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Kisal
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That's so great! I remember when I got my first Kom, I walked out into the dog run one day and found her with my cat Albert's head in her mouth! :shock: Needless to say, she got a firm "Stop that right now!" yelled at her. :lol:

That was sweet that he offered you his paw. I think it means "I'm sorry. I didn't understand. Please forgive me." And when you took his paw, he knew he had been forgiven.

When I got home from the hospital today, my dogs both just danced around me with joy. Climbed into my lap ... one at a time, of course ... and thoroughly licked my face. It was such a warm welcome home. I just love that kinda stuff from companion animals. Cats are usually a bit more subtle, but they have their ways of letting you know that your presence makes them happy. :D

Green Mantis
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Oh my, at least he didn't have her head in his mouth! Lol!!!! Bet that was a shock to you. Just wanted to ask what kind of dogs do you have now? I'm sure you have probably told us all, but??? Well he ate 1/2 a dish of dogfood this morning, he was only used to getting one feed a day, at night. So I guess breakfast is different for him. But he ate :) I think he did feel bad, after the cat incident, as she went by him later and he never bothered her, so hopefully all keeps going well............Will keep you posted. :) It really is nice to have companion animals at home, they make your house a "HOME". I always feel very bad for people, when they have to give up their pets, :( they mean so much to us all. I bet your's were happy to see you :D You were probably very happy to see them too. Hospitals aren't fun. :(

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Kisal
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Large, deep-chested dogs should be fed smaller rations, twice a day, rather than one big meal. Then, it's important to keep them somewhat quite for an hour after they eat. A nice, quite walk, instead of a romp in the park, for instance.

A dog's stomach hangs kind of like a hammock, and when full, can flip over, causing torsion bloat. If that happens, it's an emergency, because it can be fatal within a matter of an hour or two. Symptoms are that you can actually see the dog swelling up, it will be standing hunch-backed with it's head down, drooling and trying to retch, but unable to. The entry to and exit from the stomach have been twisted, so the food cannot be vomited up easily, nor can it pass into the intestine.

I had it happen to an Old English Sheepdog I fostered for awhile. You could actually stand and watch him slowly swelling, like a balloon being inflated. I rushed him to the only vet that was open at that hour of the morning. The vet removed a large-bore needle from a syringe and inserted it between a couple of the dog's ribs, into it's stomach. Then he put a little morphine powder inside each of the dog's lower eyelids, to make him vomit. That was the first aid. Surgery to reposition the stomach was performed after the dog had recuperated somewhat from the emergency. I was terrified throughout the entire experience. The vet told me about how important it was to feed large, broad-chested dogs twice a day, and then not to let them romp and run around for about 45 minutes to an hour afterward.

Look at your dog's chest. If it's broad across the front, and viewed from the side, the rib cage curves down deeply and then steeply up toward the narrow waist and the belly, this is how you should feed your dog. Believe me, you do NOT want to have to go through the horror I did that morning. :shock:

My current 4-legged pals are Angus, who is a black Lab mix. I don't know what he's mixed with, but the formation of his head makes it look like he might have some hound in him. He weighs 80 lbs and loves to schmooz with people. He firmly believes he IS a people. Even sleeps on his back on my bed, all 4 feet in the air and his head resting on the pillow. My "little" buddy is Daisy, who is half Dalmatian and half blue heeler. She weighs 50 lbs but she is convinced she's the size of a chihuahua and should be allowed to sit in my lap 24/7. :lol:

Green Mantis
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:wink: Bet your guys were so Happy to have you home!!! :) Since we have had Whippets, and now have another old girl, we are aware of Bloat with them and a lot of other breeds of dogs like that, greyhounds etc. We definately always watch for that. Don't need what happened to you happening here!--------That would NOT be good. Thank you for reminding us of it though. Lots of people are not aware that can happen. Thank goodness through the Whippets, we are. :) Our Pom sleeps like your Angus, upside down on the bed, it looks so funny! She loves sleeping that way. Silly girl.............They sure do give us something to talk about and to, for sure! Lol!!!

Green Mantis
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:) Just wanted to do an update on our Leonberger dog, "Grizzy"

He has definately decided after trying many different dry dogfoods, that he "loves" Lamb and Rice. He is now eating about half a medium sized dish in the morning, and one after we have had our supper. By that point he's so tempted, he eats!!!

He still isn't too sure about the cat, had growled at her once, but no more attacking or wondering where she is now.

He has also decided that he not only likes being a house dog ( never a accident yet!) "But" That he Loves to swim! Yikes!!! :roll:

We let him out in the yard for quite awhile during the day, if it's not pouring rain. He plays with our daughter's two bassets that we are also looking after. :roll: Plus our dogs like going out with him, but they don't play with him really. I "had" an idea I was going to put a gold fish or koi fish in the horses water tub, ( since our last old mini had to be put down in may) Well the first day I let him out there, I was having a look at the potential "Fish" pond, thinking that was a great place for one or two fish, Until, I went to get Grizzy after he had been out for awhile.

