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Vanisle_BC
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- Posts: 1356
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)
Treated lumber
What's the latest science on building raised veggie beds with treated lumber?
Here they no longer treat with arsenic or copper compounds. All of the wood is treated with borax. The trade name is hybor , and there are still copper preservatives. Supposedly while it is still toxic, it has low levels. It is recommended to seal the wood first.
https://www.midwestgardentips.com/edibl ... aised-beds
Wood is not a good material for building in the tropics because of termites and rot. Even rot resistant wood like redwood and cedar still rots in the end. Wood is also very expensive. For those with few carpentry skills, using rocks or hollow tile lasts longer and requires fewer tools and what is still needed is patience, level, and a string wire. Maybe some sand too. Untreated pallets are a cost effective alternative. They can usually be found free. It does take some time to break the pallets apart to collect the wood and repurpose the pallet for a raised bed, wall garden, or garden fence. It does not last that long, but it can last a few years.
https://www.midwestgardentips.com/edibl ... aised-beds
Wood is not a good material for building in the tropics because of termites and rot. Even rot resistant wood like redwood and cedar still rots in the end. Wood is also very expensive. For those with few carpentry skills, using rocks or hollow tile lasts longer and requires fewer tools and what is still needed is patience, level, and a string wire. Maybe some sand too. Untreated pallets are a cost effective alternative. They can usually be found free. It does take some time to break the pallets apart to collect the wood and repurpose the pallet for a raised bed, wall garden, or garden fence. It does not last that long, but it can last a few years.
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Vanisle_BC
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 1356
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)
Thanks, imafan. My beds are old, of cedar but in need of rebuilding. I too am old and deteriorating. Rocks & blocks are not options. Whatever I do now will still have to be of wood. Maybe it could be what are locally called 'landscape ties' - 8 foot lengths of 'cheap' (!) wood about 3"x4" with 2 flat and 2 rounded faces - spiked together with rebar. They can be bought treated or not. After reading around I'd go for untreated. I think a lady - 'Rainbow-something', who used to be on here, had attractive beds of that type. Wood that thick will definitely outlast me. I have a personal war on plastic: No lining will be involved.
I'm generally not good at container growing - won't do much of that.
I'm going to have to seriously reduce both the area of my garden and the number & varieties of things I grow, concentrating on how to get most produce with least work in the smallest space. A good tomato crop is mandatory
- takes up space but other things can be inter planted. I wonder what are the pros & cons of growing small crowded plants (square foot style) as opposed to bigger ones that take up more space. One advantage of old age is reduced appetite !
I'm generally not good at container growing - won't do much of that.
I'm going to have to seriously reduce both the area of my garden and the number & varieties of things I grow, concentrating on how to get most produce with least work in the smallest space. A good tomato crop is mandatory
- takes up space but other things can be inter planted. I wonder what are the pros & cons of growing small crowded plants (square foot style) as opposed to bigger ones that take up more space. One advantage of old age is reduced appetite !It is amazing what you can grow in a small space. I know you are not into plastic. I grow a lot in containers. Mostly storage totes, muck buckets, and some large plastic pots. I prefer the resin "wine barrel". I have to make holes, but it is thick. 5 gallon buckets used to be cheap, but around here they are now about $5 new, so about the same price as a 5 gallon nursery pot. They are cheaper if I can find a restaurant that has pickle buckets or things that they buy in bulk, then a bucket would cost about $2 and may even have a lid.
I have a small yard and an HOA , so I have limited space in the backyard about 50ft by 15- 30 feet for most of the edible crops. I got two vertical towers that only take up about a 2x2 foot print but has 30-36 pockets. It is better for short plants like lettuce and baby greens, but I have grown beans, peppers, strawberries and herbs in the pockets and some pockets can hold more than one plant. The other advantage is that most of the pockets are reachable standing up. The real disadvantage is when the tower falls or has to be taken apart, then each tier is heavy.
In the containers and in the main garden, I get more than one crop if possible. The larger plants like peppers, tomatoes, eggplant, okra need a lot of space in the end but while they are small can share the space with a short crop of 30 days or less as long as it is compatible.
The main garden has very few perennials, but I do not plant anything in a row. Again plants do have to be compatible, but I grow the larger Asian greens, broccoli, some herbs, corn (seasonally), I try to space things so the leaves barely touch, but I don't usually put plants of the same kind next to each other unless I am going to harvest it all at one time. So now I have herbs under peppers, Asian cabbages between tomatoes and lots of perpetual spinach, chard, and komatsuna in between.
