How do these two things fit together?
I admit that not every veggie in my garden came from an organic beginning (my father in law brought me a BUNCH of veggie plants in addition to the ones I had started, and I know he doesn't bother with organic) but I still want to get them headed in the healthiest, most environmentally friendly way from here on out.
So.. my question is, how do I get the healthiest, best plants possible? Is compost tea enough? (I get mine from the brewer at whole foods, I'm not ready to try to make my own yet)
Do I need something more? Are there items from home I can use (like coffee grounds in my strawberry patch)
Should I be purchasing some sort of organic fertilizer?
Thanks so much!
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rainbowgardener
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You can get organic fertilizers (things like fish emulsion, kelp, bone meal). Fish emulsion is a good one, but it smells strongly of fish. When I used to use it on plants, the neighborhood cats would dig them all up trying to get to the smell! 
But if you mulch and compost, you shouldn't really need any other fertilizing.
But if you mulch and compost, you shouldn't really need any other fertilizing.-
jclassboat
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For those who want exceptional nutrient uptake in various kinds of vegetation/crops, some attention must be given to the microbial levels in the soil. Healthy soils are not only properly fertilized but there must be an aerobic zone which is essential for healthy plant life. An optimal depth is 8-12 inches but more often than not only 1-2 inches is found. In most cases microbes have to be added.rainbowgardener wrote:You can get organic fertilizers (things like fish emulsion, kelp, bone meal). Fish emulsion is a good one, but it smells strongly of fish. When I used to use it on plants, the neighborhood cats would dig them all up trying to get to the smell!
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rainbowgardener
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I thought that was part of the point of compost, vs other means of fertilization. Along with the nutrients and trace elements, tilth, adding compost adds earthworms, various insects, microbes, fungi... I guess the key is in your word exceptional. Some of us are satisfied with simple easy ways to get things done that lead to ordinary successful but not exceptional gardens. Some want to do everything possible to get those exceptional yields. I'm a KISS type gardener (Keep It Simple ... ). I do easy cool composting without batches and turning etc. Makes rich dark compost. I add very little else to my garden besides the compost and lots of organic mulch (my edibles are mulched with last fall's leaves, flower beds with broken down wood chips) and once the mulch is laid down, I don't do much to it but water if needed, It works fine. Do I get the max out of it I possibly could? I have no way to know. But I work a 40 - 50 hr week away from home, I'm active in my church and community, and I organically garden a quarter of an acre, with multiple flower beds (bird and butterfly garden, white garden, several others), asparagus bed, rhubarb, raspberry, strawberry, veggies in raised beds, herb garden, and the back half of the yard in a native woodland shade garden. It is beautiful and it works for me. So why do more than you need to?
Dear Rainbow, your gardening approach seems wonderful! Yes, I agree with you: the point of gardening is to work *with* Nature. The rewards are tremendous, not only in measurable production, but in emotional and/or spiritual ways, too.
Every now and then, even though I use my own compost to a large degree, I feel that a plant isn't doing as well as I would like. Maybe we've had a hot spell (like last May) or something else (squirrel damage) has stressed a plant.
I make a half-strength solution of liquid kelp and water the plant with that solution. I water its neighbors, too, because why make up a 2-gallon watering can of kelp solution otherwise???
It sounds to me as if you get the very most out of your precious gardening hours and that you're happy with the results of those hours. Well done!
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
Every now and then, even though I use my own compost to a large degree, I feel that a plant isn't doing as well as I would like. Maybe we've had a hot spell (like last May) or something else (squirrel damage) has stressed a plant.
I make a half-strength solution of liquid kelp and water the plant with that solution. I water its neighbors, too, because why make up a 2-gallon watering can of kelp solution otherwise???
It sounds to me as if you get the very most out of your precious gardening hours and that you're happy with the results of those hours. Well done!
Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9
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sweet thunder
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I think the "keep it simple" approach is good, but probably more successful if you've already got good soil.
