raised bed has been a real disappointment.

[n8young]

Well I reckon it appears I need to go get a scoop of topsoil and pour it in the bed and till it in. Makes sense as I didnt put much dirt in it the first time around.
Thanks for the help folks. Now to research why my grape jelly is brown and didnt set .

Not enough pectin, and need something acidic to help preserve the color I believe......

[tdump]

Well,I didnt layer it when I put it together,I put in about 5 inchs of ground up trees in the very bottom and the manure, perlite and such was all tilled in as it was put in.I put the ground up tree stuff in the very bottom and didnt mix it with the rest so there was be some drainage . But all the goodies were mixed.

[imafan26]

It takes about 3 years for an organic garden to really do well in production. Now that most of the started materials has had a chance to decompose and sink, it won't be competing as much with the plant roots for nutrients. You should be able to add compost every time you plant to keep it going. The nutrients and micros from the starter materials are feeding the soil web and they should be building a healthier soil. When the soil web is balanced, you should be good to go.

[tdump]

well I just reviewed this thread. I got the bed cleaned out and such. My carrots,never got bigger than my thumb.
The Roma's I put in there from the pots, wow,I picked my last vine ripened 1 on Nov 4th. Those 2 plants gave more maters than all the rest I had in the big garden.
I actually rooted some suckers from a couple better boy's and they were doing well but I got them in to late to get a ripened 1 off the vine. so they are in a box in the house to get ripe.
I have the stuff to build another bed ,about a 4 by 8. I really like the idea, as I can garden without killing my back so much.

[rainbowgardener]

Since you brought this thread back, I reviewed it from the beginning. I was struck by this

It contains rotted ground up trees from 5 years ago,ground up leaves about 12 years old. 12 year old rotted horse manure, ashes from my wood stove, Perlite ,the white stuff for retaining moisture, pine sawdust that was fresh about February of 2015,not much was put in,
creek sand, compost made in my com poster that had ground up corn stalks,and don't know what all else was thrown in it but it was black and rotted.Some top soil was put in,peat moss was put in,a full bag

Now that I look at it, this looks like almost all browns, I.e. carbon rich, very little Nitrogen sources. The ground up trees are pretty much pure carbon and pull N from the soil in the process of breaking down further. Same for the sawdust. The leaves are not as intense and likely to subtract so much N, but they are a brown, a carbon not nitrogen source. The manure would be an N source, but 12 years old means all the N is gone from it. Nitrogen is much more volatile and transient than Carbon. Ashes are carbon and potassium source. Perlite and sand are non-nutritive. Peat moss has no nutritive value, but is Carbon rich. The only things in this list that MIGHT have had any nitrogen are the compost and top soil. Top soil would not likely be very N rich and you said, elsewhere in the thread, that you didn't use very much. Compost could have N, but it depends on what it was made from. The only ingredient you mentioned was corn stalks which are also a brown, very C rich.

So the way I see it, your plants were starving for any Nitrogen, which is the basis of soil fertility. For next year to be better you have to add a bunch of Nitrogen rich stuff to balance out all this C. This could include: chicken manure (if you put it in now, so it has a chance to be composted before you plant, otherwise it is too "hot"), blood meal, fish emulsion, seaweed meal, cotton seed meal, crab meal, feather meal, alfalfa meal, soybean meal, worm castings, bat guano, etc.

Best Wishes for next year.

[rainbowgardener]

PS the lack of Nitrogen fertility would make your plants weaker and more vulnerable to all the other pests and problems that can be in a garden, like the slugs.

[imafan26]

If your pH is 7.5, I would not use chicken manure. Laying hens are fed calcium which makes the manure alkaline and can push the pH up half a point. Steer manure is less of a problem. Other sources of nitrogen can be from green manures and legumes if they are inoculated, it can boost the nitrogen for the next crop. If you want to be organic, you can use an organic lawn fertilizer. It is made mostly from cottonseed meal. Alfalfa, feather meal, blood meal, and meat meal are other sources. You can also fertilize weekly with fish emusion or make manure or compost tea.

If you are not organic, you can just add a slow release fertilizer and supplement with nitrogen side dresssings. The thing about nitrogen is that it is a limiting factor of growth but it is also extremely volatile so it is constantly being cycled through the ecosystem. Nitrogen recommendations are usually to be divided into two or three side dressings.
https://www.visionlearning.com/en/librar ... n-Cycle/98

Actually, it might be a good idea to get a soil sample done. You can get it done at the nearest land grant university.Call the local extension office or master gardeners and they will tell you how to take the sample and where to bring it. They will also help you interpret the results. If you want organic recommendations you will have to ask for organic recommendations otherwise they will give you recommendations for synthetic fertilizer.

