suggestions for where to move to

[rainbowgardener]

I really can't stand these winters any more and I think I finally convinced my partner to leave also, so we are starting to think about where to go.

She wants to stay eastern half of the country, not too close to the ocean (sea levels are rising you know). We don't want deep south or super hot, but we want warmer than here, probably zone 7 or 8.

We are thinking about places like TN, NC, SC, AR, possibly VA, MO, Northern mountainous GA.

We don't want the big city, but smaller towns / suburbs outside of cities are OK. University/ college towns are nice. Walkable/ bikeable/ scenic with parks, hiking, rivers, mountains a big plus. Little snow, winter temps that don't spend a lot of time a whole lot below freezing. Oh and affordable, lower than average cost of living and housing prices, we don't have big bucks to do this with.

I know, not asking a lot!

So any of you live in places like this or have suggestions?

[PaulF]

Amazing that a lot of us northerners are thinking the same thing this year. We just got home from a couple weeks in Mebourne Beach, Florida. Both my wife and I agree we need to become snowbirds. That is a great place for a few months in the winter, but gets way too hot in the summer. We like our home in Nebraska for the growing season so we are looking for a warm, inexpensive place for winter. The Florida place belongs to our son who lets family (both our side and his in-laws side) spend time there so taking over for several months is out. Too expensive for us to buy there.

Here is the result of my investigation so far: southern Missouri or northern Arkansas in the hill country has some very inexpensive costs of living. Lots of small towns close to larger populations. If you are looking for a year round home, western Arkansas in the Mena area is cheap, with good weather and fairly good soil with lots of activities and bigger small cities near-by. Another choice may be in Alabama around the Auburn area if you like more easterly. South Carolina is our third choice but I have not pinpointed a specific area.

I will keep track of this thread for more good ideas. Thanks for starting it.

[imafan26]

When selecting a place also consider availability of healthcare and good transportation. I was actually quite surprised to learn that Hawaii with the first or second highest cost of living has two other things going for it over most bigger cities. The first is an excellent bus system. I didn't think so, until I visited the mainland and found out how much worse it is in some places. Here, for the most part one bus fare will get you anywhere around the island. Some places like where I live, the Bus comes every 20 minutes, it used to be an hour. However, our area does not have good coverage so it can still be a mile to the nearest bus stop and while there is an express bus, on an expanded route, it is only available during certain hours of the day. The tourists actually use it to go sight seeing by getting a weekly pass.
Second,and this gets more important as you get older is access to a major trauma center, and easy access to healthcare. All of the trauma centers are on Oahu, but for the neighbor islands, there are fewer choices and they have to medivac in and the hospitals are more like clinics and are not staffed with cath labs, neuro trauma centers (for strokes), or able to do emergent surgery. Very expensive, and time is often of the essence for a good outcome. I found out it can be worse on the mainland where trauma centers are hundreds of miles apart and healthcare options can be spread out over great distances.
Third, for the sake of your wallet, you want to not only look for places with a decent cost of living, but a place that does not have aging infrastructures or the local taxes will kill you. I was told that is why most of the car manufacturers and Hollywood movie makers are doing business in places like Virginia and Atlanta, they have better tax incentives and lower production costs.

[rainbowgardener]

Yeah, we can't be snowbirds, so year around living. Definitely bus system along with bikeable/ walkable is important. Hadn't thought much about health care, but some of the "best places to retire" lists I've been checking have that factored in.

Some of the top places on our list so far: Greenville or Aiken SC, Clarksville or Chattanooga TN, Fayetteville, AR, Gainesville GA.

But I really, really appreciate all the responses and suggestions so far. Keep them coming! All responses will be seriously investigated!

[Susan W]

Yes, the grass is greener.....
The points made need to be in consideration. For TN, check out Johnson City in E TN. It's been a haven for like minded folk, and I think still affordable. With the Univ, has some needed amenities. As I am in extreme SW TN, is only 450 mi away! Clarksville doesn't ring any bells to be a destination, spare the base. As mentioned, parts of AL OK, and closer to the coast. Ark? Sorry for anyone here living there for negative vibes. For the most part is either delta, being flat and agricultural, or hilly and rocky.

In checking out areas, a few things come to mind. Visit for more than 2 days, different seasons. Does this town have re-cycle, community gardens, theater, interesting independent restaurants. You don't have to take advantage of all, but gives you a clue on the social consciousness of the area.

Just some thoughts.

[lily51]

My husband and I were just having the discussion on how many people experiencing yet another very cold and snowy winter are ready to move!
We have decided that starting next year we will spend 6-8 weeks someplace warm. We were in San Diego in Jan and loved it. We are trying florida soon.
As far as permanent place maybe the Carolinas? They still get some cool weather but not usually do miserable as ohio. You would have to pick the right place as it can be very humid and miserable in summer. We have friends that live Tennessee and they love it.
Do some visiting to see what appeals to you so that by next year you'll be in sunnier, warmer and less snowy surrounds!

