Having trouble figuring this tomato plant out

[WeekendWarrior]

I’ve got this tomato plant that seemed to be doing well/fine at the beginning of the season.

Growth stunted a bit and leaves were turning a bit yellow at the bottom so I fertilized and it fixed it right up.

Then I began to see the leaves curl up and realized I was pretty certain I was overwatering, so I backed off and that seemed to help somewhat.

Now I don’t know what happened, but all the leaves starting turning up with gray looking spots all over.

I tried using artificial intelligence, but none of the matches seemed to look exactly like what I had.

The closest thing I could find looked like Sun scorch.

But I put a blanket up to give it some shade for the past couple days, and looking at it now it just is very thin - A lot of leaves were completely shriveling so after I pruned off the *completely* dead ones, there’s less and less of the plant left. I’m afraid the ones with existing spots now will be the dead ones tomorrow or Monday, and there will be nothing left.

I also treated it with Neem oil a couple of days ago just in case it was something bacterial / fungal.

Any experts here that can identify the problem just by looking at it? And say if there’s any solution/hope?

[applestar]

Curling upward is said to be sign of too much nitrogen. What was the NPK ratio of the fertilizer you used?

The spots with yellow halo surrounding and dying leaves are classic sign of Early Blight. This can be also result of older leaves losing vigor and unable to resist infection.

Early Blight is not a death sentence.

With tomatoes, all leaves 2 leaf nodes lower and below the lowest fruit are no longer actively considered essential and the plant will stop supporting them as much.

So it’s actually beneficial to cut off those leaves to eliminate source of pathogens. You want to open up and increase airflow around the base of the plants, especially if you are getting a lot of rain or is very humid where you are.

You’ll want to make sure to try to keep from spreading the disease yourself — hands, tools — I keep a travel atomizer of 91% alcohol and frequently spray pruning scissors, and try to wash my hands with soap every so often.

Once the worst of the affected leaves (dead or yellow) are removed — you can also just cut leaflets if rest of the leaflets are still looking healthy and green, especially leaves above fruits and ones that are growing from just above or below fruit truss… then you’ll want to spray with something that is fungicidal and preventive.

We’ll get to that after we get through this part.

[WeekendWarrior]

Thank you, applestar!! Really appreciate your help.

I guess the one other thing I might not have mentioned about this plant (or maybe did briefly) is just how thinned out it’s getting…. I feel like if I prune anymore, there will be nothing left.

Couple that with the fact that we’ve been having 100 degree heat along with humidity for a week, (and counting), it’s tough conditions on what is remaining.

I am adding a full photo of the plant just so it’s frailness is visible.

In regards to NPK, I started with 10-10-10 at planting…. Added some 24-25-4 about a month later.

And have been doing weekly leaf sprays of Miracle Gro “Tomato” version. So the excessive NPK is entirely possible. . I am very literally a rookie at growing tomatoes, this is my first attempt ever.

[applestar]

Ohhh that’s REALLY hot! You’re doing well overall. High NPK numbers like that means salt-based fertilizers, and that could have been another strike. Fabric pots dry out faster, and the result could have concentrated the salts and burned the roots — that might be what we’re looking at with those dried out leaflets.

How and how often are you watering? I suspect you’d need to water morning and evening. Breathable fabric pots CAN be put in a shallow pan of water. Hot water heater pan or sometimes large catering tray would work well. This would alleviate the opposite problem of the nutrients being flushed out all the time.

I hope you harvested those three red and nearly red fruits. Once they’re near full ripe, they spoil quickly in the hot sun and heat so you’re better off harvesting and finish curing on the kitchen counter — I put them in paper towel lined baskets, colanders, and on baked goods cooling racks. they are better protected if wrapped in single paper napkin, but you have to unwrap and check on them every day. Don’t wait any longer than 4 days, but try them at different stages of curing to decide how you like this particular variety the best.

Which reminds me — what IS the variety? If it’s a determinate variety, then there’s another reason for senility to be setting in.

