MPRidge
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My Juniper, a goner; or just cringing from my mother's care?

Ok, here is the story, my mother thinking she has a green thumb got a Bonsai. Which as history with my family at least under her care has shown a year or so then a quick death.

The age of the Bonsai is in question, it is probably a year old, at least in her possession.

I have been asked to take care of it, because she doesn't have a time as a retiree to take care of it. :roll:

It may be dead for all intended purposes, but I want people's advise.

I have soaked the leaves with a spray bottle, and soaked the roots, no bubbles came up so the water was pretty dry, or the roots are almost dead. I kept it in the water for 5 minutes hoping to saturate the roots themselves.

Here is a photo. Yes it is brown, there is some green but very little... I may be able to rescue the plant, but I am not sure. It may be a lost cause. She wants the plant back if I can rescue it... I'm tempted to say it's mine... but if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated.

[img]https://www.cyberpawz.com/images/Others/Bonsai%20Blah!.JPG[/img]

MPRidge
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38 views and no suggestions? I do need help.

josh1812@live.com
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Junipers like Christmas trees are still green but already dead sadly there is no hope for this tree you can double check by scratching the bark off and seeing if there is any green.
HI

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Gnome
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MPRidge,
38 views and no suggestions? I do need help.
Sorry about that but keep in mind that yesterday was a holiday. I for one was away from about mid-day. Also, perhaps others were reluctant to be the bearer of bad news but Junipers seldom recover once they get to looking like this. There are numerous threads about dead Junipers on this board and the recurring themes are usually a small tree purchased at a box store with no instructions. The well meaning owner often keeps it inside, which is all but a death sentence for a Juniper. Then it is either under or over watered and when it gets all brown and crispy the distraught owner seeks advice. Unfortunately, by this time the tree is, as you surmised, past the point of no return.

Junipers are not difficult trees to keep if the basics are adhered to but they are not very forgiving when mistreated. If you would like some suggestions for a new tree we would be glad to help.

Norm

MPRidge
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Gnome wrote:MPRidge,
38 views and no suggestions? I do need help.
Sorry about that but keep in mind that yesterday was a holiday. I for one was away from about mid-day. Also, perhaps others were reluctant to be the bearer of bad news but Junipers seldom recover once they get to looking like this. There are numerous threads about dead Junipers on this board and the recurring themes are usually a small tree purchased at a box store with no instructions. The well meaning owner often keeps it inside, which is all but a death sentence for a Juniper. Then it is either under or over watered and when it gets all brown and crispy the distraught owner seeks advice. Unfortunately, by this time the tree is, as you surmised, past the point of no return.

Junipers are not difficult trees to keep if the basics are adhered to but they are not very forgiving when mistreated. If you would like some suggestions for a new tree we would be glad to help.

Norm
Well I'm willing to see if I can't resurrect it if I can, as you said, it may be impossible, but I'm willing to try.

As for another type of Bonsai, I'd be interested, although if I get it, it is going to be for me, not my mother, because she doesn't have the time to go and take care of it, and since I am newly unemployed I'll have plenty of time.

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MPRidge,
As for another type of Bonsai, I'd be interested,
Are you interested in traditional species that are kept outside or tropicals that can spend some time indoors? Also it would help to know where, in general, you are located.

Norm

MPRidge
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Gnome wrote:MPRidge,
As for another type of Bonsai, I'd be interested,
Are you interested in traditional species that are kept outside or tropicals that can spend some time indoors? Also it would help to know where, in general, you are located.

Norm
I'm in Mass, and I'm looking for something that can stay outside in the warm seasons and inside during the winter. Partial sun would be a plus due to the living quarters.

Any suggestions?

linlaoboo
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i got a juniper from the internet without any instructions and lack of research on my part. Had it shipped to my dad as a gift only for it to die growing indoors next to a window so I've seen this 1st hand. As to a suitable bonsai based on your description, try ficus bonsai. Places around me sell decent sized and trained ficus retusa, tiger bark, golden gate and nitida for as low as $17.
ficus, maple, elm, juniper, pine

CrimsonArrow
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MPRidge wrote:
Gnome wrote:MPRidge,
As for another type of Bonsai, I'd be interested,
Are you interested in traditional species that are kept outside or tropicals that can spend some time indoors? Also it would help to know where, in general, you are located.

Norm
I'm in Mass, and I'm looking for something that can stay outside in the warm seasons and inside during the winter. Partial sun would be a plus due to the living quarters.

Any suggestions?
Ficus are quite hardy and they take a lot of abuse. You can keep them outdoors in the summer and since they are tropical, they would need to be indoor for the winters.

