raised bed has been a real disappointment.

[tdump]

Can you folks help me understand what I did wrong ?
I have several things to ask questions about regarding my raised bed.This is my first 1 as I have always wanted 1 and things worked out that I got the materials and so forth to finally have 1.
I will explain the construction and such.
It is 4 foot wide by 14 feet long. Built with 2x12s and such.It has about 2 foot deep of organic materials in it.
It contains rotted ground up trees from 5 years ago,ground up leaves about 12 years old. 12 year old rotted horse manure, ashes from my wood stove, Perlite ,the white stuff for retaining moisture, pine sawdust that was fresh about February of 2015,not much was put in,
creek sand, compost made in my com poster that had ground up corn stalks,and don't know what all else was thrown in it but it was black and rotted.Some top soil was put in,peat moss was put in,a full bag, seems I am leaving out something.
Anyway, I checked the ph of the soil awhile ago with my little meter from Ebay and it was 7.5.
Moisture was about 5.The soil is very warm and moist about 2 inches below the surface and there is earth worms in there so big I thought they were snakes at first!
The bed gets about 6 to 7 hours of morning and early afternoon sun.
Early in the spring everything looked great.My cabbage was super,my lettuce grew well,my onions came up nice. I kept the stuff watered best I could. We do have a drought but with watering,that should help.

But it went down hill. First my cabbage got full of holes. it is ruined. I pulled it up awhile ago.
If it is a bug,how in the world can I apply anything to the cabbage that wont wind up in my Slaw? First cabbage I tried to grow,so perhaps something I did wrong?
The carrots have been planted since april 20th or so, they are not but about 3 inches tall. Should I just pull them up?
The radishes,never got round at the bottom,just grew up tall and long.They were from Burpee and it was seed tape,so spacing and depth were right.
The onions got about the size of a grape and the tops died,so I ate them with salads.I had planted Stuttgart and sweets, shoulda grew big.
The leaf lettuce, I got 4 salads worth and it withered up and died.
The shallots, came up nice,died and rotted.
I just transplanted a couple Roma tomato plants in where the cabbage was that I had in pots. Maby they will do better.
Help?

[Peter1142]

For the cabbage if it is caterpillars you can spray with Bt. It is non toxic and organic.

[rainbowgardener]

Yeah, gardening can be frustrating some times. We have someone else that has been writing in lately very frustrated by lots of pests and problems. To start with your cabbage had a very bad attack of slugs (like snails without shells). It is probably too late to save it now, because it really doesn't like hot weather. But soon it will be time to plant it again for a fall crop. If you deal with the slugs this time, your fall crop should do much better.

What I use for slugs is diatomaceous earth (DE), put around and on the plants. It is food grade, so if some doesn't get washed off, not a real problem. It is in the grain we eat anyway; grain is treated with it to keep bugs out. Main issue with DE is that it needs to be re-applied after rain. Other slug control: Sluggo is slug bait/ poison. Lots of organic gardeners use it (main ingredient is iron phosphate) though there is a bit of controversy about that. Beer traps-- put a shallow dish of beer out by your plants, buried so it is about ground level. Slugs will come and drown themselves in it. You will never see them in daytime, but if you come out late at night with flashlight and check the leaves, you will find them. If you aren't too squeamish, you can hand pick and drop into a bowl of salted water. Lay a board down flat on your soil near the plants. Come out in the heat of the day and lift the board and they will probably be underneath.

You still haven't told us where you are located, what your climate and weather conditions are. You didn't say when the lettuce, onions, etc were planted. Lettuce is a cool weather crop. Once it gets hot, it is done. You can plant it again later for fall crop and it will do better and last longer. Did you plant onion seeds or sets or what? Onions you have to grow the right type for your location - long day, short day, day neutral. And onion seeds need to be planted in the fall to overwinter. Onion sets can be planted in very early spring, as soon as the ground can be worked. They are slow and need a long time to bulb up.

PLEASE TELL US WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED. There is a lot to learn when you start gardening, but we will be glad to do the best we can to help you get through the learning curve, if you give the appropriate information and keep hanging in with us (too often people post once or twice and disappear; we can be most help through an on-going dialogue).

