The UnOfficial Seed Starting Thread

[Ozark Lady]

Gixxx, they are too young to read...
Stop reading the forum to them, and they will never know!!
(grinning)

[Halfway]

Peppers have sprouted and are now under the grow lights, woot, woot!!!

The heating pad (cheapo) seems to be the key as the other tray has had no germination as of yet.

Staring at the 6 foot snow drifts in the ever shrinking driveway is not quite as bad now.

[rainbowgardener]

Ozark Lady - I loved your response about the seedlings being too young to read! LOL indeed!


Sounds like your last frost date is the same as mine, your elevation making up for me being farther north, but in the protected Ohio River Valley.

I'm much more experimental about putting those tomatoes and peppers out as soon as there is no more frost, without worrying about whether the soil has warmed much yet. I put them out with hot caps over them and no mulch, so the soil can continue to warm. And I am gardening in raised beds, which warm up quicker than the regular ground.

I have killed some plants that way, so I do always keep some in reserve. But honestly where I usually kill plants is in the hardening off process, not once they are in the ground. The hardening off is tricky, when I have up to 20 trays of plants coming in and out on a daily basis depending on the weather-- life is exciting at that point!

So having the experience of killing off most of the seedlings I was trying to harden off, I do hear you about how traumatic that is!

[Ozark Lady]

I should write a book...101 ways to kill your seedlings!

I did not have mold or damping off. Odd huh?

I killed them with underwatering, lack of light, lack of feeding them, and drowned some in rain.. I did even manage to kill some with hardening off.

Then there was squirrels knocking them off the table, chickens digging them up... something sitting on them, and smashing them down... I had alot of "help" in killing them. Did I mention a sudden hail storm and they were outside... it was a nice day, no rain in sight... I went to town and left them outside...

Finally in desperation, I made the tunnels, and used them to grow, and harden them off, and for acclimating them... so the slugs went after them.

I need to also add. On the Arkansas agriculture site, they have many reports of crop loss for 2009 due to the odd weather...
It wasn't all my fault.. just 75% of it...

On another forum, someone's cat kept killing their seedlings, I don't own a cat, but my sons do and they visit here alot... maybe even cats killed some.

What is my point? I got educated! Really, as long as, I started them, they grew, I planted them and went my merry way... I could not empathize with folks having issues... So I had all my issues in one year...
I can now identify with folks stressing over killing seedlings.

It didn't stop me... as I look at over 300 seed packets... nope it didn't deter me... Just made me cautious.

[bcallaha]

There has been mention of heating pads for starting seeds. I assume these are the speciality heating pads just for that purpose. We have a heating pad that my wife used years ago, but no longer uses. Would this type of heating pad work?



Brad

[Tigerlilylynn]

Yup loads of people here are using drug store heating pads.

[Ozark Lady]

Another idea... also... not instead of...

My refrigerator is up against the wall, it has cabinets around it.
Now we all know refrigerators make heat when they run and you must give it some room to get rid of the heat...

My heat comes up the back and out the top, over the frig and below the cabinets... I use that space to start seedlings, I simply fill a container, wrap it in Saran Wrap, or use a dome.. I do have to check it daily, and move the seedlings to more light immediately.

It works for me! And that heat is not being used... well not really. I normally germinate seeds in 3-5 days there. And I just stack the containers one on top of the other. You can't stack on top of Saran Wrap, unless you really get it tight, but the domes will stack...

[Halfway]

There has been mention of heating pads for starting seeds. I assume these are the speciality heating pads just for that purpose. We have a heating pad that my wife used years ago, but no longer uses. Would this type of heating pad work?



Brad

I used a cheapo heating pad we have had for twenty years. Regular old heating pad probably from walgreens.

[applestar]

Gixx mentioned somewhere that some heating pads are equipped with automatic shut-off, which will not work for seed growing; otherwise, they are working well for a lot of people.

[gixxerific]

Gixx mentioned somewhere that some heating pads are equipped with automatic shut-off, which will not work for seed growing; otherwise, they are working well for a lot of people.