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MPRidge,

Schefflera is another choice. If you like the succulents, like Jade Plants or Portulacaria, they are easy to keep and do well inside although they are not traditional bonsai species. You might consider Fukien Tea, but I have never tried one so I'm not speaking from experience there.

Pomegranate and Rosemary are two plants that I keep outside in summer but inside during winter. They really prefer a cool location when inside though.

I've also done a 'split season' with Chinese Elms. The tree is allowed to go dormant outside as with other deciduous trees but brought inside early. I've brought one in around Christmas last year and all is well. You will need good lighting for this though. In fact supplemental lighting is pretty much a necessity for indoor plants to do well unless you are lucky enough to have an excellent southern exposure and a bay window or similar.

Norm
Last edited by Gnome on Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MPRidge
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Gnome wrote:MPRidge,

Schefflera is another choice. If you like the succulents, like Jade Plants or Portulacaria, they are easy to keep and do well inside although they are not traditional bonsai species. You might consider Fukien Tea, but I have never tried one so I'm not speaking from experience there.

Pomegranate and Rosemary are two plants that I keep outside in summer but inside during winter. They really prefer a cool location when inside though.

I've also done a 'split season' with Chinese Elms. The tree is allowed to go dormant outside as with other deciduous trees but brought inside much early. I've brought one in around Christmas last year and all is well. You will need good lighting for this though. In fact supplemental lighting is pretty much a necessity for indoor plants to do well unless you are lucky enough to have an excellent southern exposure and a bay window or similar.

Norm
With the Pomegranate, or Rosemary, what is considered cool inside? And what temperatures can they take outside?

MPRidge
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Let me explain something, before you respond...

I am looking for a tree that I can groom and give to my next generation if need be, and not really worry about them killing it by accident, at least if they take care of it.

I want a tree that can be taken care of in doors during the winter, and outdoors during the summer, or in a greenhouse setting if possible, since when I move next that is probably where I am going to be putting most of my plants.

linlaoboo
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A tree aint gonna take care of itself that's for sure, you or your next gen will have to give some effort no matter what and the aforementioned trees fit your description. Although one of my Scheffs just got baked under the 100F sun yesterday =(.

Another thing about ficus's is that they are easily propagated so even if the mother plant dies, you'd have enough to pass around all your friends and neighbors if you put the cuttings that are large enough to good use.
ficus, maple, elm, juniper, pine

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MPRidge,
With the Pomegranate, or Rosemary, what is considered cool inside? And what temperatures can they take outside?
Outside; both can tolerate fairly low temperatures but I do not allow them to freeze. When it gets too cold outside I bring them into an unheated garage. As winter progresses and it approaches freezing in the garage, they are shifted to a cool basement. They could stay there all winter under fluorescents or eventually moved to a brighter, warmer location to begin growing. By this time it is well past the new year.

As far as actual temperatures inside; different sources give different numbers but probably the cooler the better especially for the Pomegranate which will shed it's leaves and go truly dormant. Pomegranate can stay dormant all winter if you have the right location.

Rosemary will not go fully dormant but a rest period certainly would not hurt. Again, I don't think you can get it too cold in your home. Rather keep them as cool as you can manage. A greenhouse would really be a big help with these types of plants.
I am looking for a tree that I can groom and give to my next generation if need be, and not really worry about them killing it by accident, at least if they take care of it.

I want a tree that can be taken care of in doors during the winter, and outdoors during the summer, or in a greenhouse setting if possible, since when I move next that is probably where I am going to be putting most of my plants.
Again, Ficus is a good choice but will not tolerate freezing. Between the summer and the cooler months in the greenhouse it could stay under natural light most of the year only being moved inside for the coldest months.

Overall though, I am very partial to Chinese Elm. They can be grown outside in summer and, provided you allow a rest period, be brought inside under appropriate lighting. This plant would also be happy in the greenhouse over the winter, as would the previously mentioned Pomegranate and Rosemary. With the Rosemary you get the added benefit of the occasional pruning to be used for cooking.

Most any of the traditional bonsai material can be kept as you describe, outside in summer and in a cold greenhouse over the winter. Although deciduous material will, of course, lose their leaves.

Norm

MPRidge
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Gnome wrote:MPRidge,
With the Pomegranate, or Rosemary, what is considered cool inside? And what temperatures can they take outside?
Outside; both can tolerate fairly low temperatures but I do not allow them to freeze. When it gets too cold outside I bring them into an unheated garage. As winter progresses and it approaches freezing in the garage, they are shifted to a cool basement. They could stay there all winter under fluorescents or eventually moved to a brighter, warmer location to begin growing. By this time it is well past the new year.

