raised bed soil issue - Plants Stunted and Yellow

[panhandler]

so I built raised beds for the first time this year and things are not going so well. the beds are constructed out of masonry blocks stacked two high, which makes them about 16" deep I filled them with a soil mix that was 75% organic material and 25% sandy soil thinking that this would be optimal for drainage in the beds. I realized after that this mix was meant to recharge nutrients in native soil and not for use as a bedding mix.

I then raked in 1/2 an inch of composted manure, set my transplants, and mulched lightly with cedar chips.

we had a cool wet april and none of the plants did very wells. everything was stunted and yellow. now it has warmed up (nearing 100 for the last week) and dried out. I didn't water all last week, but my bedding soil was still very wet in the lower 3/4 of the beds. now because of the heat many of the plants that had started to recover from the early wet weather are wilting during the day and I have no idea what to do. I am considering pulling everything out, doing whatever soil ammendments are recommended here, and trying again in a few weeks for a fall harvest. the main thing that is keeping me from doing this is the okra and green beans that still seem to be doing okay (though growing pretty slowly). What does the wisdom of the board recommend.

on a brighter note, I had good luck with strawberries and black berries, my pear tree looks great. and the corn/beans/ squash that I seeded a week ago seem to be doing well.

thnaks,
Brandyn

[731greener101]

After reading Edward C. Smith's book on growing in containers I decided to treat my raised bed(4'x10'x20")as a big container.The idea is to use a soil mix to retain moisture while maintaining drainage.I used 2B potting mix, aged cow manure,and homemade compost.So far this has done very well except for one bed(the new one with possible herbicide contamination).We have gotten very little rain and I am having to water with my rain barrel stash.I peel back the heavy compost/mulch layer every other day to check for moisture and am very pleased with moisture content.As for the yellowing,I think the rain is flushing the nutrients out of your bed.

[hit or miss]

I would suspect the wilting is from the plants not yet having a good root system grown. The yellowing, to me, means the plants are lacking nitrogen. I would consider adding more composted manure and maybe a light source of natural nitrogen fertilizer to get the plants by until the manure begins releasing nitrogen.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm here to learn too!

[garden5]

The cedar chips may be pulling some nitrogen from the soil as they break down.

[panhandler]

I was worried about the cedar chip and nitrogen issue so I have pulled the chips back from the base of the plants and have been spraying a foliar mix of liquid fish/ seaweed/ mollases once a week.

I should have clarified that my main concern was with the seemingly poor drainage from the raised beds. is it normal for the soil to be wet 3-4 inches deep even without any watering or rain for a week?

is it possible that my soil mix had too much organic material and as a result is holding too much water? I know that when the roots stay too wet many plants develope nutrient deficiencies, could this be the cause rather than a lack of available nutrients?

I built the raised beds so that I wouldn't have to worry about drainage issues during the big spring storms we normally get in my area but it seems to have not worked?

are there any soil ammendments ya'll would recommend for better drainage and nutrient uptake (read root development) based on the description of my soil mix here...

Bedding Soil (75/25)
This soil mix provides a healthy dose of fully decomposed compost and soil/sand mixture to help revitalize your existing beds. It is a low-cost alternative to restore necessary organics & nutrients in the beds, and its sand content provides the added benefit of increased drainage.

based on that description I thought drainage issues would be the least of my worries.

thanks

[Tate]

What plants are wiltiing? Cucumbers and squash have a tendency to wilt during peak sunshine when it is 90 and above. Once the sun gets lower in the sky they are fine.

Tate

[panhandler]

the wilting is not the issue that I am most concerned with (a little bit on the squash but also tomatoes). The underlying problem is the soil that is in the raised beds. any suggestions?

[Joyfirst]

If you don't mind spending money on vermiculite(Home Depot has larger bags), then you could add that. although it is hard to do, when you already planted. Vermiculite does both - absorbs water, but also lets excess to drain. Square Foot Gardening book recommends this mix for raised beds :third of vermiculite, third of peat moss and a third of compost from at least 5 different companies(if you use commercial ones, which tend to be made from one or two byproducts and don't have variety of nutrients as home compost does.) I did that when I started gardening-except I admit I reduced vermiculite, because it is so expensive), and it worked very well.

[cynthia_h]

Square Foot Gardening book recommends this mix for raised beds :third of vermiculite, third of peat moss and a third of compost from at least 5 different companies(if you use commercial ones, which tend to be made from one or two byproducts and don't have variety of nutrients as home compost does.)

It doesn't have to be "five different companies"; five different sources is what Mel recommends in his 2005 revision. So in Spring 2008 we purchased some grape-pomace compost, we had some of our own, some organic something from the grape-pomace place (American Soil & Stone or a name like that), and I traded w/my girlfriend 5 gallons of her compost for 5 gallons of mine.