True, that was mine, though maybe not yours. Especially if it is an older one it may not have the Auto-shutoff. I went and bought a specialty heating pad though the "sore back pad" was working I just had to restart it every 2 hours. Which in the long run wasn't doing what it should. Another thing to think about about is you don't know the temp they put out unless you get an inline thermometer it may get too hot (the sore back kind that is). But I have seen a few people using them. It's better than nothing, a lot of people use the fridge method as well.

So many choices and so many decisions.

[brownsfan62]

I have a few dozen onions two weeks into sprouting, and they are looking awesome under the lights! Started eggplants and broccoli today--peppers get underway next week.

One of these years, I'll be able to see the garden again, but until then, I'm enjoying my little garden patch on the kitchen table!

[img]https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4365422851_8d505548df_m.jpg[/img]

[applestar]

FYI re: onion starts: https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109760#109760

That's a nice plant stand, and your onions look good. They *may* need a bit of thinning? Not sure as I'm growing mine individually in TP tubes and last year, tried the Elliot Coleman's 4 seeds/pot method in egg cartons (it worked but the roots were cramped, thus the TP tubes this year)

Don't forget to adjust the height of individual containers. See my post here:
https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=112445#112445

[Halfway]

I have a few dozen onions two weeks into sprouting, and they are looking awesome under the lights! Started eggplants and broccoli today--peppers get underway next week.

One of these years, I'll be able to see the garden again, but until then, I'm enjoying my little garden patch on the kitchen table!

[img]https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2730/4365422851_8d505548df_m.jpg[/img]

Sorry this is off topic, but do trade ES Brown? If not disregard.

[garden5]

Why don't you throw some lettuce seedlings in? They need a good head start.

I can't believe I posted that ! I meant to plant celery. It was a long day .

[gixxerific]

So what do you think should I wait are they ready to transplant? I just don't know what they should look like at the right moment YET. Those 2 leaves are the seed leave? do I need to wait for more leaves?
[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/DSC03326.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/DSC03327.jpg[/img]

[Fineas_Ranch]

Here are a few pictures of some small Red Rubin Basil
[img]https://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs211.snc3/21847_512857124934_188300216_30491719_4040368_n.jpg[/img]
[img]https://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs211.snc3/21847_512857129924_188300216_30491720_183166_n.jpg[/img]

This is a tomato, I think. It could be a pepper. I worry that I started these kids a little early, but we'll see.
[img]https://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs211.snc3/21847_512857134914_188300216_30491721_1727454_n.jpg[/img]


Cosmo
[img]https://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs211.snc3/21847_512857139904_188300216_30491722_1629216_n.jpg[/img]


Lavender?
[img]https://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs231.snc3/21847_512857154874_188300216_30491724_279308_n.jpg[/img]

[wolfie]

Gix, they are just coming out, now you move them to the grow lights. keep em there and let em grow a bit til the roots get to the mesh from the pot. What I do, when I transplant, is I take a really sharp like exacto knife and cut the mesh, just about when the roots are getting to the sides. then I put them into those 6 tray things or a bigger pot of its own, just depends what I have. but I would definitely wait awhile

[gixxerific]

Thanks wolfie that kinda what I was thinking but not 100% on it. I have been putting them in the sun the past couple day's I think I will put them under lights tomorrow.

I noticed the netting on the pellets I have are perforated on one side for easy removal, I would never leave them on. I dug peat pots from last year out from the bottom of my compost pile still in their shining new glory and that was this year when I found them.

[gixxerific]

I have been busy most of the day on and off planting. Various things. I'm hoping for the best. Some of this will be supplemental to the direct panting I will do. I now have 5 buckets with potatoes in them. 1 bucket with onions. I planted turnips, basil, some flowering mixes, cilantro, celery, broccoli, lavender that might be it. Just been going through my seeds and planting away. I might be early but this is all in a cold basement so I figured they will be slow to start. Whatever it was something to do. Let's hope for the best.

Live and learn.

[applestar]

Sounds good. Did you notice that other thread in which Old Thymer uses washing machine pans as drips trays for (4) 5gal buckets?

Out of the seeds you started, I think basil *could* give you problems if basement is too cold. Basil doesn't like it cold so keep that in mind and maybe grow it with the June contender upstairs after it sprouts (I'm assuming you're giving it bottom heat to germinate).

