For a long time, I have debated the value of up potting seedlings as they grow. I simply couldn't see the value of the practice if the seed is planted in a container large enough to furnish all the needs of the seedling for about eight weeks.
Six weeks ago, I planted seed in 1/2" of soil in a flat. I also planted the same seed variety from the same seed pack in a six cell pack. I used the same soil for germinating (low quality soil with no fertilizer) in both containers. All conditions were identical except the containers. The seed in both containers germinated in four days under lights.
After two weeks of growth, I up potted four seedlings from the flat to 4" square containers. I was always concerned about gently transferring seedlings as I up potted in the past. In this instance, I handled the seedlings roughly on purpose by pulling them straight out of the soil in the flat. I could hear the tender roots breaking as I pulled them.
I have continued growing the seedlings for six weeks taking photos every Friday. I added a mild solution of Miracle Grow fertilizer by bottom watering at four weeks.
The following photo taken today at week six shows the up potted seedlings are almost double in size, larger leaves, better color, and the main stems are almost double the size of the seedlings in the six packs.
I will continue growing the seedlings to observe changes as they grow. I plan on sacrificing two of the seedlings in the six pack to see if they are root bound. I don't think they are, but I can't know without checking. I believe damage to the roots when up potting causing more fibrous growth is the probable cause of the advanced growth of the up potted plants. It may be the fact that the additional soil simply retained more of the nutrients they were given.
I'm open to any thoughts you may have which may account for the improved growth of the up potted seedlings.
click to enlarge
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2010%20Garden/6week.jpg[/img]
Ted
Hypothesis 1-- unperturbed seedlings concentrate on developing a single taproot which is a trade off between reaching deep groundwater for late season survival vs early season nutrient uptake. The damaged root from up potting forms many laterals which reach more soil/nutrients.
This is supported by early work
https://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch26.html
Hypothesis 2--Larger volume pots may provide a more stable nutrient environment.
Hypothesis 3-- The up-potted plants may have been placed deeper in the soil, allowing more root formation from the base of the plant and/or more stable nutrient environment for the upper roots (surface drying had less effect on moisture/nutrients)
Hypothesis 4--magic, supreme being, aliens, and or psychic powers.
This is supported by early work
https://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglibrary/010137veg.roots/010137ch26.html
Hypothesis 2--Larger volume pots may provide a more stable nutrient environment.
Hypothesis 3-- The up-potted plants may have been placed deeper in the soil, allowing more root formation from the base of the plant and/or more stable nutrient environment for the upper roots (surface drying had less effect on moisture/nutrients)
Hypothesis 4--magic, supreme being, aliens, and or psychic powers.
TZ
You can drop hypo number three. Soil depth planting was identical. I did everything I could to insure everything was identical.
I can accept hypo number four. It is especially reasonable since I did see a white virgin goat in the neighborhood the day after I planted the seed.
(have you seen Duh_Vincie lately? I've missed his posts and photos a lot)
Ted
You can drop hypo number three. Soil depth planting was identical. I did everything I could to insure everything was identical.
I can accept hypo number four. It is especially reasonable since I did see a white virgin goat in the neighborhood the day after I planted the seed.
(have you seen Duh_Vincie lately? I've missed his posts and photos a lot)
Ted
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rainbowgardener
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The up-potted ones are taller, because they are standing on a riser? 
Just kidding!
I don't know the answer, but I believe it works. All my tomato seedlings are transplanted twice before they go in the ground, once from being crowded in the little cells to one per cell and once from the cell to the three inch pot (and last year because I started them earlier, some got a third transfer to a 6" pot). I handle them gently (root hairs likely still are disturbed a bit, but I'm not yanking them out) and I do plant deeper each time.
My observation is that at each move, the plants appear to go "Ahhh" and immediately spread out into their new digs... Within just 2-3 days they are visibly larger than their fellows that haven't been moved yet (with so many little plants to take care of the transplanting is a process that goes on for awhile).
This works even though the first move takes them from the heating pad used for germination, to an unheated cell....
