Ok So having been doing all kinds of research on types of woods etc that can be used for raised beds, I am not that keen on the fact that they will eventually need to be replaced say every 5 years (I'm just throwing that number out there for now). No pressure treated, railroad ties can be bad so I've been finding (I like to garden organic btw), and most other woods are between 2-6 year replacement rates.
Cinder blocks cheaper and don't run the risk of replacing all the time but can break. Has anyone thought to use PVC piping? I was thinking it would be lighter to handle (I'm wanting to do a raised bed on a very large scale here like 16 foot long. Was thinking 16'x16' but then I would have to find a way to get between the plants etc. So maybe a couple of 4' wide 16' long ones cost depending).
So far as I can tell they would be safe to use as most homes have PVC pipe in some form or another for water pipes etc. So that being said, I am wondering how they would be able to be stacked and held down etc? I don't have any other ideas at the moment except I did see a video on YouTube about plastic lumber? Will be researching that as well. TIA to everyone!
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WinglessAngel
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You don't really have to have sides to the bed you can just mound the soil up on a raised berm. You can get about 8 inches over the surface. this type of bed works best if the soil under is well drained and double dug first. It is one way to sheet mulch. When you sheet mulch the bed will be about 18 inches tall but it does shrink as it decomposes
Other materials that can be used to build raised beds.
Stones or pavers can be piled, to form the bed sides. Bad points are that weeds and slugs like to hide under and between the stones
I have hollow tile beds. The cement doesn't really crack unless I hit it with a pick. Mine is dry laid with rebar every 2 ft to stabilize the blocks. The cores are filled with dirt and planted but they can be filled with stones instead and capes can be mortared in place to give you a place to sit.
Pressure treated lumber today is no longer treated with arsenic and supposedly is safe to use to build raised beds. It is best if it is lined to prevent direct contact with the soil.
Cedar and redwood are expensive but are rot resistant and depending on your climatic conditions will last 7-15 years.
https://www.sunset.com/garden/perfect-ra ... 000039550/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/ho ... 64#slide-1
If you are willing to bear the costs up front. Trex does not rot but it can be broken if it is hit hard enough.
You can build the bed with keystone blocks. They do not need to be mortared in, they are nice to look at but the walls will be thick and each block can cost $5 or more. You can still break the stone if you hit it hard enough.
There are raised bed kits made of plastic material, but they aren't very high.
If you want a low cost bed, you can build it with non treated pallets. It works but will need to be replaced in a few years. Pallets also are good for creating compost bins. And you can probably find pallets for free. Many of them will be damaged but some will be taken apart anyway and the pallets can be rebuilt. The hardest thing with pallets is getting all the old nails out or at least pounding them so they won't cause injury.
Other materials that can be used to build raised beds.
Stones or pavers can be piled, to form the bed sides. Bad points are that weeds and slugs like to hide under and between the stones
I have hollow tile beds. The cement doesn't really crack unless I hit it with a pick. Mine is dry laid with rebar every 2 ft to stabilize the blocks. The cores are filled with dirt and planted but they can be filled with stones instead and capes can be mortared in place to give you a place to sit.
Pressure treated lumber today is no longer treated with arsenic and supposedly is safe to use to build raised beds. It is best if it is lined to prevent direct contact with the soil.
Cedar and redwood are expensive but are rot resistant and depending on your climatic conditions will last 7-15 years.
https://www.sunset.com/garden/perfect-ra ... 000039550/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/ho ... 64#slide-1
If you are willing to bear the costs up front. Trex does not rot but it can be broken if it is hit hard enough.
You can build the bed with keystone blocks. They do not need to be mortared in, they are nice to look at but the walls will be thick and each block can cost $5 or more. You can still break the stone if you hit it hard enough.
There are raised bed kits made of plastic material, but they aren't very high.
If you want a low cost bed, you can build it with non treated pallets. It works but will need to be replaced in a few years. Pallets also are good for creating compost bins. And you can probably find pallets for free. Many of them will be damaged but some will be taken apart anyway and the pallets can be rebuilt. The hardest thing with pallets is getting all the old nails out or at least pounding them so they won't cause injury.
