Kellogg Amend "Organic" Compost has Sewage Sludge?

[PHONETOOL]

I was at Home Depot looking for some organic compost The salesperson there said I should use the Kellogg compost. For some reason I always smell before I decide. That stuff smelled like chemicals I told the salesperson I didn't like the smell he insisted the Kellogg sales representative was at the store that passed week and told him the stuff was certified organic

Well good thing I decided to follow my instincts and Googled Kellogg compost before applying it to my organic vegetable garden

This is what I found >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTG05oMG3EY


Here is another article on the subject >> http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/ ... logg-amend



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[Burz]

Thanks for the post. This kind of thing frustrates me so much. I feel bad for the people who want to have a safe garden without knowledge of the filth thats out there. A lot of people have a green thumb and don't know it, and can grow food with little or no knowledge from the web or books. Plant a seed and water. Kind of instinctive really. These are the folks who are affected by this the most, the ones who don't have any troubles in there grows and don't feel the need to join a forum such as this. Many companies mislead consumers into believing there products are safe to make profit when they most certainly are not.(not just garden products) Things are turning around though I hope,I think. More detectives are out there now unveiling things like this.

[rainbowgardener]

Creepy ... the article didn't even mention all the heavy metals, arsenic, pesticides, etc that can be in sewage sludge. The best compost is the stuff you produce yourself in / from your own garden. Then you have a lot better idea what is in it.

I thought it was worth highlighting this from the article:

A 2009 EPA survey of sludge samples from across the US found nearly universal contamination by 10 flame retardants and 12 pharmaceuticals and exceptionally high levels of endocrine disruptors such as triclosan, an ingredient in antibacterial soap that scientists believe is killing amphibians.

I think we have gone way overboard on this anti-bacterial thing. It's like everyone thinks they should be living in a sterile environment all the time. Life is not open heart surgery!! Not only are all the anti-bacterials bad for the environment, the sterile environment is bad for us. Our immune systems need to learn to recognize intruders when we are young and they need something to practice on generally, otherwise they turn against us and auto-immune diseases and allergies result -- and autoimmune diseases and allergies are proliferating these days.

Here's one article about the sterile environment - allergies connection "boredom of the immune system"

http://www.anthromed.org/Article.aspx?artpk=346

there's lots more out there

[PHONETOOL]

I thought I should highlight this from the article

Other people's poo.

I would've been so mad if I had put this in my garden.

[rainbowgardener]

Well yeah, but to me the humanure is not at all the worst part of sewage sludge. I'd be much more concerned about all the other stuff that gets in to it - motor oil, heavy metals, pesticides, etc, etc.

Where I lived before we had a composting toilet and we did compost humanure, ours and guests. The biosolids (poo) are composted and break down into fertilizer. The other stuff doesn't break down.

[toxcrusadr]

First let me say that I am skeptical about using sewage-derived compost in the garden. So I don't want to sound like I'm defending or advocating it. But I did want to make a few comments.

The City of Milwaukee has been making Milorganite for decades. My dad used it. It is not a new thing to use sewage sludge this way.

"Many companies mislead consumers into believing there products are safe to make profit when they most certainly are not."

This implies that you know sewage derived compost is not safe. Can you cite specific reasons why?

Sewage sludge, by the way, is processed quite a bit more than manure from CAFO's that's (presumably) used in a lot of compost products. The sewage is aerobically digested, then the sludge settled out and sent to a *second*, anaerobic, higher temperature digester before it leaves the plant. THEN composted once again (more or less, depending) with other ingredients.

I bet there's more e coli in the average manure derived compost bag than Kellogg. Just a guess.

"Creepy ... the article didn't even mention all the heavy metals, arsenic, pesticides, etc that can be in sewage sludge. The best compost is the stuff you produce yourself in / from your own garden. Then you have a lot better idea what is in it.

"I thought it was worth highlighting this from the article:

"A 2009 EPA survey of sludge samples from across the US found nearly universal contamination by 10 flame retardants and 12 pharmaceuticals and exceptionally high levels of endocrine disruptors such as triclosan, an ingredient in antibacterial soap that scientists believe is killing amphibians. "


Regarding chemical content, just so everyone knows, there *is* a standard, the Biosolids Rule, governing maximum allowable levels of contaminants. Whether you agree with it or not is a different question, but this *has* been researched and will continue to be as more science is brought to bear.

