Raised Beds VS In ground gardening

[lovely_star]

Hey Eric,

Thanks. I figured about 7 cubic yards of soil. Interesting this is the first time I have heard about coconut coir. I don't know if I would be able to find that out here but I will look into it. I live in the city, not in WA where you have scenic nature and forests with big beautiful redwoods.

[cynthia_h]

How will you reach into a 5' wide raised bed to work on the plants without stepping into the box? One of the ideas of raised beds is that the planting soil/medium is never stepped on (compacted); this makes pulling the random weed very easy. It also makes harvesting root veggies very easy!

But 5' wide is quite a ways. Try it; most people (men *or* women) do not have a 30" reach, which is what you would need to get halfway in from either side.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[M.Clark]

How does the price of Coconut Coir compare with peat?

[DoubleDogFarm]

These are Island prices.

3.8 cuft of peat moss is $17.29

2.0 cuft Coconut Coir is $8.99 x 2 = $17.98

You are getting 4 cuft of Coir. So the prices are close enough in my book.

Eric

[shadowsmom]

How will you reach into a 5' wide raised bed to work on the plants without stepping into the box? One of the ideas of raised beds is that the planting soil/medium is never stepped on (compacted); this makes pulling the random weed very easy. It also makes harvesting root veggies very easy!

But 5' wide is quite a ways. Try it; most people (men *or* women) do not have a 30" reach, which is what you would need to get halfway in from either side.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

I place a plank across the raised bed, on the edging of the bed, so that it doesn't touch the ground. My beds are 4 feet wide but I'm short and have trouble working in the middle comfortable. This way I have a board suspended across and I can place a foot or knee on it and work in the middle easily. They are not secured - I move them around as needed.

[lovely_star]

How will you reach into a 5' wide raised bed to work on the plants without stepping into the box? One of the ideas of raised beds is that the planting soil/medium is never stepped on (compacted); this makes pulling the random weed very easy. It also makes harvesting root veggies very easy!

But 5' wide is quite a ways. Try it; most people (men *or* women) do not have a 30" reach, which is what you would need to get halfway in from either side.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

I'm 5'7" and very limby (long legs, arms) and DH is 6'1 so I didn't think 1' more than the standard 4' would really be an issue.

Hey guys I plan on starting my seeds indoors this weekend. I've been researching seed starting on the forum and I'm wondering if I will need grow lights? None of the gardening books I've read so far mention anything about grow lights. I thought I'd just sit seedlings in a sunny area. Apparently this might not be enough. I plan on starting my cabbage, tomato, lettuce, celery, radicchio, kale, peppers, rosemary, herbs (basil, parsley, oregano, thyme) broccoli, flowers (marigold, lavender, petunias). Do all of them need grow lights?

[lovely_star]

I place a plank across the raised bed, on the edging of the bed, so that it doesn't touch the ground. My beds are 4 feet wide but I'm short and have trouble working in the middle comfortable. This way I have a board suspended across and I can place a foot or knee on it and work in the middle easily. They are not secured - I move them around as needed.

this is a pretty smart idea...any pics?

[shadowsmom]

I place a plank across the raised bed, on the edging of the bed, so that it doesn't touch the ground. My beds are 4 feet wide but I'm short and have trouble working in the middle comfortable. This way I have a board suspended across and I can place a foot or knee on it and work in the middle easily. They are not secured - I move them around as needed.

this is a pretty smart idea...any pics?

The garden is covered in snow this morning, but when I do get out there and plant I can take a picture and show you.

[gardenvt]

Maybe it's my age or that I am only 5'4" tall but I am planning my raised beds to be 3' wide. That is an easy reach without disturbing plants or breaking my back.

And I am interested in the soil folks use because these are my first raised beds. I don't have good soil to work with (sandy) so I am having it all hauled in. I had thought about making our own mix (compost, topsoil) but found a local garden center that has a mix.