Some things I have learned not to plant in the ground. Ginger, turmeric, sweet potatoes, taro, and most other roots crops, are in large containers. Most of the roots have to be contained or they will just take over the garden. It is also easier to harvest them that way. Others, require a looser soil than my acidic clay base. My main garden has too much nitrogen so I get massive tops but not much roots. Containers are the only way to customize the soil and the fertilizer for the crop.
One of the Master Gardeners at the garden created an intensive garden bed that was 2ft by 6 ft. She had 65 different plants in that bed. It required that some plants be harvested out to make room for growing larger plants, but quite impressive nonetheless. It did take a lot of regular management because planting so close meant that you do have to stay on top of disease and pests. She gave me the first cucumber from the garden, since I was her advisor on how to make the most of the space by taking advantage of vertical space, inter planting, and planting the outside edge of the bed with flowers to attract beneficial insects.
I agree concrete and rocks are heavy for old guys like us to lift. I did the beds when I was a lot younger. I still could not lift that much, but I did have patience. I could only buy a few blocks at a time with my car, so I built the bed slowly over time. It still exists today. My main garden bed was inherited when we bought the house. It was a decrepit rock garden. The house had been a rental for 10 years and the yard was not taken care of. It took a while to dig out the weeds and work the compacted soil, but except for a few loose rocks now and then, It has also held up to time. It's disadvantage is that weeds grow between the rocks and it is hard to get them out.
I have balance problems so I have rebar poles with caps on them spaced around the main garden so if I do have to walk in there there is something to hold on to. The larger pots are about 18 inches off the ground, so it is high enough to sit on my garden stool to work it. The less bending the better. My orchids are on benches or mainly on the fence so they are easy to reach. The seedlings and small plants are on benches so they are also easier to reach. I have dollies to move soil and containers and if I have to empty a container, I remove the soil and put it in bags to make it lighter. I do my pruning now mainly with a reciprocating saw with a pruning blade. It is too tiring to use a hand saw for any length of time.
My new weed whacker is a lot heavier, so I have to take long breaks and days to complete the trimming. I have ratcheting pruners and loppers. Sickles are good tools, unfortunately they are hard for me to use, because left handed sickles are not that easy to find. I had to order one online. The ones I find at the stores here are all right handed. It is the same problem with the Japanese and Korean tools.
If you are rebuilding your bed consider making it high enough so you can either sit on the edge or you can work it standing up.
I have a small yard and an HOA , so I have limited space in the backyard about 50ft by 15- 30 feet for most of the edible crops. I got two vertical towers that only take up about a 2x2 foot print but has 30-36 pockets. It is better for short plants like lettuce and baby greens, but I have grown beans, peppers, strawberries and herbs in the pockets and some pockets can hold more than one plant. The other advantage is that most of the pockets are reachable standing up. The real disadvantage is when the tower falls or has to be taken apart, then each tier is heavy.
In the containers and in the main garden, I get more than one crop if possible. The larger plants like peppers, tomatoes, eggplant, okra need a lot of space in the end but while they are small can share the space with a short crop of 30 days or less as long as it is compatible.
The main garden has very few perennials, but I do not plant anything in a row. Again plants do have to be compatible, but I grow the larger Asian greens, broccoli, some herbs, corn (seasonally), I try to space things so the leaves barely touch, but I don't usually put plants of the same kind next to each other unless I am going to harvest it all at one time. So now I have herbs under peppers, Asian cabbages between tomatoes and lots of perpetual spinach, chard, and komatsuna in between.
Some things I have learned not to plant in the ground. Ginger, turmeric, sweet potatoes, taro, and most other roots crops, are in large containers. Most of the roots have to be contained or they will just take over the garden. It is also easier to harvest them that way. Others, require a looser soil than my acidic clay base. My main garden has too much nitrogen so I get massive tops but not much roots. Containers are the only way to customize the soil and the fertilizer for the crop.
One of the Master Gardeners at the garden created an intensive garden bed that was 2ft by 6 ft. She had 65 different plants in that bed. It required that some plants be harvested out to make room for growing larger plants, but quite impressive nonetheless. It did take a lot of regular management because planting so close meant that you do have to stay on top of disease and pests. She gave me the first cucumber from the garden, since I was her advisor on how to make the most of the space by taking advantage of vertical space, inter planting, and planting the outside edge of the bed with flowers to attract beneficial insects.
