need help choosing a groundcover

[cinnamon1916]

I would like to redesign my backyard (full sun-west side of the house) into a more suitable sitting area. Our built in bar-b-que is back there, so I have planted a row of populars behind the bar-b-que to block the harsh evening sun. (The way it is now, we can't even use the bar-b-que until after 8p.m.) I also planted a friutless mulberry in the yard area to provide shade for the sitting area during the mid-day. I am now considering replacing the existing grass with some type of short, dense groundcover as the area will now be hard to get a lawnmower around things. The bar-b-que sits in an area surrounded by pea gravel and I have a beautiful 3-4 ft hedge of upright fuscia on one side. I was hoping for something thick, low, soft and that can take some foot traffic. Any suggestions? I live in Oregon, zone 8-9. Thanks for any advice.

[Newt]

Hi Cinnamon,

It sounds lovely. I'm not sure from your description if you will need a stepable groundcover for full sun or shade with the trees you've planted. If it's full sun, one of the creeping thymes come to mind. Here's a couple of helpful sites.
https://stepables.com/
https://classygroundcovers.com/

Newt

[cinnamon1916]

thank you. I will check these out. I was also thinking of thyme! I will try to put a pic in once finished.

[Newt]

You are very welcome! I would love to see a picture.

Newt

[Guest]

Hi Cinnamon,

It sounds lovely. I'm not sure from your description if you will need a stepable groundcover for full sun or shade with the trees you've planted. If it's full sun, one of the creeping thymes come to mind. Here's a couple of helpful sites.
https://stepables.com/
https://classygroundcovers.com/

Newt

I would use perewinkle campanula blueclips english violets they are quite lovely plants they have blue flowers in the spring and fall if you like white plants try lily of the valley

[Newt]

In zone 8 periwinkle can become invasive. Lily of the valley and English violets can also become invasive and soon get out of control, even if contained and can be difficult to remove.

Newt

[opabinia51]

Interesting, I didn't know that Newt, thanks a lot.

We definately need to keep this sort of thing in mind when planting. Check out your local Invasive's list (All states of Provinces have them) before planting.

I have a few invasives in my gardens but, I am a very diligent gardener and keep on top of them.

[Guest]

I worked with and shipped lots of ground covers .thats why they are called ground covers that grow where nothing else does .periwinkle, lily of the valley ,etc. If nurseries didt sell plants they would go bankrupt .So I guess what I got to say is there is no plant that is invasive unless its unattended Except the tree of heaven I even took cuttings from the trumpet vine and took 1000 of cuttings and when they rooted we sold them The best way to grow a trumpet vine is up a post or dead tree stock and pruned every year Sub phlox, pachysandra, lanium ,perewinkle are a few that cccome to mind right now

[Newt]

Sharon, you said,

thats why they are called ground covers that grow where nothing else does - periwinkle, lily of the valley, etc.

Groundcover isn't called groundcover because it will grow where nothing else does, or seems to. The definition of groundcover from Botany.com
https://www.botany.com/16.gr.htm

GROUND COVER: Refers to low-growing or trailing plants that are used to carpet the ground, as underneath trees or as an overplanting for bulbs.

You said,

So I guess what I got to say is there is no plant that is invasive unless its unattended

That isn't true at all. If you remember the trumpet vine thread, this plant is native to North America, but can be invasive in the garden due to it's extensive and tenacious root system. I tended to the ones that I inherited every year, yet they invaded all over the garden from underground roots. Some plants become invasive from their seeds spread by birds, mammals, or wind while others can be invasive from their roots. The definition of invasive from Webster's dictionary
https://webster.com/dictionary/invasive

2 : tending to spread; especially : tending to invade
3 : tending to infringe

As far as the plants in question being tended to, there is no guarantee that will happen. People sell their property to other people that may not care for the plant material or have the knowledge of what to do to keep it contained. Others plant something and don't realize that it can be invasive. I have a friend who owns a large expanse of wooded property with a stream. His landscaper planted periwinkle aka vinca around the mailbox and it has escaped. It is now growing out of control in the wooded stream area, smothering other native plants such as woodland ginger. A large Japanese honeysuckle would need every berry removed so the birds don't spread the plants. If it's growing on a pergola where the top can't be reached for constant pruning, it can, and will be spread by the birds.

In some situations I recommend groundcovers that form clumps and do not spread by roots, runners or seed. I'm not saying to only plant natives, but that consideration should be made for plants that won't invade the environment where it's planted.

Here are some selected quotes from Invasive.org which is a joint project of The Bugwood Network, USDA Forest Service and USDA APHIS PPQ.
https://www.invasive.org/eastern/

A biological invasion of non-native plants is spreading into our nations' fields, pastures, forests, wetlands and waterways, natural areas, and right-of-ways. Variously referred to as exotic, nonnative, alien, noxious, or non-indigenous weeds, invasive plants impact native plant and animal communities by displacing native vegetation and disrupting habitats as they become established and spread over time.

Some of the plants on this list are often found in ornamental plantings and landscapes. In fact, many non-native plants introduced for horticultural and agricultural use now pose a serious ecological threat in the absence of their natural predators and control agents. This publication will aid landowners, foresters, resource managers, and the general public in becoming familiar with invasive plants in their area to help protect our environment from the economic and ecological impacts of these biological pollutants.

You said,

The best way to grow a trumpet vine is up a post or dead tree stock and pruned every year

I refer you to this thread where I posted on May 16, 2006 and December 7, 2006, and explain all about this native that CAN be invasive.
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1735

Here is the USDA (United States Department of Agricultural) site, with a map, that lists where this plant is invasive.
https://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch?keywordquery=campsis+radicans&mode=sciname&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

If nurseries didt sell plants they would go bankrupt.

There is the point of ethics. Selling plants that are invasive is not ethical. Many nurseries sell Japanese honeysuckle and it's listed as an invasive, but they sell it anyway. Many nurseries sell plants, stay in business and don't sell known invasives.

Here is a link to find DNR (Department of Natural Resources) home pages for the United States and Canada. https://www.walleyehunter.com/dnrmap.html

You said,

Sub phlox, pachysandra, lamium, periwinkle are a few that come to mind right now" (spelling corrections made by moderator).

By "Sub phlox" I'm thinking you mean Phlox subulata, of which there are several varieties. Here is the USDA (United States Department of Agricultural) site, with a map, that lists where this plant is invasive.
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PHSU3

Pachysandra we've discussed before on another thread. There is a native that is NOT invasive and a non-native that is.
Pachysandra procumbens aka Allegheny spurge is native and is NOT invasive.

Pachysandra terminalis aka Japanese pachysandra is NOT native and can be invasive. Here is the USDA (United States Department of Agricultural) site, with a map, that lists where this plant is invasive.
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=PATE11

Lily-of-the-valley aka European lily-of-the-valley aka Convallaria majalis is also considered invasive by the USDA. Here is the USDA (United States Department of Agricultural) site, with a map, that lists where this plant is invasive.
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=COMA7

American lily-of-the-valley aka Convallaria majuscula is considered threatened in these areas by the USDA.
https://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=COMA19

There are native and introduced varieties of Lamium. Natives are Lamium album aka white deadnettle, Lamium amplexicaule aka henbit deadnettle, Lamium maculatum aka spotted henbit and Lamium purpureum aka purple deadnettle are natives so you need to know which one you are purchasing and planting to know if it's invasive.

Here is one of many site where you can search to find what is invasive. There are many helpful links here.
https://www.invasive.org/

Newt