Thumper38
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Location: Iowa 5B

Apple Trees & Cross Pollination

Hello.

So we are about to move into a new to us house and my wife and I are going through ideas for the yard. We pretty much have the vegie and flower gardens figured out. But arent sure about trees just yet.

There is a tree in the front yard that I havent identified yet. But am thinking of cutting it down and replacing it with an apple tree. No I havent settled on exactly what kind yet so If you kind folks have any recomendations Ill gladly hear them.

We are in zone 5b.

The main question I need to ask I guess. As I understand it apple needs cross pollination. Our front yard isnt big enough for two trees and I don't want to take up all my gardening space with multiple trees. And the neighborhood trees appear to be mostly oak ash and poplar. Planting one apple in the front and one in the back should allow them to take care of eachother wouldnt they? Also would a cherry tree be able to take care of the apple and vice versa? (my wife really wants a cherry tree) if not what other trees will be able to pollinate an apple?

Oh also. Before anyone asks. Yes we did collect soil samples to be tested. We just haven't heard back about the content just yet.

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applestar
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I'm not an expert, but I think viability of front and back yard locations idea will depend on actual distance involved. Also, some things that may affect are prevailing wind direction and maybe visible to each other. Also population of pollinating insects in your area.

I tend to think within "stones throw" is probably a good range. The pollinators need to be able and want to visit both trees during same visit to your garden.

Crabapple can be used to pollinate apples, but there are suitability factors -- namely that they need to be blooming at the same time, but also some are more receptive to one or the other -- this is true among apples too (there are charts).

My solution to small property and wanting fruit trees was to train them in espalier along a fence (2 sweet cherry trees, 2 apple trees, 2 pear trees and a persimmon), a semi-dwarf apple on the other side of the house (Less chances of this tree being pollinated by the pollen from the other apple trees) that started fruiting after a volunteer crabapple grew along the same side of the house further back in the property... added a columnar apple near the tree later. I also have a couple of dwarf peach trees....

Cherry is completely different species and cannot help with apple pollination. What kind of cherry? There are some sweet cherry that can self-pollinate but most I believe need a second variety, and pie cherries tend not to need a 2nd variety, although they are said to be more productive with two or more even same variety (dom't know for sure since I'm still trying to decide what to get, but am thinking Northstar -- a natural dwarf).

I ALWAYS recommend you do your research and get varieties that are resistant to predominant diseases in your area. I have to make sure apples are strongly resistant to fireblight and cedar-apple rust.

Thumper38
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Thanks. Ill do some more reading on my breaks at work today.

The entirety of this property is about a third acre and the front is oriented to the west north west.

Id heard about using crab apple blossoms in a bucket of water up in the branches. But if I can avoid doing that Id like to.

I'm not sure if this will help you folks educate me any. But this is the back yard. Note the little compass to help with orientation.
Image

And this is the front yard. The shide yards are not large enough to house any trees.
Image

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applestar
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I found a photo of my Espalier Fence Row from last year -- there are probably more in that thread. Mine are not a good examples because I'm not taking care of them properly at this point, and they are getting overgrown, but the lesson here is that you don't have to think of your fruit trees as having to grow into trees.

(Ignore the weird characters/letters -- don't know where they came from....)
Subject: Applestar's 2016 Garden
applestar wrote:Espalier Fence Row • Haybale Row • Sunflower House
Image
I wouldn't bother getting branches either, but I think what you *could* do is to grow the crabapple solely for the blossoms. So I think you could be even more severe with the crabapple -- allow it to bloom then prune down to manageable size each year.

Thumper38
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I suppose I need to read thst thread of yours. Hopefully I can dig into it during my lunch break. Cause I guess I don't understand how they will be productive if kept plant sized.

But anyway. I would like one in the front yard for more than just the apples. Shading the house from the afternoon sun alone is reason to have it there.

I was doing some reading and saw that some varieties of crab apple tree don't exceed 8 feet in height. If that is true then I could easily have them both in the front yard. Or like you said prune it back often.

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applestar
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You might be interested in this thread, too. :D I guess what "productive" means to a gardener is relative. What kind of harvest do you envision? What would you do with them?