[KeyWee]

How about where I am ~ in western Kentucky? I came from z5a WI in 2004 for the same reason (well, one of the reasons, anyway) ~ a better gardening zone. Although we are getting some snow today (not a bad thing) we have a long growing season that begins in March (the time when REAL spring is really supposed to start). We can garden well into November in a good year. That makes our winters pretty short. Nice college town (Murray) near me and Paducah is only 30 miles, where you will have some "better" restaurants, shopping, and a fine arts center. We are also blessed with the nearby LBL area (Land Between the Lakes) which is a national wildlife area that has EVERY outdoor activity imaginable. This is all within a 50 mile radius (or less). Plus only two hours from Nashville if that's your thing. Add low property tax into the mix, and if you can stand a little bible-thumpin (you tune it out after awhile) you got it made. Also, land and property are reasonably inexpensive, so there ya go. We have a spare room if you want to check it out:)))

[digitS']

... quietest and the loudest places in the United States (link)

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

very interesting, but it looks like pretty much all the quiet is west of the Mississippi or northern New England. Neither of those meet our other criteria. But it would be nice... I take it more quiet means less humans, more undeveloped land, more wildlife...

[tomf]

It was 60 at my house yesterday. Not a good year for skiing.

[tomc]

Look at mountains on east coast. With elevation you will still get some winter some years, but less than here.

FWIW I moved from NH to OH, so the winter would be better...

[!potatoes!]

I'm in the asheville, nc area, and have been for going on 9 years. generally doesn't get too hot in the summer or too cold in the winter - for long (currently 1.3F though after two days of ice and snow)....usually doesn't last long. lots of cultural stuff going on, some of which is geared for the tourist set and may not be your cup of tea (want to tour the dozen or so local craft breweries?). lots of woods around. average last frost is in mid-april (though later at surrounding elevations) and average first fall frost is in late october. highest biodiversity in the contiguous US.

[rainbowgardener]

I've been in Asheville and I love it. Beautiful and as you say so much going on in arts and culture. But due to the elevation, winter temps are not much different than mine (though less snowy) and the frost free growing season is actually a bit shorter than mine.

(davesgarden.com has a frost free growing days by zipcode feature, put in your zip code it gives the average first and last frost dates and average number of frost free days. Whether or not it is totally accurate, I'm using that for all the places I look at to have some kind of standardized measure.)

Longer growing season with more frost free days is one of my criteria. But mainly re Asheville, it doesn't really meet my definition of affordability. We have looked around there and housing seems really expensive. Partly we are a bit spoiled, because Cincinnati actually has some of the lowest cost of housing and cost of living of any major city. So in order to avoid moving to somewhere more expensive, we have to be pretty strict.

But thanks for the suggestion... In many ways it is a good one.

[rainbowgardener]

So far we are homing in on Chattanooga TN, partly for personal reasons, re relatives in TN, and partly for some combination of affordability, sunny days, frost free days, presence of Quaker Meeting, etc. We are starting to plan a vacation trip to check it out.

[imafan26]

They are supposed to have great open markets there too.

[Rairdog]

Good luck RBG with the trip to TN. I was a navy brat and lived in WA, HI, FL, MD/VA that I remember. Then back to IN where mom was from. Since college I travel and lived in GA twice, NC twice, VA, Upstate NY twice, IA, WV, UT, WA, MI, KS, NJ and went through them all except for extreme SW and NE. Overall, my heart belongs out west with mountains and ocean. Dad was from WA. If I had to choose east of the miss it would be southern smokies on the east side so I could get to the coast quick.

[applestar]

I've been following with interest.
Best of luck with your search for a dream home, Rainbowgardener!

[Bobberman]

I also want to move at age 71 to a warmer climate. I also want a place near some big water. I sort of like SC. because its close to the ocean but has access to even the florida area without too much driving! Te Savana area was ok but closer to the coast would be better. I just got back from a sport show in Columbus Ohio and it was really cold zero! pa. is too hilly and cold for me. I should have moved years ago. I did live in kY. when I went to college at Morehead State college in 1963. It was fairly warm. I lived in Vir. for a year and sold carpet there. t in !990 it was very hot there which turned me off big time. I was living in Lake Ridge about 40 miles from DC. Virginia beach area I liked better.! gardening and fishing is what I want to do all year long and Pa. is not the place.

[rainbowgardener]

Yes, not too terribly hot and humid in the summers was also one of the criteria, why we ruled out places like Florida.