Finally, the mere presence or detection of a chemical means exactly nothing in terms of toxicity. The phrase 'exceptionally high levels' is judgemental unless it is compared to something. I find that misleading.

And I totally agree about the triclosan and other antibacterials. I avoid them whenever possible when buying soap. Just unnecessary.

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply tox. I agree that people shouldn't automatically freak out at the thought of sewage sludge and that if we can find a [safe] way to reclaim all those nutrients we should.

But the existence of an environmental law does not necessarily imply the enforcement of it. The EPA has very limited enforcement capabilities these days.

And the survey I referred to: survey of sludge samples from across the US found nearly universal contamination by 10 flame retardants and 12 pharmaceuticals and exceptionally high levels of endocrine disruptors such as triclosan,

was from the EPA, so presumably they have some knowledge of what is safe and what isn't and what exceptionally high means in reference to the standards that have been set.

I hope we can safely reclaim nutrients from sewage, but I'm not sure we are there yet. It is easier if people do it individually, via composting toilets, to save all those nutrients before they go in to the sewage stream and get mixed in with all the motor oil, industrial wastes, antibacterials, etc.

[hshields]

Official US government policy is the disposal of toxic industrial wastes in public sewers. Sewer treatment concentrates the chemicals in the sewage sludge. Pretreatment is no longer strictly enforced for fear of costing industries money and causing loss of jobs.


In 2007, tons of Milwaukee sewage sludge "Milorganite" had to be scraped off 30 public parks and disposed in EPA licensed hazardous waste landfill because of toxic levels of carcinogenic PCBs ( polychloride biphenyl ethers). In 2008 and 2009 Milwaukee had more problems with excessive levels of PCBs in their sludge biosolids.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmen ... atest/4284



In 2010, high levels of toxic lead (1100 parts per million) in the Milwaukee sludge biosolids spread on Kenosha, Wisconsin, farm fields greatly exceeded the EPA limit of 300 ppm in Class A EQ sludge biosolids.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/85012452.html


Sewage sludge Milorganite is a dangerous "fertilizer" which should not be used on home gardens or public parks and playgrounds where children and pets are exposed.
Class A sewage sludge biosolids has caused many incidents of illness:


http://www.sludgevictims.com/Class-A-sludge.html

Chemical pollutants and pathogens in sludge are taken up and internalized by vegetables and plants.
http://www.sludgevictims.com/plants/uptake.html

Wastewater treatment does not inactivate infectious human and animal prions which US EPA acknowledges are also present in sewage sludge, including Milorganite and Kelloggs.
http://www.sludgevictims.com/prions/PRI ... DGEBIO.pdf






Helane Shields, Alton, NH http://www.sludgevictims.com
http://www.alzheimers-prions.com/

[PHONETOOL]

Official US government policy is the disposal of toxic industrial wastes in public sewers. Sewer treatment concentrates the chemicals in the sewage sludge. Pretreatment is no longer strictly enforced for fear of costing industries money and causing loss of jobs.


In 2007, tons of Milwaukee sewage sludge "Milorganite" had to be scraped off 30 public parks and disposed in EPA licensed hazardous waste landfill because of toxic levels of carcinogenic PCBs ( polychloride biphenyl ethers). In 2008 and 2009 Milwaukee had more problems with excessive levels of PCBs in their sludge biosolids.

http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmen ... atest/4284



In 2010, high levels of toxic lead (1100 parts per million) in the Milwaukee sludge biosolids spread on Kenosha, Wisconsin, farm fields greatly exceeded the EPA limit of 300 ppm in Class A EQ sludge biosolids.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/85012452.html


Sewage sludge Milorganite is a dangerous "fertilizer" which should not be used on home gardens or public parks and playgrounds where children and pets are exposed.
Class A sewage sludge biosolids has caused many incidents of illness:


http://www.sludgevictims.com/Class-A-sludge.html

Chemical pollutants and pathogens in sludge are taken up and internalized by vegetables and plants.
http://www.sludgevictims.com/plants/uptake.html

Wastewater treatment does not inactivate infectious human and animal prions which US EPA acknowledges are also present in sewage sludge, including Milorganite and Kelloggs.
http://www.sludgevictims.com/prions/PRI ... DGEBIO.pdf






Helane Shields, Alton, NH http://www.sludgevictims.com
http://www.alzheimers-prions.com/

Very Informative Thank You


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[LA47]

Is there a safe compost made that is for sale? Maybe I better stick with aged manure I can get from a farmer till I get my own compost started!

