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applestar
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Let's start a slug count! :wink:

:twisted: 195

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Kisal
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4, in the past 2 weeks. That's more than I've seen in awhile in my yard. They don't seem to get along well with the garden snails, which I have in droves. :p
Last edited by Kisal on Sun May 03, 2009 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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195
Goodness! Is that all in one evening?

cynthia_h
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I bet it *is* from one evening. I used to get numbers like that in Berkeley, when I first "converted" to Snail/Slug Hunting. :oops:

And our lot size then was only 30' x 50' rather than 50' x 100', like we have now.

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Pebbles
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I counted 60 snails and 2 slugs yesterday. I picked them up and chucked them into next door's garden ha ha ha :mrgreen:

Only joking. There would be no point in doing that anyway because somewhere along the line, whether I have read it, heard it or even dreamed about it, slugs and snails are apparently home birds. No matter where you take them, even to the seaside for a day trip, they will find their way home - damb :(

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Pebbles
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Oh, I forgot to ask, how do you all get rid of them?

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applestar
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Yep 195 last evening (94) & night (101) PLUS this morning's 77 = 272 :twisted: :twisted:
AND I only started counting them yesterday -- I've been at it all week! (Albeit not as systematically) :x
Last night, I was more than a little bit appalled to see that the flashlight shining through the cabbage leaves made pretty patterns like those pierced tin lanterns.... :roll:

Pebbles - I'm putting them in soapy water until they're dead, then into the compost pile they go.
Waste not, want not. :wink:
I've been setting out orange wedge skins and they do seem to flock to them. (I don't have grapefruits at the moment.) I count the slugs and then swish the skin around in the soapy water to wash them off. The skins are reusable. Right now, I'm too busy drowning them, but if and when the count goes down a bit and I feel less vindictive/desperate, I might start putting the slug covered skins on the birdfeeder.... The feeder is near the as-of-now slug-free New Kitchen Garden and I'm worried that escapees might find their way there. :|

Kisal - you're welcome to post your snails counts if you like 8)
(At least 3 or 4 of the numbers above are those ittybitty snails)

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!potatoes!
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too many; I'm not counting.

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Sounds like it's time to put down some beer?! Worked great for us last year.

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Pebbles
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Hi applestar

Glad you are managing to reduce the counts. Eventually, so my brother told me, you will end up with next to none and then your plants will hopefully start to thrive.

I got rid of about 60 snails and 2 slugs as I said earlier. This was yesterday evening and today, having taken a look, I only see 3 snails. Maybe I will be slug and snail free sooner than I think.
We use slug pellets over here. Do you have any? The slug pellets seem to have gotten rid of my snail and slug army overnight.

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A lot of gardeners don't put out those snail/slug "pellets" (= poisons) because of concerns about secondary poisoning.

With the snail and slug bodies around, who in addition to, say, birds is likely to come by and have a snack? *That* creature is your secondary, probably unintended, target.

I've written elsewhere here at THG about my gradual (two years) change from frustrated salad gardener to grim Snail Hunter.

The upshot is that I smash 'em where I find 'em, slugs and snails alike, with a trowel, large stick, or my cane. They built those bodies / shells out of the soil *my plants* are growing in, soil which *I* made compost for, and nutrients which were intended for the plants. So...they can start giving back to the plants.

Right now. :twisted:

That's what I do with them, anyway.

Cynthia

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Pebbles
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Hi Cynthia

I can see how frustrated you are...

I didn't realise that I could be harming my plants whilst trying to rid my garden of snails and slugs. There is an awful lot I have to learn.

I hate to kill anything though - sad I know... but that is the way I am. My brother caught a snail (caught ha!) it thrashed him until it surrendered ha!

Seriously though, I was doing some diy (do it yourself) gardening last year and unfortunately I somehow cought a bee in its travels. Well, I was so upset, I lifted the bee with a leaf, and put it under a flower and said a prayer for it and hoped that it would survive.... it died the poor thing... I was upset for a long time. Sad sod aren't I?

So should we not put pellets down around our vegetables etc?

Thanks for the input.

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I got two big ones this morning! I put them in a bucket with some oatmeal, thinking I'd feed the birds with them. One escaped, the other died. Tossed it into the yard.