My hopes or a Fish pond were gone!! :( "Guess" "Who" went swimming!!! in my wanna be fish pond!!! :shock: What a mess!!!! After much drying off, he came back in the house. He's at least coming into different parts of the house now, before he just wanted to stay in the living room. Now he lays out by the office desk, while I am on the computer, or in the front of a little room ( once used for office supplies) opposite the office desk. He also is now starting to come in our bedroom. Plus he goes in and through the shop, to go out in the back yard. It doesn't scare him anymore.

He is also Actually starting to gain some weight!!! :clap: Plus now he has become a big mooch for treats too! :oops: When the other dogs share a piece of cheese, here sits the 'Moose" LOl!! Right beside the rest of the small dogs!!! What a Motley Crew!!! A Pom, A Whippet, an Oversized Chihuahua, and a Leonberger!

We weren't sure about leaving him in the yard, when we had to go out a few times, and couldn't take any of the dogs, but he never tried to climb or jump the fence, and was still there, looking very happy when we got back. Also Very Wet, from going swimming, Again!!!! He sure loves water!!!

He still gets very nervous when he hears loud noises, or if something startles him unexpectedly. But we understand where that came from, so will need lots of work on that. Sadly, some of these things may never go away? But he is sure making progress in leaps and bounds!!! Lots of brushing and vacuuming going on, still :roll: But he's a big hairy dog, that just wasn't brushed for a long time, so hopefully he will finish blowing his coat quite so badly soon. We sure do like him though! He is SLOWLY turning into an awesome boy!

We will get him neutered, when he has gained all his weight back, I just don't think he's up to that yet for awhile, plus all our girls are spayed, and our daughter's bassett's too, so he doesn't even think about that.

All in all, he is turning into a great member of the family!!! Just to get him past, the things that scared him in his other home. But it is coming thankfully!!. We sure do like Leonbergers! Great dogs. :)

cynthia_h
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Ah, yes. The swimming... Both of my boys liked the water. Myles liked to wade, Vergil LOVED to swim. He would go into the San Francisco Bay up to his neck and swim and swim and swim, just as happy as could be.

But my girls...heaven forbid that they should get their little toe-sies wet! Even during some heat waves we've had here, when I've taken my dogs to Point Isabel (on S.F. Bay shoreline), Vesta deigned to get her front feet wet only to the pasterns. Her back feet stayed dry dry dry. :?: silly girl.

You may want to become familiar with a grooming instrument called the [url=https://www.petedge.com/product/Mars-Coat-King-Strippers/44334.uts]Mars Coat King[/url], or "Mars comb." It is a wonder at taking out undercoat, while leaving the beautiful outer coat/guard hairs intact. I worked Vesta's coat over a couple of weeks ago, and since then the temp has spiked a couple of times, but she's not suffering from the heat. :)

The Mars comb (BTW, I recommend a size 6, Extra Coarse; anything else will pull and snag too much for "our" kinds of doggies' coats) should be thought of as "curved razors on a stick." It's quite safe to both dog and person when used correctly. If you decide to order it--and, believe me, it will do the job faster than any brush or rake--let me know when it arrives, and I can give you detailed help away from this thread.

Grizzy sounds like an absolutely 100% wonderful Leo, just a little gun-shy (= noise) from his previous life of stress. Is Dominion Day celebrated with fireworks? If so, keep him indoors. Panic attacks in large dogs aren't fun. :(

I'm so glad he got a home like yours. :D

Cynthia

Green Mantis
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:D cynthia_h............Thanks for the link to that brush. We have a big one somewhat similiar to it, that we used to get all the tangles and mats out with.

Also have a furminiator that does the undercoat. He just has a lot of hair! But that does look very interesting. I'm going to look up the name of mine that has very sharp edges, to cut through the mats, etc.

Forgot to add one more thing we are working with, his drinking, Yikes!!! :shock: The floor gets pretty wet! He takes a big drink, then as he's finishing, opens his mouth and lets a lot drop on the floor! :roll: Thank Goodness for paper towel.

That's comical, that your girls won't go past their fetlocks in the water!!! Can't get "wet" you know!!! Grizzy in the other hand couldn't care less how wet he gets! Mucky boy!

The joys of big dogs, gotta love 'em though!!! :wink: He will be "In" the house if firecrackers are going off for sure!!! He doesn't need that, nor do we.