I just finished up-potting my winter salad mix that were started 2/5. Some lettuce with true leaves, the rest with just the seed leaves: radishes (I know -- it was a touch and go -- root tips growing 1/2 out of the bottom of the cardboard box flat), Mache, rainbow chard, and Bull's blood beets. I meticulously separated the chard and beet seedlings that grew out in multiples REALLY needing to get my hands in dirt!

They're back in the cold garage (45ºF daytime under the lights). I also have all the germinated cabbages, Brussels, cauliflower, and other lettuces out there. Another cardboard flat of mixed salad -- Cilantro, Flat Parsley, Chervil Cutting Celery, Chiogga Beet, Tonda Di Parigi Carrot, and Mesclun Mix is juuuust starting to germinate.

[tn_veggie_gardner]

I have a few favorite seed starting methods. Believe it or not, the peat pellets (in the mini, dome-covered greenhouses) work great for me for seed starting. For tomatoes, I do not use a heating pad, but for peppers, I will. I always make sure, with the peat pellets, that once the seed has sprouted & straightened up pretty well for a few days, that I pot it up to a 16 oz cup. The peat pellets are excellent only for seed starting, IMO. Once the seedling starts to grow a bit, they must be potted up & the netting 1110000% has to be removed (don't make me find the horror story pics of this not happening...lol). This method has always given me a 90% or better germination rate!

I also like to start some herbs and other various non maters/pepeprs in peat pots or squares, but they must be kept extremely moist, as those things soak up more water than a sponge! =) Both this method & the peat pellet method, I leave the items in complete darkness until seeds germinate.

One new thing I'm trying this year is one of the "Germination Stations." I have mixed opinions on it so far, probably because I made the mistake of filling the little holes with Jiffy seed starting mix, which is about impossible to get to soak up water. I think, with the proper seed starting mix, these can be great, as they come with a heating pad that is kept underneath the greenhouse.

Anyways, figured I'd put in my two cents about this topic. =)

- Steve

[gixxerific]

Applestar: I Don't really need drip tray, it is my unfinished basement, there is soil and wetness everywhere around my planting station, that's how I like it.

I don't have the basil on the heating mat yet, I might switch out the toms with them tomorrow thanks for heads up. I loaded up 4 flats with soil and seed and I only have one heat mat. Toms come first.

Not sure if you knew this but Chard seed are like 4-5 seeds in one that's why there is always extras. Didn't know that till recently I wondered why all my plants last year were doubles or more.

Sounds like you got it going on as well, that's good now I won't be alone when I have 500 things need to be potted up all at once. As you know good luck to you. Oh yeah I finally bought a thermometer it usually about 65-70 under the lights.

Veggiegardener:I heard about the Germination station I believe I called Lowes about heat pads they said they had something like you are talking about. I bought the heat pad insted and when I went to Lowe's I couldn't find it but I didn't look super hard.

Ozark Lady was saying that Jiffy seed mix was imposible to hydrate as well I suggest mixing it with something else like maybe manure or something that will hold water, not sure if you already knew that or not.

Good luck Steve (by the way from now on you are "TVG" tn_veggie_gardener is just to long to type )

[Ozark Lady]

I agree, the Jiffy seed starter is almost impossible to get to take water...
It might be impossible... 11 hours with water, and still alot of dry peat...

That does it... tomorrow I get some basic potting soil, and mix it together.
I bet I won't buy Jiffy again!
The other soil will hold water and the peat will lighten it up... there is a way out of this... I hope.

No seeds started today.. but I tried..

[applestar]

That's a bummer, Ozark Lady.
Hope you get lots of seeds started today. If at first you don't succeeed, right?

[garden5]

Here is a seed starting tip that I don't think I have seen mentioned. For tomatoes and peppers (you could try with some other varieties, I've only done it with toms and peps), soak the seeds in lukewarm water overnight (no longer) before you plant them. If any are floating then next morning, discard them, they are no good.

I did this with my tomatoes and had the majority of them germinate in about three days.

A word of caution: Do not let them dry out after soaking until they germinate. If a seed drys out once it has absorbed moisture, it will die. Now, with that being said, don't keep them in a muck puddle; just keep the soil they are in moist, like you ordinarily would. Just be sure not to miss a day or two and let it dry out.

[wolfie]

I bought that jiffy seed starter thing too but haven't tried to use it yet. gotta go to lowes to get my shop lights so will pick up some potting soil and mix the 2... gonna do alot of seed starting today WHOOOO HOOOO

oh ya, couldn't find a heating pad that didn't auto shut off so bought an electric blanket, now I can put ALL my flats on it at once lol

[gixxerific]

Wolfie a couple of things, I bought the GE 6500K (daylight) bulbs. At my store they are not with the light fixtures they are over by the garden furniture in a long row of lights where the compact florescent and MH stuff is yours could be different. These may be the perfect to some peoples standards but they work for ME.

PLEASE be careful with that heating blanket, DO NOT get any water on it, I would have to assume it is not water resistant much at all. I could be wrong, I just don't want to see you post your house burned down. Look at me giving electrical advice (I do know my stuff there though) but I think I might have burnt up my rigged up trickle charger that I was using to power some PC fans due to a dead short cause I wasn't paying attention. But still BE CAREFUL PLEASE.

Off to Lowe's myself now maybe I'll see you there.

One more thing I have noticed I got some potting soil at lowes that had "Moisture control" in it (not so organic but it was the only one that wasn't frozen solid to the others at the time). I didn't like that stuff it seemed to never dry out like out should to some point at least. So look at them good. I have been using the Black Kow composted manure to solve moisture issues myself.

Again shop around and don't follow me to the "T" use your best judgment.

[applestar]

If you're mixing in the heavy potting soil, it helps to cut it with about 1/4~1/3 perlite by volume. Be careful with the dry perlite dust not to breath it in.

I have to add: I don't like perlite and prefer to use sand, but I confess I'm currently *reduced* to using perlite because my sand is all buried and frozen under a foot of snow!

[wolfie]

I was just going to get regular potting soil to mix with the jiffy seed starting, about half to half ratio, will that work?

as for the heating blanket.. no water near it, its in my living room on my coffee table at the moment!

[Ozark Lady]

I have to go to a political thing today, where all the politicians have opportunity to tell us why we should vote for them.

So, I will pass through 5 towns to get there. And lots of box stores, and Garden City. Garden City was closed last Sunday, season isn't kicked off here yet. But they should be open today...

That is like a kid turned loose in a candy store! You know, interestingly, last year, the Garden specific site was cheaper than the box stores, across the board, supplies and plants.

All those drawers of seeds, with the little scoops, the rooms kept cool for strawberries, the green houses... oh man... my reward for listening to speeches!

I am reviewing my seeds and starting supplies, I know that I need better soil to mix some seed starter. Can anyone recommend a good plant food, so that I am not bringing manure inside to make manure tea? I am organic only. I have never used commercial plant food or fertilizers, so I am totally ignorant here... Oh I do know what the npk is... and basically, that I want a balanced one, since I will be growing a variety of plants... Do I need more than one? Like for plants that like less nitrogen and more potash? Help!
I have cotton seed meal, bone meal, wood ashes... what else do I need? I am only talking about seedlings to transplant, once they are in garden then the manure, etc can take over.

[gixxerific]

I was just going to get regular potting soil to mix with the jiffy seed starting, about half to half ratio, will that work?

as for the heating blanket.. no water near it, its in my living room on my coffee table at the moment!

Cool on the heating blanket, as far as the potting mix, mix it up a bit at a time. You should be able to tell when it is good. Grab a handful if ti feel like soil somewhat it is getting good. I don't know how else to explain it. But I go my feel myself. Half and half might be good maybe less maybe more without having here in front of me. Experiment with it you will get it right.

[gixxerific]

My tom's are JUST now getting their true leaves. You can't see them in the pic but here they are.
[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/Gardening/DSC03353.jpg[/img][img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/Gardening/DSC03354.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj185/gixxerific/Gardening/DSC03356.jpg[/img]

[wolfie]

well my cucumbers are the only ones that have fully come thru so far. I know for sure now that I planted the seeds all way too deep, I think I lost the peppers but the squash may be able to still come thru.

Here is a pic of my cucumbers moved under the lights that I just set up, whoo hoo me!

