Question about Indoor fluorescent lights...

[alisios]

I've been looking around for the best option- I know it's about lumens, but what I've found is that the compact fluorescent lights that say "daylight" don't have as high a rating as, say, the "indoor" (as noted by the candle) - even the "Plant" lights have less lumens than the "indoor" ones...

So, is it really about "more lumens" bang, or is the color of the light also a factor?? How many thousands of lumens should I be looking for in the end? I've read "BonsaiHunk", but didn't really get an idea of how much is enough... without going halide or something...

I have to keep these little babies going until it gets warmer... ain't they cuuuute!?

[img]https://www.robertcory.com/webdata/mesquitebabys.jpg[/img]

btw, I have 2 GE aquarium 18" (510 lumens each), one OTT lite compact (785 lumens) and one N.Vision Daylight (around 630 lumens) - all within inches of the tops of the plants...

[opabinia51]

What you are looking for in a grow light albeit a flourescent or not, is the proper wavelengths of light such that your plants can photosynthesize sugars such that they can burn those sugars to power their energy producing cells.

Anyway, a flourescent growth light should do the trick for you.

[alisios]

Thanks opabinia! I guess that's my question - are grow lights better even though the lumens are rated way lower than, for instance "Bed & Bath" lights...

[img]https://www.nvisioncfl.com/images/products/738-704.jpg[/img]

this light has 1600 lumens... while this light (a grow light) has 785 lumens:

[img]https://www.robertcory.com/webdata/ShowImage.aspx.jpeg[/img]

[arboricola]

This may help.

https://extension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/hort/g06515.htm

Phil...

[Gnome]

alisios,

These new ones look much better than the other two. Also, now you can see what I meant about "seed leaves" In his book "Bonsai in Your Home" P. Lesniewicz list the amount of light required for various species indoors. He shows 800 Lux at the low end of the scale and 2000 Lux at the high end. I would assume most desert plants would want a lot of light.

Time to get your calculator out.

1 Lux = 1 Lumen/square meter.
1 Footcandle = 1 Lumen/square foot.

To convert Lux to Footcandles multiply by 0.4

The amount of light available to a plant is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the plant and the light source. This is why it is so important that you keep the lights as close to the plant as possible without exposing the plant to excessive heat. This also is also one reason why incandescent lights are inappropriate.

I don't know if this helps or only confuses matters more.

Norm

[alisios]

Thanks to everyone for the help...

I guess the bottom line is about lumens - not about whether or not it's a grow light - right? Does color matter?

[opabinia51]

Wow, well we've certainly covered grow lights here... this is a great thing.

Personally, I've always just bought a grow light and never worried about the intensity of the light that it gives out. I have never had a problem with the light being to bright or not bright enough and my plants do really great.

However, if you use an incandescent bulb, they do get really hot so, some distance is needed between your seedlings or plants so as not to burn them.

Excellant discussion Alsios, excellant.

[Gnome]

alisios,

Yes color, or wavelength, is relevant. I must admit that I do not understand this as well as I wish. The link that arboricola provided offers some insight to the question. Blues and reds are apparently more important than other wavelengths.

Norm

[alisios]

Here's some info I gathered from here:

Ynot said:

My Ficus, Serissa, and Jades live under lights that are on 12 hours a day [Timers are cheap ] when not outside in the suitable seasons.

IMO LED are far too expensive.

Metal Halide & High Intensity Discharge, High Pressure Sodium both also have this issue [For the average hobbyist- IMO] as well as being inefficient wrt energy and much of this energy is wasted as heat. [I have heard that the HID systems are getting more energy efficient recently.]

Heat is a major issue by itself as incandescent bulbs often need to be a 12" to 16" or farther away from the trees and MH HID, & HPS often require their own ballast as well as additional ventilation to dissipate the extra heat they generate.

I use A pair of 4' shop lights w/ fluorescent full spectrum bulbs, [27 watts, A color temperature of 6000 and they put out about 10 to 12,000 lumens as I recall] On occasion this has been supplemented in spots with a few of those spiral shaped fluorescent bulbs situated in clamp lamps.

It is important to know the distinction between 'watts' and 'lumens' when you are shopping for plant lighting, As buying a 'higher wattage' bulb may simply be increasing your electric bill and benefiting your trees only marginally.

A 'Watt' is a measurement that refers to the amount energy the bulb consumes.
IE: Your power bill is measured in kilowatts [kw=1000 watts]

A lumen can essentially be defined as a measure of the amount of visible light emitted [Or available at the point of measure.]

