Organic Indoor Garden :) (Pic Heavy)

[Maineah_John]

I couldn't find a indoor gardening forum so I decided to start a thread here since my garden is 100% organic. Indoor gardening may be a bit controversial and I hope to prove it's worth to other helpfulgardening.com'ers :).

The setup -

1 300 watt 2'x4' T5 light fixture with daylight bulbs
1 2'x4' dark room tent from ebay (not really need)

The tent gets way to hot with the zipper doors closed so it stays open with a box fan blowing in to keep the temps in check. This isn't needed if you don't use a grow tent. I did try centrifugal fans and ducting for closed ventilation which wasn't strong enough and lead to temps getting into the mid 90's. This is probably because I bought the cheapest fan possible.

It's a great conversation starter whenever someone visits they always want to see how the indoor garden is doing :). So it works out great.

Currently I'm still learning what plants do well indoors and which don't. For example cucumbers don't seem to want their roots restricted much this had lead to yellowing leaves and rather sad looking plant. Other than that though all other plants seem to be doing well.

On to the plants

2 Blueberry just starting to leaf out the plants were collected form a rather large wild stand here in southern Maine.

6 Wild Hard wood high bush blueberry cuttings I'm trying to root in a small tub tote. It gets sprayed every day or two to keep the humidity up. The cuttings are about 1 month old so far so good. :)

1 Dwarf banana tree - Has been growing vary well form a small seedling purchased on amazon. It is now about 1 foot tall and roughly 8 months old.

1 Pineapple plant planted with the banana tree in a large container to save space. It also seems to be doing vary good.

1 Mini Yellow Bell pepper seedling. Haven't had the best of luck with these so we'll have to see how this does.

2 Chinese Elm tree seedlings.

2 Dwarf Orange tree seedlings (also about 8 months old) These were kept in a 3 inch container for about 6 of the 8 months it's stayed vary small. All growth is nice and green though. Ever since transplanting into a 1 gallon grow bag it has exploded with new lush green growth.

1 Goji Berry plant - For whatever reason this thing doesn't want to send side shoots and has grown to tall so I tied it over with string hoping this will help.

1 Red and green Coleus plant. It may need to be removed since it grows rather fast but nonetheless it's pretty.

Last but certainly not least

3 Ever baring Strawberry plants I transplanted into a 1 gallon container this morning.

I'll take a bunch of pics a later today and update this thread with any info that may be helpful for the new indoor gardener or anyone considering gardening indoors with florescent lighting.

Also if you just want to check out an indoor garden this thread will be pic heavy!

Most of these plants could be grown in a south facing window (Which I don't have) if you'd rather not grow with lighting. Although it hasn't affected my electric bill much if at all and the light runs from when I wake up till bed time.

Umm that's about it for now TTFN

Here are the dirty strawberries

[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/IMGA0001.jpg[/img]

[Maineah_John]

Group photo
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/001.jpg[/img]

Current Temps
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/008.jpg[/img]

A vary sad lemon cucumber
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/007.jpg[/img]

Goji Berry tied down to try an promote side shoots
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/006.jpg[/img]

Beautiful Dwarf Orange started from seed
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/005.jpg[/img]

Recovering Coleus
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/004.jpg[/img]

Left Mini Yellow Bell Pepper - Right Chinese Elm Tree Seedlings
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/003.jpg[/img]

Happy Dwarf Banana and Pineapple
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/002.jpg[/img]

Taller of the two blueberries
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/1Stem11-7-12.jpg[/img]

Shorter one
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/MultiStem11-7-12.jpg[/img]

Two chinese elm seedlings (one will be culled)
[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/ChineseElmSeedling11-7-12.jpg[/img]

[tomc]

All your temperate woody plants will not survive without a dormant season. Bonsai growers have been trying for at least the past 75 years without success.

That said, you can propagate temperate woody plants under lights, they just won't survive long term there.

[Maineah_John]

All your temperate woody plants will not survive without a dormant season. Bonsai growers have been trying for at least the past 75 years without success.

That said, you can propagate temperate woody plants under lights, they just won't survive long term there.

Vary true. Next year will be my first year attempting to over wintering a few trees and the Goji berry on an enclosed porch. Luckily some do not need extended periods of dormancy. For example several variates of elm only need 1 month to continue growing healthy. This means some of the more sensitive plants in my collection could be put into dormancy in early fall and taken back inside before the harsh part of winter arrives. At least in theory this should work. :)

[Maineah_John]

Do not order seeds or plants from anywhere over seas if you live in the USA.

