is my bonsai too big for my pot?

[martine connor]

my bonsai seems to be coming out of its pot, I don't know if this is normal but when I water it because the soil is higher than the rim of the pot the water sometimes trickles off out of the pot. do I need to re pot it or am I panicking for nothing?

[ynot]

my bonsai seems to be coming out of its pot, I don't know if this is normal but when I water it because the soil is higher than the rim of the pot the water sometimes trickles off out of the pot. do I need to re pot it or am I panicking for nothing?

Can you simply remove some of the soil? [So it fits in the pot.]
If not, It sounds as though it is root bound.
Post a picture please.
It would be most helpfull.
ynot

[martine connor]

what does root bound mean? am I in trouble? my bonsai has lnew leaves growing on it so I figured this meant that it is not too stressed. theres not a lot of soil, so I cant really remove any. its just the trees base looks as though its rising out of the pot. I'm not explaining this too well, I will try and get some pictures done.

[ynot]

am I in trouble? my bonsai has lnew leaves growing on it so I figured this meant that it is not too stressed. theres not a lot of soil, so I cant really remove any. its just the trees base looks as though its rising out of the pot. I'm not explaining this too well,

what does root bound mean?

It means the entire volume of the pot consists of only the rootmass from the tree and almost no soil.

If you were to pull the tree out of the pot [Can you even do that?] does the rootmass have the shape of the pot?
like this:

[img]https://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6239/rootboundtc4.jpg[/img]

I will try and get some pictures done.

Please do.

Also read the sticky about repotting and rootpruning it sounds like you will need it.

ynot

[martine connor]

Please can you send me your email address so I can send you the pictures I have taken. I will be greatful for any help you can give me.[/img]

[ynot]

Please can you send me your email address so I can send you the pictures I have taken.

I can, But I will not for these two reasons:

1.] It is allready listed in my profile onsite.

2.] The people here that do send me questions/pix via e-mails or I'm attempts [and I assure you there have been quite a few in my short time here.] all get essentially the same reply, That is this:

"Please post your question/pix onsite so that more people can offer insight and everyone can have the information [Both Q & A] available to learn from."

I will be greatful for any help you can give me.[/img]

I take it you are having trouble sorting out how to post a picture.

Go to this site: https://imageshack.us/ and register [It is free]. Then click the 'Browse' button {If you don't see one click 'Upload images'.}

A window should open that will let you search for and then open pictures on your CPU- {That window will autoclose when your done.}

Now click 'Host it' on the ImageShack page and you have uploaded a picture to image shack.

Next click 'My images' on the ImageShack taskbar and you will see bars in sets of three with lots of code. Simply copy and past [Into your post on this site] one of the bars that is titled 'forums' from either the 'Embeddable Code' list or the 'Thumbnail' list.

Make sure to preview your post on this site to insure all is as you want it.

IE: If your chosen code from ImageShack does not work, try a different version-You must experiment a bit until you figure out which ones work well.- This is why the preview is so important.

I am looking forward to the pictures.

Again, Please read the sticky about repotting and rootpruning {as well as the included links} and ask If you have further questions.

Good luck
ynot

[martine connor]

[url=https://imageshack.us][img]https://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4011/bt1js0.jpg[/img][/url]

[martine connor]

[url=https://imageshack.us][img]https://img93.imageshack.us/img93/4011/bt1js0.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://imageshack.us][img]https://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7726/bt3ds4.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://imageshack.us][img]https://img93.imageshack.us/img93/577/bt4cs9.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=https://imageshack.us][img]https://img93.imageshack.us/img93/9342/bt5zy3.jpg[/img][/url]

[ynot]

Martine,

It really needs to be photographed out of the pot before we can have any confirmation it is rootbound.

I am looking forward to the next pictures.

ynot

[mamfle]

I am no expert, in fact I am more of a novice then you but I do have some spare time on my hands to go snooping.