Subject: Fruit Harvest from season to season
applestar wrote:Yesterday's harvest was mostly about fruits :-()

Image
- Red Prelude raspberries -- I've been harvesting most of the biggest trusses every day, but some of the younger plants are starting to ripen later developing fruits so more will trickle in. Yellow Ann canes are not growing as vigorously, so only a few each day, and a lone surviving peach colored Kiwi plant has popped up on the front yard side of the fence ...fortunately inside the fenced Front Yard Fence Row garden bed. Hoping to get that one to start a new patch.

(I have yet to save any for later -- DDs eat them all by the end of the day -- so I need my raspberry patches to grow bigger and produce more.)

- More Petit Negra container fig -- between DD2 and DH, I hardly ever get to eat any but I think I counted around 40 fruits on the tree, and Chicago Hardy in-ground fig has only ripened one fruit so far out of 2-3 dozen.

- Prok persimmon are starting to ripen -- this is the third fruit to come in and DD2 has "discovered" she really likes it :()

- I lost one Seckle pear to some kind of burrowing worm (not found inside). Bummed since there were only 3 of these -- first time to harvest. Other two fruit as well as the rather undersized Magness pear came off when lift tested.

- I have been finding apples on the ground -- just one or two every day and usually something wrong with them, twice with chew marks. Also have been intentionally harvesting damaged not-quite-ripe fruits to salvage before the spoilage set in. But lift-tested all the fruits yesterday and all of these came off the branches easily. (Have you noticed that with MOST fruits, that's the best test for ripeness?)

Semi dwarf Enterprise is more prone to brown rot problems and other issues like high Cedar-Apple Rust pressure from neighbor's trees though it is super resistant and can handle it without help from me... but maybe reasons for typically smaller fruits than the espaliered Arkansas Black. Both get Sooty Blotch and Fly Speck fungus (which are cosmetic and only on the skin surface) so they need to be scrubbed. Sooty comes off easily from both fruits but Speck is harder to get off the matte AB fruits compared to the glossy Enterprise.

(DD1 has been tasked with salvaging the damaged apples by cutting up and removing inedible parts, then salt water soaking, and putting away the edible pieces in the fridge for immediate consumption. She tells me she fills a quart bag every day but by next day, most of the pieces are gone from the two DD's snacking on them.

It makes me feel good to know my kids have been eating fruits from our garden every day from the steady, uninterrupted seasonal fruit harvest since probably strawberries in late May :-()

Thumper38
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Good information thank you.

I'm looking for what everyone else is looking for. Maximum benifit with the least labor.

With everything else going on in my life, free hours are limited. I believe I have the time to properly maintain a few trees and some bushes and a vegetable garden. But the method you describe seems like it will be more labor intensive with smaller yields than simply maintaining a tree or two. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

What I want to do with the apples once they start producing? I make an awesome apple brandy and an even more amazing apple rum (yes I do it legally) And currently go through about a bushel a year making it. One tree aught to provide that much once its mature.

JONA
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Location: Sussex. England

Hi Thumper,
Just a reassuring word.
First...please go to a good nursery and buy quality trees. By that I mean trees with at least 8 side feathers ( that's little side branches ) already growing. The tree should have these side shoots placed evenly all round it even on a maiden ( one year old) tree.
Buying this sort of tree is more than half way to having a successful tree.

From your pictures there is plenty of room for you to have a couple of centre leader trees on 106 or 9 rootstock.
The 106 would be the more vigorous but could still be kept low enough for you to pick all its fruit from ground level and would only require staking for the first few years of its life. Whereas the 9 will need staking for life as it's root system is very shallow and narrow.
A well grown centre leader tree can be kept to below 12 ft in height with a 10 ft or less spread.
It will yield ...depending on variety....upwards of 3 or 4 bushels at least by year 6 or so, and providing you plant a good tree, it should be giving a light crop by year three.
Good luck.

Thumper38
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Location: Iowa 5B

Really? That many?

I admit I only know as much about apple trees as what Ive read online. And picking fresh apples from my grandparents place when I was little. But they passed before I was old enough to really learn much about it. So yeah. Anyway thank you.

Were you saying I have plenty of room for a couple of them in the front or back yard?

JONA
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Either.....but I would put one in the back and one in the front.
You can plant a malus anywhere in the garden to act as a pollinator if you wanted to.....you can chop them around as much as you like to control them as they flower on one year old wood so even a hedge cutter can be used on them.
They flower over a long period and if you plant something like John Downey it will give you lovely fruit for crab apple jelly!

Thumper38
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Location: Iowa 5B

Ok thank you. I'll probably be heading out to pick some up as soon as we close on the house.



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