Lindsaylew's 2014 Garden - Upstate, SC

[Lindsaylew82]

I use neem oil. I use it weekly. I have used a combo milk spray. It tends to funk up my sprayer, though.
IME, I've only seen it slow things down in my climate. Nothing prevents fungus here, just slows.

[suegardener]

Yep, continual problem here in the humid South. From what I gather, using it religiously starting before there is any evidence of trouble is the way to go. Maybe after this year I will have some idea. Of course if everything is dead from svb before it is sick from fungus then I will never know. I am using it alone not in combination and no problems with gunking up. I may end up alternating with neem.

[Lindsaylew82]

Yep, continual problem here in the humid South. From what I gather, using it religiously starting before there is any evidence of trouble is the way to go.

I agree. You can stave it off for a bit, but it take a rigid schedule. I'm usually a lot more rigid if I have squash bugs. Bug control also helps stave off plant disease. Lots of bugs carry disease. Plant injury and stressed plants are also more prone to infections.

This year I've not seen much in the way of powdery mildew or downy mildew. Squash have a spot. Just 1.

Nearly every plant has a SVB. I've been battling chlorosis in the squash, but not the zucchini. Idk...it's kinda weird. I think maybe because the SVB damage is more advanced in the squash? Just a theory... This whole growing season has been kinda weird... No squash bugs, very few tomatoes, LOADS of hornworms and fruit worms, HUGE plants.

[Lindsaylew82]

I am using it alone not in combination and no problems with gunking up.

No gunking, funking! It stinks of soured milk.

[applestar]

I like using milk spray because it's pretty harmless, and I don't have to worry about getting the spray on myself (skin). But it's true the mixture should be freshly made with good milk (and whey), used up completely, and the sprayer should be thoroughly rinsed and make sure to spray out the nozzle. Wash clothes immediately, but your hair and skin can benefit from the leave-on masque/beauty treatment.

[suegardener]

Oh, stinkiness! I am just washing out with soap and freezing any excess. So far no problem. I am even using some milk which had kind of gone off and was saved frozen for this purpose. From what I read, it doesn't seem to matter whether fresh, dehydrated, frozen, skim or whole. I guess time will tell.

By the way, your garden looks fabulous and wildly productive. I am still suffering from over-planting syndrome. Re: bush beans versus pole beans, it is pole beans all the way for me. I plant a very few bush beans for earliness but the pain is not worth it. Rattlesnake beans are among my favorites. I am happy to share a few seeds if you would like. Great flavor, tough and hardy and continue to produce until frost. And if you let them get away from you, you just have some dried pinto-type beans. I have been growing some on an upright fencing we set up over a raised homemade big planter box (10 feet tall and it's not high enough). It is set up right at the back steps so I can stand on them to pick. This year, added something new. Arches! for beans, tomatoes, etc. from cattle panels like you have seen all over the internet. The picking should be vastly better.

Very good observations about the strangeness of this year. We are having a different set of strange here in Alabama. My garden went in very late so some strangeness is just becoming apparent. No problems here with fruit-set on the tomatoes, though.

[Lindsaylew82]

I've got some arching trellis ideas. I'm thinking PVC. Something I can move around and take apart during the winter for a "tidy" looking winter garden.

We are setting heavy fruit now! But just for a few weeks.

You can use powdered milk, too! I like neem because it's a double duty agent. Insecticide and fungicide. On NORMAL years, I'm battling squash bugs BAD! What I don't find and handpick, gets dosed with neem. Maybe my diligence is paying off? Who can say? I've been neeming since 2010! I think I may be taking credit where it isn't due. Last winter was harsh. I think that's helped, too.

Thanks for the compliment!

[Lindsaylew82]

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUN!....

That's what I initially thought when I saw this.


That's a zucchini leaf, and I thought they were freshly hatch squash bug eggs, but they're stink bugs.

I don't know what the heck these are...

I think I'll do a separate post id on them.