[imafan26]

This is the peak season for pests and diseases especially with all the rain people have been getting on the Eastern side of the U.S.

You bed is organic, but it takes years for organic to release nutrients. It isn't always about the age of what goes in, it is often it is the age and health of the soil web in your garden. What you have done is essentially created a compost pile in a raised bed which is more or less the basis of lasagna garden, but you missed the last step. After you build the layers you need to let it marinate for about 6 months. That is why it is best built during the fall and preferably with a legume cover crop to add nitrogen. Organic matter is low in NPK and what is present releases very slowly. If you want to plant the bed right away you needed to put about 4-6 inches of good rich soil at the top to plant in and you need to fertilize with fish emulson , AACT, or MG if you don't mind not being totally organic.

I can plant out of season and that helps with the pests. I also have a very active garden patrol that takes care of many problems. There are some problems that where I am forced to intervene especially with slugs and snails and birds. I still tolerate some damage and try to limit losses rather than expect 100 percent control.

I have planted broccoli and kale for 3 years and this is the first year I am having problems with cabbage worms. I can either use Bt if I can find it or insect netting or rotate my crops. I usually rotate my crops.

[tdump]

Well,The Piedmont of North Carolina near Charlotte is where I am. sorry about that.As that makes a big difference.
I constructed the bed in january and set it up and got the soil mixture in it about mid feb.
I did start planting onions in it in march,and I think lettuce and cabbage about that time. I had it wrote down on the white tags but don't have them handy.
So the soil didn't pickle long enough apparently. I had no idea about that.Thanks, as I wanted to build another 1 this year.
So by now it should be good to go? Um, I wonder if the heat from composting interfered?
I planted Stuttgart and a sweet onion sets that I got from Lowes locally. The shallots came from there to. I tried some from seed as well and they got all of 2 inchs tall and kicked the bucket. I have tried the onions that just look like pulled up spring onions before in the garden and sets usually beat them to the table for some reason.
Radish seed tape from Burpee's.
I had some Leeks in a pot from last year that never did any good and I put them in there. Didn't grow much. got strong and TOUGH as pine limbs.

I have saw that earth stuff in stores, so I can get that easy enough.

I have worked a garden since I was 14 but it is just open garden with rows of stuff.the spot I use down the road grows good onions and taters but I was hoping to eventually be able to garden here at home some in raised beds.
Easyer on my back and I can use my Mantis I got and repaired over the winter in it easy.

[imafan26]

Compost is the basis of building a strong soil web, it does take time. Also remember that compost is not fertilizer and that has to be supplied as well.

My vegetable garden is very small but it took me a while to figure out what grew well for me and what things grew well together and what did not.

Tomato and basil (before downy mildew) were fine, but strawberries and cabbage family did not like being next to each other. I actually put too much high nitrogen fertilizer in my yard for years so I had huge leafy plants but could not get a carrot, taro, onion, or beet to produce much of a root.

Fennel turned out to be the best plant in terms of getting the aphids under control. I have rarely seen any for about 3 years now. But, I did have to plant the fennel off in the corner by itself because while it was good at trapping aphids and feeding lady bug larvae, and the blooms attracted a host of beneficial insects, it would also stunt most other plants growing next to it. If they had the same kind of aphids, the plants next to the fennel trap got chewed down to the ground. I learned to plant fennel next to plants that are pretty much not bothered by anything or are bothered by other types of aphids so the fennel was neutral to it. I have fennel next to horseradish and gynuura. Both of these plants are pretty much bullet proof, nothing really bothers them much. I have gingers near them and they have a different kind of aphid so the fennel does not affect them one way or the other. I also have learned to help the fennel out by putting down ant bait whenever I see ants on the plants.

I put out fruit fly traps and I used to use beetle traps on the other side of my house farthest away from the garden to lure bugs away. I don't have a large beetle problem so I have stopped using the traps regularly.

My yard is planted with lots of flowers that have a long bloom period and since I use almost no pesticides even on those things I have a healthy garden full of beneficial insects, geckos, and the birds are +/_ they eat bugs, but like to eat my fruit too and the geckos eat mosquitoes, knats, beetles, and they really love earthworms. I plant cuphea, alyssum, lavender, sage, herbs (which are allowed to bloom), marigolds, and a diverse number of plants so that I have something in bloom pretty much all year.