Today a Police officer showed up at my door step to inform me it was illegal to have imported the dwarf tree seeds I'd ordered back in May of this year. (Funny how long it took them) I had no clue about this or that the seller was even from over seas it was just some random purchase I'd made from ebay.

Long story short the Officer was vary nice and explained I wasn't in any trouble and that he just needed the plants for incineration. This was all to stop the possibility of foreign plant disease from spreading to the united states.

So if your an ebay seller from a foreign country please do not sell seeds or plants to Americans!

[applestar]

Wow that must have been a shock for you.

I love experimenting like this, too. Looking at the photos, I'm wondering how far above the plants the light fixtures are? My bananas and pineapples are no more than 4-6" at most from T-5 tubes, closer for T-8's and T-12's. The cucumber for sure will need to be as close to the lights as possible without getting burned. I have some incidental photos in my winter tomato thread in the tomto forum.

The pineapple and cucumber should stay above 60°F, and banana as well if you want it to continue to grow. And it's a mistake to keep them in the same container since the banana will continue to grow a leaf per week while the pineapple will essentially shut down for the winter.

I was going to try winter indoor Cucumber too, but I've run out of room. I think it will do better with temps above 70°F -- definitely raise it and pineapple to highest level. IMHO.

I'm thinking the blueberries could have stayed outside with good protection.

Also, are you growing them with hydroculture? -- noting the clay medium.

--ETA--
Just zoomed into the thermometer. Does it say 78°F?
Strawberry and citrus as well as the hardwoods will do better at 50's or as close to that as possible in the low 60's during the winter (even those temps aren't optimum but I know they'll manage if kept this way.)

[Maineah_John]

Wow that must have been a shock for you. :shock:

I love experimenting like this, too. Looking at the photos, I'm wondering how far above the plants the light fixtures are? My bananas and pineapples are no more than 4-6" at most from T-5 tubes, closer for T-8's and T-12's. The cucumber for sure will need to be as close to the lights as possible without getting burned. I have some incidental photos in my winter tomato thread in the tomto forum.

Yes it really was a shocker in deed. LOL
The light was raised for the pictures due to a glaring/focus issues. It is almost always within 3-6 inches above the plants.


The pineapple and cucumber should stay above 60°F, and banana as well if you want it to continue to grow. And it's a mistake to keep them in the same container since the banana will continue to grow a leaf per week while the pineapple will essentially shut down for the winter.

The pineapple has been steadily growing along side the banana almost it's entire life. Temps stay pretty steadily 70-80 degrees throughout the year so there is not fluctuation between spring/summer/fall temperatures nor does the lighting change at all since this is entirely an indoor operation.

I was going to try winter indoor Cucumber too, but I've run out of room. I think it will do better with temps above 70°F -- definitely raise it and pineapple to highest level. IMHO.

I'm thinking the blueberries could have stayed outside with good protection.

The blueberries were kind of an experiment this fall. I wanted to add a berry of some kind to the indoor garden after fall had already hit the local vegetation fairly severely. The leaves had all fallen off and the plants had gone into dormancy. A local blueberry grower had suggested to plant hard wood cuttings after dormancy started since blueberries in general are rather sensitive plants at least wild ones are. So I did take cuttings as well as transplanted plants. Both of which are just starting to leaf out after a month of being indoors.

Could they have stayed outside yep probably but what's the fun in that? :)

Also, are you growing them with hydroculture? -- noting the clay medium.

Nope, I did however buy the stuff to set up a few deep water culture buckets a while back just haven't gotten around to it yet or decided what plant to grow hydroponically. The hydroton is actually on top of the soil mix I use as sort of a mulch it cuts down on evaporation a lot.

If anyone is interested - My soil mix is roughly

50% ProMix Bx
25% composted cow manure
20% vermiculite
5% extra perlite (promix already has some)

Also if the plants need an extra boost of nutrients I water with General Organics BioThrive Grow/Bloom/Micro Which I totally endorse if you've never tried it before do so it's great :).

It's a really nice fluffy organic mix that wont clod when wet. The way I test this is soaking some soil dripping wet, squeezing all the water out, then pinch the soil ball if it either does not form a soil ball (immediately falls apart) or does a little soil explosion the mix is good if not add more vermiculite.