4 more tomato horn worms and this dude inside my squash. He moves pretty quick! He went down the garbage disposal.



Some blushing on my brown berry. The first was SUPER tasty!

I had to do a LOT of pruning tonight. Blight is creeping up quickly. My plants look like trees!

[lakngulf]

I am still suffering from over-planting syndrome.

suegardener, you will have to do a forum search on PETC. We need a help group for those who Plant Everything Too Close

[lakngulf]

Re: bush beans versus pole beans, it is pole beans all the way for me. I plant a very few bush beans for earliness but the pain is not worth it. Rattlesnake beans are among my favorites. I am happy to share a few seeds if you would like. Great flavor, tough and hardy and continue to produce until frost. And if you let them get away from you, you just have some dried pinto-type beans. I have been growing some on an upright fencing we set up over a raised homemade big planter box (10 feet tall and it's not high enough). It is set up right at the back steps so I can stand on them to pick. This year, added something new. Arches! for beans, tomatoes, etc. from cattle panels like you have seen all over the internet. The picking should be vastly better.

Agree with you totally on the rattlesnake beans and cattle panels. I am finding lots of uses for the cattle panels. Here are my arching beans



This is with regular net wire, but the cattle panel would work even better.

[Lindsaylew82]

That looks like an ideal bean setup! Very nice!

I'm feeling discouraged. I go to sleep thinking about hornworms, then I wake up thinking about hornworms. My catch tonight included a VERY large hornworm that was not (that I could tell) parasitized. No dark sting marks, nothing. He was making a mess of the green sausage.




Total catch for tonight...
5-6 hornworms. Most were newly hatched. A bunch of newly hatch tomato fruit worms. 3-4 stink bugs, which fouled my soap, 2 cucumber beetles, a whole newly hatched nest of stink bugs, and a few leaf footed bug nymphs. Oh! And a potato beetle. Countless eggs. I think all Hornworm.


This guy on my bee balm. Too fast to catch, but likes his picture taken.


My 7' brandywine tree fell over today


Tasted some of my jalapeño peppers tonight. Not hot yet. But we are LOADED! Hot pepper jelly!



New Indigo Rose has it's first tomato. Very pretty purple plant. Would make a nice ornamental addition to edible landscaping! Compact, too.



Picked my first bit of okra tonight! Gonna sauté it in evoo and salt.



Squash plants are pumping out new growth now and I got about 3 gallons of squash and zucchini last night.



These marigolds. I mean WOW! At dusk, then look like smoldering embers! Lush plants. HAVE to save seed from these this year. They really made the garden beautiful this year!





Lots of beneficials. Tonight I saw a few assassin bugs, they're camera shy, lots of pink lady beetles, sweat bees, honey bees, bumble bees, wasps (large and small) and spiders.

This little fella wasn't scared of my camera at all!

[Lindsaylew82]

CARTERPILLARS! UUUUUGH!

I'm getting REALLY FRUSTRATED.

I pulled 14 hornworms of various sizes today. 5 off one plant! SOOOOO many eggs. Countless army worms and 2 more clusters of army worm egg clusters (most were black with parasite infections.

Most of my hornworm eggs are black, some are green, but most are black. Could they be infected with parasites?!?! I'm sure it's just wishful thinking on my part.

I never pulled the one plant that had herbicidal poisoning. I couldn't bring myself to do it. It's continued to grow, all curled and wispy. It's growth has improved slightly. It's put out 6 small deformed tomatoes on one truss. I won't get a crop that I'll consider eating, but it gave me an idea...

The last army worm egg cluster I found went to that plant, along with 7 horn worms. Ranging from newly hatched up to medium sized ones. (Mine puke when pulled off plants...anyone else notice that?)

I pull no less that five off my plants nearly every night. I'm on vacation next week. Not only are my first slicer toms gonna come in next week, I'm seriously worried about what's going to happen to the tomato plants. I feel like I'm waging a war that can't be won this year. I'm gonna BT them and I'm disappointed in my choice. I feel like I've worked so hard and been so diligent! It should be paying off.

If I spray, I'll leave the twisted knarly plant with the hornworms alone. I want them to be parasitized. Badly. If they aren't, or if something eats them, fine! I'll just flush their little cocoon butts down the toilet....

End rant. I'll gladly take advice if someone can come up with better. Definitely committed to organic practices. Trying very hard to be spray free. Neem is all I've ever used.

[Lindsaylew82]

https://www.wageningenur.nl/en/show/Para ... -moths.htm

Interesting stuff! I just read about how wasp parasitized caterpillars have a change in saliva that causes plants to both be less attractive to more moth infestation and more attractive to wasps.

I wonder if my pukey hornworms were any indication that they were infected!!! Normally they puke thick vegetation, but the bigger ones were puking a more brown, pale, clear substance. 2 days ago, I drowned one that had already puked all over his head/eye looking parts. (they remind me of Scotty Dogs...iDK why. Some lumbar X-ray positioning lingo I think...off topic.) I'm glad I saved some of the "sickies"! We shall see!

[applestar]

I know you've said you use neem. Is that neem oil or neem-derived insecticide/fungicide?

As often as you spray neem, I'm surprised that you still have caterpillar infestations. Shouldn't neem also be effective against them or their eggs (if you are using oil?).

Also, is there any chance that the use of neem is suppressing the beneficials' effectiveness?

Parasitic wasps and tachnid flies lay eggs on the caterpillars themselves or on leaves that are then ingested by the caterpillars. If these tiny eggs are susceptible to the oil effect, they might be destroyed even though the caterpillars manage to survive?

Also do you see much yellow jacket, hornet, paper wasp, or other larger wasp activity? They carry off caterpillars to feed to their babies. I see them scrupulously investigating every leaf around tomatoes, kale, etc. Male cardinals hunt hornworms in my tomatoes. I'm starting to see them hanging around the tomato beds, so I'm assuming that's what they are looking for, though I've also seen them going after praying mantids.

When I'm raising the Monarchs, caterpillars that are sick will puke green and sometimes have diarrhea. Usually they have some kind of bacterial infection (sometimes Bt but not always). The liquid green body fluids can be source of contamination so I isolate the sickies and remove all the rest of the caterpillars to sterilize the container before putting them back.

[Lindsaylew82]

I haven't used neem in 3 weeks. It's neem oil. Even when I was using it weekly, I still had infestation. I haven't been seeing any squash bugs, so I've backed off. They are the reason I started using neem at all, years ago. While I can slow fungal infections with neem, I cannot stop them here. Blight and mildews have started showing their faces despite my efforts. These are the reasons for my discontinued spraying. There egg clusters I'm finding from army worms are mostly black, which I've read means they've been parasitized. I need confirmation on that though.

There are butterflies all over these marigolds during the day. They are large healthy plants and they're heavily planted. I'm just wondering if the con of their bringing the moths at night is outweighing their pro of beneficials during the day.

At the moment, I've not sprayed. Still just relying on me.

ETA: I see wasps all the time. Yellow jackets and large great black wasps, all kinds. They like the cucumber, squash and beans more than tomatoes. I have a bird feeder that was empty for a whole week last fall. When I went to fill it again, there was a paper wasp nest. They are doing well this year. About 6 feet away from the back side of the garden. There are birds everywhere! I see cardinals sometimes. I mostly see blue birds, purple martins, mocking birds and cat birds. I have large trees on the east and north boarders of my garden. They nest and perch all over. I do plan on making some houses for the bluebirds. There are already LOTS of house boxes way up high for the martins. I need to add for feeders. I think my kid would enjoy making some pine cone, peanut butter, bird seed snacks.

[Lindsaylew82]

How do you know it's BT? Is it after you've used it? I know it occurs naturally, but I'm not sure of a source.

