germinated seeds - (Velvet Mesquite )

[alisios]

Hello - This could be posted in another forum, but since these will be destined for Bonsai, I'll post this here... I've never done this before so I'm quite surprised this has worked... so far

As an experiment, I gathered some (bean pods) seeds from the Velvet Mesquite trees in my yard last fall - About 3 days ago, I placed the seeds in some sprouting cups, watered them, covered them and put them on top of the refrigerator... I forgot about them, and today I looked and 4 of them have sprouted! Man that was fast!

I was hoping to get a little time to gather more info, but the baby's water has broken... so here I am... what do I do now?? Wait until they're bigger I guess.. put them in light now? huh... thanks for the info - I never even tried to sprout my own flowers, et al...



Man, if it's this easy to germinate mesquite, I'll have to do more for sure - I have a few seedlings that I pulled out of my yard over the summer, but generally they are really hard to harvest from the wild...

btw, these sprouts are way larger than what I've seen come out of my yard - could there have been something else in the soil??

Thanks again!

[opabinia51]

Put the seedlings under a grow light or they may become "leggy"


Don't overwater them, just keep the soil moist. You can fertilize them with an organic fertilizer so as not to burn their tender little roots. I'd recommend Kelp meal as it is a slow realease fertilizer and you won't have to worry about reapplying it until it is time to pot up your little seedlings.

[Gnome]

alisios,

what do I do now?? Wait until they're bigger I guess.. put them in light now? huh.

Opa is quite right these seedlings need to be placed in a bright location ASAP. In fact these two are perhaps already a bit on the leggy side, they have elongated in the search for adequate lighting. You'll probably get some more soon so don't worry too much about these two. If you retained any seeds it might be better to start some more this spring outside, they'll do much better.

I always prefer to start outside when possible, this takes a lot of the hassle out of the process. I do have a small flat of Pomegranates now but that is out of necessity. It is my understanding that the seeds should not be allowed to dry out and I had to plant them while they were still fresh. I have them under fluorescent tubes and keep them no further than six inches away from the tubes. I have them on for 16 hours and off for 8.

btw, these sprouts are way larger than what I've seen come out of my yard - could there have been something else in the soil?

I suppose it is possible that you have some interlopers in your pots. If you have not grown from seeds before you may not be aware of the phenomena of cotyledons or "seed leaves". Many plants produce an atypical set of leaves as they first emerge from the soil. Subsequent leaves will be more representative of the adult form.

I have been using the "fines" that are leftover when I sift my bonsai soil for seedlings and cuttings. This is essentially a miniature version of my bonsai mix. Smaller than my regular mix but coarser than what you have shown.

There is an interesting technique that is described in the Bonsai Today Pine book from Stone Lantern. It describes a method where the roots of new seedlings are removed entirely and they are then treated basically as cuttings. This is supposed to encourage a more uniform, radial root system. I have used this technique with some Scots Pine seedlings that I started in 2006. As I recall I lost nearly 40% of the seedlings. Although I have since transplanted them I can't say with any certainty if it was worth it as that was the one and only time I grew this species from seed.

At any rate when you do pot them up take the opportunity to begin to improve the roots. Perhaps the tap root can be shortened to encourage laterals. If one root is too high, or low, compared to the rest it would be best to remove it. Every time you re-pot a tree is an opportunity to improve the roots. This is one of the advantages of growing from seed, you have more control over the future nebari.

This is of course going to be a long term project. I have some Crab Apple and Barberry seedlings that spent their first two years in pots getting them to a size where they are not so vulnerable. They are now in the ground and will remain there for several years where they should put on better growth.

Norm

[alisios]

Thanks Gnome and opabinia!

I did get a grow light florescent and put them under it. You are probably right that these two are a bit leggy, but 4 more have sprouted since. They are still in the little tray with the light hovering right above them (around 2 inches). I wrapped 2 sides of this tray with foil in case that may help...

