JoeLewko
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Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:29 pm

Red Pine

This red Pine was just given to me (Wednesday actually) by the same man who gave me the ficus seen here

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5571

and the juniper seen here (which i'll update with pics later)

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3266

This tree is in it's 60's, the owner was unsure of its exact age. Although, he bought it 8 years ago.

[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/pinefrontedit.jpg[/img]

You'll notice some dead branches, and the fact that this tree needs some work. The reason for that is because a few years ago (not more than 5, but probably less) this tree almost died after the winter. The previous owner was going to throw it out, but he noticed some green, and he said the canopy was recovering ever since. It looks like those branches at one time supported the canopy. He left them on there thinking he would jin them one day, but he never did it. He gave this tree to me, because he said he is getting too old to care for his Bonsai, so i assume that's the reason he never jinned those branches. I'm not sure if i am going to jin them, or just get rid of them, because as i said before this tree needs some work, but I'm not sure what direction i want to take it in (and ideas on that are welcome). He also said this tree might be potbound, so i may have to repot it within the next year (at the proper time).

Here's a pic of the back as i see it now, and as how he had it.

[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/pineedit.jpg[/img]

Thoughts?

Joe

P.S. Sorry about the tree in the background :(

ynot
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:49 pm
Location: USDA Z:5a Sunset Z. 41 IL

IMO - Don't cut off the potential jins.

I think that the picture you posted as 'the back' makes a far more suitable front than your 'front'.

Pines take some work....good luck.

ynot

JoeLewko
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Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:29 pm

This is a quick virt of a possible direction for the tree.

(from the picture i labeled the back, which is the new front, a dead branch comes toward the person, which is why i have the white there, to represent what will be jinned. This branch can be seen from the pic i said was my front).

[img]https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m204/joelewko/pinephotoshopvirt.jpg[/img]

Also, i wanted to see if the tree was potbound, and i guess to an extent it is. When i tried to see if i could remove the tree form the pot, it slipped right out, the soil staying in one square mass. I'll have a pic of the rootmass uploaded tomorrow, or later tonight. I think this tree needs to be rootpruned, which I'm a little nervous about, (i don't want to kill a 'recovering' 60 year old tree), but if it needs to be done, it needs to be done. However, no one can really give me insight on that until i upload the pics...

Joe

JoeLewko
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Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:29 pm

sorry it took a little longer than anticipated, but here is a picture of the rootmass when i slid it out of the pot. This is underneath, with the front of the mass towards the top. I think this is in need of a repotting in the spring, but i am a little nervous to rootpruning, as i ahve said before this tree didn't do so well a while back, and i don't want to kill it. How are pines with recovering with rootpruning? I read somewhere that you don't need to "balance" the foliage with the roots, the tree does that itself. How true is that statement? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[url=https://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pineroots001ki7.jpg][img]https://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6461/pineroots001ki7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Joe

psylnser
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Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:17 pm

I am a beginner to Bonsai. I have read heaps of conflicting arguements on this topic. But after watching the video "Bonsai: the works of divinity","The complete guide to Bonsai" by Harry Tomlinson and The Private life of plants with by David attenborough.

I can safely say that if you root prune it at the right time, make sure its watered and right soil ,it can only get better.
Trees and plants only need to have their conditions satisfied to grow.
soil,water,air,sunlight.

The book I have is definately the best Bonsai book I saw at borders.
This book lists everything in a detailed simple way, including soil mixtures and it also has compendium of trees and shrubs,
Position, Watering, Feeding, Repotting, Pruning, Propgation. My only problem with the book was the poor quality of the text font.
He doesn't talk rubbish, doesn't try to make it sound like Bonsai is harder than it is like some people do.

he recommends.
Japanese Red Pine:
Repotting: every two to five years in early to mid spring. use free draining soil mix.
I however don't know if that applies to trees that are as old as yours. as this book usually covers youngish trees.[/b]

JoeLewko
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Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:29 pm

Thanks for the comment,

As the older a tree gets, the less it needs to be repotted. I'd say this tree is more towards the every 4-5 year range.

Yes, after doing some research, apparently pines respond well to rootpruning, if, like you said, it's done at the right time (which makes me a little less nervous)

This article was actually very helpful, if you're interested in reading more on repotting established bonsai. It's a bit lenghty, but it covers everything i needed and was probably one of the most helpful articles i've ever read.
https://www.bonsaikc.com/repotting_established.htm

Joe

psylnser
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Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:17 pm

Yeah had a look i will bookmark it for later reading. definately good article with pictures.
Perhaps if you are too scared, why not take it to a bonsai nursery and get them to do it? ... (obviously go checkout their work first before you let them touch your precious tree)

JoeLewko
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Posts: 348
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:29 pm

i actually considered that, but i didn't for two reasons.

1) If i let people do it for me, i won't learn anything.

2) I think i can do it myself, i just don't want to get scissor happy with the rootpruning. That's what I'm nervous about.

Plus, the closest place to me that i know of (and trust) is in Brooklyn, which is about 30 miles away, and i don't want to travel with this tree if i don't have to.

Joe

ynot
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Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:49 pm
Location: USDA Z:5a Sunset Z. 41 IL

psylnser wrote:I am a beginner to Bonsai.
I can safely say that if you root prune it at the right time, make sure its watered and right soil ,it can only get better.
Trees and plants only need to have their conditions satisfied to grow.
soil,water,air,sunlight.
I agree [Provided you are including ferts in there somewhere as strictly inorganic soil {IE: Some bonsai 'soil'} does not have much in the way of nutrients.]
The book I have is definately the best Bonsai book I saw at borders. [The complete guide to Bonsai" by Harry Tomlinson ]
While I think this is a fine beginner book... I disagree with the broad statement above. IMO the best thing about TCGtB is that the trees shown are of a quality that could actually be achievable in ones lifetime [& The pots are tremendous - But his wife is a potter 8)

One thing to keep in mind is that the above book was published in 1990 and things have changed considerably [in the west] since then as far as what people are using for soil components [Far more IO now than when Harry was writing this.]

Amy Liangs book is used to be available at Borders though a quick web surf did not find it there....:? [YMMV]
This book lists everything in a detailed simple way, including soil mixtures and it also has compendium of trees and shrubs,
Position, Watering, Feeding, Repotting, Pruning, Propgation. My only problem with the book was the :evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil: text font.
He doesn't talk rubbish, doesn't try to make it sound like Bonsai is harder than it is like some people do
. True, He keeps it pretty simple as it is an introductory book. This necessitates that he leave out many more advanced techniques that would 'make it sound like Bonsai is harder'

psylnser, Here is a thread with some bonsai reading references that you may be interested in checking out.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4139&highlight=books


Didn't mean to derail your pine thread Joe - Get some research going on [Including pruning as that is an entirely different ball game with pines. :shock:]

Good luck

ynot

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