My sandy soil drains so fast I worry that it doesn't hold nutrients very well. I'm working on building up the organic matter content to help counteract this, but I still use organic fertilizer to help things along. The nice thing about organic fertilizers is that they are slower-acting than the chemicals and don't need to be applied very often, so it can still be a pretty simple affair.
My sandy soil drains so fast I worry that it doesn't hold nutrients very well. I'm working on building up the organic matter content to help counteract this, but I still use organic fertilizer to help things along. The nice thing about organic fertilizers is that they are slower-acting than the chemicals and don't need to be applied very often, so it can still be a pretty simple affair.
The compost *will* improve the texture and water retention capacity of your soil.
I started on the other end of the spectrum in Berkeley: California adobe clay, with another clay about 2 feet down for subsoil. I gradually expanded the area under cultivation, and didn't worry after that about having to water "too often." (This was at the same house where I had the successful anti-Bermuda-Grass campaign.)
The first couple of years, I did use fish emulsion. I thought my indoor/outdoor cats were going to lose their minds!
That's when I learned about liquid kelp.
It's been a garden basic for me ever since.
So keep it up with the compost and the relatively simple system of working with Nature; it should only take 2, max. 3 seasons, to see terrific improvement!
Cynthia
I started on the other end of the spectrum in Berkeley: California adobe clay, with another clay about 2 feet down for subsoil. I gradually expanded the area under cultivation, and didn't worry after that about having to water "too often." (This was at the same house where I had the successful anti-Bermuda-Grass campaign.)
The first couple of years, I did use fish emulsion. I thought my indoor/outdoor cats were going to lose their minds!
That's when I learned about liquid kelp.It's been a garden basic for me ever since.
So keep it up with the compost and the relatively simple system of working with Nature; it should only take 2, max. 3 seasons, to see terrific improvement!
Cynthia
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rainbowgardener
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sweet thunder
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The Helpful Gardener
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Good fish gets notice from the cats to be sure, but so far no real issues. DW has forbidden application on guest days, but it is always dissappeared the next day. I use a cold treated cold water species mix that is less nasty than others I have used..., and I go light and often, rather than big doses...
I don't think of kelp and fish as interchangeable; they fit different needs for the plant and for the soil. Fish is a nitrogen thing and kelp is all about micronutrients and the mucilage, a concentration called exopolysaccharides that is common to all filamentous algae (we tend to forget the kelp, despite it's great size, is just an algae). Polysaccharides are just what they sound like, complex sugars that soil bacteria love. Plus these exopolysaccharides are what makes algae slippery, but also what makes sundrops sticky (and attracts the insect) when concentrated enough. In soil it helps tilth considerably by adding a sugary glue that makes soil attractive and nutritious for bacteria, which clumps soil. Eventually that will get back to the plants but only after the protozoa eats the bacteria, and gets eaten by the nematode, who gets eaten by the worm who poops by the plant...
Fish is nitrogen in a (mostly) plant ready form...but I get the issues, really I do. (I know a company that shut down a local community college for a day with some really stinky fish; no fooling...)
Alfalfa tea can be a good nitrogen boost that smells really nice, and the leavings are the greatest green for compost... I always have some around...
HG
I don't think of kelp and fish as interchangeable; they fit different needs for the plant and for the soil. Fish is a nitrogen thing and kelp is all about micronutrients and the mucilage, a concentration called exopolysaccharides that is common to all filamentous algae (we tend to forget the kelp, despite it's great size, is just an algae). Polysaccharides are just what they sound like, complex sugars that soil bacteria love. Plus these exopolysaccharides are what makes algae slippery, but also what makes sundrops sticky (and attracts the insect) when concentrated enough. In soil it helps tilth considerably by adding a sugary glue that makes soil attractive and nutritious for bacteria, which clumps soil. Eventually that will get back to the plants but only after the protozoa eats the bacteria, and gets eaten by the nematode, who gets eaten by the worm who poops by the plant...