I can't seem to find kelp meal around here, do you know of any good online sources?

If you retained any seeds it might be better to start some more this spring outside, they'll do much better.

I'm impatient! I'll get them outside during the day...

[Gnome]

alisios,

Here is a vendor that offers a variety of organic fertilizers:
http://www.agorganics.com/productcat/Fertilizers/13.html
I did not see Kelp meal there but they have plenty of other options.

Norm

[arboricola]

Look here for kelp meal and a 1000 other things..
http://homeharvest.com/orgfert.htm
Phil...

[alisios]

thanks again! - I see the second link also has Mychorrazai - which I've been trying to find for some manzanita -

[opabinia51]

Yes, that is a great idea. Many plants (especially trees) will not be healthy without their endemic symbiont.


Of course, one excellant reason for using trees from your region to bonsai is that you can simply use soil from your region that would already contain all of the flora and fauna that your tree would need.

Do a little research on the web to make sure that you are getting the correct species of fungus to use as a myccorhizal symbiont for your tree before leaping and buying whatever myccorhiae this company is selling. If you give me the genus ans species of your tree I could do a peer reviewed journal search for you.

[alisios]

Well, these seedlings are Prosopis velutina ( Velvet mesquite ) and the manzanita are Arctostaphylos pungens - thanks! A "peer reviewed journal search" sounds so official!

[opabinia51]

Okay, I'll try to look into this on Thursday. I'll write it down so I don't forget. But try the internet as well.

Thursday is full of meetings so, if I don't get around to it until Friday, don't get worried. I'm on the case.

(I don't have access to all the databases on my computer anymore so, I'll have to make a trip to the University)

[alisios]

If you retained any seeds it might be better to start some more this spring outside, they'll do much better.

I always prefer to start outside when possible, this takes a lot of the hassle out of the process.

Next time I will wait a little closer to spring - it's just that I didn't know how long (or if) they would workt... I guess it was a lot quicker than I thought!

Of the fifteen seeds I planted, 12 of them have sprouted - so I guess I'll have to do the indoor light thingy for a little bit - things start to warm up a bit in a few weeks - so I'll get them outside then...

[Gnome]

alisios,

Next time I will wait a little closer to spring - it's just that I didn't know how long (or if) they would workt... I guess it was a lot quicker than I thought!

Since you now know that the seed is both viable and quick to germinate I suggest you hold of until it is warm enough to sow them outside. Considering the length of time such a project will take there is little to be gained by starting inside a month earlier.

At times there may be exceptions. Some seed must not be allowed to dry out or they will not germinate. I believe that Pomegranates fall into this category. I have some under fluorescents that I planted last October when the fruit was purchased. Lacking such a reason to start inside, it really is better to start outside.

Why not try a little experiment? Even if you intend to start a new batch inside later in the season, keep some that will be grown outside exclusively. I would wager that by the end of the season you will not be able to tell the difference. The "outside" group may even end up healthier.

Norm

[alisios]

I'd recommend Kelp meal as it is a slow realease fertilizer and you won't have to worry about reapplying it until it is time to pot up your little seedlings.

I have Kelp meal now and it's in a granular form - does this dissolve in water and if so, how much should I put in a gallon of water for instance.. ?

[opabinia51]

Just sprinkle some ontop of the soil arund your seedlings. It is a slow release fertilzer so, you won't have to add any until you pot up your seedlings. When you do pot up your seedlings, add a handful of Kelp meal to your soil mix and mix it in really well.

[alisios]

Okay - things are going great - so far!

Since they are all growing well, I believe they all have enough light to keep them going for now... There's about 3500 lumens hitting in an area of about 18"x12" area all wrapped in foil...

My next question is when will I pot them up? I unfortunately started them in of those little "six pack" garden store size containers - - not thinking that this would actually work...

Secondary leaves are all out and they are around 2-3 inches tall now...

Thanks all!

C

these are the first 2 "leggy" ones: