Are you a veteran?

[tedln]

Yesterday was Veterans Day. I always have mixed emotions on Veterans Day. I am a veteran. I am proud of my service in the military. I love my country and I am proud of my country. I will always believe I gained more from being in the military than my country gained from me serving in the military.

On Veterans Day, I always try to avoid being in any group or situation where veterans are asked to stand to be honored for their service. I simply believe being a veteran holds no special honor and should receive no special recognition beyond self pride. I've never asked for or received any monetary benefits as a veteran my service entitles me to. I believe you shouldn't receive anything you don't earn.

I do believe any person serving in the military and their families should be well rewarded and honored, but when their service ends, special recognition should end.

I'm curious about how other people feel.

Ted

[Charlie MV]

Navy veteran, destroyer man from 1971-74. Bought my first house on the GI bill. Once. Couldn't afford that kind of interest on the houses I've bought since.

I was spit on upon return from Vietnam. I came to agree with the reasons they had to protest but not the methods. We need to stop being the policemen for the world, for free.

I'm a pacifist now.

Probably another deleted post Cousin Ted. No warm fuzzies here for our military. I'm ambivalent about being an American these days.

[tomf]

Yes I am.

[thanrose]

Not a veteran, but I appreciate the sacrifices vets made. Charlie, I remember those days back in Viet Nam era, though I was a bit young. My ex was similarly treated when he left the Army in '72 and returned to college. I was in junior high. Had older cousins that all became teachers, go figure.

Veterans Day is kinda like Memorial Day to me. I don't see anything wrong with it, and maybe it's helpful to some vets to have these infrequent days when people actually express gratitude. If that means you can get a complimentary sandwich or cup of coffee, why not?

[DoubleDogFarm]

We need to stop being the policemen for the world, for free.

First I'd like to say, Thank You to all Vets.

I also agree with the quote above.
We need to stop being the policemen for the world. Period....

Eric

[Charlie MV]

Double Dog, I'll buy you and Bugger a beer if you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods.

Cousin Ted, I believe in a universal draft for all. Everybody should be a veteran whether it's military or Peace Corp.

We'd probably get along better with the rest of the world if every mothers child had a stake in the game.

[tedln]

Double Dog, I'll buy you and Bugger a beer if you ever find yourself in my neck of the woods.

Cousin Ted, I believe in a universal draft for all. Everybody should be a veteran whether it's military or Peace Corp.

We'd probably get along better with the rest of the world if every mothers child had a stake in the game.

I agree about the universal draft. I don't care if it is the military or some other form of service. We have too many young people growing up believing it is all about them and what they want. They should be required to perform some kind of service for other people while they are still young.

I said in my first post that I got more from the military than they got from me. I meant it. They took a basically worthless kid and forced him to learn self discipline. They gave me the opportunity to learn that you can overcome fear. They taught me that I had more value than I thought I had. They taught me to never give up. All of those lessons they taught me have helped me progress through life as an adult. I really don't think I would have been worth much as an adult if the military hadn't forced me to try.

Ted

[Charlie MV]

[quote="

I said in my first post that I got more from the military than they got from me. I meant it. They took a basically worthless kid and forced him to learn self discipline. They gave me the opportunity to learn that you can overcome fear. They taught me that I had more value than I thought I had. They taught me to never give up. All of those lessons they taught me have helped me progress through life as an adult. I really don't think I would have been worth much as an adult if the military hadn't forced me to try.

Ted

Agreed 100%. My story is exactly the same. I think the universal draft would make our country and our relationship with the world much better.

[cynthia_h]

Veterans (those who actually survive their service and return home to tell about it) receive ongoing benefits. Sometimes. When Congress funds these promised benefits.

Read up on the Walter Reed Hospital scandal re. mold in the units where Iraq/Afghanistan "heroes" (in the words of Prez 43) were being treated. Read up on how Prez 43's Congress did not (would not? I really don't know) provide enough $$ for the hospital to remove the mold until the conditions were published in an exposé by the Washington Post newspaper.

Ongoing health care for veterans. Good. In a mold-infested hospital? Very bad.

Raised in a military family, men on one side of the family military in this or another country back to the mid-19th century in an unbroken line, up to and including my brother. We'll see about my nephew; he's only 2 years old!

I make quilts for veterans. *And* I protested American involvement in Indochina/Viet Nam and other areas of southeast Asia. (I graduated from h.s. very young.)

But I never confused the hapless troops DRAFTED to serve in Viet Nam with the policy-makers in Congress who made sure their own children were safely out of the line of fire (e.g., Prez 43). Drafting, to my mind, devalues the military as a chosen way of life.

In any case, without veterans and those who sadly gave their all and did not return from the Somme, Iwo Jima, Midway, the Ardennes, Poland, France, Korea, Viet Nam, Laos, Cambodia, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan, or other places our policy-makers have sent them, many freedoms we experience would not exist.

