901347_f5c95581b8_o.jpg[/img]

KC (Kirby's Kitty) Aloof, disdainful, distant, barely tolerant, fat, lazy, not much threat any longer.

[img]https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5641053742_c8fa07c41d_o.jpg[/img]

And the dog family.
Kirby, 15 and counting. Our second dachshund. Much to my dismay, she thinks that she is a person and that we are her servants.
[img]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3379567288_fdfd81c24e_o.jpg[/img]


Miss Cleo. A true badger killer. Affectionate but independent.
[img]https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3598/3379567876_a4b7126fb8_o.jpg[/img]

Lizzie. Our second yellow lab. Loving, unruly, too little training from me.
[img]https://farm6.static.flickr.com/5107/5640483109_afcda62e5d_o.jpg[/img]

If up to me, we would only have one or two outside dogs (mostly for security), but I get no vote on the mostly inside dachshunds. Until the last couple of years of wildlife killings, have had no vote on the cats either.

[hendi_alex]

"I was just trying to figure out a way to protect my seedling starts from our two cats and all of a sudden your post came up in it."

For me the connection had to do with destructive behavior of pets. Obviously, just like everything, pet ownership comes with a set of positives and negatives. Also most all decisions represent some kind of compromise between the best interest of the animal and the best interest of some other factor. Since being steward of our 130 acres is my greatest obligation, and since I'm not willing to have cats live inside the house, not having cats for pets would represent the only reasonable choice. That is as long as the wife if in agreement with such a decision! If the wife insists on having a cat or two, then we will continue with our past practice of encouraging the animals to stay on our property and in discouraging their habit of killing so many creatures. As previous posters have noted however, controlling a cats behavior while giving it a degree of freedom at the same time, can be quite a challenge.

[SPierce]

"I was just trying to figure out a way to protect my seedling starts from our two cats and all of a sudden your post came up in it."

For me the connection had to do with destructive behavior of pets. Obviously, just like everything, pet ownership comes with a set of positives and negatives. Also most all decisions represent some kind of compromise between the best interest of the animal and the best interest of some other factor. Since being steward of our 130 acres is my greatest obligation, and since I'm not willing to have cats live inside the house, not having cats for pets would represent the only reasonable choice. That is as long as the wife if in agreement with such a decision! If the wife insists on having a cat or two, then we will continue with our past practice of encouraging the animals to stay on our property and in discouraging their habit of killing so many creatures. As previous posters have noted however, controlling a cats behavior while giving it a degree of freedom at the same time, can be quite a challenge.

I wish I could see your pics- but alas, I'm at work and can't see them here! I will look when I get home. Out of curiousity, since you said the wildlife killings were a new occurance- was there something that triggered them to start doing so? Maybe that can be found and prevented so they stop. Of course, if you don't want cats as pets, or companions around the property, than that is your right and perhaps some steps can be taken so no others come around?

I do agree that everything has positives and negatives, and as much as I love my veggie starts (which I have locked in the front room at the moment) I also love my cats and guinea pigs, and can't imagine not having either around the house. Hopefully there can be a happy medium in the middle, some day, in which the local wildlife, cats, and our veggie plants can live in happy harmony. Where there are no negative feelings one way or another.

However, when it comes right down to it- I can always grow from seed and plant another veggie plant. If it's something that I spent a lot of time on, I might be sad, but I could also loose that plant to an SVB, Aphids, or a wandering deer;' so even if the damage isn't from a cat, or a dog, I can loose it. It's a risk all gardners take; It's also the same risk as having a cat go after my plants, though cat damage can be mostly prevented. I've got a fence around my garden (granted, it isn't very large) that prevents the neighbors cats from bothering it. However, it doesn't keep out the smaller mice and other digger type things that like to dig up my plants and ruined my cantaloupe plants last year.

I'll be absolutely heartbroken if I loose the companionship of our two cats- that's something that can never be replaced.

[cynthia_h]

SPierce: have you tried extra-tall baby gates to keep the cats out of the rooms with the seedlings? I know that cats can jump right over regular baby gates--mine do! But extra-tall might discourage them, depending on their...ah...physiques. A 28-lb Maine Coon who basically likes to lie around and rule his domain is less likely to go over an extra-tall than, say, a 10-lb calico whose favorite game is Midnight ThunderPaws.