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WinglessAngel
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Thank you and yes I realize about the treated lumber now but I still don't want to take the chance on the wood not lasting long enough. Though hubby and I did do some chatting about it. We're thinking of doing it sometime by early next spring before season starts for planting sort of thing. For us cost wise and availability railroad ties are what's here around us. That's if we can get delivery. But we talked about it and for us the best way to go I think is to still go ahead and use the railroad ties but line the interior with plastic sheeting/the best I can find anyway that won't seep chemicals into the soil, and then fill it with dirt. We're going for a 24" depth therebouts. I don't want to have to replace them every 5 years and the railroad ties I know will last forever and an age. Plus the height will keep out the bunnies and our beavers. Hubby thinks about 16' square design will work well for our area we have that we can put it in. We'll have to check on prices too for dirt delivery, we'll probably need at least a full dump truck load from our local place we have here (that's if they do dirt). Right now I'm just trying to get some ducks in a row and get numbers and options. I did check out the plastic lumber I heard about and holy geez the prices for that stuff! He wants to put an Asian pagoda setup in it and a Buddha statue in it (I'm South Korean and he is a non practicing Shaolin Priest) and some other things as well but it will mainly be for my veggie gardening and some permanent herb plants and things. He's trying to plan out a walk path design for me too and steps as I have a bad hip. He wants to make sure I can still get into it if my hip is bothering me and at least walk about in my garden area.
Breaking up cinderblocks (enough to need replacement) isn't that easy to do, even with powertools. I guess you could steal or create curbs out of concrete or granite (they only weight 300 LB each...)
In my NH garden plain-jane untreated two-by's lasted an average of seven years. You have to decide how long your going to manage that garden. if its less than eight years, I'd use two-by's. If longer cinderblocks or something more stoney.
And as other posters have noted, you can start with simple mounded beds.
In my NH garden plain-jane untreated two-by's lasted an average of seven years. You have to decide how long your going to manage that garden. if its less than eight years, I'd use two-by's. If longer cinderblocks or something more stoney.
And as other posters have noted, you can start with simple mounded beds.
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applestar
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It sounds like you want a long term solution. Issues you may want to consider are --
-- How high/deep raised beds -- I believe higher would be easier on your hip/back.
-- How will you work? -- you want to at least be able to lean or kneel on the sides if less than knee high, or step on them if low. You may want to be able to sit on them.
-- You would want them to be relatively narrow so as not to need to bend or reach for the middle. 2-1/2 to 3 feet to be accessed from both sides... Unless you are tall with long arms.
-- If clear smooth walkways are needed cardboard and mulch works well. If smoother surface is desired, you may want to pave them.
-- How high/deep raised beds -- I believe higher would be easier on your hip/back.
-- How will you work? -- you want to at least be able to lean or kneel on the sides if less than knee high, or step on them if low. You may want to be able to sit on them.
-- You would want them to be relatively narrow so as not to need to bend or reach for the middle. 2-1/2 to 3 feet to be accessed from both sides... Unless you are tall with long arms.
-- If clear smooth walkways are needed cardboard and mulch works well. If smoother surface is desired, you may want to pave them.
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WinglessAngel
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Long term solution yes, 24" deep therebouts, and as far as breaking them it would be easy to do as the raised bed is going in one of the side fields of our property and we have to use a tractor to mow, so sturdier and lasting longer is a must lol. As far as my back that's not really the issue it's my hip and hubby worries more about it than I do 
He wants to put in paving stones for the walk paths too which is fine with me. He loves building stuff and does all the building designs for stuff we build here at the house and on the property himself. So with the size being 16'x16' that won't be a problem for us. We also have 4 fruit trees to plant to start a mini orchard in said same side field too lol.
He wants to put in paving stones for the walk paths too which is fine with me. He loves building stuff and does all the building designs for stuff we build here at the house and on the property himself. So with the size being 16'x16' that won't be a problem for us. We also have 4 fruit trees to plant to start a mini orchard in said same side field too lol.-
applestar
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In that case, you may want to consider masonry lower course and wood, etc. upper course.
Also, 16x16 defeats the raised bed concept, which is not to walk in them and compact the soil. If you are confident that you can reach into 4 ft wide beds (I can't and am regretting them -- will probably dismantle and change them to 3ft wide beds at some point) to with 4ft wide raise beds with maybe 2ft wide paths in between. Depending on the side material, the actual internal width will need to be narrower.
If the area is not clear access all around, last bed bounded by fence, etc will need to be narrower for one sided access.
If you are saying the AREA is 16x16, think about how to break up that space. 16 ft long bed can sometimes feel like an awfully long way to walk all the way around to the other side. One way is to have a central pathway and branching side paths -- think vein on a leaf. ...or You could plan a sort of a curving mandala or patchwork design of triangles and diamonds. Beds don't have to be rectangles.