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Kisal
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petalfuzz wrote:I got two big ones this morning! I put them in a bucket with some oatmeal, thinking I'd feed the birds with them. One escaped, the other died. Tossed it into the yard.
Cornmeal ... you need to feed 'em cornmeal. That's what they feed them to "clean them out" prior to cooking them. [img]https://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sick007.gif[/img]

I drop them on the ground and step on 'em. Very, very firmly! :lol:

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applestar wrote:Yep 195 last evening (94) & night (101) PLUS this morning's 77 = 272 :twisted: :twisted:
Rained all day today... got 45 more = 317 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Ran into next door neighbor: "Were you out here around 10 o'clock last night?" :oops: :lol: He was shaking his head after I explained (probably thought I was a bit nuts :roll:) but he did commiserate when I showed him the pierced-tin-lantern cabbages: "Aww, all the fruits of your labor...."

When I started out, I was armed with cynthia_h's tales of glory and pumped to do them maximum damage. I squished the little ones between my fingers without a qualm. Did you know they manage to slime away if you don't apply the correct amount of pressure? Squeeeeze... pop! :shock: Then something gave inside and the squish and slime factors started to bother me so I switched to squishing with a pointy sweetgum seedball -- this required some attention because the little ones managed to slime inside the holes and try to escape. Relentlessly, I would chase them down.... I became sensitive to the moment of pop when they were successfully destroyed... and that started to get to me. THAT's when I resorted to the rubbermaid sandwich container of soapy water.... Well, that's not the only reason -- the numbers were mounting and it was fast becoming obvious that squishing them ONE AT A TIME was plain inefficient. :roll: Soapy water is cloudy so I don't see them... much... after they've been flicked off my fingers or chopsticks. I pour each batch into a quart deli/takeout container until full and try not to see the white trail of slime that they seem to exude in their final moments, and keep the lid on in case any survivors try to escape. I've a full container sitting by the compost bin right now. Starting on a new one this evening. :x

But I'm with you, cynthia_h! -- that they should give back what they took from our gardens. :evil: ... and ask me again next week if I'm still squeamish about squishing them! :wink: :lol:

cynthia_h
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For those who missed my detailed history of How I Became A Snail Hunter :wink:--

the first season I planted lettuce, chard, etc. in Berkeley, I harvested very little of it due to snail/slug damage. I thought the slugs were completely gross, and was of course still under the spell of snail shells being mathematically elegant in their whorls. (The shells *are* elegant...but :x)

The second season, I had now worked to make compost, dug it into the ground, carefully selected varieties of lettuce, chard, bush beans, and tomatoes to plant in our itty-bitty plot of earth (in retrospect, maybe 15' x 10'?).

So every single plant was important.

*This* was the time when I decided to be my own judge, jury, and executioner of these gross gastropods ("stomach on feet" is what it means, and boy! is it right). I couldn't bring myself to stomp on 'em, not that year; I used the trowel and then washed it off after every foray.

The third year was Nellie Bar The Door. Stomp, smash w/trowel, keep a running count.

After that, I didn't even count them anymore, not in Berkeley. Just returned 'em very quickly to Mother Nature. :twisted:

When we moved here, I had had a car accident not too long before, so when I tried gardening the first full summer we were here, it was just too difficult. However, I still smashed snails/slugs whenever the chance presented itself from then (1998) until last year (2008), when I was finally able to consider gardening--and Snail Hunting--again.

BTW, I'm not *frustrated* any more about snail/slug predation! :D If I see such damage nowadays, I know that there are gastropods about. I do a Search and Destroy, and I've found them in the weirdest places....but I do find them. (wicked laugh here...)

Oh, yes: 23 snails, 1 slug last night--I've kept a running count in the Snail Hunting thread.

Cynthia

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I'm doing the soapy water bucket right now. I didn't get an accurate count, but maybe 30 or so slugs and snails over the last three days.

Is there any problem with putting soapy water into the compost? I've been dumping it out in the alley.

My garden is like the old one Cynthia describes, small, newly established, and much fussed-over, so I think I'm still taking the slug attacks personally.