I am not pest free; slugs and snails are my bane. I throw a lot of slug bait at them and have to go on regular snail hunts. For the most part my yard is in a balance where the damage is minimal and I still get enough produce to make the effort worthwhile. It means I have to use bird netting and covers for seedlings and pick tomatoes at first blush, dealing with bugs early and pulling out plants that are not doing well. Sick plants are magnets for bad bugs.

I have figured out more or less the best locations for plants and the best companions for them. The ones that don't work well get taken out or I try them in another location, or another one of my garden plots.

My home garden is rich in nitrogen and acidic so it is good for acid loving plants and leafy plants. I plant things that I have to water or pick nearly every day.

My community garden is at a higher elevation and the soil is more alkaline. I have to use the corn that is developed for Hawaii since most of the temperate corn is not resistant to maize mozaic virus. I have to plant GMO papaya there because the disease is widespread from all the squash growing there. It is good for growing root crops since it is a little more alkaline with a pH of 7.4 and I use much less nitrogen there. Root crops don't have to be picked every day.

The herb garden has bees and beneficial insects visiting the fennel, basil, sunflowers, and marigolds daily. Except for the kale, and occasionally the green onions, there hasn't been a problem with aphids in years. There are no geckos only mongoose. Mongoose will dig up the garden for grubs and meat meal, and the I have to get to the figs before the birds do. I do have problems with pepper weevils and spittle bugs. The spittle bugs are a nuisance and I just cut off the branches and trash them. Green onions are cut back when they get attacked by aphids and peppers that have been infested are removed and the peppers moved to a different location if the pepper weevils start going after the pepper pods. Hawaiian chilies have to be caged to keep the birds from capping the plants.

I get a lot of production from my plots with almost no pesticides. It doesn't mean I am pest free, but I have chosen the best plants and cultivars for the environment, attracted beneficial insects and have learned to live in balance with the rest of the denizens to limit the damage to the garden plants but accepting that some damage is inevitable. I use cultivars, barriers, cultural controls, or chemical controls only if I have to. It has taken a long time and a lot of practice to get here.

[tdump]

Well some of the soil has settled about 5 inches and I am going to mix up some more to put in the raised bed. I have already dumped the ground up compost from the bin I emptied and repaired this week.
Is there anything I can put in to improve onions? I am wanting to see if I can put out some sets and have onions this fall.

[ElizabethB]

Tdump,

warm welcome to the forum.

Regarding your slug issue I have had great results with pans of beer and a barrier of crushed egg shells.

Do a little research on seasonal planting. You have both hot weather and cool weather crops available to you. Planting the right crops at the right time will greatly increase your rate of success. Check with your county Extension Office for a region specific vegetable planting guide.

You may be planting the wrong plats at the wrong time.

Good luck

[imafan26]

If you are in North Carolina, you may not have gotten the right kind of onions to plant. You need to plant the right varieties for the day length at the right time.
There is some good information on this website.
https://www.dixondalefarms.com/category/onion_plants

Lettuce doesn't do well in the heat. Even heat tolerant varieties won't handle a lot of heat unless you can grow them in a microclimate. I can't grow cabbages, they like alkaline soil and between the caterpillars and the slugs, they don't have a chance. Not a beginner plant.

Carrots are a cool season plant, they like a deep rich sandy soil. Not too much nitrogen and thin them to an inch apart or you will only get mostly tops. Radishes don't care that much but if you did not get radishes and you got mostly tops, you probably had too much nitrogen. Small radishes are usually ready in about 21 days.

You can start some cool season crops now indoors and some outdoors carrots, Brussel's sprouts, broccoli, lettuce, cucumber, and spinach.
https://www.almanac.com/gardening/planti ... /Charlotte

The brassica (Brussel sprouts, broccoli, and kale) like the soil neutral to slightly alkaline. You can give a starter nitrogen, but not too much.

Root crops like beets, carrots, onions, and radish need to have room for the roots to grow so you need to thin to space them correctly. They can start off with a little nitrogen, but side dress with a lower nitrogen and more phosphorus about 3 weeks after sprouting. Radishes do not need side dressings.