As far as actual temperatures inside; different sources give different numbers but probably the cooler the better especially for the Pomegranate which will shed it's leaves and go truly dormant. Pomegranate can stay dormant all winter if you have the right location.

Rosemary will not go fully dormant but a rest period certainly would not hurt. Again, I don't think you can get it too cold in your home. Rather keep them as cool as you can manage. A greenhouse would really be a big help with these types of plants.
I am looking for a tree that I can groom and give to my next generation if need be, and not really worry about them killing it by accident, at least if they take care of it.

I want a tree that can be taken care of in doors during the winter, and outdoors during the summer, or in a greenhouse setting if possible, since when I move next that is probably where I am going to be putting most of my plants.
Again, Ficus is a good choice but will not tolerate freezing. Between the summer and the cooler months in the greenhouse it could stay under natural light most of the year only being moved inside for the coldest months.

Overall though, I am very partial to Chinese Elm. They can be grown outside in summer and, provided you allow a rest period, be brought inside under appropriate lighting. This plant would also be happy in the greenhouse over the winter, as would the previously mentioned Pomegranate and Rosemary. With the Rosemary you get the added benefit of the occasional pruning to be used for cooking.

Most any of the traditional bonsai material can be kept as you describe, outside in summer and in a cold greenhouse over the winter. Although deciduous material will, of course, lose their leaves.

Norm
For the Chinese Elm, you said as long as you give it a rest period, what do you mean about that?

MPRidge
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Also, I have to ask, because I am looking for a Bonsai for me... I saw a Bonsai a while back that had a beautiful polished looking trunk, the tree itself had small leaves green I believe, and it was "molded" and sculpted to look like a traditional bonsai. multiple tiers, with the bushes separated by gaps.

It was 50 years old, they wanted $3,000 for it, so needless to say I wasn't going to try my first attempts with something that old or expensive.

With the limited description I gave do you know what it is, and would it be a good bonsai for me? With the prerequisite described before hand?

josh1812@live.com
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To tell you the truth bonsai per your specifications are very very expensive at your level i would suggest buying what are known as pre-bonsai to develop your skills before trying on more expensive material here are a few links that have good prices.

miamitropicalbonsai.com/
https://www.bonsaiboy.com/
HI

MPRidge
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josh1812@live.com wrote:To tell you the truth bonsai per your specifications are very very expensive at your level i would suggest buying what are known as pre-bonsai to develop your skills before trying on more expensive material here are a few links that have good prices.

miamitropicalbonsai.com/
https://www.bonsaiboy.com/
For a later date though, I would like to know what I was looking at. Thanks for the link.

linlaoboo
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I thought he wanted to keep in indoors during winter and not leave it outdoors to freeze .. . I keep my ficus indoors by a south facing window between November to April.
Gnome wrote:MPRidge,

Again, Ficus is a good choice but will not tolerate freezing. Between the summer and the cooler months in the greenhouse it could stay under natural light most of the year only being moved inside for the coldest months.
ficus, maple, elm, juniper, pine

Marsman
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MPRidge wrote:I'm in Mass, and I'm looking for something that can stay outside in the warm seasons and inside during the winter. Partial sun would be a plus due to the living quarters.

Any suggestions?
Massachusetts has a nice bonsai shop called [url=https://www.nebonsai.com/mm5/merchant.mvc]New England Bonsai[/url] in [url=https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=new+england+bonsai&fb=1&gl=us&hq=new+england+bonsai&cid=0,0,13941133323118495912&ei=h-c1TJvwBIifnQf8-qU0&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQnwIwAA]Bellingham[/url]. Great place to browse around and ask questions.

Where in Mass are you located. I live close to the border, just outside of Hartford, CT.

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MPRidge,
For the Chinese Elm, you said as long as you give it a rest period, what do you mean about that?
Outside spring, summer and fall allowing the tree to experience the shortening of days that occurs after the summer solstice. Outside through the early frosts and even a few hard freezes, then into my unheated garage with other trees. So far, this is how I would handle any deciduous material. Here's the difference, around the first of the year bring it inside where it will experience an early spring. When spring really comes around, it's back outside. So you see that the tree only spends around three months inside.

This is something I have read about and last year tried for the first time. Everything worked out OK and the little Elm is fine. I'm not sure I'll repeat it this year though. Doing this adds another layer of complexity for a limited return. Three months of less than spectacular growth just does not seem worth it. If I had an excellent southern exposure or HID lighting it might be different but as things stand now I only use fluorescents indoors. Just not sure it's worth going to the extra trouble when the tree would be just as happy to stay dormant the extra time.

Norm

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MPRidge,
Also, I have to ask, because I am looking for a Bonsai for me... I saw a Bonsai a while back that had a beautiful polished looking trunk, the tree itself had small leaves green I believe, and it was "molded" and sculpted to look like a traditional bonsai. multiple tiers, with the bushes separated by gaps.