Just kidding!I don't know the answer, but I believe it works. All my tomato seedlings are transplanted twice before they go in the ground, once from being crowded in the little cells to one per cell and once from the cell to the three inch pot (and last year because I started them earlier, some got a third transfer to a 6" pot). I handle them gently (root hairs likely still are disturbed a bit, but I'm not yanking them out) and I do plant deeper each time.
My observation is that at each move, the plants appear to go "Ahhh" and immediately spread out into their new digs... Within just 2-3 days they are visibly larger than their fellows that haven't been moved yet (with so many little plants to take care of the transplanting is a process that goes on for awhile).
This works even though the first move takes them from the heating pad used for germination, to an unheated cell....
RBG,
I was hoping no one would notice, but my tomato seedling riser also serves as a mini stage for a touring version of "GLEE" the rest of the week.
I think you are right about the "AAGH" factor in up potting. The plants do seem to grow larger, faster simply because of up potting. That did surprise me because I am accustomed to plants requiring recovery time after severe changes in their environment. Tomato plants seem to react well to severe changes. Now I'm trying to decide if the goal of growing an eight week old seedling should be to grow it as large as possible in eight weeks and then place the seedlings in the garden for continued growth and production or restrain the growth of the plant to an optimum height and concentrate growth on the roots at some point. If I can grow a very tall seedling in eight weeks, but I only really need a medium height plant for planting in the garden, can I do that in six weeks instead of eight. I'm just experimenting by altering conditions and looking at the results.
Ted
I was hoping no one would notice, but my tomato seedling riser also serves as a mini stage for a touring version of "GLEE" the rest of the week.
I think you are right about the "AAGH" factor in up potting. The plants do seem to grow larger, faster simply because of up potting. That did surprise me because I am accustomed to plants requiring recovery time after severe changes in their environment. Tomato plants seem to react well to severe changes. Now I'm trying to decide if the goal of growing an eight week old seedling should be to grow it as large as possible in eight weeks and then place the seedlings in the garden for continued growth and production or restrain the growth of the plant to an optimum height and concentrate growth on the roots at some point. If I can grow a very tall seedling in eight weeks, but I only really need a medium height plant for planting in the garden, can I do that in six weeks instead of eight. I'm just experimenting by altering conditions and looking at the results.
Ted
Glee must be doing Little Shop of Horrors?????
I'll try experimenting with white doves this year for my dwarf and cherry varieties (and windobox herb garden) as I think that a goat might be overkill. The doves are hard to find but there are a couple of ritzy weddings between now and then so I ordered a big landing net and some bird seed from Acme.
I'll try experimenting with white doves this year for my dwarf and cherry varieties (and windobox herb garden) as I think that a goat might be overkill. The doves are hard to find but there are a couple of ritzy weddings between now and then so I ordered a big landing net and some bird seed from Acme.
TZ,
I started the seeds in this effort to satisfy my curiosity, in poor soil. It has almost no nutritional value and it is apparent in some leaf yellowing. I've started another to see what good germinating soil will do.
I planted another six pack yesterday using a generic "ten packs for a dollar" beef steak variety. I planted the seed in three cells using using Miracle Grow seed starting soil with nutrients and three cells with Fertilome brand transplant soil. The fertilome brand includes bone meal and kelp meal and is really intended to receive transplants. I love the texture of the fertilome product because it has a consistent fibrous texture, while most soils of this type have lots of little sticks in them.
I'm curious if germinating soils which include nutrients will harm the newly germinated seedlings or if it will simply speed up the growth.
I'm not trying to make any huge scientific discoveries. I'm just using the winter when my garden won't grow to answer some questions I have been curious about. Beep Beep
Ted
I started the seeds in this effort to satisfy my curiosity, in poor soil. It has almost no nutritional value and it is apparent in some leaf yellowing. I've started another to see what good germinating soil will do.
I planted another six pack yesterday using a generic "ten packs for a dollar" beef steak variety. I planted the seed in three cells using using Miracle Grow seed starting soil with nutrients and three cells with Fertilome brand transplant soil. The fertilome brand includes bone meal and kelp meal and is really intended to receive transplants. I love the texture of the fertilome product because it has a consistent fibrous texture, while most soils of this type have lots of little sticks in them.