[ElizabethB]

Good idea. Does your community offer yard waste pick up? If they do they may also have a composting facility. We have weekly yard waste pick up as part of our municipal service. It is brought to a composting facility. Also tree trimmers and yard services and landscaper and even homeowner bring stuff to the facility. There is a charge to drop off. All of the yard waste is run through HUGE grinders then spread out in rows. They have these really weird looking machines that travel over the rows turning and watering. The resulting compost is given away to parish (county) residents. I have built beds using the stuff. Yes I did have to remove trash - junk folks toss in with their yard waste. But the price is right so the extra effort was justified. On a real big project where running back and forth for multiple 1-2 yard loads is not practible ther is a local soil and gravel company that will pick up and deliver a 14 yard truck full for $75. The math works because the facility is 25 miles away.

If your muncipality does this you have a great free/low cost resource. I have heard of some cities that charge for the compost but the price is usually in $10 per yard range. Still super cheap. Work in some aged manure and you have a garden or flower bed.

[Caroline Snyder]

Responding to Toxcrusadr:

The judicious use of seasoned non-CAFO dairy manure has never caused any illnesses or deaths. Sewage sludge, on the other hand, has sickened many hundreds of rural neighbors living and working next to treated fields. Esp. noteworthy is the association of asthma attacks, and a rare form of pneumonia linked to sludge-exposure. Prize-winning dairy herds have been wiped out after animals ingesting forage grown on sludge, sickened and died. Sludge has polluted wells, and permanently poisoned healthy soil
The Biosolids Rule, which Toxcrusader touts, has been discredited by the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, which warned that the current biosolids (sludge) regulations are out-dated and based on faulty risk assessment models.
Sewage sludge generated in industrialized urban centers contains thousands of man-made chemicals, some of which are highly toxic and persistent, the vast majority of which are not regulated. Sludge or sludge products do not belong on the land where we grow our food. The Sierra Club recently issued a compost policy, promoting composts made with clean feed stocks, and opposing any kind of compost that contains toxic materials, such as sewage sludge.

http://sierraclub.org/policy/conservation/compost.pdf

For information how the EPA, state agencies, and the USDA are actually working with industry to PROMOTE a practice that they know is harmful, see
IJOEH_1104_snyder.pdf posted on www.sludgefacts.org

[toxcrusadr]

Some very good points have been made. I do not choose to 'defend' sludge compost, or the Clean Water Act.

Rainbow: Yes, the EPA study identified chemicals. I am quite sure the study itself and whatever press release they did when it was released, specifically pointed out that DETECTION means absolutely bupkis with respect to risk. It was not a risk assessment study, only the results of analytical testing of a bunch of sludge samples. Nothing more. It's Step 1 of a multi step process to determining risk. To say that it means sludge is full of toxins is making it sound like more than it is.

Hshields: It's hyperbole to say that official government policy is to dispose of toxic industrial waste in the sewers. Unless the discharge limits are zero, there has to be a minimum number. In practice, zero, if it could be achieved, could not be measured or confirmed by any method on Earth. So there has to be a nonzero limit for everything. If you disagree with the numbers, that's a different topic.

I do not 'tout' the Biosolids Rule. I only brought it up to point out that there is a certain amount of regulation, however flawed it may be, in case there are readers who thought otherwise.

Thousands of chemicals are on the market and most have not been environmentally tested. The fact that they end up in the environment means they should be.

We should be asking ourselves whether we need to use all this stuff in the first place. Is antibiotic liquid hand soap really necessary?

Aside from the lead and PCBs that were reported (deffly a problem!), a lot of this stuff is in household and personal care products. If we're scared of triclosan in the compost, why are we washing our hands with it? Matter of fact, it is probably not a risk in compost for that very reason, but it does make you think.

[toxcrusadr]

Later as I was thinking about this, I realized that the solution to a lot of our problems would be to require ingredient labelling of commercial compost. Then, at least, the consumer could decide for him/herself whether they wanted to use the product. The market would decide what was acceptable.

There are no federal labeling requirements for compost, and maybe that's something we could all agree on.

[Flowerhead]

edited to remove wrong info ....

I use it but only on my lawn. I use it because it's pretty inexpensive. I wouldn't use it on any crops

I apply water after fertilizing and that area will smell like someone's butt for about 24-36 hrs

Not the greatest stuff but it has some uses