--ETA--
Just zoomed into the thermometer. Does it say 78°F?
Strawberry and citrus as well as the hardwoods will do better at 50's or as close to that as possible in the low 60's during the winter (even those temps aren't optimum but I know they'll manage if kept this way.)

The temps can get out of hand sometimes. Most of the time though 70-80 degrees which has been just fine for the past 8 or so months with all kinds of different plants growing not just trees although the trees don't seem to have minded either. Either way if something can't handle the heat it'll have to go cuz low 70's are about as low as temps get in my room.

[applestar]

Some of these plants absolutely need rest period during the annual cycle -- typically in winter... especially deciduous hardwoods (other plants rest during drought, etc.) In other words, theoretically, they may seem OK and keep going for even a couple of years, but then they'll start to decline.

Pineapple and banana plants undergo renewal every 24-36 month cycle -- mother plant flower and fruit then die while the pups take over. So being able to maintain 70°F temp us probably a good thing. But I still think they can't share that little pot.

It would be interesting to hear how your collection performs over a period of several years.

Your potting mix recipe sounds pretty good, though I'm surprised by the amount of composted cow manure. I do add about 25% home made compost in my mixture but Its not as rich as that. maybe you are managing to get away with it with the bloom/fruit inducing supplement. We'll know more when they are mature enough to start producing.

Blueberries would need to be adjusted to lower pH but you probably know that.

...Still thinking that southern area gardeners have trouble finding strawberry varieties that they can grow, so you might need adapted variety for the conditions you describe... Do they grow strawberries in -- say --Hawaii? Is the problem related more to extreme high temps in Florida and Louisiana than lack of chill hours?

ACTUALLY the blueberries -- well they need the winter chill, but I've already mentioned that.

[Maineah_John]

Some of these plants absolutely need rest period during the annual cycle -- typically in winter... especially deciduous hardwoods (other plants rest during drought, etc.) In other words, theoretically, they may seem OK and keep going for even a couple of years, but then they'll start to decline.

Pineapple and banana plants undergo renewal every 24-36 month cycle -- mother plant flower and fruit then die while the pups take over. So being able to maintain 70°F temp us probably a good thing. But I still think they can't share that little pot.:wink:

It would be interesting to hear how your collection performs over a period of several years. 8)

Your potting mix recipe sounds pretty good, though I'm surprised by the amount of composted cow manure. I do add about 25% home made compost in my mixture but Its not as rich as that. maybe you are managing to get away with it with the bloom/fruit inducing supplement. We'll know more when they are mature enough to start producing.

Blueberries would need to be adjusted to lower pH but you probably know that.

...Still thinking that southern area gardeners have trouble finding strawberry varieties that they can grow, so you might need adapted variety for the conditions you describe... Do they grow strawberries in -- say --Hawaii? Is the problem related more to extreme high temps in Florida and Louisiana than lack of chill hours?

ACTUALLY the blueberries -- well they need the winter chill, but I've already mentioned that.

Sounds like half of the garden may need some adjustments....

As far as the pineapple / banana container goes it sort of breaks one of my main "golden" rules of not planting two plants in one container but it is saving space and as said before seems to be doing alright so far. Now I don't claim to know much about pineapples specifically this whole idea was brought on by Ray at the Praxxus55712 youtube channel. This guy grows all kinds of interesting and tropical plants indoors with giant CFL bulbs. He quite often reminds us (his viewers) that he does not do things by the books vary often. Anyways the point of this explanation is Ray was able to grow the pineapple top for a year or a year and a half (all indoors with cfl lighting) then it (the pineapple plant) did in fact produce another pineapple. He didn't do anything different than I'm doing accept his wasn't sharing a container with a banana. So this is all one big experiment where nothing is exactly as it should be. I'm just kinda winging it LOL.

To better explain his set up I tried to find you a video which shots how he has his lights set up which is the same as mine accept he uses CFL's and I use T5's and well of course he has a entire room.

Skip to about 2 min mark and you'll see the room or one of his rooms. The video doesn't have anything to do with the subject so there is no point in watching it unless of course you want to.

[url]https://youtu.be/-F53dYFmgUw[/url]

It would be interesting to hear how your collection performs over a period of several years. Cool

Hopefully this thread will be alive as long as the garden up and running.