Cynthia, trying to keep philosophy sep. from politics

[tomf]

I also feel we need to stop being the police but this is not the reason we do it; we do it to protect our ability to obtain resources around the world.

Like it or not there is also a need for us to be able to defend against nations that would attack others and simply take what they wanted. With out an army we our selfs would have been taken over. I would love to see people work together and get along but the reality is that it is a harsh world out there and there are a lot of people that are not nice.
I feel we need to honer veterans for the sacrifice we have given. It is such a small thing to do for the big thing veterans have done for all of us.

[gumbo2176]

I was on my way to being a Vet right after high school. I enlisted in the Navy prior to graduating and left the summer of 70 for Orlando, Fl. for boot camp. An unfortunate accident in the 7th week of training that caused a severe shoulder separation led to the discovery of a pre-existing condition and a penchant for such injuries. I'd had at least 8-10 prior to enlisting, disclosed this info to the recruiter and was accepted------quotas.

The Navy said "So long, go home, we don't want you." They wouldn't operate because they didn't want to accept any liability on something I had prior to enlisting. I got back to N.O. and after 2 weeks to mull things over I tried to join the Marines---no go. I even went to see the Army recruiter and they sent me home telling me "If the Army don't want you with Nam going on, nobody wants you". It was a major disappointment to me because my father and almost every uncle in my family served in WWII and/or Korea. I felt as though I was letting them down.


My hat's off to all Vets for their unselfish service to our country in times of both war and peace. I just wish we had more of the latter so that we stop losing so many brave young men and women.

[tedln]

Gumbo,

I finished high school. Started college and remembered how much I detested formal education. I knew the draft would eventually get me so I decided to get it over with by volunteering for the draft. At the initial physical exam, they told me the X-rays indicated spots on my lungs which meant I had tuberculosis. It made me mad because I knew I was in perfect physical condition. They sent me to a private radiology lab where X-rays reveled the Army was using bad X-ray film and my lungs were in perfect condition. Thinking about it years later, I thought it was funny that I had to fight to be drafted.

Ted

[tedln]

I got caught today. We went to church thinking the veterans day ceremonies were over. I knew I had a problem when the pastor came in wearing a patriotic tie and a flag pin on his lapel. Sure enough, midway through the service they asked the "veterans" to stand to be honored. I wasn't going to stand until my wife who doesn't agree with me on this; elbowed me in the ribs. That always means you better stand or you will regret it later. I stood.

I am always surprised and thankful to see so many ladies standing to be honored. Womens roles in the military were very limited when I was in the service.

Ted

[Charlie MV]

I think we should celibate Veteran's Day by sitting in a veteran's lap. I coming to Texas next Veteran's day cousin Ted.

[Kisal]

Charlie, sitting in someone's lap in Texas usually doesn't lead to "celibate."

Too funny!

[tomf]

[Charlie MV]

Don't ask me, I wont tell.

[DoubleDogFarm]

[tedln]

Cuz,

I haven't replied to your post because I am shocked! Totally shocked! I thought Arkansas was the state where guys attended family reunions looking for girls. uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh.

Cuz Ted.

[DoubleDogFarm]

I thought Arkansas was the state where guys attended family reunions looking for girls

That's wrong in so many ways!

[Charlie MV]

You guys think that's wrong? Let me tell you about South Carolina.

Arkansas thanks god for us in nearly all categories.

[tedln]

Hey cuz! which state was Jerry lee Lewis from. He married his fifteen year old cuz. Was it Louisiana? Sorry Gumbo. I wonder if his cuz wanted to sit in his lap to celebate?

cuz Ted

[Canadian Farmer Guy]

I'm never leaving Canada again.
You Yanks are crazy.

CFG

[DoubleDogFarm]

This is why I live on an Island. You can only get here by ferry.

No No, lets call it a boat.

It keeps out some of the riff-raff

Eric

[Charlie MV]

Yanks? Obviously CFG has no clue what SC, Arkansas. Texas, Alabama and Georgia are.

Cousin Ted, Louisiana is an entirely different planet. We all thank gawd for them.


Double Dog, is that the island where the crazy people burned Nicolas Cage in the wicker basket?

[DoubleDogFarm]

Double Dog, is that the island where the crazy people burned Nicolas Cage in the wicker basket?

Shhhhh!

[Canadian Farmer Guy]

As far as I know, "Yank" refers to any American
Is there a different meaning down south?

CFG

[tedln]

Well, I kinda prefer yank. I've been called cracker and gringo, but they are not as endearing as yank. I never took offense to anything I was called so long as I was called in time for lunch.

Ted

[Canadian Farmer Guy]

I never took offense to anything I was called so long as I was called in time for lunch.

Amen to that!

CFG

[thanrose]

As far as I know, "Yank" refers to any American
Is there a different meaning down south?

CFG

Aside from meaning that you are Canadian? hehe.

Yeah. When I was living in Boston and in Maine (southern coast), yankee generally referred to New Englanders with a pedigree going back to the Mayflower if we used the term at all. It also was an adjective to describe food or craft of longstanding tradition in that region.

