The experiment.

[garden5]

Straw is a high nitrogen and actually imparts nitrogen as it bereaks down unlike a higher carbon item that takes more bacteria to break it down, therefore using more nitrogen (don't forget that bacteria are high nitrogen items at 5:1 C:N).

Sure fungi does most of the break down for wood but they are producing ammonium which is pretty high nitrogen itself and needs bacteria to break down to plant soluble forms of N for our row crops and such (woodland plants have adapted to use ammonium...)

HG

Thanks for the tip. I guess I got some bad info when I heard that straw was high-carbon.

Anyway, I'd better save my question for the permaculture forum as this thread's getting a little off-topic.

Any new updates on the experiment, Dix?

[The Helpful Gardener]

Good point, G5, and apologies to OP... I'm incorrigible...

Well, we can chalk this up to a discussion of the intricacies of the organic method, but we'd just be making excuses...

Have we any updates, Dix?

HG

[garden5]

My neighbor's MG tomatoes are twice the size of my organic ones and thicker, too. However, mine have just as many flowers as theirs do, so I guess you could say that the MG affects the stem and leave growth more so than the fruit growth.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Right G5, as Fukuoka-sensei used to tell folk when they asked after his half sized rice plants "I am not interested in growing leaves"... his yields were still every bit of his neighbors, and better tasting and better for you...

Hai, sensei...

HG

[Dixana]

It's chilly and has been raining FOREVER, yet that stinkin MG plant keeps growing like a weed. BUT the organic plant is not as yellow and wilty from the weather so HA Miracle Grow.
No pictures right now. The backyard kind of needs to be mowed and it's really wet so until it dries out some (meaning next week by looks at the forecast) I'm not getting soaked feet/pants. (Yep it is that bad shame on me for spending the two dry days on the back of the bike with my hubby )

[garden5]

It's chilly and has been raining FOREVER, yet that stinkin MG plant keeps growing like a weed. BUT the organic plant is not as yellow and wilty from the weather so HA Miracle Grow.
No pictures right now. The backyard kind of needs to be mowed and it's really wet so until it dries out some (meaning next week by looks at the forecast) I'm not getting soaked feet/pants. (Yep it is that bad shame on me for spending the two dry days on the back of the bike with my hubby )

It ain't over till the last fruit is plucked. Like HG said, the size of the plance isn't always indicative of how much fruit it will yield. I'll be interested in seeing which plant gives the first fruit, the highest over-all yield, and gives fruit the longest. My neighbor's MG plants seem to give out sooner than mine do (though I did plant mine small and late last year, so go figure ).

[Dixana]

I am currently rather disgusted with the miracle grow experiment. The MG plant has HUGE leaves and not one single blossom Every tom and pepper in the ground garden has blossoms and the organic experiment plant has more normal, healthy looking leaves. No blossoms on it either, but I wouldn't expect blossoms on a plant its size yet.
Presently, I'm wondering if MG contains too much N or something. I used the junk for veggies!
Since I used my red pepper plants for the experiment I'll be pretty irrate if I don't get any peppers off this plant! (reds are my favorite)

[The Helpful Gardener]

A sacrifice for science to be recognized by all, Dixana

My peppers are still small but budding and flowering; one of the chilies is only a foot tall but has a full size fruit (I will be plucking and such tomorrow so it will likely come off in favor of growth and more blossoms). I have taken the pledge, so no experiments outside of organics for me...

HG

[garden5]

I've seen that a lot with MG plats; it seems like the stuff mostly feeds the stems and leaves.

Well, HG, there are still a lot of all-organic experiments to be done . Like, does planting tomato seedlings deeply really make a difference in growth? That's one I'm trying this year.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Oh, I did that one already years back and I don't do it any other way now. You get a bigger, deeper root system which evens out the watering needs so you get less catfacing and cracking, you get a much sturdier plant (my Brandywines had stems like my wrists last year) and I think you get more fruit (wasn't very scientific about recording differences so that's anecdotal; the kiss of death word in science).

But I'm very interested to see if you agree...

HG

[Dixana]

My pepper plants are not very big either (aside from the MG plant ). I think for me it's heat related, they like it hot and we had two solid weeks of cloudy, wet, nasty weather. It's only been getting warm and sunny the last week or so, hopefully they'll catch up now.

[garden5]

We had a cool, wet summer last year and nobody's peppers did well. Once you get some steady heat, they'll really perk up.

I have to check and see which ones were planted deep, HG, then I'll get back to ya on the tomato experiment. .

[Dixana]

STILL no blossoms on that stinkin MG plant! I have japs and peppers almost ready to pick on plants planted in the garden AFTER these plants! There are severtal large buds on the organic despite the fact it is 1/4 the size of the MG plant. If nothing else this experiment has reinforced to me what a giant waste of money miracle grow really is.
Top soil($1.13 a bag) + compost(free with very little effort and a lot less trash to take out) = better plants, better soil, more food vs Miracle Grow ($8+ a bag) lots more foliage, less food, contaminates the soil with chemicals......
Yep. Not impressed. If anything, I'm annoyed.

[garden5]

Big plants don't always mean big yields. Have you been giving ACT to the organic plant?

It just goes to show, the more we try to substitute our own systems for those of nature, the results decline.

[Dixana]

Well first things first, I have to confess that I haven't been in the garden in almost a week We've had a lot going on.
But I was out there tonight and BOTH plants have no foliage from midplant down.
I have no idea what happened. The organic plant seems fine aside from having no leaves, the MG plant has some yellowing. We've had some pretty hot/humid weather and some INSANE storms (60 mph winds, flooding, etc) but......no bottom leaves?
I should also note the blossoms have disappeared from my organic with no signs of peppers and there IS a pepper about the size of a golf ball.
Weird weird weird.....

[The Helpful Gardener]

Sounds like insectoids...

HG

[garden5]

Is the organic plant the one with the pepper? Does the MG one have any peppers on it?

About the tomato plant experiment: The 2 plant that were buried a little deeper are actually smaller than the other 4 . However, 1 has a large cluster of fruit on it and the other has the single largest fruit in the whole garden, so that may have something to so with it. Also, I think I may have accidentally knocked off a growing tip or two while I was pruning, so that may have contributed to it.

How deep did you bury your "deep" ones? Did you bury them to the top cluster or just 2 or 3 inches above the root ball? I planted them about 3 in. above the root-ball.

[Decado]

I planted mine a foot deep and the plants are 7 feet tall now with lots of fruit.

[garden5]

If I planted mine that deep, I'd have the tops of the plants 4 in. underground .

[Dixana]

I have decided to scrap this experiment for the year it was a complete bust. Between the freak downpouring rains followed by massive humidity and heat, then the stupid earwigs I don't think either plant is going to produce for squat. They both have two peppers but given their size I'm doubtful they will even get very large.
The only container plant I have that is doing ok is my one surviving wild boar berkely tie dye and I think that is only because I have babied the heck out of it.
I will redo this experiment next year. Though next year there will be another addition. Organic seed started in worm castings MG seed started in MG seed starter.

[Sage Hermit]

yeah I will do the same experiment with you at the same time.

[garden5]

I'll be looking forward to seeing the results. . (my money's still on the organic plant ).

[gixxerific]

Sorry to hear that the experiment is a bust, but who knew this would be close to if not the hottest year on record.

Try again next year, I know my potted plants have gone to hell and back. I just can't keep up with them as hot as it has been.

Good luck with everything else. I believe there is some comfort coming in a cold (did I say cold, Bawhahahahahah!!!! I mean tiny bit cooler) front on it's way.