Your potting mix recipe sounds pretty good, though I'm surprised by the amount of composted cow manure. I do add about 25% home made compost in my mixture but Its not as rich as that. maybe you are managing to get away with it with the bloom/fruit inducing supplement. We'll know more when they are mature enough to start producing.
On to plant hibernation :)

It may be helpful to note that the cow compost I use is just a generic bagged compost found at lowes for $3.00 per 40 lbs bag every year around spring time. It probably isn't the best stuff as far as compost is concerned but it does the job for seedling and on up to 2 month old plants. Everything else in the mix is soil-less containing no nutrients whatsoever.

I don't have a safe controlled area to let the more tropical and/or tree type plants "rest" for any significant length of time more than say a month or two in the fall. Maybe an enclosed porch around fall time?

...Still thinking that southern area gardeners have trouble finding strawberry varieties that they can grow, so you might need adapted variety for the conditions you describe... Do they grow strawberries in -- say --Hawaii? Is the problem related more to extreme high temps in Florida and Louisiana than lack of chill hours?

Honestly I can't answer that question... The 3 strawberries are a "ever bearing" variety from my understanding and the limited research I did do ever baring are the kinds most used in hydroponic gardens because they produce continually throughout the year. Heat is less of an issues with these varieties... So hopefully they do well if not the strawberries can always be replanted back outside next spring.

Blueberries would need to be adjusted to lower pH but you probably know that.

The blueberries will probably be transplanted outdoors next spring or at least one of them will be. How do you adjust soil acidity organically? This is something I've never done before and have no experience with. I'd planned on adding pine needles to the soil mix but as it turns out the vary common folk lore of pine needles being acidic is false.

This is exactly what this thread is meant for :) (Learning) both viewers and me as well. As said before I'm basically winging it if certain plants don't like the indoor environment provided it will be recorded here in this thread hopefully saving someone both time and money wasted.

ACTUALLY the blueberries -- well they need the winter chill, but I've already mentioned that.

I'm hoping to shorten the rest period or the "winter" down to a month or two in early fall this should in theory trick the plant into losing its leaves and going into dormancy just as it would normally in fall. Then it will be brought back in side regrown around the time snow flies around here. So lets say two or three months of dormancy then another month indoors to start to leaf (which is how long it's taken this year) so it should be like simulating spring except 5 months earlier than normal. Hopefully that makes sense.

Sorry if my wording sounds like a jumbled mess this is literally how I think and how I explain things in real life. It sometimes irritates people. [/quote]

[Maineah_John]

One note about the Blueberry plants. One has been planted in nothing but the moss growing around the blueberry plants. I'm not sure if it is some kind of sphagnum moss or some other kind. Either way we'll find out how well that works. :) It just seems like a fun experiment at the time. So why not right?

The second is planted in promix with a little cow compost mixed in and some of that same moss on top of the soil as sort of a mulch barrier to protect the soil from drying out to fast. This really helps indoors especially when temps get into the 80's quite often. This is pretty much a daily occurrence. Last summer temperature went into the low 90's a quite a few times because I hadn't gotten ventilation figured out.

And some random thoughts

The tent is becoming bothersome. I'd originally bought it to be able to run lights while asleep. That didn't happen and wont ever. Whatever the covering material is it holds heat really really well. So I might end up building a table and painting the wall white for reflectivity. That way I could get rid of the tent all together and have the plants up off of the floor. Not sure yet though this is in the early planning stages heck this project may get put on the back burner till next spring who knows.

Edit: One last thing Ha I edit threads a lot always having more to say :). Last week I planted some seeds and didn't label what they were. Somehow I'd totally forgotten about them on till yesterday. Soooo we have about 6 new mystery seedlings which may or may not be baby Goji Berries. Honestly that is my best guess but again that is all it is a guess. Word to the wise label your planters :)

Anyways that's all for now thanks for reading :)

[Maineah_John]

Mr. Cucumber is doing o so much better. Remember how sad it looked with the dead and dying leaves. The culprit is in fact it's own roots. The half gallon container is sitting in a little tub which collects water when watered. Well the roots grew right down into the water like a deep water culture hydroponic system. The bad thing is because it had done this some of the roots will die from suffocation.

Nonetheless Mr. Cucumber looks much better producing male flowers left an right

[img]https://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j382/johnny2pips/001-1.jpg[/img]

[applestar]

That's great. It looks like its ready to take off and vine, so I'd advise you to uppot it into its final large container now before it gets unwieldy. Lemon cuke vines can get pretty extensive so it will need adequate soil/root system to support it: ideally a 5 gal bucket or larger tub, but maybe at minimum 3 gal to get some kind of reasonable harvest going.