Sperling's best places is a good place to start, https://www.bestplaces.net/find/default.aspx You can enter a city, town, zip code and come up with all kinds of metrics to compare them, cost of living index, lots of climate data, economy, crime rate, schools, etc etc,.

So I made up a spread sheet for this for easy comparison, looked at 18 cities/towns in AR, GA, KY, MO, NC, SC, TN, and VA that I had culled from various "best places to retire" "most affordable places to retire" etc lists, plus Cincinnati for comparison.

OH Cincinnati; pop 297K, frost free dates/days 4/19 - 10/17 (181); 44" rain, 20" snow, 176** sunny days, av Jul hi 88, av Jan low 22, comfort index 41*, cost of living index below average 83.

*comfort index is a Sperling's metric for how hot and humid it is in the summer, higher is better. Chattanooga's was the highest/ best on my list
**this is terrible, by far the worst on my list; coming from sunny SoCal, this is one reason I have never been comfortable here.

TN Chattanooga; pop 170K, frost free dates/ days 4/1- 11/4 (217); 53" rain, 5" snow, 207 sunny days, July av hi 90, Jan av low 31, comfort index 46; attractions U. TN, TN River, pretty and hilly, sited in a bend in the river like Cinti. Appalachian Mtns.; cost of living index below average 88; Quakers: Chattanooga Friends Meeting.

Although I grew up near the ocean, we deliberately stayed away from it - sea levels rising, storms getting worse, the coast is not going to be a real good place to be.

We are 68. My partner grew up in NW OH and she always used to like the snow (unlike me). But we are getting older, she has bad knees, snow shoveling is getting harder for her, and my tolerance for all this cold/snow/ice, etc seems to be getting less as I get older. I really did hang on here for awhile thinking that global warming might fix some of it. But no such luck. The eastern seaboard is regularly getting pounded with excess snow because of cold air hitting warm oceans; mid west is getting this polar vortex thing because of warming Arctic:

The blockbuster snowstorms and frigid temperatures seen in much of the northern hemisphere during the past few winters are in part the result of global warming-related Arctic sea ice loss, according to a new study published Monday. The study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, finds clear links between the precipitous decline of Arctic sea ice and severe winter weather in Europe, Asia, and parts of the U.S. during the past several years.
https://www.climatecentral.org/news/warm ... s-study-sa

so the last couple winters are likely not a fluke, but a part of the new normal for awhile.

That cinched the get out of here decision!!

[Bobberman]

Another thing to consider is bugs like in Florida there are plenty. I also like a nice shopping area with good food!

[rainbowgardener]

shopping and food is everywhere! We would like a walkable neighborhood, where there are stores, entertainment, restaurants within walking/ biking distance. However we also want 1/2 to 1 acre of land with our house, which is probably contradictory. The houses with half acre lots don't tend to be located near the stores and restaurants .

[digitS']

We need fundamental changes in how commercial enterprises are integrated into residential communities.

Your half acre or acre lots are often near shopping, RainbowGardener. Those that are near urban areas and secondary highways are also near strip malls.

These things do not need to be the neighborhood destroying things that they are! Conventionally, they are walled off from the residential communities which they border, just across an alley. Some folks got the idea this was best.

Maybe, it was quieter ... for a time. At no time is the error in that thinking more obvious as when these strip malls begin to loses businesses, as suburban development occurs ever "farther out" from the urban center. Or, when the structures are razed because no one can think of a use for the buildings or space. Cheap nearby homes to buy ... during those decades!

The businesses along these 45mph highways need to be better integrated into the human communities where they are located. Simply better planned access from the blocks behind the shops would be a big step in the right direction.

Maybe, you can take several days to drive around your prospective new locations. Look carefully at the commercial developments along the secondary highways. Then, take a side street. If there is a park nearby, not an acre of asphalt but a place with green grass and trees (& I like elementary schools and playgrounds, too ), maybe you have found your oasis of large lots within walking distance of shops and even easy access.

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

Good ideas, digitS.

Yes, I have spent time in Costa Rica. They don't have the same kind of zoning we do. Many people have their businesses in their homes, even small restaurants. They don't have huge stores and malls like we do, but little shops are scattered through the residential neighborhoods, sometimes even small assembly plants. So work, business, shopping, eating and residences are all integrated and everything is in walking distance. They also don't have rich people and poor people segregated--small, shabby houses may be right next to large, fancy ones. It was not at all noisy or industrial, and there was way less traffic, since there are very few big, busy streets, lots less people have cars and they use them less.

I loved it! I really wanted to move there, but I couldn't convince my partner. TN is her idea. I wanted Costa Rica and 80 degrees year around!