Did you get your Bonsai from B&Q also? my mother gave me one that came from there, and the soil that it has is wrong for the tree. I think that your mold problem could be from the submersing, it looks like the mold is proceeding up the trunk. I think it may need to dry out a bit.

maybe place a small fan to help dry it out at the trunk

[martine connor]

I have cleaned the mold off and it will be fine until I water it again, maybe it is something to do with where I am keeping the tree or the temperature of the room. other than the mold does my tree look normal? I didnt get it from B&Q, I had it bought me from a little shop in england, not sure which one. so I need to send some pictures of my tree out of the pot? what if the soil and roots don't come out together and it all falls apart?

[mamfle]

the roots showing are a style of bonsai, some people don't show the roots but others do. I don't think it is anything to worry about

[ynot]

. so I need to send some pictures of my tree out of the pot? what if the soil and roots don't come out together and it all falls apart?

Yes, Please.
Then you have an entirely different problem.

As I said before run a sharp knife around the inside edge of the pot [give it a couple of sideways taps on something solid-Use common sense here wrt how hard to do that, Please.] Then use something solid like a pen [or whatever will fit] to push through the drainage holes while you are attempting to remove the tree.
This combination should help get him out of the pot.

I sincerely doubt that alot of soil will fall off, I am betting you get a solid pot shaped mass of roots containing little soil. I could be entirely wrong of course but that is my current guess based on the info I have so far.
[Unless you have a bunch of root rot going on due to the {possibly} constant wetness. That is only if your watering was effective]

Mamfle, Your right wrt style, However this is not the case here [And it IS something to be concerned about]. The entire tree is being pushed up due to the roots running out of space in the pot. As opposed to the lower bit of the trunk becoming more exposed.

Is that a correct description Martine?

ynot

[martine connor]

I really don't know whats going on with it, maybe I'm over reacting, I'm hardly a bonsai expert, far from it infact. the lower bit of trunk is exposed but I'm unsure if the whole tree is being pushed up. when I take it out of the pot will I know what the problem is straight away? if you look at the pictures where the tree is exposed at the bottom if I gently push the tree it looks as though it would come out easily if I pulled it but not in a square just the bit conected to the base of the tree, this is what I am worried will happen. should I continue to water it by submerging for 10 minutes as you said?

[ynot]

OK, wrt pushing up-or not I was just going from your initial post in his thread Where you said:

my bonsai seems to be coming out of its pot,

if you look at the pictures where the tree is exposed at the bottom if I gently push the tree it looks as though it would come out easily if I pulled it but not in a square just the bit conected to the base of the tree, this is what I am worried will happen.

Well, You have to work it a bit, You can't just pluck it out of the pot by it's trunk. [Actually, Sometimes you can-But not in this case.] From what you describe it sounds s though there is {Possibly, I am still guessing} some root rot going on. When you do get it out take plenty of photos. The roots should be white and healthy looking. If they are black and slimy you have a major problem.

should I continue to water it by submerging for 10 minutes as you said?

Yes, When it needs it, Not before.

ynot

[martine connor]

I think its definately black and slimey when I poke my fingers through the holes in the bottom of the pot it regularly feeld damp and looks black. I don't think the people who potted it used wire or the drainer grid stuff. I will have a look over the weeknd and take some photos by monday/ thanks for all your help!

[ynot]

I think its definately black and slimey

This is not good news. I fear it is in fact [url=https://www.rbgsyd.nsw.gov.au/information_about_plants/pests_diseases/fact_sheets/phytophthora_root_rot/]root rot[/url]. Google for more info.
This is a serious condition and one that did not occur overnight. It stems from extended periods of being constantly wet.
I want to emphasize that this has nothing to do with the duration of the dunks that you gave it, But it does have everything to do with how often you dunked it.

when I poke my fingers through the holes in the bottom of the pot it regularly feeld damp and looks black.

If [As I suspect] when you get this tree out of the pot the entire root sysem [Or the majority of it] is a black slimy mess, It will call for drastic measures.
To save this tree you will need to prune away all of the infected black slimy roots and repot into entirely new soil.
It may not be as bad as all that though in this case it's best to be prepared for the worst.
{As I mentioned in your thread about 'mold'} Take a look at the 'Bonsai Soil, Repotting, & Root Pruning' sticky to learn a bit about bonsai soil.