How do you plan to trellis it? I was going to put up some ceiling hooks and suspend/weave/macramé a fan-shaped string trellis tied to the bucket handle.

[ElizabethB]

As I am reading this thread I am thanking God that I live in south Louisiana with a year round growing season. I don't have to resort to such extreme measures to grow plants. One point to consider with your blueberries - they require very acidic soil pH 5 - 5 1/2. Most varieties are not self polinating and require 2 plants to produce fruit. Since your plants are indoors I do not know what you will need to do to polinate your fruit bearing plants. Obviously you do not have bees to do it for you. Interesting topic. Good luck to you all with your indoor gardening.

It is 60 degrees, blue bird sky, very low humidity. Walked out to my garden and harvested some sweet banana peppers and bell peppers. The last of my summer produce.

This southerner would have a hard time in north country.

[Maineah_John]

Sorry for the late reply

Photo's to follow no females yet though only males.

That's great. It looks like its ready to take off and vine, so I'd advise you to uppot it into its final large container now before it gets unwieldy. Lemon cuke vines can get pretty extensive so it will need adequate soil/root system to support it: ideally a 5 gal bucket or larger tub, but maybe at minimum 3 gal to get some kind of reasonable harvest going.

How do you plan to trellis it? I was going to put up some ceiling hooks and suspend/weave/macramé a fan-shaped string trellis tied to the bucket handle. 8)

The little cucumber has certainly started to take off. I fell behind in the transplanting department though. Hopefully today we'll get all the plants that need it transplanted into larger containers or at least as large as my little 2x4 foot grow room/closet will allow for. It is looking a bit malnourished from not having been fed any liquid nutrients yet.

I hope to build a small trellis to rest against the back of the tent. It's still quite small though not even 1' still holding up on it's own strength (not for long).

As I am reading this thread I am thanking God that I live in south Louisiana with a year round growing season. I don't have to resort to such extreme measures to grow plants. One point to consider with your blueberries - they require very acidic soil pH 5 - 5 1/2. Most varieties are not self polinating and require 2 plants to produce fruit. Since your plants are indoors I do not know what you will need to do to polinate your fruit bearing plants. Obviously you do not have bees to do it for you. Interesting topic. Good luck to you all with your indoor gardening.

It is 60 degrees, blue bird sky, very low humidity. Walked out to my garden and harvested some sweet banana peppers and bell peppers. The last of my summer produce.

This southerner would have a hard time in north country.

Must be nice! :) We've had snow a few times this year already. Luckily none of it stuck. Hopefully for Christmas and jan/feb though. Last year we didn't get snow till a few days before Christmas then it all melted in February. Mildest winter I've experienced in 22 years.

Even if I lived somewhere with a all year growing season I'd probably still have a small indoor garden. It's just so fun and different from what everyone else does.

I had no clue blueberries needed pollination from separate plants. Luckily the two I have are completely different varieties. One is a common Maine low bush and the other what I would call a medium or wild high bush. Reason being the older plants were about waste height. Not as tall as your common "commercial" type blueberry but still larger than what is used for commercial low bush around here.

My soil mix is based of peat moss/manure/vermiculte if that isn't acidic enough it might need watering with vinegar water. Vinegar is a natural ph down? This should adjust the soil ph enough for the blueberries to be happy. At least I hope anyways. Guess we'll have to find out wont we?

Just as much as you'd have a tough time adjusting to the cold here I'd have a tough time adjusting to the heat/humidity there. Plus I love snow!

[Maineah_John]

Going to pick up cotton seed meal for the blueberries asap!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4ddVoMCtzY

[ElizabethB]

Elemental sulfur is the best for reducing pH. DO test your soil first. You need a starting point. I did a comparison study of test kits compared to lab test. For pH - meters produced the most accurate results when the directions were followed. Tablet and paper strip kits were seriously off the mark. Of course your best bet is a lab test through your county extension office. I understand that not all offices are as responsive as mine. So don't beat me up for making the suggestion. Blueberries need a pH of 5 - 5 1/2. Very acidic. I would avoid the vinegar because you have no application ratio. Elemental sulfur applied at the rate of 1 lb per 100 square feet will reduce the pH by one point. Since you are container gardening your application rate will be extremely small. Do not expect instant results it takes time. With the exception of ornamental plants and herbs my experience with container gardening is limited.

Hopefully some of the more experienced container gardeners will be able to help you. pH is an issue for blueberries whether in a container or in the garden.