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Is there any problem with putting soapy water into the compost?
HG, can you help out? I can't find the thread where you talked about soap feeding microbes in the compost. SOAP not detergent, BTW... and you really don't need a whole lot. What I do is when I'm done and have dumped the slugs in the quart container, I put the sandwich container under the faucet and wash my hands at the outside faucet with leftover bits of soap I keep in a nylon net bag (lemons) tied to the faucet. That's it. Soapy water to drown the slugs in next time. :wink:
195 last evening (94) & night (101) PLUS this morning's 77 = 272
Rained all day today... got 45 more = 317
Started to rain while I was out this evening... 219 more = 536

I got 100+ and was calling it quits when I looked down at the clover patch just outside the garden fence. Squatted down to pick up the few slugs that caught my eye... my eyes adjusted to what I was seeing... :eek: :roll:

Cynthia_h, if I didn't have your example to give me courage, I might be tempted to falter. :-()

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Cynthia and Appelstar - I'm weak and I caved! I got desperate, folded, and guiltily used an "alternative" slug bait made with iron phosphate. :oops: :oops: :oops:
I tried so hard to be a good organic gardener! :oops: :(

I hate to say it, but it seems to have worked... :lol: ...So how bad is this iron phosphate??? I did some research beforehand, and here is one website, like many others, that leave the subject ambiguous:
https://www.pesticide.org/slugs.html

I tried beer, evening excursions, but in the end I really just got lazy (guess my forum name finally caught up to me!). :lol:

-Tania

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Rob
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Pebbles wrote:Oh, I forgot to ask, how do you all get rid of them?
I'm in arid Arizona, so we don't get a lot of slugs here.

Still, this year me and the kids incubated a chicken egg and got a chicken.

If I let the thing out at dusk it runs around eating crickets and slugs.
So far it hasn't attacked my garden, so it stays (they second it nibbles on one of my Heirloom Tom's it's gone).

Bugs and slugs seem to be it's primary dietary desire.

Just a thought.

cynthia_h
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Right, Rob: my DH's ex-wife had a pet duck for several seasons. The duck was her slug & snail control! One very happy (and fat) duck!

Right up until a raccoon opened its enclosure one night... :cry:

And, if you read DavidTaylor's tale of Success vs. Snails (on the famous Snail-Hunting thread), you'll find that he has some very happy chickens! :D

However...I just spent a few minutes looking up the iron-phosphate snail/slug products and found a link to a label at

https://www.arbico-organics.com/1271105.html

This product (named on the website) specifically is 1% iron phosphate, 99% inert ingredients. NOT ONE of these "inert ingredients" is named.

There are some products on the market (not all of them for gardening) where the so-called inert ingredients are actually more hazardous than the named, active ingredient(s). (In fact, there was such marked concern in northern California last year about the "inert" ingredients in a pesticide scheduled for aerial dispersal over cities and residential areas that the whole project was called off and pheromone-laden trapping instituted instead.)

I read through several MSDS's for iron-phosphate formulations. I found what seems to be contradictory information on them:

--On one MSDS, the user is advised to utilize carbon-filter respiratory equipment, but the product is also listed as not presenting a respiratory hazard or requiring special equipment. :?: :?: :?: These were on two separate pages of a 4-page MSDS.

--On another MSDS, any potential runoff to bodies of water, including storm drains, was prohibited. How on earth is anyone going to prevent eventual runoff from his/her garden, yard, etc. to a storm drain? Storm drains are usually designed to carry water directly from residential areas to creeks, rivers, and other larger bodies of water. The ones in the S.F. Bay Area discharge to the San Francisco Bay.

So this is the chain of probable events if I were to use this "99% undisclosed inert ingredients" product in my garden:

1) I would put the stuff down on the ground.

2) There would be a heavy, late-season rain (as we've had the last two days). OR I would water my plants for their once-weekly deep watering after the weather turns hot.

3) There would be lots of water running off my garden to the street, thence to the storm drain.

4) And into the Bay.

Not what I want to do at all.

And I *really don't like* that 99% undisclosed inert ingredients thing in the least.

Cynthia

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Cynthia_h - you crack me up. You have a good sense of humour with your (wicked laugh).

Rob, seems like your little chick is doing a good job for you. I would love to have chickens but I feel the cats I have might make their lives a misery.

I am trying to take in all the info you are so generously giving. Takes time though when you are learning..

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applestar
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Rob wrote:Still, this year me and the kids incubated a chicken egg and got a chicken.
Oooh! I SOOO wanted to do that! 3 bantam araucaunas was my intention -- they're small, won't take up much space. I planned an area next to the compost bins and next to the shed where I'd build their permanent coop and had narrowed down to a couple of plans for chicken tractors.... Even located a breeder not too far away. :-()

But we live in a fussily regulated suburban neighborhood where the legality of backyard chicken keeping is questionable, and my DH put his size 14 foot down. :( :roll:

Well, "Drop Back Ten Yards and Punt" ... we'll see what happens next spring. :wink:

It's raining rather heavily at the moment and I haven't had my morning cuppa yet. Feeling rather lazy and sitting on my laurels from last night's big hunt... I'd even caught a "big'un" for the 100th... muttering to myself -- "99, OK, 100, 100, let's make it a good one... ah!" :P

BTW, in-laws were here yesterday. DH told them about my daily forays, and DMIL -- a seasoned slug hunter, told me she'd counted over 5000 one year. :shock:

...

