Companion planting ? (sort of?)
I've heard several times on this site about "heavy feeders" "nitrogen fixers" etc. I know toms are heavy feeders and beans are nitro fixers, but can someone elaborate on this? What plants suck the nutrients out of the soil and which help it stay (I'm assuming that's what "fixers" are?
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Sage Hermit
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 532
- Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 4:20 pm
- Location: Finlaysen, MN Coniferous Forest
That's a good question to post in the permaculture lobby. Here too is good.
Doing some research today on natives I found a neat discovery of one of the purple flowers here in MN. its actually an invasive plant from Europe. Gross I know. ^^
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas049.jpg[/img]
Bird Vetch (Vicia cracca)
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas050.jpg[/img]
Invasive
But get this it actually a N fixer and it feeds birds bees and cows. Humans to if you count honey! since I have been learning about N fixers for about maybe 1 1/2 years I don't even know who suggested this but it was suggested using 10% of the total be N fixing plants.
Clovers are in the same N fixing category.
Its a really big question that involves a lot of information.
Doing some research today on natives I found a neat discovery of one of the purple flowers here in MN. its actually an invasive plant from Europe. Gross I know. ^^
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas049.jpg[/img]
Bird Vetch (Vicia cracca)
[img]https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa267/adaba/Ninjas050.jpg[/img]
Invasive
But get this it actually a N fixer and it feeds birds bees and cows. Humans to if you count honey! since I have been learning about N fixers for about maybe 1 1/2 years I don't even know who suggested this but it was suggested using 10% of the total be N fixing plants.
Clovers are in the same N fixing category.
Its a really big question that involves a lot of information.
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hit or miss
- Green Thumb
- Posts: 354
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 4:57 pm
- Location: central Kansas
This year I planted some pole beans alongside my tomatoes and am letting them grow up the tomato vine/cage in the hopes that the beans will deposit some nitrogen for the tomato to use. Unfortunately I didn't have the forethought to set up a control without a bean to see the impact the nitrogen fixer was imparting. Oh well, maybe next year!
[/quote]garden5 wrote:One thing at a time, App, I'm still wrapping my head around the science of exactly how nitrogen fixers put the nitrogen back in the soilYou should also look into Dynamic Accumulators to complete the picture..
I'm reading Sarrantonio's Northeast Cover Crop Handbook (that I got from Fedco) that has explained much of the mystery. I haven't finished it yet but I've learned some valuable insights:
Green manures pull nitrogen from the air and store it in the nodules on the roots. When the plant is killed & turned under into the soil, the stored N becomes available for the next crop. If the green manure is allowed to bloom, the plant uses some of the stored N for that activity, (it travels back up the stem) and so there's a reduction in the stored N. If you allow it to set seed, it's gone. The seed has it now. Whatever N that remains in the roots will be what it drew from the soil, and not the air. And if you pull & compost that, that N is now in the compost...a net loss.
So green manures can provide a net gain of N in the soil from the atmosphere, but apparently timing is very important. And they must be killed/tilled under to release. And then the recipient crop sown in a timely fashion too. The author also provides a good explanation of inoculants, their benefits & how to use them. And how to test to see if your green manure is actually fixing nitrogen- pull up a plant, look for the nodules and cut one open- if it's pink inside, you're in business. If it's black, no N is being fixed.
It's a great little book. Cheap too. I had alot of assumptions about "fixing" N that have been corrected. Still alotta questions- which may be answered when I finish the book!
Hope this helps~
I'm reading Sarrantonio's Northeast Cover Crop Handbook (that I got from Fedco) that has explained much of the mystery. I haven't finished it yet but I've learned some valuable insights:nedwina wrote:garden5 wrote:One thing at a time, App, I'm still wrapping my head around the science of exactly how nitrogen fixers put the nitrogen back in the soilYou should also look into Dynamic Accumulators to complete the picture.
Green manures pull nitrogen from the air and store it in the nodules on the roots. When the plant is killed & turned under into the soil, the stored N becomes available for the next crop. If the green manure is allowed to bloom, the plant uses some of the stored N for that activity, (it travels back up the stem) and so there's a reduction in the stored N. If you allow it to set seed, it's gone. The seed has it now. Whatever N that remains in the roots will be what it drew from the soil, and not the air. And if you pull & compost that, that N is now in the compost...a net loss.
So green manures can provide a net gain of N in the soil from the atmosphere, but apparently timing is very important. And they must be killed/tilled under to release. And then the recipient crop sown in a timely fashion too. The author also provides a good explanation of inoculants, their benefits & how to use them. And how to test to see if your green manure is actually fixing nitrogen- pull up a plant, look for the nodules and cut one open- if it's pink inside, you're in business. If it's black, no N is being fixed.
It's a great little book. Cheap too. I had alot of assumptions about "fixing" N that have been corrected. Still alotta questions- which may be answered when I finish the book!
Hope this helps~[/quote]
Wow, that sounds like a book worth reading. Does it have anything about dynamic accumulators?