[lexusnexus]

Using compost is a great idea for the garden. It adds important nutrients to the soil, not just nitrogen (and the plants don't really know the source of the nitrogen, nitrogen is nitrogen whether it's source is compost or chemical fertilizer). It adds the trace elements important to life which are not included in most chemical fertilizers. It adds greatly to the soil structure as well as a property called CEC (cation exchange capacity). This is ability of the soil to deliver nutrients to the plants. The higher the number the better. If you get a soil sample analyzed ask for this information to be provided in the report. If it is 4 or 5 start dumping compost and other organic material into your soil.

[applestar]

Well some of the soil has settled about 5 inches and I am going to mix up some more to put in the raised bed. I have already dumped the ground up compost from the bin I emptied and repaired this week.
Is there anything I can put in to improve onions? I am wanting to see if I can put out some sets and have onions this fall.

This is good. It shows that the bed needed to decompose quite a bit and settle -- there may have been air pockets too -- helped to aerate and decompose, but not so good for the roots. I think you are going to see much better results this time around.

At this point, wrong time of the year to grow bulbing onions to harvest this year as been mentioned already -- bulbing onions have a very specific growing season -- but you could grow green onions if you like.

If you want to do something fun and gratifyingly successful, try cutting your store-bought onions with generous pyramid shaped wedge on the bottom around the corky base (eat the rest)

Snuggle / half bury these pyramids in moist potting mix -- I do this part inside -- keep watered like seeds -- don't allow to dry out. Once they root and start to grow green shoots, plant them outside. They will grow green onions and if they manage to overwinter, then they will make bulbs next summer if they are the right variety for your area. Sometimes they just go straight to flower without bubing -- I don't know if that's because they are the wrong variety because some onion sets of correct variety do this too. You can let them go to seed and save seeds for growing scallions but don't count on them for bubing onions.

[jal_ut]

Top soil, that miraculous thin covering of the earth where plant roots exist contains mainly clay, silt, sand, organic matter, and a host of microscopic life forms. Those other things you mention that you placed in your planter are soil amendments and should be used sparingly. A good part of your problem is what you filled the box with.

[jal_ut]

Radishes, carrots, lettuce, cabbage are all early cool weather types. You would do well to plant them early about a week ahead of your last frost date. As far as cabbage, there are a host of critters that like to eat it. It is a favorite of the insect world, and it is not only insects. Anyway, if you are to have cabbage you about need to powder it with something from the day you plant seed.

OK now its into August, you might plant some warm weather crops for a fall crop. Zucchini, crookneck, cucumbers, green beans? I just got brave and planted some radish seed for a fall crop of radish. We will see how that goes? Have fun!

[tdump]

Well I reckon it appears I need to go get a scoop of topsoil and pour it in the bed and till it in. Makes sense as I didnt put much dirt in it the first time around.
Thanks for the help folks. Now to research why my grape jelly is brown and didnt set .

[applestar]

Just so you know, personally, I wouldn't TILL it in. I feel your layered bed has been doing its thing and has formed a certain vital soil community. Tilling now would disturb that.

I would just layer the top soil on top and rake it level.

[n8young]

Well I reckon it appears I need to go get a scoop of topsoil and pour it in the bed and till it in. Makes sense as I didnt put much dirt in it the first time around.
Thanks for the help folks. Now to research why my grape jelly is brown and didnt set .

Not enough pectin, and need something acidic to help preserve the color I believe......

[tdump]

Well,I didnt layer it when I put it together,I put in about 5 inchs of ground up trees in the very bottom and the manure, perlite and such was all tilled in as it was put in.I put the ground up tree stuff in the very bottom and didnt mix it with the rest so there was be some drainage . But all the goodies were mixed.

[imafan26]

It takes about 3 years for an organic garden to really do well in production. Now that most of the started materials has had a chance to decompose and sink, it won't be competing as much with the plant roots for nutrients. You should be able to add compost every time you plant to keep it going. The nutrients and micros from the starter materials are feeding the soil web and they should be building a healthier soil. When the soil web is balanced, you should be good to go.

