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applestar
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Anyone know what kind of grape? >> scuppernong muscadine

I have a grape vine that started to grow in a flower bed next to the patio. I've left it to grow for the last three years and last year and this year, it bore some fruits. Last year, the grapes on two clusters were sparse and turned black and shriveled so I thought it was a wild grape after all....

But this year the bunches are somewhat bigger though not full, and the fruits are ripening into 1" globe "red" grapes with one seed each. Sweet and flavorful, my kids are loving them. The grapes ripen individually so I have to pick them individually when they appear ripe. They look like black cherry tomatoes among my cherry tomato harvest.

tomc
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Applestar, if at a glance you think the leaf shape is round, go google, vitis roundifolia, Muscadine grape.

You are enough within its home range for a volunteer seed to be bird-donated...

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applestar
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Good call tomc. It really looks like Scuppernong muscadine and explains the sparse bunching. :D

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Tom wonders if he's become senile, :o or if Applestar amended her subject...

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applestar
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I edited the subject of the OP -- I think it's a good idea to do this once an ID is established so the question and ID request doesn't prompt unnecessary look (besides, *I'm* getting senile and keep looking in vaguely worded plant ID request threads when I've already participated :roll: :lol:)

Also, this way if anyone wants to see how Scuppernong muscadine looks or is described, they can find the thread more easy. :wink:

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Ok, I didn't answer a post (he looks around again, and shakes head), that already had an answer.

FWIW part of your original question is germain to how plants move around in nature.

Is a grape seed tough enough to pass through the chambered gut of a bird and come out the back side viable?

My wager is that could easily be true. Or just as likely a grape seed can stick to a bird and be cleaned off for latter replanting.

One has only to search for wild asparagus and find them along fence lines; to suspect a helpful bird.

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applestar
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Some day, if we ever have a big harvest.... I might make grape juice... 8)

Not this year, though we DO have some grapes fruiting! :D ... I discovered them this morning while inspecting the condition of the grape vine after the gusty storm a couple of days ago had ripped them off the roof rain gutter they were hanging onto before.
image.jpg
image.jpg
This is a (suspected to be scuppernong) grapes that some bird planted a few years ago. If so, its natural growing zone is only north to Zone 7. It's only fruited like this once a couple of years ago. But it was absolutely delicious when they were allowed to ripen to fully black on the vine. ...How to protect from the birds,,,? -- they didn't ripen all at once in a bunch, but one at a time.

...would it be helpful to scratch in some organic fruit tree fertilizer around the base of the vine and mulch at this time?

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applestar
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Subject: Fruit Harvest from season to season
applestar wrote:Haha my grapes are NOWHERE near like that. These are from a volunteer grape vine. Possibly "wild" muscadine -- originally thought they might be scuppernong but I'm seeing those described as white grapes.... They grow very sparse/loose clusters that do NOT ripen all at once. I have to feel them to see if they are ripe and harvest them individually.

Last year, I lost the entire lot to some problems -- they turned brown and rotted. I suspected problems triggered by insect damage -- like Japanese beetles and stinkbugs -- so I bagged the 6-8 clusters that set fruits this year, and they are finally starting to ripen -- they are incredibly yummy but astringent near the slip-skin if not allowed to ripen fully. One or two seeds per fruit.

Image
(Maid of Orleans Arabian tea jasmine blossoms and last of the wild blueberries)
Lindsaylew82 wrote:Our muscadines here are black. I've never seen a variety that is red like that. They have a very distinct flavor that isn't REALLY grape-y. The closest in flavor that I can think of, is concord, and it's still far off. Are the skins REALLY tough on these?
applestar wrote:Hmmm. Now I'm confused. Maybe this isn't a wild, bird-sown grape at all. Maybe it's from a spat out seed -- growing in the bed off the patio....?

I did a quick search at a table grape site and a likely candidate is Red Globe. Mine are not the 1 inch giants, but that -along with the poor and uneven fruitset in the cluster- might be explained by inadequate care and growing conditions? It's not in full sun for example. Maybe it's just not growing to its potential.

I'm going to start with this --
Causes of Poor Fruit Set in Grapes - eXtension
https://articles.extension.org/pages/331 ... -in-grapes

...and this --
Millerandage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerandage

A grape cluster with signs of millerandage with small, immature berries scattered throughout the bunch.
Millerandage (or shot berries, hens and chicks and pumpkins and peas) is a potential viticultural hazard problem in which grape bunches contain berries that differ greatly in size and, most importantly, maturity. Its most common cause is cold, rainy or otherwise bad weather during the flowering stage of the vines though other factors, such as boron deficiency or fanleaf degeneration, may also play a role.[1]
...maybe pay a bit more attention to it this fall and winter, and see where this goes. I might also try to grow some cuttings and see if I can find it a better location since the flavor is outstanding. The trouble is growing zone for Red Globe is Zone 7 and up. Right now, next to the brick patio and against the SE wall, it's probably in one of the most protected location possible without more elaborate set up.

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Lindsaylew82
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Scuppernong is known here as a white (green) fruit.

Both the muscadines and scuppernong get bronzing on them as well. At least here they do. ;)

The biggest tell tell is the skin. They both have ridiculously thick inedible skins.


They make FANTASTIC wines!

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applestar
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Lindsay, that skin description is a good clue. This doesn't have that kind of thick skin. I'm a bit sensitive about edibility of skin and generally tend to spit out cherry tomato skin and peel the regular tomatoes for fresh eating. I think the skin of these grapes are only a little bit thicker or as thick as thick skinned tomatoes, and I believe my kids eat the skin.

So I guess that decides it.

Here's a representative cluster and I tried arranging today's harvest on a ruled grid (inches). A few of them ARE -- or at least nearly are -- 1" in diameter. I ate the least ripe one -- sweet and flavorful central flesh slipped out of the skin, but the thin layer clinging to the skin is inedibly astringent (I use this word but I mean it makes your tongue feel like sandpaper -- maybe tannic? Is that the word?). When fully ripe, that bit on the skin is sweet and has a different delicious flavor that I think comes from the skin.

I saved the rest for my DD's. ;)
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Lindsaylew82
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I really do think this is some type of volunteer table grape. :()

And I'm so jelly! ;)



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