Yes, but not under that specific term. Quite a few cover crops break hardpan and pull minerals & nutrients up from below it. There are individual sections on buckwheat, different clovers, etc., that do that. It is intended & designed for the Northeast farmer- so it only discusses cover crops & green manures that will work in those states. (But I'm sure much of the info would be useful in Ohio.)Wow, that sounds like a book worth reading. Does it have anything about dynamic accumulators?
It's a slim, spiral bound reference book. A little over 100 pages. Super cheap for the info it provides. But it is mostly an intro & overview. It'll name which plant will drill past the hardpan, but it doesn't go into too much scientific detail, like which cover crop will pull x mineral or element up.
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missmckee83
- Newly Registered
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:24 pm
- Location: Virginia Beach, VA,
I am a new gardener but am a chemist so can give you some insight as to what a N fixer is.Dixana wrote:I've heard several times on this site about "heavy feeders" "nitrogen fixers" etc. I know toms are heavy feeders and beans are nitro fixers, but can someone elaborate on this? What plants suck the nutrients out of the soil and which help it stay (I'm assuming that's what "fixers" are?
Nitrogen fixation is an essential process of the N cycle when inorganic nitrogen is transformed into organic Nitrogen. This means that compounds such as nitrate, nitrite, ammonia are transformed (normally by N fixers) into organic forms of N. These organic forms are things like peptides, DNA, basically anything that has Carbon and Nitrogen in it is an organic form of N. As humans and pretty mucu every animal we rely on plants to do this conversion for us, since we are not great at doing this for ouselves.
A plant that is a good N fixer basically will just fix a lot of N out of the soil or sometimes even from the air into organic forms. This means that they will be using an awful lot of inorganic nitrogen from the soil to do this, hence why it is important to keep these plants well fertilised. Also very important is the form of N the fertilise is in!! If a plant is a heavy N fixer then it will need a lot of inorganic forms of N fertiliser, things like nitrate, nitrite, ammonia. You would have to look into the specifics of the particular plant to see what form it normally uses.
Hope this helps!!
Gina
Gardeners have long been aware that certain vegetables and herbs have protective qualities in the garden. They seem to fend off harmful pests just by their proximity. This interesting effect is particularly noticeable with food crops. Vegetables can be protected from the most damaging pest threats by planting them close to specific types of vegetables or herbs. This strategy, sometimes known as companion planting, is a very sensible way to enhance the health of individual plants and the garden as a whole. Here are some tips for using companion planting to control pest insects.
Before the gardening season begins, make a list of the items you want to grow. Try to match them up with a protective plant or herb. Then you can map out a garden that mingles different plants in a way that will reduce insect attacks. Generally speaking, diversity in the garden helps reduce potential threats from all types of pests and disease. That's why cultivating a wide variety of plants is so important to organic gardeners.
Every garden should have onions growing in it, if only for the onion's general usefulness as a pest repellent. Plant with cabbage, carrots, corn, potatoes, and tomatoes to help repel potato beetles, carrot flies, and other harmful insects. Chives are also a good repellent, not to mention a tasty ingredient in recipes. Plant them around tomatoes, carrots, grapes, and apples. Chives also attract beneficial insects that do their part to keep the pest population down.
If you are growing broccoli, cauliflower or other members of the cabbage family, plant sage nearby to repel cabbage flies and root maggots. Thyme, another fragrant herb, repels cabbage loopers and whiteflies when planted around cabbage. Radishes planted around cucumbers, cabbage, melons and other veggies will repel cucumber beetles, root flies, vine borers and other pests.
Carrots can be protected from insect enemies such as carrot worms and carrot flies by planting with sage, parsley, or leeks. To protect potatoes, plant them with borage, dead nettle, henbit or onions. Potatoes planted near beans, cabbage, cauliflower and corn may repel attacks from Mexican bean beetles.
Certain herbs are valuable in any garden because they provide an attractive habitat for beneficial insects. These insects, in turn, will prey on damaging pests. Herbs such as borage, dill, caraway, tansy, fennel, and parsley (to name just a few) have small, nectar-rich flowers and aromatic leaves. They attract lacewings, braconid wasps, aphid parasites, spiders, mealybug and spider mite destroyers, and minute pirate bugs, all of which prey on harmful insects.
Tomatoes are well-known for their repellent qualities. The alkaloids in the plant effectively repel many insects, including cabbage pests, asparagus beetles, flea beetles and whiteflies. Plant tomatoes with beans, cabbage, onions and peas.
The protective effect of certain plants is something that every organic gardener should try to use as part of their pest control strategy. You can't go wrong by keeping the principles of companion planting in mind when you are laying out garden beds. Considering the damage that harmful insects can do, it's worthwhile doing a little research to find the most beneficial combinations of vegetables, fruits, herbs, and flowers.
Before the gardening season begins, make a list of the items you want to grow. Try to match them up with a protective plant or herb. Then you can map out a garden that mingles different plants in a way that will reduce insect attacks. Generally speaking, diversity in the garden helps reduce potential threats from all types of pests and disease. That's why cultivating a wide variety of plants is so important to organic gardeners.