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Kisal
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All my dogs have been sloppy drinkers. I fold an old bath towel in half, place in on the floor, and set the water bowl in the middle. Sometimes, I use 2 bath towels, so there are 4 layers of cloth to absorb "spillage". :lol:

Green Mantis
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:?: Kisal, Thank you, that's a very good idea!!! :) Except he doesn't have a water "DISH", He has a "BUCKET", Loves his water!

Whether he's in it, or Drinking it! Sloppy boy! :roll: We will definately try that towel idea!! Thanks again. :)

Quick small update, he's now sleeping in our bedroom, on the floor, beside my husband's side of the bed!! :)

Green Mantis
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:cry: Well this is not how we expected this to be. :cry: Grizzy was getting to be very happy here, but no matter how much we got him to eat, some days more than others, but even after a real good worming, he was getting thinner and thinner. We honestly thought he was going to die of starvation.--------We finally contacted Leonberger rescue, we just could not afford huge vet bills, that we felt he needed :?: But in the meantime a lady that has a leonberger, that is friends with the Rescue people, contacted me. She is prepared to put Insurance on him, and get him to the vet this coming wednesday. So we gave it a lot of thought, and met her yesterday, and turned him over to her. Her and her husband's kids are not home now, so they have lots of time for him. I Desperately hope we did the right thing. I think :?: we did, she will call me often, and let me know wednesday night what her vet had to say................We feel so bad. :cry:

cynthia_h
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Oh, I'm sooooo very sorry that Griz isn't able to stay with you. :( Such a sweetie, like Leos are. *wistful sigh* But there must be something systemic that he just isn't putting on the weight, even after settling into your home and getting over the stress of his previous situation. Anything could be going on, "anything" from a straightforward (well, it's not, really; I've had a cat with this diagnosis) hyperthyroid to...well...cachexia secondary to undiscovered, systemic cancer. :(

You feel, and rightly so, devastated. You put a lot of time and effort into this boy, and he was happy with you. But my rescue dogs, as much as I love them, have all cost me $$$ so far beyond their adoption fees that--no joke--I doubt I'll ever be able to retire. Perhaps not the best financial move, but we don't have children whose educations were being put at risk, and my chronic pain makes travel *very* difficult.

Although there have been treatments we have declined, there have been times when we've pushed the envelope in hopes of learning something of benefit to future Bernese Mtn. Dogs or related breeds. We know it's a privilege, but there were some times during Vergil's treatment when I was ready to transfer ownership to the medical team directing his treatment program because I was in almost over my head technically as well as emotionally. We'll be digging out from his treatment for another two years, I think.

So I understand why you needed to transfer his ownership to someone who could guarantee (and she did, didn't she?) that she would provide every medical treatment Griz needs. If that isn't the case, then I don't know what to say to you. But in rescue--and this is the hardest part of it, for true--the dog's best interest must come first.

"RescueGrrl" (RG) came to live with us on Christmas Eve 2010. I saw her as a companion for Vesta, who had stopped eating because she had lost Vergil's companionship on walks, rides in the car, and other simple daily activities, even though he was here in the house and alert. Vesta & Vergil had been a pair ever since he came to live with us in September 2004, after Myles died (August 28, 2004). So Vesta very much needed a friend and companion.

She and RG walked pleasantly together, slept next to each other, ate in the kitchen at the same time (although at the same 8-foot distance Vesta and Vergil had), etc., for four months. Two months before Vergil's death and two months afterwards.

Then, in late April, RG jumped Vesta, drawing blood. Vesta was completely surprised. I had gone downstairs to return to work on a deadline document, and DH had left the kitchen (the girls were eating dinner) :!: so they were momentarily unsupervised. RG took her opportunity. That was on a Thursday night. After that came the week of the three major injuries to ME due to RG: Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. My physical therapist (post-knee surgery) was concerned about me. I was concerned about Vesta and RG. DH left it in my lap. I watched Vesta very closely, to ascertain her feelings. She gave me mixed signals. :?

Then, one evening when DH drove home and the girls heard his car, they crowded each other in the doorway to the carport. RG jumped Vesta and--this time--I could NOT separate them due to a bad angle vis-a-vis RG's back legs. (My heretofore successful maneuver of lifting RG off the ground by her back legs had been absolutely guaranteed 100% for her to let go with her teeth and regain her balance with her front feet.) I couldn't get to her back legs, and I couldn't lift her off of Vesta; RG wouldn't let go with her teeth. And, this time, Vesta fought back. She was *furious.* She was *heroic.* She was NOT going to be denied her revenge.

It was positively scary. :shock: No lie.

DH heard me through the door, screaming at the girls to STOP, LET GO, OFF, etc. He let himself in and grabbed RG's back legs, lifting her off the ground and stopping the whole spectacle. I asked him to put RG into the crate so that I could look at Vesta for injuries and then look at RG for injuries.

