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Dadbob2000
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- Location: BOISE Idaho
Hay bales as a base
I have 27" deep raised beds and was wondering if I could put a layer of hay bales in before the soil/compost. This would give me 16" of soil/compost, but not require the full 27" to be soil. Thoughts, suggestions?
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Allyn
- Green Thumb
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- Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:38 pm
- Location: Mississippi Gulf Coast - zone 8b
I've 'gardened' right in straw bales, so I think it might be worth a look. My concern would be putting that much decomposing material in the bottom of the bed and having the soil on top sink while the plants are growing. Of course, I did it right in the bale (throw some potting material right on the bale and then plant in the bale) so maybe the fear that it would sink and be a problem is unfounded.
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Lonesomedave
- Senior Member
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- Location: NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE- zone 6B - 7A on USDA plant hardiness map
I, like allyn, am not REALLY worried about whether you can garden successfully this way....I believe the answer is "yes".... but given that you have 27 inch beds (god, what I wouldn't give for a few of those)....I think the more important question is, can I set this thing up optimally to give me good gardening not only this year, but in years to come....
I think you should go on and do it this year...after the year is over, till the soil, or turn it over, or do something to mix the by-then rotted (or semi-rotted)straw with your compost/soil etc
then, next year, after the beds have compacted from the winter rains, after you see where your compacted straw-compost mixture is (that is, how deep), fill the beds up with pure compost/soil etc....no more straw at all.
in a couple of years you'll have full beds of absolutely great soil and I bet your drainage will be world-class
/s/ dave
I think you should go on and do it this year...after the year is over, till the soil, or turn it over, or do something to mix the by-then rotted (or semi-rotted)straw with your compost/soil etc
then, next year, after the beds have compacted from the winter rains, after you see where your compacted straw-compost mixture is (that is, how deep), fill the beds up with pure compost/soil etc....no more straw at all.
in a couple of years you'll have full beds of absolutely great soil and I bet your drainage will be world-class
/s/ dave
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applestar
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- Location: Zone 6, NJ (3/M)4/E ~ 10/M(11/B)
Haybale or strawbale? Makes a BIG difference.
Hay is green, straw is brown in terms of compost ingredients. Hay is nutrient dense and will heat up as soon as it gets wetted down. Too hot to plant immediately. Also will decompose/breakdown/disappear much faster and your bed will sink.
Straw with all the carbon will last longer but will tie up nitrogen more. My understanding is that you need to compensate with high N fertilizer.
Hay is green, straw is brown in terms of compost ingredients. Hay is nutrient dense and will heat up as soon as it gets wetted down. Too hot to plant immediately. Also will decompose/breakdown/disappear much faster and your bed will sink.
Straw with all the carbon will last longer but will tie up nitrogen more. My understanding is that you need to compensate with high N fertilizer.
If you have a composting facility near you, it would be better to see if they have a garden mix. It is usually reasonably priced if you have a truck to pick it up. It is ready to plant and contains soil, compost, and drainage material. Some contain fertilizer and some don't so you would have to check on that. It is ready to plant.
Adding haybales will not only sink and tie up nutrients when they decompose but you also want your compost to ideally be made of more than one source to be balanced.
A 27 inch bed is usually deeper than you really need it to be. Depending on how you have supported it, that is a lot of weight against the walls. If you wanted this to be high enough to be comfortable to work with. I would have build a raised bed with a bottom and put it on tile piers. It only needs to be 10-12 inches deep for most garden plants. Either that or cut down the bed to about 18 inches and make a bench on top so you can sit and work on the edge.
What we did with the deep mist box was put tiles in the bottom of the box to support a ply wood sheet. The plywood was covered with a waterproof sheet = pond liner and the media was put only in the top portion which was about a foot deep. Holes were drilled along the sides about an inch or two from the bottom for drainage. That way the mist box was still at waist height for working it.
Adding haybales will not only sink and tie up nutrients when they decompose but you also want your compost to ideally be made of more than one source to be balanced.
A 27 inch bed is usually deeper than you really need it to be. Depending on how you have supported it, that is a lot of weight against the walls. If you wanted this to be high enough to be comfortable to work with. I would have build a raised bed with a bottom and put it on tile piers. It only needs to be 10-12 inches deep for most garden plants. Either that or cut down the bed to about 18 inches and make a bench on top so you can sit and work on the edge.
What we did with the deep mist box was put tiles in the bottom of the box to support a ply wood sheet. The plywood was covered with a waterproof sheet = pond liner and the media was put only in the top portion which was about a foot deep. Holes were drilled along the sides about an inch or two from the bottom for drainage. That way the mist box was still at waist height for working it.
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coldgardenjw
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I was watching a MI gardener video and he talked about core gardening. Straw bales not hay bales are used. Hay can have weed seeds. He also said the straw was partially decomposed first before being put it n the bed. It is supposed to help the garden use less water and provide organic material later on. Since it takes up space it would use less soil. You only need 6-10 inches on top to grow most plants.
We have 36" raised beds and put a couple of feet of sawed up oak logs as the base, then aluminum window screen on top of that to keep the soilless mix from filtering down in the spaces between logs. Then a foot of native soil topped by the last foot of soilless mix, the cheap kind. This has worked well for 4 years so far. Straw as the middle section would most likely be OK.
Every year we top the beds off with new soilless mix as the old mix compresses. I think the straw layer would quickly decompose and you would be really adding a lot of soil to the containers. As stated you only need a foot or so of growing medium for most crops. Our raised beds are 36'X72" round cattle watering tanks so no problems with weight causing the side to have problems.
Every year we top the beds off with new soilless mix as the old mix compresses. I think the straw layer would quickly decompose and you would be really adding a lot of soil to the containers. As stated you only need a foot or so of growing medium for most crops. Our raised beds are 36'X72" round cattle watering tanks so no problems with weight causing the side to have problems.
Hugelkulture would also work in deep beds. Depending on the size and type of the logs, it would take a while to breakdown. It is more like a vertical lasagna bed.
Others here have done it successfully in deep raised beds. If you have the source materials readily available to you it would also be very cost effective.
https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles ... gelkultur/
Others here have done it successfully in deep raised beds. If you have the source materials readily available to you it would also be very cost effective.
https://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles ... gelkultur/