Every garden should have onions growing in it, if only for the onion's general usefulness as a pest repellent. Plant with cabbage, carrots, corn, potatoes, and tomatoes to help repel potato beetles, carrot flies, and other harmful insects. Chives are also a good repellent, not to mention a tasty ingredient in recipes. Plant them around tomatoes, carrots, grapes, and apples. Chives also attract beneficial insects that do their part to keep the pest population down.
If you are growing broccoli, cauliflower or other members of the cabbage family, plant sage nearby to repel cabbage flies and root maggots. Thyme, another fragrant herb, repels cabbage loopers and whiteflies when planted around cabbage. Radishes planted around cucumbers, cabbage, melons and other veggies will repel cucumber beetles, root flies, vine borers and other pests.
Carrots can be protected from insect enemies such as carrot worms and carrot flies by planting with sage, parsley, or leeks. To protect potatoes, plant them with borage, dead nettle, henbit or onions. Potatoes planted near beans, cabbage, cauliflower and corn may repel attacks from Mexican bean beetles.
Certain herbs are valuable in any garden because they provide an attractive habitat for beneficial insects. These insects, in turn, will prey on damaging pests. Herbs such as borage, dill, caraway, tansy, fennel, and parsley (to name just a few) have small, nectar-rich flowers and aromatic leaves. They attract lacewings, braconid wasps, aphid parasites, spiders, mealybug and spider mite destroyers, and minute pirate bugs, all of which prey on harmful insects.
Tomatoes are well-known for their repellent qualities. The alkaloids in the plant effectively repel many insects, including cabbage pests, asparagus beetles, flea beetles and whiteflies. Plant tomatoes with beans, cabbage, onions and peas.
The protective effect of certain plants is something that every organic gardener should try to use as part of their pest control strategy. You can't go wrong by keeping the principles of companion planting in mind when you are laying out garden beds. Considering the damage that harmful insects can do, it's worthwhile doing a little research to find the most beneficial combinations of vegetables, fruits, herbs, and flowers.
Wow, that helps a lot. Thanks!missmckee83 wrote:I am a new gardener but am a chemist so can give you some insight as to what a N fixer is.Dixana wrote:I've heard several times on this site about "heavy feeders" "nitrogen fixers" etc. I know toms are heavy feeders and beans are nitro fixers, but can someone elaborate on this? What plants suck the nutrients out of the soil and which help it stay (I'm assuming that's what "fixers" are?
Nitrogen fixation is an essential process of the N cycle when inorganic nitrogen is transformed into organic Nitrogen. This means that compounds such as nitrate, nitrite, ammonia are transformed (normally by N fixers) into organic forms of N. These organic forms are things like peptides, DNA, basically anything that has Carbon and Nitrogen in it is an organic form of N. As humans and pretty mucu every animal we rely on plants to do this conversion for us, since we are not great at doing this for ouselves.
A plant that is a good N fixer basically will just fix a lot of N out of the soil or sometimes even from the air into organic forms. This means that they will be using an awful lot of inorganic nitrogen from the soil to do this, hence why it is important to keep these plants well fertilised. Also very important is the form of N the fertilise is in!! If a plant is a heavy N fixer then it will need a lot of inorganic forms of N fertiliser, things like nitrate, nitrite, ammonia. You would have to look into the specifics of the particular plant to see what form it normally uses.
Hope this helps!!
Gina
Wow, that helps a lot. Thanks!missmckee83 wrote:I am a new gardener but am a chemist so can give you some insight as to what a N fixer is.Dixana wrote:I've heard several times on this site about "heavy feeders" "nitrogen fixers" etc. I know toms are heavy feeders and beans are nitro fixers, but can someone elaborate on this? What plants suck the nutrients out of the soil and which help it stay (I'm assuming that's what "fixers" are?
Nitrogen fixation is an essential process of the N cycle when inorganic nitrogen is transformed into organic Nitrogen. This means that compounds such as nitrate, nitrite, ammonia are transformed (normally by N fixers) into organic forms of N. These organic forms are things like peptides, DNA, basically anything that has Carbon and Nitrogen in it is an organic form of N. As humans and pretty mucu every animal we rely on plants to do this conversion for us, since we are not great at doing this for ouselves.
A plant that is a good N fixer basically will just fix a lot of N out of the soil or sometimes even from the air into organic forms. This means that they will be using an awful lot of inorganic nitrogen from the soil to do this, hence why it is important to keep these plants well fertilised. Also very important is the form of N the fertilise is in!! If a plant is a heavy N fixer then it will need a lot of inorganic forms of N fertiliser, things like nitrate, nitrite, ammonia. You would have to look into the specifics of the particular plant to see what form it normally uses.
Hope this helps!!
Gina
So, you're saying that not only do nitrogen fixers put nitrogen back into the soil from the air, but they also convert nitrogen that is already in the soil, but in a form unusable to plants, to a form that is usable. Is this right?