I'm curious if germinating soils which include nutrients will harm the newly germinated seedlings or if it will simply speed up the growth.
I'm not trying to make any huge scientific discoveries. I'm just using the winter when my garden won't grow to answer some questions I have been curious about. Beep Beep
Ted
It would be interesting to see what happens if you plant in both a 6-pack and in 3" pots and then pull and replant half of each back into their pots. That would tell you the effect of both soil volume and root damage.
I've heard the rumor of fertilizer burn from the nutrient added potting mixes but don't know if its true. Some of them have time release pellets so the seedling is in the ground long before the bulk of the nutrients are released. Full strength mushrom compost would probably burn seedlings because of the high levels of residual fertilizer in it, but I read that a lot of the commercial MC is diluted.
Although I haven't tried that many potting mixes, the best growth I have seen is from Promix BX, which looks like junk because of the twigs etc in it. The worst was from some Scotts 6-9 month time release that was wet, compacted and had chunks of mud in it. My back went out at the store lifting the bag and put me in bed for over a week, so another reason I don't like the stuff. That's what I get for being cheap and buying it on sale at the dollar store.
I've heard the rumor of fertilizer burn from the nutrient added potting mixes but don't know if its true. Some of them have time release pellets so the seedling is in the ground long before the bulk of the nutrients are released. Full strength mushrom compost would probably burn seedlings because of the high levels of residual fertilizer in it, but I read that a lot of the commercial MC is diluted.
Although I haven't tried that many potting mixes, the best growth I have seen is from Promix BX, which looks like junk because of the twigs etc in it. The worst was from some Scotts 6-9 month time release that was wet, compacted and had chunks of mud in it. My back went out at the store lifting the bag and put me in bed for over a week, so another reason I don't like the stuff. That's what I get for being cheap and buying it on sale at the dollar store.
TZ,
I've checked every garden center within a fifty mile radius and can't find any promix. Most of them have never heard of it. I don't want to order it on the internet because shipping costs more than the product.
I started the procedure you suggested today by removing the seedlings from one side of the six pack of seedlings and then replacing them. I made sure I disturbed the roots significantly before replacing them. One seedling was so damaged, I had to add soil around it to prop it up. They were not root bound in any way. I made sure the tap root was either broken or changed dramatically. It will be interesting to see if the plants on one side of the six pack grow different from the plants on the other side one week from today.
Ted
I've checked every garden center within a fifty mile radius and can't find any promix. Most of them have never heard of it. I don't want to order it on the internet because shipping costs more than the product.
I started the procedure you suggested today by removing the seedlings from one side of the six pack of seedlings and then replacing them. I made sure I disturbed the roots significantly before replacing them. One seedling was so damaged, I had to add soil around it to prop it up. They were not root bound in any way. I made sure the tap root was either broken or changed dramatically. It will be interesting to see if the plants on one side of the six pack grow different from the plants on the other side one week from today.
Ted
It isn't just about disturbing the roots (I do my darndest not to do that) but rather giving them room to develope a better (bigger) root systems. Tomatoes will develope roots all along the stem so when you plant them deeper, that part of the main stem puts out more roots (you can plant a branch and it will become the main stem for a new plant - no kidding).
The goal isn't to have a larger plant (say taller) but a healthy plant with roots to match good deal of foliage. Good roots mean good intake of nutrients.
A friend offered me a tomato one year (well, 2) and one was still in a 2" peat pot. This plant was about 18-20" tall and I thought it had to be root bound. I was shocked to find it had virtually no roots at all. Because it came from a friend, I gave it a good deep pot, buried it nearly to the bottom of the container and in two months, we were eating very delicious tomatoes.
Try your local garden center, farm supply or hardware store for pro-mix . I usually mix it with compost (2:1 promix:compost) and tomatoes love that.
The goal isn't to have a larger plant (say taller) but a healthy plant with roots to match good deal of foliage. Good roots mean good intake of nutrients.