Fish is nitrogen in a (mostly) plant ready form...but I get the issues, really I do. (I know a company that shut down a local community college for a day with some really stinky fish; no fooling...)
Alfalfa tea can be a good nitrogen boost that smells really nice, and the leavings are the greatest green for compost... I always have some around...
HG
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applestar
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My goal is "sustainable" and "self-sufficient". So compost, of course, and compost derivatives like compost tea. New one I've learned about here is weed tea (drowned weed water) -- when compost pile needs "watering," that just goes in the compost pile.
Things that I buy -- rock phosphate, greensand, and dolomitic lime (The bags I have are at least 3 yrs old and still about 1/2~2/3 full) Also chicken grit oystershells, sand (not as fertilizer but as soil conditioner), and straw. I've bought alfalfa pellets in the past. Now that I've run out, I'm going to see if I can do without. I do have some areas of the yard seeded with alfalfa to see if I can grow some on my own....
Earthworms -- Last year, there was a long thread about how earthworms are NOT native to northern parts of the N. American continent that were covered by glaciers and how they can be damaging to native wild flora and fauna. Luckily, I found out that I live a bit south of the boundary, so I don't have to feel bad about it. I have SO MUCH worms this year it's almost ridiculous. I dug up a productive lettuce to give to my Dad with a rootball of about 6" diameter. Nice rich dark black soil mixed with compost, straw, and half composted leaves -- there were huge worms trying to crawl out in every direction -- at least 5 or 6 -- I looked like I was holding a wriggling mass of worms. The black oozing mass was mostly worm castings. This was out of the New Kitchen Garden that was lawn with solid clay soil under 2" of sod back in March. If they can provide the nitrogen component, I won't have to supplement.
My other nitrogen suppliers are wild bunnies that are welcome as long as they stay out of the garden beds and wild birds. I guess my primary source of nitrogen is the lawn clippings from the back yard -- and I use the term "lawn" in the broadest sense since right now, it looks more like clover and ground ivy than grass.... 
Things that I buy -- rock phosphate, greensand, and dolomitic lime (The bags I have are at least 3 yrs old and still about 1/2~2/3 full) Also chicken grit oystershells, sand (not as fertilizer but as soil conditioner), and straw. I've bought alfalfa pellets in the past. Now that I've run out, I'm going to see if I can do without. I do have some areas of the yard seeded with alfalfa to see if I can grow some on my own....
Earthworms -- Last year, there was a long thread about how earthworms are NOT native to northern parts of the N. American continent that were covered by glaciers and how they can be damaging to native wild flora and fauna. Luckily, I found out that I live a bit south of the boundary, so I don't have to feel bad about it. I have SO MUCH worms this year it's almost ridiculous. I dug up a productive lettuce to give to my Dad with a rootball of about 6" diameter. Nice rich dark black soil mixed with compost, straw, and half composted leaves -- there were huge worms trying to crawl out in every direction -- at least 5 or 6 -- I looked like I was holding a wriggling mass of worms. The black oozing mass was mostly worm castings. This was out of the New Kitchen Garden that was lawn with solid clay soil under 2" of sod back in March. If they can provide the nitrogen component, I won't have to supplement.
My other nitrogen suppliers are wild bunnies that are welcome as long as they stay out of the garden beds and wild birds.
I guess my primary source of nitrogen is the lawn clippings from the back yard -- and I use the term "lawn" in the broadest sense since right now, it looks more like clover and ground ivy than grass.... -
The Helpful Gardener
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Clover and ground ivy means the soil is nitrogen poor. Feeding your lawn with high nitrogen organics would go a long way to making the grass happy enough to compete; might I suggest a single application of cron gluten and mulching the clippings right back in (or if you, like me, like to move the clippings into compost, you can do another light feed, say soy ferts, in mid June.. A compost topdressing (best done with a core aeration or slit seeding in fall) will also send the badguys packing as we restart the biological activity that used to take place in that soil...