…Here are a couple of collages I was prepping for my garden thread. You can see how I’ve removed all of the leaves below the lowest fruit truss. Mine are suffering from Septoria AND Early Blight since the heatwave with humidity hit us.

In your photo, especially with the lowest truss turning red like this, ALL leaves on the main stem below the fruit truss can be removed.

[WeekendWarrior]

Okay, thank you so much!! Your willingness to take time to help others out is very much appreciated. Your tomatoes look great!

This is not an easy game, that’s for sure…. Overwatering, underwatering, too much fertilizer, not enough fertilizer…. Blight… sun scorch…. Insect damage. So many of the symptoms seem to look exactly the same, so it’s really a mystery to an inexperienced gardener.

I was originally watering daily and spraying both the plant leaves and the base…. That’s when it looked to be curling and have the appearance of overwatering. That was also before the heat wave of 90-100 degree days this past week or so.

Lately, (for about the past 10 days) I’ve been watering every other day, and watering 1/2 gallon of water poured slowly directly onto and around the base of the plant. Not watering the leaves at all.

And then once a week, wetting the leaves with the ‘miracle grow tomato’.

The variety is Big Beef Hybrid I think it is.

So prune away, back off on fertilizing, and increase watering you recommend?

[applestar]

Sounds right to me. Tomatoes become very thirsty once green fruits are developing and you need to adjust watering accordingly. Harvest before next watering rather than after latest volume of water has been taken up to avoid watering down the flavors.

Be flexible about watering and learn to check for potting mix moisture levels — feel surface and dig a little, check along edge of pot and closer to the middle, etc.

My favorite method for containers is “heft” method if possible. Water thoroughly then “heft” — lift completely or tilt to feel the weight, remember it, and, rather than on schedule, water if the pot feels light / top-heavy (weight of plant is heavier than the pot).

I like to help…I know well the helpless feeling when something seems wrong, you want to fix it, but you don’t know what to do or are afraid of making it worse… It’s reassuring when someone can give you analysis and suggestions.

It’s best when you can get aggregate recommendations from folks with different experiences because with gardening, there is no such thing as ONE right way.

[digitS']

I will put in my 2¢ .

The use of neem oil and sun scorching caught my attention.

Be careful using insecticides that are meant to work by suffocating and dehydrating the bugs. Neem mixes act like insecticidal soap. They can also dehydrate and damage plant leaves. It's best to apply the spray near sundown and show up early the next morning to rinse the plants with water. The insecticide's effect on the pests has had time to work but the intensity of the sun is not yet such a challenge for the plants.

Steve

[imafan26]

Even if you use synthetic fertilizer it would be too much. You actually need less synthetic fertilizer by volume than organic. It works faster, but organic will improve the soil, but nutrients won't be as readily available.

If you use synthetic fertilizers stick with numbers closer to 10, like 10-10-10, 6-4-6, or 9-12-12. Use slow N fertilizers. Follow the directions, you don't need a lot. If you have a soil test then you could get recommendations on what fertilizers and how much to apply.

If you use organic, then plan ahead. In the ground you would add your organic matter and organic fertilizer 6 weeks to 6 months in advance. Since organic nitrogen is not available on demand, you will need to supplement with something like fish emulsion to support early growth. Organic fertilizer is much harder to use in containers because it must be converted to its inorganic form by soil organisms before it is available to the plants. Containers will not be able to support a large enough soil community to feed large heavy feeders.

Growing tomatoes in 100+ heat would be hard for anyone. Even the most heat resistant tomatoes would have a problem with triple digit temperatures.

If you are a beginner, select tomato varieties that are appropriate for your climate or recommended by your extension service. Cherry and smaller tomatoes are the easiest to grow. If you live in a hot humid climate, you will need to find disease resistant varieties..