A friend offered me a tomato one year (well, 2) and one was still in a 2" peat pot. This plant was about 18-20" tall and I thought it had to be root bound. I was shocked to find it had virtually no roots at all. Because it came from a friend, I gave it a good deep pot, buried it nearly to the bottom of the container and in two months, we were eating very delicious tomatoes.
Try your local garden center, farm supply or hardware store for pro-mix . I usually mix it with compost (2:1 promix:compost) and tomatoes love that.
gardenvt,
I've alrways had the same philosophy as you about planting deep and encourageing them to grow roots from the stem. I still plant that way in the garden and pots. Some believe newly germinated seeds grow and become healthier if the original tap root is disturbed causing the seedling to produce more fibrous roots instead of a main tap root. The belief is centered on the possibility that increasing the fibrous roots improves the uptake of water and nutrients. My experiment is designed to demonstrate for me if the belief is true. Put simply, if the plants with the disturbed roots outperform the plants with undisturbed roots, I should have my snswer. All of the growing conditions for the seedlings are the same except for disturbing the roots of some.
I've checked every garden center and feed store withing fifty miles of my house for promix. I've stopped at garden centers I see as we travel. None have had promix and most don't even know what it is.
Welcome to the forum! We look forward to your future input.
Ted
I've alrways had the same philosophy as you about planting deep and encourageing them to grow roots from the stem. I still plant that way in the garden and pots. Some believe newly germinated seeds grow and become healthier if the original tap root is disturbed causing the seedling to produce more fibrous roots instead of a main tap root. The belief is centered on the possibility that increasing the fibrous roots improves the uptake of water and nutrients. My experiment is designed to demonstrate for me if the belief is true. Put simply, if the plants with the disturbed roots outperform the plants with undisturbed roots, I should have my snswer. All of the growing conditions for the seedlings are the same except for disturbing the roots of some.
I've checked every garden center and feed store withing fifty miles of my house for promix. I've stopped at garden centers I see as we travel. None have had promix and most don't even know what it is.
Welcome to the forum! We look forward to your future input.
Ted
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applestar
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I'm looking forward to your results. 
Concentrate on garden centers with landscaping supply business that cater to smaller garden nursery busisesses. I have to go to a Co-op Growers Association for Pro-Mix Ultimate Organic but I can find regular Pro-Mix at 2 or 3 other stores as well.
Even then, around here, most garden centers are in the "Holiday Mode" right now, and things like potting soil have been put away in the back of the warehouse.
For you in Texas, I would think seed starting season will be starting up right after the holidays though, so it may be too late for your experiment, but you'll be able to find it then.
Concentrate on garden centers with landscaping supply business that cater to smaller garden nursery busisesses. I have to go to a Co-op Growers Association for Pro-Mix Ultimate Organic but I can find regular Pro-Mix at 2 or 3 other stores as well.
Even then, around here, most garden centers are in the "Holiday Mode" right now, and things like potting soil have been put away in the back of the warehouse.
For you in Texas, I would think seed starting season will be starting up right after the holidays though, so it may be too late for your experiment, but you'll be able to find it then.
D,
The up potted plants did so well that I cut them off yesterday and replanted them as short cuttings. I'm hoping to be able to plant them out along with my germinated seedlings in March. I did finally up pot the plants still in the cells to see if it would improve them. It did, and they have also become more vigorous.
At the same time, I was messing with the up potting, I was trying a few different things simply to determine the effects. I was curious about applying fertilizer to seedlings at different stages of growth and if a folliar or root application was better. I then wanted to know if some of the products designed to cause the follier application to stick would effect the leaves in other ways.
Very dilute solutions of fertilizer (miracle grow) at about three weeks did improved the growth rate and it corrected some mineral deficiencies which were becoming apparent in the leaves. The root application seemed to have the quickest and best effect.
The product I used to attempt to assist the fertilizer in the follier application had an interesting effect. The foliage I applied it to developed a very rugose appearance with very bumpy or wrinkled leaves. Leaves which have developed since the application also appear with the rugose effect.
It has been an interesting winter.
Ted
The up potted plants did so well that I cut them off yesterday and replanted them as short cuttings. I'm hoping to be able to plant them out along with my germinated seedlings in March. I did finally up pot the plants still in the cells to see if it would improve them. It did, and they have also become more vigorous.