[Lindsaylew82]

Checked on my curly tomato plant tonight to see how my hornworms were doing. One definitely has some issues and isn't looking well. Neither one is eating...the first one looks a bit bruised. It was difficult to photograph, but he's bruised up, puny looking and puking brown and clear.



Number 2 looks normal but has a fuzzy head. Not eating.



I noticed this wasp hanging out on that same experimental plant tonight. I guess he's checking out the prospects!!!


I found this one on another tomato plant. He looks strange. Look at the first third of his body, he's fuzzy! Normal or abnormal?



He went to the experimental plant.

I didn't spray.

I picked my first blushing slicing tomato tonight. I'm gonna take it to the beach with me. I ate a sun gold that ripened completely on the vine. It was tasty. I don't think I'm in love with the sweeter tomatoes. I'm an acid lover. Rutger and pink Germans are the best in my memory, and a yellow that I saved seed from but didn't grow this year.

I'm done freaking out over the caterpillar problem. It is what it is, and I'm doing the best I can do.

[applestar]

Assuming they behave the same way, the Monarch caterpillars will stop eating and become motionless for about 8-12 hours when they are ready to molt and become next instar. Their skin looks loose and faded.

Newly molted caterpillars are generally lighter in color before their dark markings become clearer... Then they look "fresh".

I have also seen caterpillars that are defective for some reason and their molting/metamorphosis transformation is incomplete -- resulting in stunted front or back half.

The dark Armyworm eggs -- I have observed with Monarch butterfly eggs and Io moth eggs that they become black/dark just before hatching. Similar to the chrysalis, the shell changes from translucent to transparent and you are seeing see the caterpillar inside. The first instar is almost always black.

You might want to put some kind of solid mulch under these plants so they won't be able to burrow into the ground to pupate... or else you could diligently dig around the base of the plants to uncover any pupa. If you had chickens, I suppose they could take care of that.

[Lindsaylew82]

The dark Armyworm eggs -- I have observed with Monarch butterfly eggs and Io moth eggs that they become black/dark just before hatching. Similar to the chrysalis, the shell changes from translucent to transparent and you are seeing see the caterpillar inside. The first instar is almost always black.

Sigh.... I squished a few tonight, and they were just shells. Hatched already. I did read about the dark army worm eggs being parasitized...only from one source though, the one we couldn't "mouse over". I need to do a little more research.

Any time I search any combination of the words worm, parasitized, and egg, all I get is info about THW parasitic infections. That HAS been helpful also, but it's not as fruitful as I'd hoped.

[SusanRachel]

I am fighting my own hornworm and stinkbug battles. What is the best way to find the hornworms? I search where I see the defoliation occurring, but sometimes it takes me several days to locate the offending bug because they blend in. Is there a good trick? Also, what is the best way to find the eggs?

[applestar]

I am fighting my own hornworm and stinkbug battles. What is the best way to find the hornworms? I search where I see the defoliation occurring, but sometimes it takes me several days to locate the offending bug because they blend in. Is there a good trick? Also, what is the best way to find the eggs?

Did you know they glow in blacklight?
Some people go out with blacklight flashlight at night.

[Lindsaylew82]

I read this on the way to dinner and stopped and got a black light to go in the utility light! STOKED!

I'm gonna be disgusted, I just know it.

My sister and I stumbled upon a LARGE rat snake in the garden tonight. Much screaming, running and fretting went down. Sister said kill it, I said NO WAY! Me and snake had a talk about respecting boundaries and he slithered off. At least 6 feet long.

Made pickles tonight.

1 quart, 5 pints hot dill zucchini spears.

1quart, 5 pints regular dill zucchini spears.

5 half pints of zesty zucchini relish (without the horseradish)

5 pints of bread and butter cucumber pickles.




Pulled the pumpkin vines today. They were looking VERY nasty. Cut about 15 SVB grubs in half and squished 3 squash bugs with about 70 squash bug eggs. Got 4 nice pumpkins. They still have some green veining, but still jackolantern size!