What do you think about this mix?
48% compost, 33% top soil, sand and peat

[DoubleDogFarm]

What do you think about this mix?
48% compost, 33% top soil, sand and peat

I would like a higher number in the soil department. With that much compost, peat is not needed.

What type of top soil is it? It maybe silty already.

What is your native soil like? Maybe just a load of compost is needed.

Eric

[ThePepperSeed]

Hey guys I plan on starting my seeds indoors this weekend. I've been researching seed starting on the forum and I'm wondering if I will need grow lights? None of the gardening books I've read so far mention anything about grow lights. I thought I'd just sit seedlings in a sunny area. Apparently this might not be enough. I plan on starting my cabbage, tomato, lettuce, celery, radicchio, kale, peppers, rosemary, herbs (basil, parsley, oregano, thyme) broccoli, flowers (marigold, lavender, petunias). Do all of them need grow lights?

You'll probably at least want to use some florescent lights - 1 or 2 cheap 4 foot fixtures may do the trick depending on how much you're plating.

[lovely_star]

Hey guys I plan on starting my seeds indoors this weekend. I've been researching seed starting on the forum and I'm wondering if I will need grow lights? None of the gardening books I've read so far mention anything about grow lights. I thought I'd just sit seedlings in a sunny area. Apparently this might not be enough. I plan on starting my cabbage, tomato, lettuce, celery, radicchio, kale, peppers, rosemary, herbs (basil, parsley, oregano, thyme) broccoli, flowers (marigold, lavender, petunias). Do all of them need grow lights?

You'll probably at least want to use some florescent lights - 1 or 2 cheap 4 foot fixtures may do the trick depending on how much you're plating.

Is there a cheap way to do this? I'm already way over budget with starting this garden. I've been to growers sights and the lights are pretty expensive.

[cynthia_h]

These aren't grow lights; they're normal fluorescents. They hang just a few inches above the seedlings and are mounted on chains so that, as the plants grow, the light can be raised so that its distance from the top of the seedlings remains constant.

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

[Des_WA]

I just expanded my lights for seedlings last week, it's not expensive at all.

Go to your local big box store, pick up the light ballast (fixture) for 2 flourescent lights - Lowes had one for $9 and it included hooks and two short chains.

Pick up a pair of fluorescent lights of the type that your ballast uses (in my case they were T12 bulbs) - around $5-8. Look for bulbs with the highest light output in your price range - the biggest number listed next to lumens. If you buy the bulbs in the 10-packs they're often cheaper per bulb, but if you need to spend less money just get the 2-pack for your ballast.

DON'T buy the specialty grow lamps or greenhouse lights they try to sell you, I have done just fine with any old type of fluorescent with high intensity.

[Tonythegardener]

I really see this as a non problem. The plants could not care less where they grew just as long as they can get nutrients, water, carbon dioxide and light.
Raised beds are just important to human beings because they make gardening easier on the back. You can reach across and till the soil more easily. But it is neither here not there for the plants.

[rainbowgardener]

well yes and no. My soil (where I have any) is hard clay and rock. I would have to work very hard at amending it to make it as conducive to plants as the nice loose enriched topsoil in my raised beds and to make it drain. It does make a difference to the plants.

[gixxerific]

well yes and no. My soil (where I have any) is hard clay and rock. I would have to work very hard at amending it to make it as conducive to plants as the nice loose enriched topsoil in my raised beds and to make it drain. It does make a difference to the plants.

If I may RBG

I have, as I said, regular beds. They are theoretically not raised beds due to them not having official sides. But than again they are in theory raised beds due to all the hard work I have done amending them. I have added so much manure and compost to them they are really getting to be quite impressive. You can tell exactly where my additions have come in from year to year. The first year section is something you would be amazed with I know I am. The ground I started with and what I have now is so far from the original. There is no need for tilling you can just dig your hand in and you are good to go.

As you said though this is a work in progress but this could be a great year and if not this one soon my garden will be as great as my last garden.