Elsewhere, through much of the US, yankee will mean a thing or a person from a northern state in the US, one that was on the northern side in the Civil War. Very loosely applied, though. I was born below the Mason-Dixon line (Maryland's northern border pretty much) by a hair, and grew up below it, so I could sometimes claim southern heritage with someone who was poor in geography and history. Jersey girl, Atlantic City and south... Definitely yankee.

Now I live below the Deep South. I'm so far south that I'm north again... Not really, but I can't claim to be a Southerner with a capital S because I'm a yankee from Florida. Has nothing to do with my place of birth, but more the region I live in and the customs I have.

The fellas from South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas and wherever else we might consider Deep South will very definitely view Yankee as an epithet for northern USians, usually preceded by Damn. Of course, Texans are notoriously independent and may resist being thought of as Deep South. At least Gumbo knows his Louisiana wore gray in the Civil War.

You know how Canadians have little inside jokes about the Territories or Newfies or people from Ottawa? Or if you run into a really bad driver, you think, "Must be from Toronto!" That's what we do. I'm sure Charlie has some funny thoughts on the difference between South Carolina and North Carolina and Ted could tell you some Okie stories.

Come to think of it, depending on where in Canada you are from, you probably condemn poor drivers as being from Detroit.

When I lived in Maine, people there thought Boston was marginally the Deep South.

[Charlie MV]

South and North Carolina are different planets. NC is the second largest banking hub in the country, has top flight universities is home to 25 Fortune 500 companies and Charlotte alone has 350 Fortune 500 company locations within it's county.

I moved to SC 3 years ago from Charlotte [NC]. I have strong family roots here and spend the 80s here. SC has zero Fortune 500 company home offices and just a few with locations within the state. Residents here still discuss secession as well as the placement of the Confederate flag on the statehouse grounds. It is backward to the point of being nearly a third world country.

Take a look at commentary in the State Newspaper if you want to check behind what I say. We moved here to take care of an ailing parent. We lost nearly all insurance benefits as a result. I'd be happy to be a yank but I'm not. I just hope I can get out of this place before the rest of the country builds a fence around it.

[tedln]

We live near a little town in North Texas called Gainesville. There is a monument on the court house square where twenty two possible union sympathizers were hung during the civil war. One of the victims was originally found not guilty of being a sympathizer and was released. The jury later changed its mind and the Sheriff went to the guys farm and arrested him again and hung him just in case he really was a union sympathizer. The jury must have been entirely female cause they couldn't seem to make up their minds. (Please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me ladies)

Ted[

[tedln]

Sorry, I double posted

[thanrose]

Better safe than Union, I guess.

Thirty years of my life has been spent living on top of or next door to one of two acknowledged stops on the Underground Railroad. Of course, one was a rumrunner's tunnel used in colonial days, too. Within spitting distance of Paul Revere's Old North Church. "One if by land..."

Wars and the myriad stories from them really stay with us, in our memories, in our actions, and sometimes as a subtext to all else that goes on around us.

I can show you where Crispus Attucks fell in 1770, the first to die in the Boston Massacre. I can show you the faded hand painted billboard in a lazy Florida cowtown, with the names of all the neighborhood sons that died in VietNam scribed there until they ran out of room. When you realize the demographics of that neighborhood, see that it is reclaimed swampland with industrial wastes bisected by a railroad, and finally realize that a hugely disproportionate number of the poulation died on foreign soil you start to wonder, just why is that?

So why is anyone in any war? There is no glib answer, and you can't even start looking at a grassroots level for a macro answer. Why did so many young men from that tiny depressed and repressed area die? Still not one answer. Many reasons, and no guarantee that any are good. Unlike Crispus Attucks' death, there is no way to turn it into a matter of pride.

What we can do is remember our soldiers, for whatever cause, remember the sacrifices they made, and pay attention to the patterns that emerge. No one should lose as many sons as old Mrs Sullivan did in 1942. Of course, even at that time the Navy discouraged siblings serving together, but the Sullivans requested that they serve on the same ship. So many WWII losses, even on that ill-fated USS Juneau, but Mrs Sullivan's five fold loss moved a war-weary nation.

I'm not sure what the Armed Forces does when masses of unrelated people from a single area serve. That's probably more on the local churches, community politicians, and activists to step in and redirect. I do know that this small area's churches still mention all those young men on days like Veteran's Day, Memorial Day and others.

It's not much of an epitaph, it's not a legacy of particular pride, but it is important to remember.

Mods, if you need to delete this, I'm fine with that. I'm actually pretty apolitical.

[tedln]

I can't imagine anyone wanting to delete all or part of your post thanrose.

Excellent content and well stated.

I make a lot of statements and ask a lot of questions fully aware that many people have strong beliefs about the subjects. I really am interested in how people feel about things. I have my own feelings about the subjects, but I never think anyone who may disagree with me is wrong. My beliefs don't make me right, just interested.

Ted