It was 50 years old, they wanted $3,000 for it, so needless to say I wasn't going to try my first attempts with something that old or expensive.

With the limited description I gave do you know what it is, and would it be a good bonsai for me? With the prerequisite described before hand?
Sounds like a mature Juniper with deadwood.

[img]https://www.artofbonsai.org/galleries/images/stemberger/stemberger_itoigawa_juniper.jpg[/img]

Norm

MPRidge
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Marsman wrote:
MPRidge wrote:I'm in Mass, and I'm looking for something that can stay outside in the warm seasons and inside during the winter. Partial sun would be a plus due to the living quarters.

Any suggestions?
Massachusetts has a nice bonsai shop called [url=https://www.nebonsai.com/mm5/merchant.mvc]New England Bonsai[/url] in [url=https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rlz=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=new+england+bonsai&fb=1&gl=us&hq=new+england+bonsai&cid=0,0,13941133323118495912&ei=h-c1TJvwBIifnQf8-qU0&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQnwIwAA]Bellingham[/url]. Great place to browse around and ask questions.

Where in Mass are you located. I live close to the border, just outside of Hartford, CT.
I'm on the other side, I'm closer to NH... I live 15 min away from it.

MPRidge
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Gnome wrote:MPRidge,
Also, I have to ask, because I am looking for a Bonsai for me... I saw a Bonsai a while back that had a beautiful polished looking trunk, the tree itself had small leaves green I believe, and it was "molded" and sculpted to look like a traditional bonsai. multiple tiers, with the bushes separated by gaps.

It was 50 years old, they wanted $3,000 for it, so needless to say I wasn't going to try my first attempts with something that old or expensive.

With the limited description I gave do you know what it is, and would it be a good bonsai for me? With the prerequisite described before hand?
Sounds like a mature Juniper with deadwood.

[img]https://www.artofbonsai.org/galleries/images/stemberger/stemberger_itoigawa_juniper.jpg[/img]

Norm
Deadwood? Is that a state of the wood, or is it the type of tree?

Marsman
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MPRidge wrote:Deadwood? Is that a state of the wood, or is it the type of tree?
The deadwood, white colored on this juniper, is dead. You can see the live brown/cinnamon colored veins.

MPRidge
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Marsman wrote:
MPRidge wrote:Deadwood? Is that a state of the wood, or is it the type of tree?
The deadwood, white colored on this juniper, is dead. You can see the live brown/cinnamon colored veins.
So the tree isn't meant to be in that way, or does it happen over time?

Marsman
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MPRidge wrote:So the tree isn't meant to be in that way, or does it happen over time?
It's naturally occurring. But, you can also artistically create deadwood with a carving knife, if you feel it would add to the design. It can give an appearance of age to a younger tree.
[url=https://bonsaibeautiful.com/glossary.html]Shari[/url] - One of the "dead wood" techniques, Shari refers to a place on the tree where bark and cambium have been stripped or peeled away, giving the tree the appearance of age or exposure to harsh conditions or severe weathering - such as a lightning damaged look. Mostly seen on conifers. In contrast to Jins, Shari is a dead part on the trunk. Shari are preserved by coating them with a mixture of lime sulfur which will also turn them white, creating an appearance of age. (See also Jin, Sabamiki).

linlaoboo
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it's purposely done that way. I remember reading something about jin and shari or something like that. It's just an aesthetic quality in bonsai that people look for or try to achieve.
ficus, maple, elm, juniper, pine

MPRidge
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Marsman wrote:
MPRidge wrote:So the tree isn't meant to be in that way, or does it happen over time?
It's naturally occurring. But, you can also artistically create deadwood with a carving knife, if you feel it would add to the design. It can give an appearance of age to a younger tree.
[url=https://bonsaibeautiful.com/glossary.html]Shari[/url] - One of the "dead wood" techniques, Shari refers to a place on the tree where bark and cambium have been stripped or peeled away, giving the tree the appearance of age or exposure to harsh conditions or severe weathering - such as a lightning damaged look. Mostly seen on conifers. In contrast to Jins, Shari is a dead part on the trunk. Shari are preserved by coating them with a mixture of lime sulfur which will also turn them white, creating an appearance of age. (See also Jin, Sabamiki).
Is that part of the tree dead though? Or is it just the name for it?

Marsman
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MPRidge wrote:Is that part of the tree dead though? Or is it just the name for it?
It's dead. No growth will come from it. The live outer layer is gone.

[img]https://i956.photobucket.com/albums/ae50/marsman61/Bonsai/tree_bark.jpg[/img]

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