Came home to a really large harvest! These zucchini are as large as my arm!






My mystery tomato is a Cherokee purple. 95% sure.

My dedicated hornworm tomato plant. 3 of the hornworms I placed last week are now parasitized.









I put 3 more hornworms on there yesterday. One of which is showing signs of slowed eating.

I got my black light ready for some more hunting tomorrow night! If it works, it will make collecting them MUCH easier.

[Lindsaylew82]

Went out to the garden late this afternoon when we had a break in the rain. It's rained for 3 days straight! My gardens ravines are very full! Tomatoes are cracking...

One of the infested hornworm's nest of braconids hatched. He is suffering. I almost feel bad enough to give him to the suds. One of the other two has his poor head curled under and he's cradling it in his first set of claspers. I pitty them, as nasty as they are... 3 newly transplanted hornworms are still devouring the nursery plant. No outward sign of parasitism, but there ARE about 40 new braconids hanging around...

[Lindsaylew82]

My hornworms did not glow.

https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/vi ... 39&t=59152

I found THIS fellow on a plant that was NOWHERE hear the nursery plant!!! He's small, too!


It's rained for 4 days straight... Garden is really starting to show sights of decline from fungal pressure.
Powdery mildew and downy mildew.







Pulled 3 more squash plants today. Found 4 squash bugs, and lots of eggs. I will resume neem oil tomorrow. 2 of the squash bugs were on the cucumber trellis. Weird... I am assuming they were chillin with the pumpkins that are no longer there. I forgot how much the stink when crushed...



Zucchini are still hangin in there!


Getting lots of tomatoes. Army worms are heightening their pressure. Lots of munching and circular holes. Pulled at least 5 large army worms.

Tomato harvest for today! Not shown are 3 cups of Sungold cherry tomatoes and 2 large yellow brandywine! Yummy to my tummy!


Nasturtium is flowering this week, too!

[Lindsaylew82]

I THINK the hornworms are slowing down! I'm back down to just a few a night! One I found tonight that was sick. Puking all over the place, so I'm think he found some naturally occurring BT somewhere, or he's been stung. The other two were biggish and went to the nursery plant. One of the parasitized worms is missing from the nursery plant. I'm assuming he died, and two of the larger ones I placed there are just GONE! I'm thinking feathered friends.

I put a new bird feeder on my old clothes line. The birds found it today and have been using it. It's a nut, seed, and fruit blend, so I hope it'll attract a lot of different birds. A female cardinal was perched on a rebar post this morning! Good stuff!

My mom has a UV/black light flashlight that was purchase for detecting pet urine. I will try that one later this week for hornworms!

I killed a lot of squash bugs tonight, with lots of eggs, too. 5 squash beetles, A TON of cucumber beetles, climbing cutworms, army worms....

These things, which are HUGE and TOTALLY gross me out. June bugs? Idk.


Indigo rose is blackening nicely!



So is this Black Sea Man. I didn't realize it did that. I also didn't realize until today, that I have always had a potato leaf BSM, but this year, it's a regular leaf. It's also REALLY struggling. Both of the stink bugs in this picture were harmed during the filming process.


Some extras:


Weed in my asparagus. I think it's black nightshade.



Tonight's dinner with crusty bread! YUM!

[ReptileAddiction]

Your garden looks great! How many tomato plants do you have?

[Lindsaylew82]

18!

[lakngulf]

Great looking garden and produce. Gotta love it when the earth brings forth the bounty.

[Lindsaylew82]

Thank you!!!

[DDMcKenna]

Absolutely awesome photos, thank you so much for sharing them. That is an amazing garden and you are definitely the master of your trade.

[Lindsaylew82]

Absolutely awesome photos, thank you so much for sharing them. That is an amazing garden and you are definitely the master of your trade.