At the same time, I was messing with the up potting, I was trying a few different things simply to determine the effects. I was curious about applying fertilizer to seedlings at different stages of growth and if a folliar or root application was better. I then wanted to know if some of the products designed to cause the follier application to stick would effect the leaves in other ways.
Very dilute solutions of fertilizer (miracle grow) at about three weeks did improved the growth rate and it corrected some mineral deficiencies which were becoming apparent in the leaves. The root application seemed to have the quickest and best effect.
The product I used to attempt to assist the fertilizer in the follier application had an interesting effect. The foliage I applied it to developed a very rugose appearance with very bumpy or wrinkled leaves. Leaves which have developed since the application also appear with the rugose effect.
It has been an interesting winter.
Ted
Ted, this is a great experiment!
Part of me wishes I'd found it sooner but I'm glad I didn't since I'd be in constant anticipation of the outcome!
I've wanted to do an experiment like this all year, but didn't have the time or else forgot.
Anyway, I grow all of my plants in 72 cell trays because I only have one light and like a lot of plants
. However, I know that by the time I plant them out, they are root bound and only about 4 or 5 in. high. The peppers were even smaller.
If you've noticed my postings about wanting a greenhouse for seed-starting, than you how I'd like to be able to up-pot LOTS of plants (without the increase in electric bill that comes with more lights)
I'd been wondering just how much bigger the seedlings would get by being up-potted and you certainly answered that question.
Now, I do have a few more questions and I'm wondering if anyone can lend their experiences with them.
1. Did plating larger, up-potted tomatoes vs. smaller, cell-grown tomatoes really make much difference? That is, did the bigger ones produce earlier and more overall, or did the small ones catch up (as different sized plants oftentimes do) and produce the same?
You'll have to continue this experiment, Ted, when you plant your garden and let us (me) know
.
2. Is there a difference in size between plants planted in a smaller cell and then up-potted and plants that were just planted in the bigger pot to begin with?
3. All of the above....but for peppers! I noticed that my pepper plants went into the ground fairly small (3 or 4 in.) and occasionally root-bound. last year and while they did put out a good harvest, I can't help but think that they could have done better.
As peppers seem to be a little slower growing and less vigorous than tomatoes, I'm wondering if up-potting them would yield as noticeable results as with the tomatoes?
Keep us posted with the experiment!
Part of me wishes I'd found it sooner but I'm glad I didn't since I'd be in constant anticipation of the outcome!
I've wanted to do an experiment like this all year, but didn't have the time or else forgot.
Anyway, I grow all of my plants in 72 cell trays because I only have one light and like a lot of plants
. However, I know that by the time I plant them out, they are root bound and only about 4 or 5 in. high. The peppers were even smaller.If you've noticed my postings about wanting a greenhouse for seed-starting, than you how I'd like to be able to up-pot LOTS of plants (without the increase in electric bill that comes with more lights)
I'd been wondering just how much bigger the seedlings would get by being up-potted and you certainly answered that question.
Now, I do have a few more questions and I'm wondering if anyone can lend their experiences with them.
1. Did plating larger, up-potted tomatoes vs. smaller, cell-grown tomatoes really make much difference? That is, did the bigger ones produce earlier and more overall, or did the small ones catch up (as different sized plants oftentimes do) and produce the same?
You'll have to continue this experiment, Ted, when you plant your garden and let us (me) know
.2. Is there a difference in size between plants planted in a smaller cell and then up-potted and plants that were just planted in the bigger pot to begin with?
3. All of the above....but for peppers! I noticed that my pepper plants went into the ground fairly small (3 or 4 in.) and occasionally root-bound. last year and while they did put out a good harvest, I can't help but think that they could have done better.
As peppers seem to be a little slower growing and less vigorous than tomatoes, I'm wondering if up-potting them would yield as noticeable results as with the tomatoes?
Keep us posted with the experiment
!I mass sow seeds in plastic to-go restaurant trays. Once they get 2-3" tall, I re-pot them, last year into 3" and 2" containers, burying them to their bottom leaves. In six weeks time, they are plenty large enough to transplant.