OK, I'm back! :D This morning's catch was 187 AND it started to rain again!
So to summarize the total count for me so far:
Sat 5/2 PM >> (94+101)=195
Sun 5/3 AM >> + (77+45) = +122 = 317
Sun 5/3 PM >> +219 =536
Mon 5/4 AM >> +187 = 723

:twisted:

That 5000+ is starting to look completely reasonable. MIL also told me to look for egg clusters -- she said they look like pelleted fertilizer. I'll have to look up images on-line so I'll recognize them! :twisted: :twisted:

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Yeah, the egg clusters...to me, they look like little translucent pearls stuck together. Maybe 3 mm or so in diameter apiece. Not a large clump but rather small, approx. 1 cm overall. I don't find them too often (it's very difficult for me to examine the bottoms of pots at night--not enough hands!), but when I do... :twisted:

But I don't add them to my count, because there is absolutely no way I'm going to count exactly how many of them there are. They're just a bonus--I eliminated FUTURE slugs/snails! :D

Cynthia

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I've only seen one so far.... it was godzilla sized :shock: ....... but luckily it was not in the garden :D

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Cynthia - thanks so much for the info. I guess I am really gullible with the whole "inert ingredients" thing - it never dawned on me that the sneaky ingredients could be described that way! I don't think I'll be using that stuff again, at least not until I can get a confirmation of the rest of the ingredients. :? The sound of prohibiting the addition of iron phosphate in storm drains doesn't sound good either. If it is not allowed in the water system, it probably shouldn't be used in the yard.

Off to do some more research... :wink:

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Yeah, EPA has a list of inerts... some very nasty stuff sneaks in under that banner. Good call Cynthia...

Iron phosphate isn't too terrible by itself... just stay away from the heavy metal cures, but plants will utilize iron and phosphate...but what are the inerts... :?:

HG

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138 this morning! Drizzling again, too. :?
Total = 861

Soap in the compost -- I do remember when I bought the new washing machine, the sales person insisted that we follow the CLEAN WASHER instructions because of the low suds enzyme "detergent" required for the machine. "Because THAT'S what they eat you know!?" "Do you ever get ring around the bath tub? SOAP SCUM? MOLD!" he yelled at me. :roll: Throwing his hands up in the air -- "PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW DIRECTIONS, THEN COME BACK TO ME!" -- thump! on his chest -- "COMPLAINING ABOUT MOLD!" -- hands held out at me... :lol: What can I way, he was unique... and entertaining.... I only had to step back once, mostly for volume control. :lol:

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Soap (NOT DETERGENT) should be fine and digestible, and yes, fungii will likely play a role... it's all good...

HG

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applestar
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Yeah, sorry. I think the guy was talking about the ENZYMES. Anyway, let's just say it ONE MORE TIME in case there was any confusion:
SOAP, NOT DETERGENT
:wink: :lol:

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Everybody has heard the beer advice, but few have heard that beer calls slugs from up to three hundred feet away...get the NEIGHBOR to put out beer, THEN flick the slugs over the wall...
:twisted:

HG

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!potatoes!
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I don't know if our drought has broken here or what, but the frequent rains so far have already dubbed this the 'summer of slug' around here - on the third planting of some things. diatomaceous earth is on the shopping list.

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applestar
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applestar wrote:Tues: 138 this morning! Drizzling again, too. :?
Total = 861
OK where was I? Right, 101 Tues evening, 108 this morning, and 85 this evening = 1155 :eek: It would've been 86 but my back gave out while I was reaching over the fence and I lost it. The bugger did the now maddeningly familiar "slime down the grass stalk act" :x

By the way, I can make it rain. Honest, I can. I go out slug hunting and as soon as I catch more than 75, it starts to rain. Hasn't failed yet since I started counting slugs. :roll:

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I've been having a little problem with slugs on my head lettuce, so I checked out this thread first thing this morning...I have found some good advice, but mostly had a supersized laugh to start off my day! You guys are hilarious, especially applestar and cynthia!