[tdump]

well I just reviewed this thread. I got the bed cleaned out and such. My carrots,never got bigger than my thumb.
The Roma's I put in there from the pots, wow,I picked my last vine ripened 1 on Nov 4th. Those 2 plants gave more maters than all the rest I had in the big garden.
I actually rooted some suckers from a couple better boy's and they were doing well but I got them in to late to get a ripened 1 off the vine. so they are in a box in the house to get ripe.
I have the stuff to build another bed ,about a 4 by 8. I really like the idea, as I can garden without killing my back so much.

[rainbowgardener]

Since you brought this thread back, I reviewed it from the beginning. I was struck by this

It contains rotted ground up trees from 5 years ago,ground up leaves about 12 years old. 12 year old rotted horse manure, ashes from my wood stove, Perlite ,the white stuff for retaining moisture, pine sawdust that was fresh about February of 2015,not much was put in,
creek sand, compost made in my com poster that had ground up corn stalks,and don't know what all else was thrown in it but it was black and rotted.Some top soil was put in,peat moss was put in,a full bag

Now that I look at it, this looks like almost all browns, I.e. carbon rich, very little Nitrogen sources. The ground up trees are pretty much pure carbon and pull N from the soil in the process of breaking down further. Same for the sawdust. The leaves are not as intense and likely to subtract so much N, but they are a brown, a carbon not nitrogen source. The manure would be an N source, but 12 years old means all the N is gone from it. Nitrogen is much more volatile and transient than Carbon. Ashes are carbon and potassium source. Perlite and sand are non-nutritive. Peat moss has no nutritive value, but is Carbon rich. The only things in this list that MIGHT have had any nitrogen are the compost and top soil. Top soil would not likely be very N rich and you said, elsewhere in the thread, that you didn't use very much. Compost could have N, but it depends on what it was made from. The only ingredient you mentioned was corn stalks which are also a brown, very C rich.

So the way I see it, your plants were starving for any Nitrogen, which is the basis of soil fertility. For next year to be better you have to add a bunch of Nitrogen rich stuff to balance out all this C. This could include: chicken manure (if you put it in now, so it has a chance to be composted before you plant, otherwise it is too "hot"), blood meal, fish emulsion, seaweed meal, cotton seed meal, crab meal, feather meal, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, worm castings, bat guano, etc.

Best Wishes for next year.

[rainbowgardener]

PS the lack of Nitrogen fertility would make your plants weaker and more vulnerable to all the other pests and problems that can be in a garden, like the slugs.

[imafan26]

If your pH is 7.5, I would not use chicken manure. Laying hens are fed calcium which makes the manure alkaline and can push the pH up half a point. Steer manure is less of a problem. Other sources of nitrogen can be from green manures and legumes if they are inoculated, it can boost the nitrogen for the next crop. If you want to be organic, you can use an organic lawn fertilizer. It is made mostly from cottonseed meal. Alfalfa, feather meal, blood meal, and meat meal are other sources. You can also fertilize weekly with fish emusion or make manure or compost tea.

If you are not organic, you can just add a slow release fertilizer and supplement with nitrogen side dresssings. The thing about nitrogen is that it is a limiting factor of growth but it is also extremely volatile so it is constantly being cycled through the ecosystem. Nitrogen recommendations are usually to be divided into two or three side dressings.
https://www.visionlearning.com/en/librar ... n-Cycle/98

Actually, it might be a good idea to get a soil sample done. You can get it done at the nearest land grant university.Call the local extension office or master gardeners and they will tell you how to take the sample and where to bring it. They will also help you interpret the results. If you want organic recommendations you will have to ask for organic recommendations otherwise they will give you recommendations for synthetic fertilizer.

[jal_ut]

OK, help me out. You call it a "raised bed". Is it an actual raised bed with a bottom in it, kinda like a large flower pot? Or is it just sides on the ground such that the roots can actually go down into the existing soil? You know that plant roots go very deep when grown in the ground. From 3 to 8 feet deep.

Speaking of top soil, call your local sand and gravel company or the ready mix. These guys are all the time moving soil and likely have a pile of real topsoil that you can get to fill your beds.