Only four sources, but that's the best we could do with the stringent financial situation we had that year (not that much better now, but a little...). Sometimes swaps/trades can be arranged on FreeCycle, too.

Cynthia H.

Yep, a bad day: confirmed that DH fed Vergil spoiled (!) food for dinner last night; that's why V has had so many episodes of having to go NOW to the back yard today... on DH; Vergil doing his best, that good boy dog

[applestar]

OK. I'm trying to visualize the beds and what there would to be to cause the drainage issue because you're right, the soil being so wet after not being watered/rained is not normal and unhealthy for the plants.

Here's my guess:

If the underlying soil clay?
Did you dig out the clay (and/or till it) and set the blocks below soil level?
This would result in a clay basin with no drainage.

I could be wrong.

I should wait for your response to confirm or deny.... I do have several ideas.

Oh, also, are the blocks concrete -- I.e. porous?

[Kisal]

I garden in containers, but I also have a large yard full of plants. I'm more interested in flowers than veggies, but the same principles apply regarding soil and drainage. Raised beds, I think, are kind of halfway between container and in-ground growing.

I'm curious why the water doesn't drain out between and under the blocks. I've had raised beds with walls made of concrete blocks, and they drained quite well. Did you by any chance line the bed with plastic sheeting? I've seen that done as a way of preventing weeds from coming up from under the bed, and sometimes with the intent of preserving a bed with sides made of wood, but in beds as deep as yours, I don't think it would be necessary. In fact, it would cause exactly the problem you're having.

[panhandler]

here is a picture of the beds...

[img]https://img641.imageshack.us/I/gardenq.jpg[/img]

[img]https://img641.imageshack.us/img641/6759/gardenq.jpg[/img]

the native soil has some clay but it actually drains pretty well, well enough that I had no issues with saturated soil last year when planting directly in it. the beds might be an inch or two below grade but I would have thought that the gaps between the concrete blocks would be enough to allow decent drainage. I was thinking that the settling of organic material (I suspect a significant amount of peat but I am not sure) might have created a really dense layer that holds too much water. when I remove the blocks and look at the soil profile this is what it looks like to me. If this is the case what soil amendments would be good to fix this problem?

if it is an issue that I have created a clay basin what should I do to fix that?

thanks,
Brandyn

[Kisal]

I don't know that there's much that can be done at this point, since all your plants are in. You might try to water very sparingly, so there isn't enough to add much to the moisture in the deeper layer of soil. Basically, just dampen the surface down to about 4 or 5 inches. Eventually, the bottom layer of soil should dry out a bit.

The alternative would be to gently remove all the plants into containers, being careful to take a good sized root ball with each one. Then, mix a lot of perlite and sand into the soil, making sure to thoroughly incorporate it into the lower level that is holding too much moisture. In other words, stir it up really well. Once that's done, replant your plants into the raised bed.

[panhandler]

Thanks for all the responses. Applestar, if in fact I have created a clay basin, is there any way you know of to repair this without completely deconstructing the beds?

looking at the soil profile tend to think that soil mix I had was too high in large particle organic material that has compacted and is now holding a lot of water. would it be better to allow the worms and microbes to do there thing and eventually balance out the soil? or should I consider deep mixing green sand or perlite (as suggested above) this winter? I imagine everyone has differing opinions on this depending on their gardening style, but I would be particularly interested in someone who has gone through a similar problem.

thanks

[applestar]

My idea would be to create conditions to disrupt the clay walls of the basin.

‣ Diagonally plunge garden fork into the soil along the perimeter under the cinder blocks
‣ Also loosen the pathway soil by plunging the garden fork as far as it goes (stand on it) Don't dig/lift, just wiggle or loosen the soil a bit and pull the fork back out.
- Lay cardboard on the surface of the paths, then mulch (straw, wood chips, grass clippings/pulled weeds -- you're essentially sheet mulching the paths. Doing this REALLY attract the worms. In my garden, the worms are followed by moles and they'll soon tunnel into the rich raised bed soil, punching holes in the clay basin walls. If you don't have little mole helpers, earthworms will do the tunneling as well, and in clay, their tunnels are semi-permanent. If you have half finished compost, put some under the cardboard. If you have half finished compost with worms in it, that's even better.
‣ If there's any slope to your yard, you could loosen the soil under the blocks at the lowest point, then, using the garden fork, fracture the soil into a drainage channel/leach field to direct the excess water away.
‣ Plant DEEP rooted plants like daikon radish, carrots and tall semi-woody plants like sunflower, corn, okra, etc. along edge(s) of the beds. In the fall, DON'T pull up the roots but just cut the plants at soil level to leave the roots to decompose in the soil and open up root-shaped channels.