So my question just what exactly is a raised bed. You can see my soil level is raised it is being held in somewhat by my fencing. So essentially I have a raised bed but with mine comes the problem of compaction since I don't have separate beds that I can walk around and not on. So mine is not perfect but it will grow if I can keep the bugs and disease out of it this year.

Just thinking aloud here.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Like I have said in another forum, we may need to work on definitions.

Raised beds: Improved soil higher than the native soil.

Boxed beds. Raised beds encased in wood filled with improved soil.

Something like this.

Eric

[rainbowgardener]

Or I would say

raised rows - Augmenting the native soil by adding on to it, rather than tilling stuff in, often by putting the topsoil from the paths between onto the rows as well as soil amendments. Not boxed, may only be a little deeper than native soil, rows can be as long as the amount of room you have, though usually still no more than 3-4' wide for reaching in to, sometimes narrower than that.

raised beds - Framed /boxed in beds. Can be as deep as you want/ need them to be, usually 3-4' wide and anywhere from 4 -10' long (construction and materials tending to limit the length). Framed in wood, concrete, brick, or whatever durable material is handy.

I think most of the benefits that have been noted for raised beds apply to raised rows. If I had more land to garden that's what I would do.

[The Helpful Gardener]

If those are the new choices then I am an in-ground, raised-row kinda guy! The other way is nice and all, but I get more surface area and less cost my way...

HG

[DoubleDogFarm]

Yep, I'm with you HG.

First, You don't have to worry about the wood rotting, harboring bugs and or wood treatments. Even treated lumber rots eventually.

Second, Raised rows are usually slightly domed. So a 3ft wide raised row, probably has about 4ft of plantably surface.

Eric

[soil]

I hate raised beds but whats wrong with decomposing wood? I can see decomposing treated wood as a bad thing but regular wood as a benefit.

[DoubleDogFarm]

but regular wood as a benefit

IMO a very expensive slow release soil amendment, don't you think.

Eric

[soil]

IMO a very expensive slow release soil amendment, don't you think. Laughing

Eric

a slow release, water and nutrient retaining, fungi feeding material. I see that as a benefit.

[DoubleDogFarm]

Ok


Eric

[The Helpful Gardener]

Rotting wood requires N to feed the process. Competes with plants to the point of lock-up if there is too much wood...

A little wood, s'allright... too much...?

HG

[DoubleDogFarm]

and Ok again.

Eric

[Tilde]

You can plant tomatoes, even the indeterminate that continue to grow, in a one-sqaure-foot spacing in a raised bed if you stake it or use strings to twist the tomato up its length.

Spacing:
1 plant per square foot
broccoli, brussels sprout, cabbage, cauliflower, eggplant, head lettuce, tomato, peppers,

4 per square foot:
leaf lettuce, parsley, Swiss chard, turnip,

9 per sq foot:
bush beans, spinach

16 per sq foot:
beets, carrots, radishes, leeks, onions,

If you trellis along the north side of your boxes:
cukes are 4 per sq foot,
melons are 4 per sq foot,
peas and pole beans are 8 per sq ft in two rows side by side planted 3" apart.
summer squash 3 in a space 4 ft long by 1 ft wide.

zucchini which does not vine takes 9 sq ft (3 across and 3 wide)

A very succint summation. Thank you.

OT: I used to have boxed beds (the neighbors' trees loved it, I've pulled up lots of volunteer trees and shared them with friends/family) and now I'm sqft in sqft containers.

[Vorguen]

I was thinking of making raised beds with no bottom so that the roots of the plants could go through the soil and continue into the earth as far as they need to

[The Helpful Gardener]

As you should.

Raising the bed helps to eliminate some restrictions to plant growth but nothing works like native soils, even if they are lean or clay or whatever. Biology will migrate both directions...

HG

[Vorguen]

Well I was thinking, if I have raised beds with a lot of compost wouldn't that eventually spread below the raised bed and give nutrients to the rest of the backyard? One reason I might do raised beds is to remember what I plant where, so that I can make sure to do my best attempt at crop rotation


^ will need to research that a bit better first though