They both had ear lacerations; Vesta had a neck laceration. Both were "wearing" saliva of the other. Later I found a chest scrape on Vesta, but it was surficial, thank God. I cleaned them both up with liberal applications of peroxide and cotton balls, massaged their legs against stiffness (Vesta is 11+ y.o., RG 5+ y.o.), and instituted a policy of strict separation.

I also wrote a long report to the Rescue Committee, tears pouring down my face, that we would have to rehome RG. Again.

Animals come to my home to live out the rest of their lives. I have *never* willingly let one go prematurely, but RG needed a different placement for Vesta's safety and, after that last incident, for her own. It was clear that neither girl was going to back down. Vesta had been dominant her whole life, even when we had a older, second female from 2001 to 2006, and she was in place already. RG was evidently used to ruling the roost, too, and *she* wanted to be Top Dog here as well. I had no wish for either girl to kill or badly injure the other.

I had to let RG go.

She is now the center of a man's life, a man whose life was turned upside down and inside out from November 2010 through May 2011. Each month, a new disaster beset him: lost one of his dogs. lost best friend. lost job when firm where he had worked went under. lost of teenaged son tragically via accident. wife became unstable due to loss of son, their only child. marriage disintegrated. lost second dog suddenly one morning. all this time, was recovering from his own long-term medical situation. He desperately *needed* an active, emotionally needy dog like RG, who in turn needed to be the queen of the household, the only dog, the only pet.

Tears still run down my face writing paragraphs like that one. I still miss her; I probably always will. She was a smart, beautiful, sweet, fast dog. The BEST learning dog--one repetition and she knew the behavior--I've ever seen, whether in a class, my old pet-sitting business, my dog club, or anywhere. I'd put her up against a Border Collie any day; she'd have a good shot! :) But that won't happen, because she won't behave herself around Vesta. She's living with someone who needs her. I tell myself this mantra several times--well, it *was* several times a day. I'm getting it down to several times a week....

So I know very much what you're going through.

RG lived with us from 24 December 2010 until 18 June 2011.

Cynthia

Green Mantis
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:( cynthia, thank you for your kind support. We are devastated, but things have been really tough financially for us this year, and huge vet bills just couldn't be paid. :cry: The people that have him are definately going to give him all the vet care he needs, if something needs doing, it will be done. I really hate to say it, but I think there was much more going on, with poor grizz than just the extremely stressful home he 'was' in, before we got him. He was starting to eat enough that he should have started gaining some weight, instead, he kept getting thinner, his coat was getting drier and rougher too. :?: That we couldn't figure out. We just felt we had to do something for him, to try and help him get healthier. It wasn't an easy choice at all. :cry: But for his sake we had to try. I will keep you updated on how things go. Cynthia, I feel very bad that you had to part with RG, that must have been incredibly hard too. But in your parting with RG, you obviously made a man that REALLY needed her, very happy. I have to agree with you, I doubt we will ever be able to really retire either, due to being big sucks for rescues, in anything. I just wish we could have afforded the vet bills, for Grizzy, but it was not meant to be. I sure do agree with you that Leo's are awesome dogs, bernese too. Pet's are very special, they become like your kids, that have left home. I just wish things would get better around here. It's been a real lousy year. :( I definately hear you on the alpha dog thing. Our Pom is alpha dog here, but the rescue 'large' chihuahua is also an alpha dog, and sometimes we really have to watch those two. They are not big, but they sure think so. :roll: Little brats. :)

Green Mantis
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:cry: Well we heard from her, and he had cancer of some sort, and had to be put down. :cry: I guess at least he didn't suffer anymore from virtually starving to death. Poor boy.

We thought he was just very stressed out, and probably had worms, not so. :( Apparently he was only 76 pounds.
Last edited by Green Mantis on Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DoubleDogFarm
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Sorry :(

cynthia_h
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Oh, God. How tragic, for all of you. I'm so sorry.

Cynthia

thanrose
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With all of my animals, fosters and adopted and rehabbed, I try to remember specifically the good things. Even when I could have done things better in retrospect, it's important for my sanity (what little I have!) that I think things like, "But she had four years of exuberant recovery and boundless energy instead of certain death at the pound!" Or, "He had a great foundation with his first six weeks prior to adoption."

So Griz had a home with your loving family, had a place to play and a safe place to eat and sleep. You did good. He did good. It's not the length of time: it's the quality. And when he moved on, he had what he needed at that time, too.

You still have sweet memories to recall every time you cry. And, if you will, he's somewhere over that Rainbow Bridge having a grand time.

Green Mantis
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:cry: Thank you everyone. At least he got away from the horrible stress in his life for awhile anyway. Yes, he crossed the Rainbow Bridge. But things are much better for him there now. :( He was a really neat dog though. Leonbergers really are awesome dogs.



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