Make sure to use a hose to wash away all of the old soil which is innoculated with the root rot pathogens {it is a fungi}, You don't want to reinfect your new soil.
In reality this is almost impossible and it is more important that you not provide the conditions condusive to the growth of the fungi, But give it a shot anyway. You will need to clean the pot as well. Don't forget to wash the tools you used when your finished.

I don't think the people who potted it used wire or the drainer grid stuff.

Then you will need some drainage screens also, Or a suitable substitute.

I will have a look over the weeknd and take some photos by monday/ thanks for all your help!

The sooner you fix this the better.

Please do some of the reading I suggested as you have some ER work ahead of you.
Your Welcome,
Good luck.
ynot

[martine connor]

hello again. I havent got you any pictures yet cause I havent seen my friend with the camera for a while but I managed to get it out of the pot! the roots werent slimey but they were dark brown and dry. it came out of the pot fine in one square block. can you still not tell what has happened without the pictures?

[Gnome]

Martine,

I believe that Ynot is having some computer issues so I will attempt to be of some assistance.

the roots werent slimey but they were dark brown and dry.

No root rot is obviously a good thing. Brown roots would indicate to me that they are older, lignified roots. Can any root tips be seen? Referring to Ynot's previous description, is it root-bound? I.E. more roots than soil.

When you say that they are dry do you mean the roots themselves are solid and intact or do you mean that the soil is still dry? I see from the other post regarding this tree that you have been having some difficulty watering this tree. A root-bound condition will inhibit water from reaching the center of the root-mass. Please take Ynot's advice and submerge it at least once to thoroughly wet the soil. Only do this when it is approaching dryness and make sure you don't repeat it too soon. A little water often is the wrong approach, you need a lot of water with less frequency.

In the photos you posted the plant looks reasonably healthy. Do things seem OK to you in general? Is the mold problem lessening? Begin to do some research on soil mixes or at least look for a local source for some pre-mix, you are going to need it.

Norm

[martine connor]

I doubt any more soil will fit in my pot. the roots were compact, I cant remember wether I could see any root ends. I quite liked the look of it, it seemed ok and leaves are still growing. the mould problem has got so much better, I think maybe I was watering it too much. so how should I water by submerging or not? I gave it a jug of water yesterday cause it looked dry. should I not water it little and often? I was told there is no need to suubmerge it. if I doo submerge it how long should I do it for?

[ynot]

I doubt any more soil will fit in my pot. the roots were compact, I cant remember wether I could see any root ends. I quite liked the look of it, it seemed ok and leaves are still growing. the mould problem has got so much better, I think maybe I was watering it too much. so how should I water by submerging or not? I gave it a jug of water yesterday cause it looked dry. should I not water it little and often? I was told there is no need to suubmerge it. if I doo submerge it how long should I do it for?

Thank you Gnome, I am in fact having some access issues.

Martine, Please review this thread you will find all of these questions are answered in it. [EDIT: As well as the other threads you started wrt this tree: Gnome has linked to one of them below.]

It sounds completely potbound to me. More soil will fit into the pot after you rootprune it. You will make space.

A picture is still worth at least a 1000 words.

ynot

[Gnome]

Martine,

I was told there is no need to suubmerge it.

This is not the normal way to water but a sort of emergency procedure to ensure that the soil is thoroughly wetted. I recommend this because you said the roots were dry and as I said above,

A root-bound condition will inhibit water from reaching the center of the root-mass.

I gave it a jug of water yesterday cause it looked dry.

If you watered a "jug" worth recently you may have negated the need for the submersion. You know the tree better than we do.

if I doo submerge it how long should I do it for?

Longer than described earlier but not excessively so. 10 minutes should be sufficient, but use your common sense.

should I not water it little and often?

No, by watering this way the surface stayed too wet, (thus causing your mold problem), and the interior too dry. The normal method is to water from above until water runs freely from the drainage holes, wait a while and repeat. Then, and this is important, wait until the soil is somewhat dry before you water again.


Note to other readers: Some of this post refers to information contained in this post regarding the same tree.
[url]https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3549&sid=a272a925edd143895585c9d4228c2d91[/url]

Norm