[img]https://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz139/packersmom/cucumberbabies.jpg[/img]

[wolfie]

Started a new flat today:

12 broccoli
12 cauliflower
18 jalapeno
6 banana peppers
12 bell peppers
12 early girl tomatos (had to buy these seeds at walmart, my seeds from gurneys haven't come in yet so now toms planted yet!)

these were planted at the correct depth, are immediately set on the heating blanket, and I am keeping the house at 60 instead of 45... praying I have better luck with these!

[Ozark Lady]

I have seeds in the germinators, (plastic shoeboxes).

I had to mix the Jiffy with another potting soil, after 2 days, in the shoe box, and with about 2" of water in the bottom, after it ran through... there were lots of dry spots remaining...

I mixed it 50/50. And the other soil will get wet readily.

I started:
Broccoli, Cauliflower, Dill, Pak Choi, Celery, Cabbage and Brussel Sprouts.

My information says the celery is slow to germinate... has anyone raised celery?

[rainbowgardener]

OzarkL I've never tried the PakChoi and don't do celery any more. The celery is difficult. As you say, quite slow to germinate and then slow growing and finicky. All the rest should be easy.

Wolfie - I really don't bury seeds at all. I put them on the surface and then gently press them down, just to be sure they are fully in contact with the soil. For tiny seeds, petunias, etc, that's it. For larger seeds (all the tomatoes, peppers, etc) and things that need dark, I just drop a light layer of the potting soil on top of them and maybe very gently firm it down a little bit.

[tk421storm]

So when should I start feeding my starts? Should I do some right away, or wait until they fully germinate?

I've got a solution of organic fish stuff (kelp et al - I'm new at this) that I can use, but just want to know the best time.

[rainbowgardener]

Wait to feed them at least until they have the first true leaves (the first pair of leaves you see will be the cotyledons or seed leaves and will look different from the true leaves). The seed provides food for the baby seedling and you don't want to force growth while it's just trying to develop a root system.

When you do start feeding them, be very gentle with it. 1/2 strength or less.

[tn_veggie_gardner]

Lookin great, everyone! =) I found out the hard way about the Jiffy seed starting mix, for sure, this year. It's easier to get water into it if you take like a small, but lengthy nail/screw & puncture the outer rim of it, which allows water to flow into it. This is only necessary if you've already made the mistake of using it for seed starting, like me. I've already moved my tomato seedlings out of the germination station & will be moving 25 or so pepper seedlings out if it today & tomorrow. So, I think that will be everything. Anyways, on another note (somewhat), the Jiffy mix does have its uses. It contains vermiculite, peat & lime, which are great additions to a permanent potting mix (along with perlite, bark, etc.). So, I am actually still using it, but mixing it into my semi-final potting mix. =)

gix: That's fine...TVG will do. I know it's a long name.

[Ozark Lady]

Okay, got labels ready for peppers and tomatoes today.

I fill the planting cups half full, and make sure that it wets well for me, prior to planting. This is because, I am notorious for underwatering plants.. I just don't water them enough... I don't cover seedlings at all, I do cover the shoe box so light is excluded. And I place it on top of my refrigerator.

When the seedlings pop up, I will sprinkle a better grade of potting soil around them, to strengthen them, and anchor them better, gradually, I will keep doing this as the plant grows, prevents legginess, and gives them better roots, I think.

Due to needing to repot African Violets, Rex Begonias, and some cactus types, I also bought African Violet potting soil, and a cactus mix.
Once, I get these transplanted, I will mix those in with my other mix. Especially the African Violet mix, it will really help me keep my soil moist.

I tried to find potting mix without fertilizers, that is easier said than done.
I read the labels on some of them... they are high in nitrogen and low on phosphorous and potassium. So, that could explain some legginess folks are experiencing... the big nitrogen bang... makes the plant jump right up there. I like a better balance, or even a little leaning towards more phosphorous and potassium to promote green growth particularly in plants that I am growing for fruit and leaves.

My answer was: I got one with fertilizers, mixed it with the Jiffy (no fertilizers) amended it with a light dusting of bone meal and wood ashes, to get it closer to a balance. I know not needed right now, but these that I added are slow release, so I am giving them a head start.

And I will get the others repotted prior to needing to add soil, and amend this mix with the others, and see what it feels like.