Also, 16x16 defeats the raised bed concept, which is not to walk in them and compact the soil. If you are confident that you can reach into 4 ft wide beds (I can't and am regretting them -- will probably dismantle and change them to 3ft wide beds at some point) to with 4ft wide raise beds with maybe 2ft wide paths in between. Depending on the side material, the actual internal width will need to be narrower.
If the area is not clear access all around, last bed bounded by fence, etc will need to be narrower for one sided access.
If you are saying the AREA is 16x16, think about how to break up that space. 16 ft long bed can sometimes feel like an awfully long way to walk all the way around to the other side. One way is to have a central pathway and branching side paths -- think vein on a leaf. ...or You could plan a sort of a curving mandala or patchwork design of triangles and diamonds. Beds don't have to be rectangles.
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WinglessAngel
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The gardening area size of 16'x16' I'm not worried about and yes I realize about being able to get to all parts of it easily via the walk paths. Mainly the reason for me is that we have unused (about 3 acres worth) field space that we have available. My field garden area is becoming increasingly harder for me to get into and out of and weed etc as well as my other gardening area. We are combatting the small animal problem still and the raised portion is a must to keep them out. The area where it will be going is cleared and kept mowed with our tractor and is free of trees etc.
a curious dilemma.
real rail road ties last forever because they are heavily impregnated with creosote - which has a bad reputation for health concerns. use of plastic liner: very iffy, so far as preventing creosote leaching.
24 inches deep = three courses of masonry block. in NE Ohio with the freezing / thawing, that height of masonry construction will crack and fail.
"plastic lumber" - does not rot / etc. however, it is plastic - under (soil) constant pressure it will deform/bend/bow out. there's nominal one inch thickness for fascia boards, etc and thicker stuff for decking. the decking stuff gets pricy.
as everyone has mentioned, 16x16 is "contrary" to some of the basic "theories" of raised beds - including access and drainage.
if you can't reach to the center, you have to climb up on it. at that size, there's very little difference between a flat soil level bed and a raised bed - just that you'll need some steps to get up there perhaps? and hardscape to get around in it. you'll just be stooping and bending at a elevation 24 inches higher than before.
24 inches isn't going to stop a beaver, and the bunnies will use the steps. if critter control is the main issue, fencing is a better option.
I have used 2x8 douglas fir - it lasted 15 years in the Philadelphia area - the every five years estimate may be a bit short. I'm now using 6x6 locust - been in 8 years with zero signs of decay.
real rail road ties last forever because they are heavily impregnated with creosote - which has a bad reputation for health concerns. use of plastic liner: very iffy, so far as preventing creosote leaching.
24 inches deep = three courses of masonry block. in NE Ohio with the freezing / thawing, that height of masonry construction will crack and fail.
"plastic lumber" - does not rot / etc. however, it is plastic - under (soil) constant pressure it will deform/bend/bow out. there's nominal one inch thickness for fascia boards, etc and thicker stuff for decking. the decking stuff gets pricy.
as everyone has mentioned, 16x16 is "contrary" to some of the basic "theories" of raised beds - including access and drainage.
if you can't reach to the center, you have to climb up on it. at that size, there's very little difference between a flat soil level bed and a raised bed - just that you'll need some steps to get up there perhaps? and hardscape to get around in it. you'll just be stooping and bending at a elevation 24 inches higher than before.
24 inches isn't going to stop a beaver, and the bunnies will use the steps. if critter control is the main issue, fencing is a better option.
I have used 2x8 douglas fir - it lasted 15 years in the Philadelphia area - the every five years estimate may be a bit short. I'm now using 6x6 locust - been in 8 years with zero signs of decay.
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WinglessAngel
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Yes I understand. I also want to have some measure of asthetics too so we'll see. RIght now we're only in planning stages. I wanted a larger bed because I can centralize my garden into it and not have to go between the front of the house, the back and the field garden area. It's harder on me to have to go between the three areas than it is to be able to have just one.
If you have a 16 x 16 area for the whole garden, it is as apple said better to break it up into smaller beds and pathways. You won't need to fill the entire area just the beds and that will save cost on fill material. Consider raising some of the beds to a height where you don't have to do much bending to save the hips.
Larger crops with deeper roots would probably go into lower beds. It is not so much growing them in higher beds but, they are a lot easier to pull out if I don't have to climb into the bed.
I would have a higher bed with a cap made from either rot resistant wood with a liner in the bed to minimize soil contact with the wood. (It won't last forever, but it should help extend the life. It may help if you also seal the wood in the bed with something like Lifetime wood sealer which is supposed to be non-toxic. The recommendation is still to avoid contact with the soil as much as possible to slow rot. It may mean a foundation of concrete or some form of legs on the the beds.