[jal_ut]

OK, help me out. You call it a "raised bed". Is it an actual raised bed with a bottom in it, kinda like a large flower pot? Or is it just sides on the ground such that the roots can actually go down into the existing soil? You know that plant roots go very deep when grown in the ground. From 3 to 8 feet deep.

Speaking of top soil, call your local sand and gravel company or the ready mix. These guys are all the time moving soil and likely have a pile of real topsoil that you can get to fill your beds.

[imafan26]

It is true, trucking companies often sell dirt. It may not be topsoil though. True topsoil is the first 4 inches of soil typically you would find in an undisturbed forest. Often what is sold as topsoil is really subsoil. It may still be o.k. to use, but it is not necessarily topsoil.

[jal_ut]

"But it went down hill. First my cabbage got full of holes. it is ruined. I pulled it up awhile ago.
If it is a bug,how in the world can I apply anything to the cabbage that wont wind up in my Slaw?"

DE, that is, diatomaceous earth. It is neither chemical nor poison, but the shells of diatoms. Look it up online. Ask at your garden store.

I hate to say it, but yes, cabbage is a favorite food of a lot of garden pests, and not limited to the insect type. If you really want to grow cabbage it needs protection from day one.

[tdump]

Wow,a lot to read here!
I have some time release nitrogen fertilizer if that would help to till it in?
I just put a loader scoop of a plant mix the local place is selling.It was compost and topsoil mix. Dang stuff was smoking when I dumped it in the raised bed. I tilled that in about a foot deep, and it looks good.But looks may be deceiving . I used 1 of the tiller attachments for a Ryobi weedeater power head. I repair this type equipment and I have bought clunker equipment and fixed it up for my use in the garden. Sure makes it easier for a handicapped person that can't dig with a shovel to work the dirt.
I would rather stay organic but if this is a nitrogen problem that can be solved by putting some time release on it now so it can start working in,I don't mind doing it to make my bed productive.

It is a wooden box about 4 by 14 that is about 3 foot tall with 2.5 feet of soil stuff in it. no bottom in it.

It really is alot easier for me to work with than a open garden area because I don't have to bend over as far.

[tdump]

Here are my 2 raised beds. The small I just put in today. I built it monday in the shop and set it in place with my tractor same as I did the large 1 a couple years ago.
it took 3 loader scoops of material to fill the 4 by 6 small bed.
The larger 1,the I started this post about, is 4 by 14. Took a good bit more material for it.
The bed with power poles around it is what I started trying to grow sweet taters in last year. Drought didn't help any. I did grow spring onions 1 row on each side of the tater row.
Also you can see my water barrel system I came up with. I used a 30 gallon barrel and used a satellite dish for a water catcher. I put a elbow in the line so mosquitoes would not live in the barrel. I turned the dish sideways so it would stop catching water. Excuse the mess of bottles under it
The "animal shield" over the large bed I made using the orange construction fencing material I had found in a roll in a trash heap 15 years ago and often wondered why I got it. When the critters messed up some stuff I figured out what to use it for.

I know the stuff is near a tree line. But the beds get full sun from the first morning ray of sunshine till about 2 pm in the afternoon when it gets scalding hot so it gets a good bit of sun.
Anyhow, here is a couple photos to help explain what I have.

[tdump]

Ok, I have reviewed this thread. I just put in 9 cabbages today.
SO apply DE around the plants and am I reading correctly, on the plant also?
Reason I ask is when this stuff makes a head, if I am lucky enough for it to,I want to make slaw out of it,And how in the world would I wash that stuff off?

If it is caterpillars, then a BT spray correct? So I get concentrate at Lowe's or somewhere and mix it and spray it.
Again,will this mess me up making slaw as how would I wash it off? I read on 1 website it could be applied up to the day of harvest but I wanted you all's input.

[imafan26]

Be careful there are different kinds of Bt. The one home depot sells for mosquitoes won't work on caterpillars. You want either dipel or thurgicide. You can get that from a local agriculture supplier and it is also sold on line but depending on where you live it may not get shipped to you.

[tdump]

thanks

[rainbowgardener]

both Bt and diatomaceous earth are harmless to people (you want the food grade DE, not what is sold for swimming pools). You have eaten DE, because it is put on grains in storage to help keep insects out. I dust the DE actually on the plants as well as around them.

[applestar]

IMHO Bonide Thuicide SMELLS awful -- like a petrochemical or something? -- it's not the Bt but the carrier liquid they use.

So many products that are described as "safe" up to day of or three days before harvest, etc. to me have offensive odor that I can't believe will wash off. But that might just be me.

[tdump]

Since I can use the DE for both flea prevention on the canine buddys I will go that route. I will read up on how to put it on the cabbage.