Do always look at the packaging, It is a relevant thing to know .

and

More lumens the better! Look for something in the 5000 to 5500K color temperature range for balanced growth, [It is on the package. 3000K is for blooms- 6500 is more green foliage oriented...All will work]

I am glad to see your shopping for a fluorescent bulb [With an eye on the lumens no less! Remember that the 'watts' re: to the power consumption-Not the brightness. ]

You can get that bulb [or similar] and an [Admittedly ugly] reflector for less than 15$. Or go whole hog and get 4' shop lights for under 40$.....

and

Light intensity reduces massively over a very short distance.
The technical geek way to put it is generally: The reduction in light intensity is equal to the square of the distance.

Which simply means that if you have a tree 1' away from the equivalent of 1000 lumens and then you double the distance to 2' you now have only the equivalent of 250 lumens. this number drops even more dramatically as the distance grows. 6' of distance and less than 28 lumens reach the tree. I know this is a bit off your original post but It's frustrating to hear people who put their indoor tree 5' away from the window for fear of the :shudder: direct sun when most likely it is the lack of humidity that is slowing it down [And it could really use the sunlight too. I accept there may be temperature issues with some species.]

I also found a gentleman that performed some indoor light experiments for his venus fly traps:

https://waynesthisandthat.com/fluorescent.html

C

[alisios]

Some setups from people on this forum:

Sailfins converted waterbed frame (looks great - like something your significant other might like too) :

[img]https://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7849/img0211ni7.jpg[/img]

Arboricola's cool system - I like this because you could even brace the light with the shelf brackets and raise and lower the light as needed:

[img]https://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e188/coloradus/Lightsetup.jpg[/img]

Here's my temporary solution (pic complete with drop shadow 'cause I have no life! ) - it consists of 2 18" thin lights mounted on a board - the board is suspended by some extra pavers - I uses a standard plactic tray underneath and lined everything with foil... The thin lights are GE Plant & Aquarium lights and the other lamps have one n-vision 27 watt "daylight" (1300 lumens, 5500kelvins) and one OTT lite in the other (I think I have the blues and reds in the spectrum covered...

I will build something better when I get the time - if it's enclosed, I'd add a fan...

[img]https://www.robertcory.com/webdata/lillitebox.jpg[/img]

[opabinia51]

Thanks for all the info Al,

this is a very useful thread.

[alisios]

Here's a new light box I made - its' frame is made from 1x3 wood and painted with a flat white paint on the inside. I had read that flat white reflects well (as opposed to semi gloss).

There are 4, 2 foot fluorescent lights mounted underneath the top which can be raised and lowered by sitting on some dowels (inspired from a bonsaihunk.us picture) These lights are all wired together and are on a timer that goes from 6am to 11pm (17 hours)

I used aluminum flash molding on the sides of the lights to help hide the bulbs and also reflect some more light down...

I have 2 GE Plant and aquarium wide spectrum, and 2 philips "Cool White" bulbs - I somehow felt better mixing the two types of bulbs...

As a additional light source, there is another lamp with an n-vision 1300 lumens CF daylight bulb...

I'd like to add a little fan in the future... Well, here it is:

[img]https://www.robertcory.com/webdata/newlightbox.jpg[/img]

[Bonsai_Angel]

Hey, I'm new to caring for bonsai...I happen to have a Ginseng bonsai, and I am not sure about how to get it the proper amount of sun it needs...ps I keep it inside...

[alisios]

Even if you used a light in a table top desk lamp, it would help - The more light the better...

https://www.bonsaihunk.us/info/IndoorLight.html

[brian]

That information about lighting is great! I am still a bit confused however about the duration of exposure. should the duration of light be changed to represent seasonal changes in daylight. Great topic thanks for all of the information. Have a great day and God Bless, Brian

[rondo769]

When I first started growing orchids I went with florecents but found out vey quickly they were not getting enough light so I went to lowes and bought a 125watt metal halide and haven't had any problem since.I don't know if the florecents were the wrong light spectrum or what but orchids have been thriving ever since.

[xTorchesTogethr]

what do u guys think about those new eco bulbs? I'm putting together a spot for my first bonsai (havent ordered it yet) and I have some white light eco bulbs would they work?

[rondo769]

Plants have to have a certain ligt spectrum to grow well,there are plant lights you can buy(plant and aquarium).Florecent light work well in combonation with natural light but alone,will not give the plant what it needs.I use a 100W metal halide for my plants,you could go more watts,but I found it works well combined with natural light,If you have anymore questions post here and I will try to answer the best I can.

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