Still have a little lime around here, but my magnesium is good so I use calcerous lime. I don't like to use mined products much, so the other two are out for me. I have plenty of potassium (we are blessed with high granite soils and ash from our stove, so no shortages there) and phosphorus is naturally occuring in compost and soils as phospholipids in the biology, so when soil's alive it won't run out. And the worms do magnificent work, adding to all the above, concentrating and refining the soil chemistry in a natural and beneficial manner. THAT you can't buy...
HG
Still have a little lime around here, but my magnesium is good so I use calcerous lime. I don't like to use mined products much, so the other two are out for me. I have plenty of potassium (we are blessed with high granite soils and ash from our stove, so no shortages there) and phosphorus is naturally occuring in compost and soils as phospholipids in the biology, so when soil's alive it won't run out. And the worms do magnificent work, adding to all the above, concentrating and refining the soil chemistry in a natural and beneficial manner. THAT you can't buy...
HG
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applestar
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Well, the clover is SO HAPPY right now, I have to pull them out to keep them out of garden beds. The ones I pulled out, the roots are completely covered with nodules. 
I remember you said something about clover keeping the nitrogen -- how can I get them to release it to the soil? Or will adding the clover clippings to the compost accomplish the same thing in the end (which is what I thought I was doing.... 
)
I remember you said something about clover keeping the nitrogen -- how can I get them to release it to the soil? Or will adding the clover clippings to the compost accomplish the same thing in the end (which is what I thought I was doing.... )-
The Helpful Gardener
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The bacteria in the nodules first see to their own nitrogen needs and then give up what little extra it can produce to the plant. As you have pulled it out, let it dry (or drown), then huck it in the pile. The plant is no longer supplying the the transpired nitrogen for the bacteria, the colony starves and dies, and releases IT'S inherent nitrogen, and other bacteria in the rhizosphere of the deceased clover do the same. It is dying clover plants that release the nitrogen, by no longer holding up their end of the symbiotic deal...
Grass eventually responds to a more nitrogen rich soil by out competing the clover (which actually prefers low nitrogen soils), assuming you are not butching it to one or two inches, which our northern turf grasses hate. Even some of the shorter grasses like Bermuda or St. Augustine can get happier a little longer; more shade on roots means cooler soil temps, means less competition from C4 tropical weeds like crabgrass, and better water retention, therefore better soil biologies, so more nitrogen and phosphorus, and better soil tilth...
Or you can go chemical and screw that all up, and cut at two inches and fight the summer weeds (or use more chemicals), increasing your thatch layer, which encourages chinch and sod web worm (I saw a few in my lawn this season already, but the robin's are in my lawn in force and I trust their god-given abilities) so you'd have NEW chemicals to put down...
So AS, toss that pulled clover in the pile for best effect. And Haesuse, me too in the worst way. Negotiations are back on, but not going well. I miss my angelfish...and the tank water. That was my houseplant regimen...
HG
Grass eventually responds to a more nitrogen rich soil by out competing the clover (which actually prefers low nitrogen soils), assuming you are not butching it to one or two inches, which our northern turf grasses hate. Even some of the shorter grasses like Bermuda or St. Augustine can get happier a little longer; more shade on roots means cooler soil temps, means less competition from C4 tropical weeds like crabgrass, and better water retention, therefore better soil biologies, so more nitrogen and phosphorus, and better soil tilth...
Or you can go chemical and screw that all up, and cut at two inches and fight the summer weeds (or use more chemicals), increasing your thatch layer, which encourages chinch and sod web worm (I saw a few in my lawn this season already, but the robin's are in my lawn in force and I trust their god-given abilities) so you'd have NEW chemicals to put down...
So AS, toss that pulled clover in the pile for best effect. And Haesuse, me too in the worst way. Negotiations are back on, but not going well. I miss my angelfish...and the tank water. That was my houseplant regimen...
HG