Dwarf Black Olive Bonsai ~ Opinions Please

[MagicDan]

My daughter and her finance just sent me a great birthday present! I got a Dwarf Black Olive (Atchison Bucida Spinosa)
They got it as an eBay auction from Hirt's Gardens in Ohio. It came packaged very nicely and looks very healthy.

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4028.jpg[/img]

Lots of unresticted growth!!

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4029.jpg[/img]

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4030.jpg[/img]

This is a shot looking down....

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4031.jpg[/img]

OK Here's where I'd like some opinions. I'm sure I could do some wiring and pruning and end up with a very nice informal upright. The tree has plenty of opportunities for that!

However, when I took it out of the original pot and got rid of the original dirt I got a good look at the root system. What I saw made me start thinking of other possibilities.

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4032.jpg[/img]
Notice how the trunk takes a right angle...

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4033.jpg[/img]

[img]https://members.aol.com/pixatebay/pix/100_4034.jpg[/img]

Now imagine placing that portion of the trunk in a vertical (rather than horizontal) position and the tree becomes a candidate for a cascade style.

OK Put your thinking caps on and imagine the outcome. Tell me what you think. (ynot...get to work on photoshop!!)

Looking forward to your input.

MD

[MagicDan]

Just had another thought. Should I wait a few months for the tree to acclimate to my house before I do any pruning or wiring? I have taken the tree from its original nursery pot to a larger training pot with good bonsai soil. I was thinking I'd just let it grow a while and make sure it stays healthy before doing anything to it.

Lots of people are looking at the post... nobody is replying. C'mon people... lets hear what you have to say. Don't be shy.

[ynot]

Dan,
I promise I have more ideas than time at the moment...{and I only just saw this.}

Your absolutely right about their being many potential futures with this one..

More later,
ynot

[ynot]

Dan,
Just had time to peek at these pics again.

Sorry, I can't get a thing done do to the angles of these

To work any photoshop type stuff on this I would need a picture from {What you consider the front [s],} And a plain background.

I hope others are willing to give it a shot also as I am sure my kindergarten skills grow tiresome.

No goofy angles please, A picure taken from just about level with the soil/top of the pot is the best [initial] approach.

Are you looking to imcrease it's size/girth any... or do you mean to start styling from here?
Final size considrations/expectations...?

[I am a bit concerned about the state of the roots... There's not much to them.... ...]
More questions as I think of them...

ynot

[MagicDan]

ynot,

I will take some new pics when I get home and post them ASAP so you can play!

I'm thinking informal upright. The main upright branch is leaning back at the moment so I'd have to wire it and bring it back forward. Then clear off some of the lower branches to give it a cleaner look. Adhering to the informal upright "rules"...

My initial concern is keeping it healthy atm. When you see the new photos you will see I haven't wired it into a bonsai pot yet. Just put it into a newer pot with some good bonsai soil for now.

[Gnome]

Dan,

I purchased one of these from a seller on E-bay. It arrived in good condition and I too re-potted it into better soil. Sadly, I had no luck with it and it slowly declined. I hope you have more luck with it than I did. It seems to be promising material.

Don't be too quick to cut off lower branches even if you do not envision them as part of the final design. They are useful as "sacrifice" or "escape" branches (same thing) in that they help to thicken the trunk and increase taper. You also limit your design options should you revise your concept of this plant or part of it dies. This is a mistake that is easy to make (I have in the past) if you are too anxious.

You alluded to the possibility of pursuing a cascade. Putting aside the issue of the suitability of this species for this style, your pictures don't show how the horizontal root relates to the rest of the plant. I take it that you have potted it, so it is too late to get more pictures. Perhaps you have others that you did not post.

Norm

[MagicDan]

Norm,

Thanks for the input. At this point I don't plan to do much of anything to the tree. Just want to keep it healthy and now that I hear about your experience I will worry even more!!

I know that this type of tree is not known for a cascade but when I saw the 90 degree bend in the root, I tipped the tree 90 degrees and realized it didn't look too bad as a cascade.