Cornell vegetables website has pages of disease resistance tables for specific crops.

https://www.vegetables.cornell.edu/pest ... varieties/

Plant at the right time in the right place. You can mitigate some things by planting at the right time of the year or planting strategically. Like planting on the east side with shade cloth and misting to help cool the plants. Or planting in a hoop house or tunnel if you live in a wet location to control water that sits on the leaves.

Plan on preventive fungicides in humid climates or when a prolonged rain is coming.

Take off the leaves on the lower 1-2 feet of the tomato you don't need. Mulch to reduce splashing. Rotate sites if certain diseases are a problem.

If you want to grow heirloom tomatoes, they have less disease resistance and you will need to pay more attention to them. Weekly preventive fungicides. They will not be resistant to some diseases that may be prevalent in your area. You would have to have more protections for them for vector transmitted diseases.

https://extension.psu.edu/tomato-production
https://extension.psu.edu/container-grown-tomatoes
https://extension.missouri.edu/publications/g6220
https://njaes.rutgers.edu/fs678/
https://marylandgrows.umd.edu/2022/10/2 ... d-in-2022/

[WeekendWarrior]

Lots of great advice here, thank you! I don’t feel quite so bad that this plant is struggling now, it’s been right at about 90-100 degree range fairly consistently here in Missouri.

And I have this pot in “Full Sun” as the label suggests …. So the thing is probably just severely distressed.

To the person who posted about applying Neem Oil in the evening, and then rinsing in the morning…. Would you do that daily since you’re rinsing much of it off? Or still only once a week?


Thank you all again! I’m learning!

[imafan26]

Your pictures are sideways. You can fix that by going into your photo editor and resize if the file is too big rename and save the file in the correct orientation. Otherwise usually even if the picture post in the wrong orientation. clicking on it will post upright. Als put your zone and location in your profile. That way we can remember where you live and what zone you are in. What works for one zone will not necessarily work for another.

Your pots look big enough and it looks like you have determinate tomatoes. Do you know the name of the variety?

Early and late blight are very common tomato problems, but there are some cultivars that have more resistance. You have good spacing on the tomatoes, but probably too hot in full sun in temperatures over 85 degrees.

Plants that are prone to fungal disease in warm, humid conditions should be proactively sprayed with fungicides. Fungal and bacterial diseases are hard to control if they have no resistance or after the disease appears. Neem is ok as a preventative, but cannot be used in very hot weather. It does not work as well as a cure.

Cleaning up the bottom of the plant and remove the leaves you don't need. Mulching to prevent splashing and slow down water loss will help a lot.

Some leaves look like they are rolling. Physiological leaf roll is a response to heat. It is nothing wrong with the plant. It will stop if the weather cools. You can wrap the pot with something that has a light color or insulate the pot so the pot won't heat up as much. It is hard to double pot at this point, but if you can get styrofoam sheets from the hardware store, you can wrap it around the pots to insulate them from the heat. If the pots are on a concrete or asphalt surface you will also get radiant heat from those surfaces. It is hard to overwater a tomato in a fabric pot because those pots are notorious for drying out. It is best to use another method to check when you need water. Use your finger and poke your finger 3-4 inches into the pot and see if it is dry or damp. If it is dry on the surface, it doesn't mean it is dry in the root zone. Wilting in the heat is the plant's way to conserve moisture, but it should perk up later in the day or in the morning. If it doesn't, then it was too dry.

[digitS']

I have never done a daily application of any pesticide. BTW -- The rinsing may remove the bugs that the spray may missed.

If the pest still shows up after a week or so, I'm very inclined to try a one-two punch by using something different like pyrethrin, another organic spray.

I should say that I don't usually have problems with viral and fungal diseases in the open garden so I don't have much experience there. Insects are a different problem and at times, they can be carriers of disease, vectors.

Steve

[WeekendWarrior]

Not real sure why one of my screenshots of the weather forecast was the correct orientation.

At any rate, appreciate all the help. I hadn’t read all the suggestions before just now, but here’s an update.