I don't know which kind(s) you have.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[SPierce]

SPierce: have you tried extra-tall baby gates to keep the cats out of the rooms with the seedlings? I know that cats can jump right over regular baby gates--mine do! But extra-tall might discourage them, depending on their...ah...physiques. A 28-lb Maine Coon who basically likes to lie around and rule his domain is less likely to go over an extra-tall than, say, a 10-lb calico whose favorite game is Midnight ThunderPaws.

I don't know which kind(s) you have.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

I have one of each One lazy bum who can't jump, and another one who's so agile he pops up everywhere!

In other good news, my seedlings are starting to develop true leaves! I'm so excited and happy

[cynthia_h]

[url=https://www.tallbabystuff.com/extra-tall-baby-gates.html]Here's[/url] a survey of tall baby gates currently on the market. These are for parents of taller babies, but you might have an idea of the Jumper's abilities!

Cynthia

[SPierce]

[url=https://www.tallbabystuff.com/extra-tall-baby-gates.html]Here's[/url] a survey of tall baby gates currently on the market. These are for parents of taller babies, but you might have an idea of the Jumper's abilities!

Cynthia

thank you ive got an agile boy, though. he can jump about 6 feet high if he really wanted too,

[Bobberman]

Whether you like cats dogs or not our concern here is how they effect our garden and house plants! The worse & best thing about cats is they cover their poop and this causes poblems with young seedlings and ruins a new garden!. Actuarlly their urine is good for the garden! Cats and dogs are wild animals and have to be resricted from those areas by us the thinkers! Cats will play and the plants will pay! Itoo do not like to see dead birds and butterflies but that is the nature of the cat!..
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A scorpian ask a fox to take him across the river but the fox said you will bite me and the scorpion said he would not so the fox put the scorpion on his back and started across the river but then the scorpion stung the fox and the fox said why did you bite me and the scorpion said that is my nature!

[Kisal]

Every cat I've ever owned could have easily leapt over the tall gates I have now to confine my jumping dogs. Interestingly, even though each gate has a "small animal door" at the bottom, the cat I had when I got these dogs and installed the gates preferred to walk right between the bars.

[cynthia_h]

I did find [url=https://www.petedge.com/product/AKC-Powder-Coated-Panel-Gate-within-Gate/51742.uts]this product[/url] at Pet Edge, but 1) its price and 2) its "non-stand-alone" quality held me back.

It *does* look fairly cat-proof to me, though; I've had some very athletic cats, but don't think any of them would have bothered to jump over a 6-foot barrier to get at plants. They might have jumped up TO a 6-foot bookshelf to have a lordly perch, but just to end up on the floor again...probably wouldn't have motivated any of them.

Cynthia

[Kisal]

My cats would have jumped a 6' gate, just to get at the window sills, which of course, was also where I kept some of my plants. I didn't mind them getting at the window sills, but I would have if they were destroying my seedlings in the process.

I think that gate panel is an option that can be purchased for a dog kennel ... or so the instructions on the pdf seem to indicate. It certainly wouldn't fit in any of my doorways, which for my interior doors, mostly measure about 34".

[applestar]

FWIW -- I have one room that is off limits to my cats. There is a pressure mounted metal baby gate with hinged door approximately 32"H.

Except for about three occasions in the last three years, the kitties have not entered the room. They were firmly removed from the room and body blocked if they ever showed the least bit of interest -- I don't believe cats cannot be trained, and I treat them as though they are being/are trained. (One of them is very vocal. If she is told off, she always meows back -- which we've variously interpreted as "I wasn't doing anything...." "Oh, alright, nothin' interesting in there anyway." "What?" )

They have access to other sunny windows, they have pots of wheat and oat grass to eat as well as occasional frozen green beans, lettuce, carrots, zucchini, squash, and cucumbers for treats, and we save part of corn on the cob for them and hold the cob for them while they gnaw the kernels off.

[SPierce]

So far, so good on the closed door downstairs. They must not mind that room being closed off as much as my regular room upstairs. Now, here's hoping we get some sunshine through that darn window so that my tomato seedlings can grow their true leaves! My zucc's are already well on their way.

[lily51]

Slim looks like our outdoors/greenhouse cat, Midnite. Midnite is very respectful of plants, but not so much warm trays of seedlings trying to sprout. She likes to use them as a bed. Covered those trays with the plastic dome-lids until the plants got up and going, and that seemed to work.
Now she's back to sleeping on the potting bench, and until I moved it outside, the ladder at the back of the greenhouse where all the heat collects.