For a potting mix, I love Ferti-lome Ultimate. It's not real easy to find, but not impossible.
Mike
For a potting mix, I love Ferti-lome Ultimate. It's not real easy to find, but not impossible.
Mike
Garden5,
This little inquiry is over. I think it answered the questions I was curious about. For me, it demonstrated plant growth is accelerated by up potting at an early stage with no other changes to the environment. Equally important, it demonstrated plant growth could be retarded by not up potting. The information gained from the second question allows me to plant seed as early as I choose, nurse the seedlings through the cotyledon stage insuring good germination; and start a rapid growth phase by up potting when I choose. I'm currently growing my spring garden in thirty six cell flats which are 3 1/2" deep. I don't plan on up potting unless I see growth retardation greater than I want. The up potted plants grew almost double the rate of the non up potted plants. The higher growth rate produced taller plants with stems that possibly will not with stand our spring winds as well as the shorter, sturdier; non up potted plants.
Many people have commented in the past their observations that when short, sturdy plants are planted in the garden at the same time as taller plants; the short plants quickly catch up. I'm going to make that comparison in my spring garden by up potting a few plants before planting them out in the garden.
I also learned that tomato plants are tough little plants with a built in determination to ignore abuse and simply grow. I purposely abused the plants to see how they would react. They always seemed to ignore my efforts and keep growing.
Ted
This little inquiry is over. I think it answered the questions I was curious about. For me, it demonstrated plant growth is accelerated by up potting at an early stage with no other changes to the environment. Equally important, it demonstrated plant growth could be retarded by not up potting. The information gained from the second question allows me to plant seed as early as I choose, nurse the seedlings through the cotyledon stage insuring good germination; and start a rapid growth phase by up potting when I choose. I'm currently growing my spring garden in thirty six cell flats which are 3 1/2" deep. I don't plan on up potting unless I see growth retardation greater than I want. The up potted plants grew almost double the rate of the non up potted plants. The higher growth rate produced taller plants with stems that possibly will not with stand our spring winds as well as the shorter, sturdier; non up potted plants.
Many people have commented in the past their observations that when short, sturdy plants are planted in the garden at the same time as taller plants; the short plants quickly catch up. I'm going to make that comparison in my spring garden by up potting a few plants before planting them out in the garden.
I also learned that tomato plants are tough little plants with a built in determination to ignore abuse and simply grow. I purposely abused the plants to see how they would react. They always seemed to ignore my efforts and keep growing.
Ted
I want to make sure I understand one concept here. Would it be better for starting seeds in your estimation to start in a small pot then transplant or would it be better to start in the larger pot without transplanting? I think these are all cool experiments.
I would like to know because in the past I only have one year seed starting experience. Frankly I think last year I started too soon and in peat pellets which were too small. This year I have decided to try to start fewer plants (primarily peppers and tomatoes) in larger pots to start with. I am thinking of starting things out in 3 inch peat pots (then removing the peat pot upon transplanting because the roots never seem to make it through them).
I would appreciate any help.
I would like to know because in the past I only have one year seed starting experience. Frankly I think last year I started too soon and in peat pellets which were too small. This year I have decided to try to start fewer plants (primarily peppers and tomatoes) in larger pots to start with. I am thinking of starting things out in 3 inch peat pots (then removing the peat pot upon transplanting because the roots never seem to make it through them).
I would appreciate any help.
I think you get the most consistent, good results by germinating in small containers in high quality, sterile soil; about eight weeks before you plan on planting out in the garden. The newly germinated seedling should be up potted to a larger container after they develop their first true leaves. I don't recommend the use of peat pots for germinating, but some people get good results with them.
I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking what I do is the right way. I believe it works for me because I'm interested in germinating many varieties at the same time. I want to delay development and growth of the germinated seedlings until I have good germination of all the varieties. If I have about four weeks left after all varieties have germinated, I will probably not up pot. If I only have three weeks or two weeks left before plant out, I probably will up pot to accelerate growth. My goal is to have seedlings about 8" tall with heavy foliage when I plant them out.