I think it will have many more possibilities as an informal upright.

Don't be too quick to cut off lower branches even if you do not envision them as part of the final design. They are useful as "sacrifice" or "escape" branches (same thing) in that they help to thicken the trunk and increase taper. You also limit your design options should you revise your concept of this plant or part of it dies. This is a mistake that is easy to make (I have in the past) if you are too anxious.

Great advice! I have some other trees that have "unwanted" limbs just for that purpose. Anybody that is new to bonsai has to realize that the finished product might be years away. I think I killed a couple of trees in my zest to make it look just right too quickly.

MD

[ynot]

MD,
Cool, No hurries on the pics..

... The main upright branch is leaning back at the moment so I'd have to wire it and bring it back forward.

Depending on how this looks, Sometimes issues like this can be corrected just by changing the front/planting angle [or some combination thereof].

I totally agree w/ the excellent advice Gnome has posted about what to be aware of wrt to premature pruning [wrt limiting your options later.]
[Count me in the 'been there-done that' club....]

As to the planting angle you can also prop the pot up at different angles and rotate it to see if anything stands out as a potential front.... {since I know your sittng there staring at it anyway...lol }

later
ynot

[ynot]

MD,
I have a windswept/ slanting virt for you and a semi cascade [Well.... Semi- Something.....]

No time to upload them today but I thought you should know there are some virts coming for you...[GRRRRR dial-up..... Tis temporary.....]

Later on,
ynot

[ynot]

MD,

Here's a pair of virts for you, Nothing spectacular....But a few ideas to start with.


Warning: VERY ROUGH
[url=https://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mdoliveswda7.jpg][img]https://img103.imageshack.us/img103/1117/mdoliveswda7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=https://img383.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mdsemicascadeterriblelovl5.jpg][img]https://img383.imageshack.us/img383/589/mdsemicascadeterriblelovl5.th.jpg[/img][/url]

OOPS!
I should have lowered the top on the semi-cascade quite a bit but I loaded it before I noticed...[I may fix it if I get time.]


I didn't have the opportunity to use my cpu for this so I was a bit unfamiliar with the program I used....So, If you see any really good design ideas/concepts that I didn't add please assume that I just couldn't figure out how to do it..lol .

ynot

[MagicDan]

I'm starting to get a little worried about my newest addition. The leaves are very dry and starting to fall off. Doesn't look like any new growth at all. I've got it in bonsai soil and I'm watering it as it should be watered... At least I think I'm doing it correctly

It is located in our "Spa Room". This room has southern exposure so it gets the max sunlight it can at this time of the year. The temp in the room stays around 60-65 so that shouldn't be an issue.

I can't think of any other place I could put it in our house where it would get any more sunlight. Might be a little warmer but no sunnier.

Any thoughts about what else I can do to keep it healthy?

MD

[Gnome]

Dan,

Sorry, as I said I killed mine. I even had it outside. The only thought I might offer is something that Ynot has pointed out several times. What might seem like sufficient light to you is rather dim to plants. Perhaps some supplemental lighting might help.

Norm

[MagicDan]

Norm,

Thanks for the input. The tree gets a fair amount of sunshine for this time of year as it's a south facing room. There is also a light directly above the tree that is on once the sun goes down until we go to bed. It's not a flourescent and I think that's what plant lights are, aren't they? Maybe I'll try to get a plant light when I go out shopping today.

MD

[Gnome]

Dan,

Conventional incandescent bulbs are a poor choice, they produce too little light energy relative to the heat that they produce. Fluorescents are your best choice unless you want to go to the expense and trouble of providing high intensity lighting.

[url]https://bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/IndoorLight.html[/url]
[url]https://bonsaihunk.8m.com/WikleArticle.html[/url]
[url]https://bonsaihunk.8m.com/info/MetalHalides.html[/url]

Norm

[MagicDan]

Norm,

Thanks for the links on lighting. I'll check them out.

MD