Thanks for the chuckles. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Rebecca

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I can't believe I'm reading this, while munching my sandwich, hmph. Anyway, I hate squishing and squashing things, but fortunately I don't have to. I was envying all of you for living in warmer zones, but now I can see one great advantage of our climate - no slugs and snails!
We have an invasion of stupid woodticks though, they are the grossest thing. I drown them in the execution jar after picking them off the dogs (or myself, shudder)!

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applestar
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Total as of this morning is 1456. I'm losing enthusiasm -- maybe it's just the headache talking. :?
Yesterday, I found the mother-of-all-slugs under a lettuce leaf in the New Kitchen Garden where until now, it was slug-free. Then when I was rinsing off the lettuce I'd harvested, I found a cluster of eggs! MOTHER indeed. I really should've taken a picture, but I disposed of them in a panic and didn't think of it until later. :roll:

This morning, I'm seeing these everywhere. Are these slug eggs too? They're cream-colored rather than white with a dot like the other ones from yesterday, and somewhat smaller. In the closeup photo's they look like tiny mushrooms rather then spherical to me. But if these are slug eggs, I'm in major trouble because they're everywhere in the Veg Garden. (Sorry the focus is a little off)
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4123.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4124.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4126.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4127.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image4128.jpg[/img]

Also, I've discovered that the slugs are climbing my little Cherry trees and eating the leaves. They're newly planted last fall, to be fan or free-form espaliered, so they're only knee high. I knew something was eating the leaves because the budded leaves on one fan-limb were slowly disappearing but I didn't see the slugs until today -- found 10 all together on the Cherries. :evil: Immediately checked the Apple trees located by the fence on the other side of the garden and found tell-tale chewed up leaves. Took a bit of searching but I KNEW it was there -- finally found the slimer at the top of a dandelion fluff that toppled over and was touching the trunk. :x

Oh, they're all over the peppermint leaves too. :roll: :?

cynthia_h
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Time for some diatomaceous earth, for sure. The little bumps in the photos don't look like slug eggs to me, but I'm not sure I can tell slug from snail eggs. The eggs I have seen that I *know* are snail eggs are translucent and jelly-like, in a small mass, and not individually placed.

Cynthia

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I'm with Cynthia; those look more like [url=https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3086/2562460753_65ec2b18e2.jpg?v=0]fungal sporangia[/url] than [url=https://www.meades.org/photos_from_the_garden/slug_eggs.jpg]slug eggs[/url], or fruiting structures. I'm a little concerned about the ones on the lettuce; that would mean this isn't strictly sapprophitic (only breaking down dead tissue). I might let things dry a bit, and I would use my milk spray (1 to ten with water) to knock down the fungus, and I would really not feel bad about iron phosphate (AS, with the kind of issue you are having, you need some help). There are down sides to every answer. Cynthia's [url=https://www.ghorganics.com/DiatomaceousEarth.html]DE[/url] looks good, but only if you are using the right stuff; the pool grade stuff is highly silicate, so it will kill most insects, including earthworms. Hand picking has no chance of collateral damage, but the time investment in the kind of numbers AS is putting up must be pretty prodigious. You have to pick a line not to cross, and for me the iron phosphate is still on my side of the line. But that's me...

Organics doesn't have to be pesticide free, as long as you are using safe products in a safe manner with some forethought, I think that's fine. For instance, iron phosphate should NOT be used right near water as it can cause algal blooms (that's why they are testing iron fertilization for atmospheric carbon storage in oceans). But it is a generally safe product (while Cynthias's warning on inerts is still a valid point). This breaks down to two very common and usable elements, and the laws concerning listing so called inerts needs to change, but in the meantime, AS needs help...

HG

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The Helpful Gardener wrote:Everybody has heard the beer advice, but few have heard that beer calls slugs from up to three hundred feet away...get the NEIGHBOR to put out beer, THEN flick the slugs over the wall...
:twisted:

HG
I was gonna use beer for my snail bait until I saw this. I don't want that many slugs, or snails. lol!


Oh, and I've seen OMRI Slug bait and it's active ingredient was iron phosphate, so I think it's perfectly fine. Just as long as it's not from a company like Miracle Gro, and your use it the correct way.

garden5
Super Green Thumb
Posts: 3062
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:40 pm
Location: ohio

I guess I'm kind of lucky in that I don't have too may slugs bothering my garden......at least early on in the season. Last year, I planted some crops in the summer for a fall harvest and had a really poor germination rate. I planted the same seeds this year and they all came up, so I'm guessing that it's the slugs that hit them last summer.



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