If you want something long lasting, concrete masonry blocks do last a long time. They can also be lined because concrete can leach, but I have not found that to be a problem. I don't deal with snow but I would think that since the blocks are not mortared in, and dry laid, they would not crack as much. Dry laying them gives them lots of "cracks " to drain out excess water from rain and would provide for some expansion. They can be shifted though. I had ginger that pushed a couple of blocks and I had to reset them. I only have beds two tiles high and I am 5'3" so it is high enough for me to sit on the caps and work the beds. I made the mistake of putting it up against a wall. First, plants don't like a solid hot concrete wall so they grow away from the wall except for vanda and night blooming cereus which love it. I don't have access from the back side so I cannot reach across a 4 ft wide bed, so I do have to climb into it for major weeding, I'd still have to climb into it to add amendments and digging, but it is not that often and at least it isn't 4 ft high, I am not good with heights.
Consider even smaller planter beds for some things that are at a comfortable height. My dad is 86 and he doesn't like to bend so he is putting raised planters in his raised bed and only plants big things like egpplant in the ground. He uses 55 gal plastic food grade drums that have been halved longitudinally. The plant stand is made from pipes. He grows lettuce, choi sum, bok choy and some herbs in these planters. Since these crops have to be harvested and replanted often and they are small, they are good choices for containers. Other types of containers or planters can be more aesthetic, but the idea is to meet your physical needs by getting the beds to a level that is comfortable to work with.
https://www.valhalco.com/index.php
https://www.unce.unr.edu/publications/fi ... fs1033.pdf
The railroad ties do contain toxic materials for preservatives. I know people use them for general landscaping, but I don't know about using them where they can leach into something you will be eating.
Larger crops with deeper roots would probably go into lower beds. It is not so much growing them in higher beds but, they are a lot easier to pull out if I don't have to climb into the bed.
I would have a higher bed with a cap made from either rot resistant wood with a liner in the bed to minimize soil contact with the wood. (It won't last forever, but it should help extend the life. It may help if you also seal the wood in the bed with something like Lifetime wood sealer which is supposed to be non-toxic. The recommendation is still to avoid contact with the soil as much as possible to slow rot. It may mean a foundation of concrete or some form of legs on the the beds.
If you want something long lasting, concrete masonry blocks do last a long time. They can also be lined because concrete can leach, but I have not found that to be a problem. I don't deal with snow but I would think that since the blocks are not mortared in, and dry laid, they would not crack as much. Dry laying them gives them lots of "cracks " to drain out excess water from rain and would provide for some expansion. They can be shifted though. I had ginger that pushed a couple of blocks and I had to reset them. I only have beds two tiles high and I am 5'3" so it is high enough for me to sit on the caps and work the beds. I made the mistake of putting it up against a wall. First, plants don't like a solid hot concrete wall so they grow away from the wall except for vanda and night blooming cereus which love it. I don't have access from the back side so I cannot reach across a 4 ft wide bed, so I do have to climb into it for major weeding, I'd still have to climb into it to add amendments and digging, but it is not that often and at least it isn't 4 ft high, I am not good with heights.
Consider even smaller planter beds for some things that are at a comfortable height. My dad is 86 and he doesn't like to bend so he is putting raised planters in his raised bed and only plants big things like egpplant in the ground. He uses 55 gal plastic food grade drums that have been halved longitudinally. The plant stand is made from pipes. He grows lettuce, choi sum, bok choy and some herbs in these planters. Since these crops have to be harvested and replanted often and they are small, they are good choices for containers. Other types of containers or planters can be more aesthetic, but the idea is to meet your physical needs by getting the beds to a level that is comfortable to work with.
https://www.valhalco.com/index.php
https://www.unce.unr.edu/publications/fi ... fs1033.pdf
The railroad ties do contain toxic materials for preservatives. I know people use them for general landscaping, but I don't know about using them where they can leach into something you will be eating.
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WinglessAngel
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Thank you for the suggestions. The purpose of the larger bed is so that I don't have to go to multiple beds and plus we have to tractor mow our fields where it would be going and to have to tractor mow between each bed is not an option here. Like I've said before we're still in planning stages and I mostly wanted to get the input on the materials to build with since so many people feel differently about the materials out there. For now we are definitely set on using railroad ties with a liner to fully minimize the soil contact with the ties. We have been tossing about the idea for one large bed for a couple years now anyway. Hubby is into bonsai gardening too and a least a portion of it, most likely towards the center, would be dedicated to permanent plant residents for him and landscaping.