Trimmed it up…. Probably trimmed too much where I shouldn’t have… And probably didn’t trim enough where I should have.

Increased watering.

Shaded a bit.

Before & after photos.

[imafan26]

I don't usually trim. I am bad at it. I just resize because if the file is too large you won't be able to post it. Rename and save the file usually preserves the orientation so it show up in the right orientation when posted. I have never figured out why it looks right on my computer but posts sideways here. I just figured out how to fix it.

[applestar]

Good start.

I would suggest sacrificing/culling the bottom three thin branches even though one of them has a green fruit on it.

From here on, don’t let any suckers/side shoots grow from leafnodes below fruits. You don’t really need any more branches near the top either, especially when growing in a container with limited resources… but allowing suckers to grow is one way to relieve a case of too much nitrogen — plant will expend energy on growing those side branches.

I looked it up and this is an Indeterminate variety, meaning it will continue to grow upward — you are going to need to figure out a sturdier, taller support.

[imafan26]

If it is an indeterminate the pot will be too small. You will have to water twice a day once it gets bigger. Indeterminates when they are happy will be 8-10 ft long.

[WeekendWarrior]

Okay, thank you again! I never really knew about indeterminate/etc, but just looked up the Big Boy Hybrid, and it does say that, as you said.

The pot is a 15-gallon pot, it’s as large as I have… The plant has definitely stalled out growing in height over the past 3-4 weeks…. When I first planted I was going out pretty regularly and helping new branches funnel their way through the supports on the cage.

Once the top of the plant reached the height of the top ring, that’s when leaf issues started to occur, and it wasn’t growing upwards anymore.

Wonder if the plant just self-stalled out because the pot wasn’t deep enough or something.

What other supports would you suggest? I have more of the green stakes that you can see in the photo…. I also have long strips of pine board from some woodworking that are 8ft long, I could build a trellis of some sort if needed.

It just hasn’t grown much in height so I haven’t crossed that bridge.

[imafan26]

The stakes would not stall out the growth, but the nutritional deficiencies probably did. Fabric pots will lose water faster and they air prune roots. Tomatoes do have large root systems. I use 18 gallon pots, but they are not fabric so they do not root prune. The roots go out the drain holes and go into the ground. I have a 7 ft CRW trellis the ends of the CRW panel (10 ft long) are wrapped around the 18 gallon pots at the end forming 2 cages around the pots. Because the trellis goes to the ground, the effective height of the cage is really about 5 ft. The indeterminate tomatoes will go over the top and hang down again.

You could pound 8 ft stakes in the ground but you will lose some height. You could put the tomatoes between the stakes and do a Florida weave. I don't like to prune, so I would use the 7 ft CRW and make cages 24 inch diameter would fit around the pot. For a taller trellis you would have to put the CRW cage in the pot and stake it for stability. I don't do that because it makes the pot top heavy and more likely to fall over if the pot does not have straight sides.

Alternatively, I have gotten square folding tomato cages. They are about 39 inches high but can be double stacked and reinforced with 8 foot stakes. These will almost fit inside the 18 gallon container. Usually one leg will be outside the container. Again, because it is top heavy it works best on the 17 gallon muck buckets or half barrels with straight sides and not as well on tapered plastic pots which will get knocked over in a stiff wind, unless you pound rebar around the pot to keep it from falling over.

You can probably find crystal lick buckets if you live near other farms that have cattle. Those you can get very cheap or maybe even free.

https://www.biglots.com/product/gray-bu ... p810562945

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Southern-Pa ... -Density-R

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C6XD86RM?ta ... uage=en_US

I can't believe the prices of these things now. The links are just to show you what they look like. I would see if you can find something cheaper locally. I got my folding tomato cages from Lowe's and I buy muck buckets when they go on sale.

[WeekendWarrior]

Ok, thank you!

Yes, prices of everything have gotten completely out of control in the past 2 years or so. Just absurd and unsustainable Have to do essentially everything DIY now. Good learning it all, but not great for time management.