[PaulF]

So now my wife is zeroing in on the Aplalatchacola, Florida area for a winter residence. Any thoughts?

[Susan W]

RBG, From what I can tell, the main part of Chattanooga may be just your style. One thing to check there as you are looking at real estate is internet. Sounds bizarre yes. But, was reminded today on some stupid laws and political stuff on who gets what. If you are not on the city run system, which sounds awesome, or in an outlying town with comcast type, not so good, out from town, out of luck. Just another factor to file in your checklist!

[hendi_alex]

We live in central S.C. and IMO the area has a lot to offer. Property is inexpensive with nice starter homes for $85K or less, but more importantly the property tax is very low, perhaps $400 per year on 1200 square foot house. South Carolina does not tax Social Security, gives a $15K per individual tax credit on retirement income, and gives a $50K per year exemption on assessed value of owner occupied home. To me this is not the most beautiful part of the state, nor does it have the most interesting trails and waterways, though it does have abundant resources of that type. Thing is, we hop into the car and in under two hours we are at the beach, or in just over 2 hours, we are in the mountains. We live very rural, but it is a 15 minute drive to most any convenience, and only a 45 minute drive to Columbia which has most any retail store available. Our area is nothing like a college town, but once again, just a short drive to the 5 points area in Columbia or the campus itself. We are under three hours from Charleston, under four hours from Atlanta, under three hours from the N.C. triad area, and less than 2 hours from Charlotte. When balancing cost, convenience, available services, and location, central South Carolina has a lot to offer!

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks, hendi! Nice to hear someone recommending their own area. Definitely will look in to it more. On my list of possibilities were Greenville and Aiken, SC. What do you think?

[hendi_alex]

To me, the area is much prettier up there than it is here in the midlands. On the downside, I've planted all of my tender plants by the third week in April and my brother who lives in the Greenville area usually has another 5-6 weeks to wait. They get hit with snow more often, have about 2-3 months shorter growing season, have to live with red clay, rocks, and the accompanying red mud. Property values are higher, property taxes are higher I think, services in general are higher. Very beautiful, but comes with many trade offs. One aspect of central S.C. is in being centrally located to the many places mentioned in the previous post. From Greenville to the coast is a much more demanding trip. I would be very hesitant to move to a red clay yard. Sand is poor for gardening, but clay offers many challenges to gardening as well, plus is so much more messy!

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks for the heads up. I'm used to pure yellow clay, but I'd just as soon not trade my yellow clay yard for a red clay one!

[hendi_alex]

For gardening, water costs can also be an important factor. Here in rural Camden, Cassatt water is pretty reasonable with our normal winter water bill being under $30. Still would get to be $60 or more if watering the garden regularly. Putting a well down in this sandy soil is much more inexpensive than going through clay and bed rock. Our wells are usually under 100 feet deep, with a 4 inch well costing less than $2000. Under sand, the water is usually very clean and sweet, with little mineral hardness.

I don't want to mislead you though, clay areas abound all around this area. I would just choose from the sand or black soil areas though, when searching. North Carolina is mostly red clay, but the coastal plain will have many sandy areas just like here in S.C.

The best soil in S.C., IMO, can be found in Florence/Darlington, and surrounding area. Lots of rural land available, lots of black, deep, very rich soil in many places.

[ElizabethB]

RBG - have you made a decision yet?

I had to go through lots of pages of your posts to find this one.

You KNOW I LOVE my state. South Louisiana would not suit you at all. Much too hot and humid. Central Louisiana may suit you. Natchitoches comes to mind. A medium sized, University city. LOTS of culture and history - and festivals. Far away from the gulf so hurricanes are not a big issue. Cost of living is much lower than Lafayette Parish. I 49 provides easy access to larger cities. 1 hour north to Shreveport, 2 hours south to Lafayette, 4 1/2 to 5 hours south east to NOLA.

Home construction is a mixed bag. There are lots of old Victorian style homes. Some Crafts Man style construction. Newer homes are mostly wood framed, brick construction - either on a slab or on pillars. Lots of trees, camellias and azaleas. A very quaint down town area.

Year round growing season if you plant fall crops.

Not as humid as south LA.

I saw several post about Ashville, NC. I spent a couple of days there several years ago. Loved the architecture and the ambiance of the city. Winters are too cold for my taste. Go figure.

Have you made a decision?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[Susan W]

Natchitoches? Of course 1st requirement is pronunciation, and I won't even try! I've been there several times to Ft St Jean Baptiste as a re-enactor and sutler. Spare the pretty downtown strip with restaurants and shops, didn't see many redeeming features. The history is interesting (French, Spanish and Native). Trains are constant, full whistles going, and police love to turn on sirens at night (when one is camping is a bit much).