I agree concrete and rocks are heavy for old guys like us to lift. I did the beds when I was a lot younger. I still could not lift that much, but I did have patience. I could only buy a few blocks at a time with my car, so I built the bed slowly over time. It still exists today. My main garden bed was inherited when we bought the house. It was a decrepit rock garden. The house had been a rental for 10 years and the yard was not taken care of. It took a while to dig out the weeds and work the compacted soil, but except for a few loose rocks now and then, It has also held up to time. It's disadvantage is that weeds grow between the rocks and it is hard to get them out.
I have balance problems so I have rebar poles with caps on them spaced around the main garden so if I do have to walk in there there is something to hold on to. The larger pots are about 18 inches off the ground, so it is high enough to sit on my garden stool to work it. The less bending the better. My orchids are on benches or mainly on the fence so they are easy to reach. The seedlings and small plants are on benches so they are also easier to reach. I have dollies to move soil and containers and if I have to empty a container, I remove the soil and put it in bags to make it lighter. I do my pruning now mainly with a reciprocating saw with a pruning blade. It is too tiring to use a hand saw for any length of time.
My new weed whacker is a lot heavier, so I have to take long breaks and days to complete the trimming. I have ratcheting pruners and loppers. Sickles are good tools, unfortunately they are hard for me to use, because left handed sickles are not that easy to find. I had to order one online. The ones I find at the stores here are all right handed. It is the same problem with the Japanese and Korean tools.
If you are rebuilding your bed consider making it high enough so you can either sit on the edge or you can work it standing up.
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Vanisle_BC
- Greener Thumb
- Posts: 1356
- Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:02 pm
- Location: Port Alberni, B.C. Canada, Zone 7 (+?)
Thanks for the very full reply, imafan. No offence intended but in truth I often skip a lot of what you post, dealing with your much different climate, exotic plants I can't grow and cooking ingredients not available here .
Yes I try to avoid plastic; but if an item has had its first use why not give it another one! - except if it's not the right kind of sturdy plastic like those big pickle buckets, it will soon get brittle from UV and shatter into small pieces even harder to dispose of. I'm shy of containers because they need more attention than in-ground crops - need more watering, soil can overheat the roots, etc.; but I recently started some tarragon cuttings and the pieces I grew in a small pot have far outstripped the ones in the garden. There are very few edibles I can get two crops from, but I've begun trying to bring some -like peppers- through winter. (Flowers are my wife's domain)
Your growing towers are something I've not considered and should look into.
Growing in rows has some advantages - you can't use a hoe (or swoe, my favorite) between closely spaced plants.
I do have a lot of old clay bricks but the labour and stooping involved in bricklaying discourage me considerably from using them. Like you I never lift anything if I can wheel, roll or slide it. Sitting on the edge of beds- yes! My old beds are made t hat way. I don't think I'd make raised beds with 'false' or suspended bottoms.
Sorry you have the difficulty of finding left handed tools. My new weed whacker is cordless but also quite heavy. Id like one with wheels or maybe a rollerball but I've never seen such a thing.
I could weigh in on the posts about aches, pains & general loss of function but it's 5am; time to try for a couple of hours more sleep.
.Yes I try to avoid plastic; but if an item has had its first use why not give it another one! - except if it's not the right kind of sturdy plastic like those big pickle buckets, it will soon get brittle from UV and shatter into small pieces even harder to dispose of. I'm shy of containers because they need more attention than in-ground crops - need more watering, soil can overheat the roots, etc.; but I recently started some tarragon cuttings and the pieces I grew in a small pot have far outstripped the ones in the garden. There are very few edibles I can get two crops from, but I've begun trying to bring some -like peppers- through winter. (Flowers are my wife's domain)
Your growing towers are something I've not considered and should look into.
Growing in rows has some advantages - you can't use a hoe (or swoe, my favorite) between closely spaced plants.
I do have a lot of old clay bricks but the labour and stooping involved in bricklaying discourage me considerably from using them. Like you I never lift anything if I can wheel, roll or slide it. Sitting on the edge of beds- yes! My old beds are made t hat way. I don't think I'd make raised beds with 'false' or suspended bottoms.
Sorry you have the difficulty of finding left handed tools. My new weed whacker is cordless but also quite heavy. Id like one with wheels or maybe a rollerball but I've never seen such a thing.
I could weigh in on the posts about aches, pains & general loss of function but it's 5am; time to try for a couple of hours more sleep.