DDMcKenna

I'm just lucky! ;P

[SusanRachel]

Absolutely awesome photos, thank you so much for sharing them. That is an amazing garden and you are definitely the master of your trade.

DDMcKenna

I'm just lucky! ;P

That ain't luck. And it is beautiful.

[NancyJo]

very nice!! I love seeing your garden.

[Lindsaylew82]

Haha!

Thanks!

[Lindsaylew82]

Things are beginning to wind down in my garden. I pulled most of my squash, and several zucchini plants this weekend. The rows look barren! I have a tomato and two eggplant that were struggling under their shade that should do much better now that they'll have full sun. Flea beetles are destroying the eggplant. I'm a little surprised that they are so bad right now. We cut grass last night, and I put a thick layer of very lush grass clippings on the row followed by a heavy rain last night. Hoping that'll crust up and provide no hiding places. Lots of nasturtium left over, too.



Cucumbers are really dying down, but are trying to put out new growth.







I have some Asian long cucumbers that are starting to fruit now. Some are cute and funny! These are a first time for us!




Tomatoes are really rolling in now. I haven't seen a hornworm in a few days! I'm thinking it's just late in the season, but I'm giving my self a little credit, too. I've been working VERY hard! The uv/black light flashlight (made for cat urine, as Applestar suggested) worked MUUUUUUUCH better for catching hornworms!






It was a lot of fun, too.


My cherry tomatoes and small plums are starting to resemble grapes! They are growing along the horizontal strings between stakes. I think I like it!





I have been pulling tomatoes when I first see a blush of color. Army worms, climbing cutworms, and corn worms will take nibbles out of them if left on the vine.

Lots of large tomatoes! This one is the largest in my growing history (both organic and conventionally!).




Some of my plants just are NOT dealing well with this rain and heat. I probably won't bring them back next year. Black prince, yellow brandywine, and orange amana are done. They just do not appreciate my climate. They are currently wilted from base to tip. Black Sea Man has some kind of serious physiologic leaf roll. I don't know if that is normal for this cultivar or not. I should note that it is a regular leaf BSM, where normally this cultivar is potato leaved. Idk, but it looks like it's strugglin.

Black Prince


Black Sea Man with a perfectly healthy Black Krim right behind it.


I added a new bird feeder next to the tomatoes. It's very popular! Wrens, blue jays, blue birds, doves, cardinals, and purple martins have been frequenting the spot! I flooded the ravines this weekend which attracted lots of robins, too!


Noticed this creepy looking guy on my okra. He's been there for several weeks!


Some wider shots and extras!

[Lindsaylew82]

CLEARANCE TIME at my favorite nursery!

WHOOP! WHOOP!!! Yaaaaaaay! Cheap perennials!

[NancyJo]

what are you hoping to add to your garden Lindsay?

I have several wants, but waiting for the right prices , and I hoping to barter for a few also.

[Lindsaylew82]

I'm hoping for some perennials for shade. I need to do a better job of maintaining my front yard. We had 2 large oak pruned back this spring. But they'll provide lots of shave next year. I have a few largish spots that get deep shade and these rest is full shade to 4 hours of sunlight per day. Mostly dappled.

I'm looking for pots of bulbs like lily of the valley. He had some last year, but when I went back, they were gone . Astilbe, bleeding hearts, ground covers. I don't have anything mapped out yet, just a general idea in my mind. Hosta.

Right now he has a lot of stuff. I figure the big hit will be Friday, which is most of this town's PAYDAY, including mine. And. I'm. OFF!!! Woohoo!

I should take pictures of the space and post them...

[Lindsaylew82]

Also, whatever herbs he has. I lost some in last winter's harshness. I replaced both my French lavender and regular lavender and my common sage this spring, but they've all struggled this summer, all 3 died. Very strange. I definitely think there is time for them to better establish in the fall.

[ReptileAddiction]

Must be nice to have nurseries that clearance things. Here it is so warm that all the nurseries just keep selling all year long so they don't put stuff on sale.