I'm still new at starting from seed and just enjoy trying different things.
Good luck.
Ted
I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking what I do is the right way. I believe it works for me because I'm interested in germinating many varieties at the same time. I want to delay development and growth of the germinated seedlings until I have good germination of all the varieties. If I have about four weeks left after all varieties have germinated, I will probably not up pot. If I only have three weeks or two weeks left before plant out, I probably will up pot to accelerate growth. My goal is to have seedlings about 8" tall with heavy foliage when I plant them out.
I'm still new at starting from seed and just enjoy trying different things.
Good luck.
Ted
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rainbowgardener
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I germinate seeds in the little cells and then up pot them. There are a lot of reasons for this, including that I am germinating a lot of seeds. I start most of them on a heat pad because except for the cold weather crops, they germinate a lot better that way. But I refuse to run more than two heat pads, so the little seedlings have to come off the heat pads as soon as they have true leaves, to make room for more seeds to be sprouted. So everything has to be really crowded at first, to get all those seeds germinated.
I don't use peat pots, for sprouting or growing. Most of my seedlings stay under the lights for two months, some a little more, some a little less. They sit in trays and are watered from the bottom, by pouring water in the tray. Peat pots get all moldy sitting in water like that. They tend to hold too much water in which can ruin the seedlings and if they finally start drying out, they wick water away from the plants. You are better off using plastic drink cups or plastic pots.
I don't use peat pots, for sprouting or growing. Most of my seedlings stay under the lights for two months, some a little more, some a little less. They sit in trays and are watered from the bottom, by pouring water in the tray. Peat pots get all moldy sitting in water like that. They tend to hold too much water in which can ruin the seedlings and if they finally start drying out, they wick water away from the plants. You are better off using plastic drink cups or plastic pots.
That is a really interesting idea! I like the concept of using small plastic cups. I think in the past I have had problems with water retention issues. Of course I will have to do some drilling to get the holes right. I could even use clear ones and see once the roots make it that far. Really cool idea. Thanks.
Okay, here is what I am doing with my home made germinating bench. I use four 6500 K, daylight bulbs. So far, I've had good luck germinating the seed with the trays considerably below the lights. I do have reflective material on three sides of the table and I guess it helps prevent the seedlings from getting leggy reaching for the light.
(Click photos to enlarge)
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/IMG_2693.jpg[/img]
These seedlings will eventually be my spring tomato garden. There are thirty varieties planted. Each variety is planted in two cells with two seeds in each cell. The weaker of the two plants in each cell will be removed, leaving one plant in each cell. Each cell is 3 1/2" deep and my intent is to not up pot them unless I feel I need faster growth. The seedlings have just begun adding foliage and seem to be on track to be eight inches tall around March one.
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/IMG_2697.jpg[/img]
I'm also growing a few plants in expanding coir pellets to see how well they do. So far, they are doing well. They were planted a couple of weeks after the seedlings in the cells. I also am not planning on up potting them.
My intent is to remove the netting from each seedlings root ball and plant them into hanging baskets as gifts at the appropriate time.
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/IMG_2695.jpg[/img]
Ted
(Click photos to enlarge)
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/IMG_2693.jpg[/img]
These seedlings will eventually be my spring tomato garden. There are thirty varieties planted. Each variety is planted in two cells with two seeds in each cell. The weaker of the two plants in each cell will be removed, leaving one plant in each cell. Each cell is 3 1/2" deep and my intent is to not up pot them unless I feel I need faster growth. The seedlings have just begun adding foliage and seem to be on track to be eight inches tall around March one.
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/IMG_2697.jpg[/img]
I'm also growing a few plants in expanding coir pellets to see how well they do. So far, they are doing well. They were planted a couple of weeks after the seedlings in the cells. I also am not planning on up potting them.
My intent is to remove the netting from each seedlings root ball and plant them into hanging baskets as gifts at the appropriate time.
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/IMG_2695.jpg[/img]
Ted
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DoubleDogFarm
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:43 pm
Love the experiment! Wish I had caught this thread a while ago, I'm not sure how I missed it. I was wishy washy on up potting myself, but now I think I'll definitely go for it!