[imafan26]

It is true, trucking companies often sell dirt. It may not be topsoil though. True topsoil is the first 4 inches of soil typically you would find in an undisturbed forest. Often what is sold as topsoil is really subsoil. It may still be o.k. to use, but it is not necessarily topsoil.

[jal_ut]

"But it went down hill. First my cabbage got full of holes. it is ruined. I pulled it up awhile ago.
If it is a bug,how in the world can I apply anything to the cabbage that wont wind up in my Slaw?"

DE, that is, diatomaceous earth. It is neither chemical nor poison, but the shells of diatoms. Look it up online. Ask at your garden store.

I hate to say it, but yes, cabbage is a favorite food of a lot of garden pests, and not limited to the insect type. If you really want to grow cabbage it needs protection from day one.

[tdump]

Wow,a lot to read here!
I have some time release nitrogen fertilizer if that would help to till it in?
I just put a loader scoop of a plant mix the local place is selling.It was compost and topsoil mix. Dang stuff was smoking when I dumped it in the raised bed. I tilled that in about a foot deep, and it looks good.But looks may be deceiving . I used 1 of the tiller attachments for a Ryobi weedeater power head. I repair this type equipment and I have bought clunker equipment and fixed it up for my use in the garden. Sure makes it easier for a handicapped person that can't dig with a shovel to work the dirt.
I would rather stay organic but if this is a nitrogen problem that can be solved by putting some time release on it now so it can start working in,I don't mind doing it to make my bed productive.

It is a wooden box about 4 by 14 that is about 3 foot tall with 2.5 feet of soil stuff in it. no bottom in it.

It really is alot easier for me to work with than a open garden area because I don't have to bend over as far.

[tdump]

Here are my 2 raised beds. The small I just put in today. I built it monday in the shop and set it in place with my tractor same as I did the large 1 a couple years ago.
it took 3 loader scoops of material to fill the 4 by 6 small bed.
The larger 1,the I started this post about, is 4 by 14. Took a good bit more material for it.
The bed with power poles around it is what I started trying to grow sweet taters in last year. Drought didn't help any. I did grow spring onions 1 row on each side of the tater row.
Also you can see my water barrel system I came up with. I used a 30 gallon barrel and used a satellite dish for a water catcher. I put a elbow in the line so mosquitoes would not live in the barrel. I turned the dish sideways so it would stop catching water. Excuse the mess of bottles under it
The "animal shield" over the large bed I made using the orange construction fencing material I had found in a roll in a trash heap 15 years ago and often wondered why I got it. When the critters messed up some stuff I figured out what to use it for.

I know the stuff is near a tree line. But the beds get full sun from the first morning ray of sunshine till about 2 pm in the afternoon when it gets scalding hot so it gets a good bit of sun.
Anyhow, here is a couple photos to help explain what I have.

[tdump]

Ok, I have reviewed this thread. I just put in 9 cabbages today.
SO apply DE around the plants and am I reading correctly, on the plant also?
Reason I ask is when this stuff makes a head, if I am lucky enough for it to,I want to make slaw out of it,And how in the world would I wash that stuff off?

If it is caterpillars, then a BT spray correct? So I get concentrate at Lowe's or somewhere and mix it and spray it.
Again,will this mess me up making slaw as how would I wash it off? I read on 1 website it could be applied up to the day of harvest but I wanted you all's input.

[imafan26]

Be careful there are different kinds of Bt. The one home depot sells for mosquitoes won't work on caterpillars. You want either dipel or thurgicide. You can get that from a local agriculture supplier and it is also sold on line but depending on where you live it may not get shipped to you.

[tdump]

thanks

[rainbowgardener]

both Bt and diatomaceous earth are harmless to people (you want the food grade DE, not what is sold for swimming pools). You have eaten DE, because it is put on grains in storage to help keep insects out. I dust the DE actually on the plants as well as around them.

[applestar]

IMHO Bonide Thuicide SMELLS awful -- like a petrochemical or something? -- it's not the Bt but the carrier liquid they use.

So many products that are described as "safe" up to day of or three days before harvest, etc. to me have offensive odor that I can't believe will wash off. But that might just be me.

[tdump]

Since I can use the DE for both flea prevention on the canine buddys I will go that route. I will read up on how to put it on the cabbage.