Those peat pellets that say the netting is biodegradable are full of poop. I still find them in my garden from two years ago. They may break down, they just don't tell you it'll take 20 years!
Thanks for the photos and a good experiment! I think I'll up pot but plant deeper every time.
Those peat pellets that say the netting is biodegradable are full of poop. I still find them in my garden from two years ago. They may break down, they just don't tell you it'll take 20 years!
Thanks for the photos and a good experiment! I think I'll up pot but plant deeper every time.
Jeff,
Up potting is probably your best choice if your wanting to maximize growth. I want to limit growth to about 8" until plant out.
In the photo with the seedlings in the netted pellets, one type has an open bottom so the roots can grow out the bottom. The other type is totally enclosed and I know I will remove those nets. I haven't decided on removing or not removing the nets with the open bottoms. I'll make the decision when I plant them.
Ted
Up potting is probably your best choice if your wanting to maximize growth. I want to limit growth to about 8" until plant out.
In the photo with the seedlings in the netted pellets, one type has an open bottom so the roots can grow out the bottom. The other type is totally enclosed and I know I will remove those nets. I haven't decided on removing or not removing the nets with the open bottoms. I'll make the decision when I plant them.
Ted
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DoubleDogFarm
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- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:43 pm
I would like to encourage you to up-pot. Like said, many times before, it gives you a chance to plant deeper if leggy. Also you can start 50 or more plants in a open tray, then prick and transplant. How will you grow fifty plants in large pot? GMHO.I can't decide if I want to start small and up-pot, or just start in a larger pot.
Eric
Ted,
Since the roots spread out in all directions, I'd remove any of the netting. The ones I used were the open bottoms as well and the plants I used them on last year didn't do so hot. I blame it on the pellets/netting.
BUT, as usual I will say, different strokes for different folks. Do your own experiment and if that's what works for you, roll with it! I'm enjoying watching all of your results. Keep up with the great pics too!!
Since the roots spread out in all directions, I'd remove any of the netting. The ones I used were the open bottoms as well and the plants I used them on last year didn't do so hot. I blame it on the pellets/netting.
BUT, as usual I will say, different strokes for different folks. Do your own experiment and if that's what works for you, roll with it! I'm enjoying watching all of your results. Keep up with the great pics too!!
ok, I'm adding to the experiment. I am doing the same with one of my basil plants. I took it out the same way you did, lifting by the leaves and, as hard as it was for me to do, letting some of the roots break off in the process. Here's to seeing what happens!!
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/grnpez/Photo02091938.jpg[/img]
Ugh, I felt so bad feeling those little roots breaking beneath my fingers
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/grnpez/Photo02091938_1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/grnpez/Photo02091939.jpg[/img]
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/grnpez/Photo02091938.jpg[/img]
Ugh, I felt so bad feeling those little roots breaking beneath my fingers
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/grnpez/Photo02091938_1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/grnpez/Photo02091939.jpg[/img]
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DoubleDogFarm
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:43 pm
I wanted to give a little update on my "up potting" experiences. I planted 36 varieties of tomatoes in cells on Jan 2. They have now been under fluorescent lighting for about six weeks. Since my goal was to limit plant height instead of maximizing plant height while under lights, I decided to not up pot my seedlings. After six weeks under lights, my seedlings are 4" to 6" tall. Since I plan on planting out around March 1. I moved my seedlings outside to harden off in a mini greenhouse I constructed. I expect them to be about 10" tall around March 1.
My greenhouse is constructed to allow me to totally enclose the plants if the weather turns cold or leave one side open for ventilation in warm weather.
(Click photo to enlarge)
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2702.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2706.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2701.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2700.jpg[/img]
Ted
My greenhouse is constructed to allow me to totally enclose the plants if the weather turns cold or leave one side open for ventilation in warm weather.
(Click photo to enlarge)
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2702.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2706.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2701.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll308/tedln/2011%20Garden/IMG_2700.jpg[/img]
Ted
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DoubleDogFarm
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:43 pm
