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applestar
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Re: Bee Garden

SO FUNNY that you are asking about the Buttonbush.
I took these photos for you this morning. :D
Bees are all over the Buttonbush
Bees are all over the Buttonbush
I have a local bumblebee nest in my garden and honeybees are visitors, but you get the idea. :wink:

I also took a new updated photo of the RainBog Garden since the Buttonbush and other flowers are now in bloom, and included my "Wildflower" bed across the path in the collage.
image.jpg
A second Swamp Milkweed started to grow here, I'm afraid the tall gorgeous purple one is likely the invasive Purple Loosetrife, and more Cardinal flower has sprung up from seeds I scattered last fall. The other purple flower is Summer/Garden Phlox (I have a paler purple one and a white one in the drier part of the RainBog garden.) Originally this bed started with the red Monarda "Jacob Klein" in the bottom left corner.

Ugh! I tried to move that bamboo stake so it wouldn't be in the picture, but I disturbed a big carpenter bee (almost IMPOSSIBLE not to disturb the bees if you try to move anything) and she chased me :roll: They're not aggressive enough to sting, and typically will foreheadbutt you in warning if agitated, but they do buzz and fly in your face. :roll:

Rairdog
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I just got back from the river bank. I took a bunch of Buttonbush cuttings and poked along the bank in front of house. I also put some in my AP beds since they are always wet. I read the summer cuttings will root in 3 to 6 weeks. After digging around the yard the last few days I think it's too dry. Such a cool plant so I will try and spread it around.

The swamp milkweed I took a pic of is the only one I can find. I will spread it around also when seeds are ready.

The neighbor lady that gave me the last batch had a bunch of Phlox but it was taking over so I passed. She just sold her house and is moving. I asked if there was any plants that I could separate and bee friendly. It was an education.

Here is another she gave me. Lemon balm?
Image

Another riverbank plant ID needed.
Image

lily51
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I just came in from the garden,and was going to start a thread about attracting bees. What a great idea for a garden. Lots of good ideas here. I have one more to add... My blue globe thistle is covered with honeybees, some bumble bees and a few swallowtail butterflies.
I started it from seed in the greenhouse 2 years ago, and it is now 4 1/2' tall. The critters were not overly attracted to it until the blossoms matured into their beautiful dark blue color.
I mark it in the spring by surrounding it with bricks so my husband doesn't remove it, mistaking it for a weed.
Thanks for the photos, too. :D

Rairdog
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lily51 wrote:I just came in from the garden,and was going to start a thread about attracting bees. What a great idea for a garden. Lots of good ideas here. I have one more to add... My blue globe thistle is covered with honeybees, some bumble bees and a few swallowtail butterflies.
I started it from seed in the greenhouse 2 years ago, and it is now 4 1/2' tall. The critters were not overly attracted to it until the blossoms matured into their beautiful dark blue color.
I mark it in the spring by surrounding it with bricks so my husband doesn't remove it, mistaking it for a weed.
Thanks for the photos, too. :D

Thanks, I've been looking for a thistle that wasn't invasive.

I like photo's too. I have five bars this big after 9 days and a small comb they're working.
Image
Here is my queen with a green dot at lower left.
Image

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Lindsaylew82
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Every day when I walk out to my garden, I have to watch my step! There are bees, honey bees mostly, all over the lawn! We have mostly white and red clover in our yard. I'd say to infiltrate your grass with clover. For every foot or so of clover, we see 1-5 HONEY bees. I'm unaware if anyone here keeps an actual hive. They are non-aggressive. We also have a pretty large bumble bee population! They seem to really enjoy the oregano, sage, bee balm, and basil. They go NUTS over pumpkin, squash and cucumber flowers. ( Applestar, my bumbles get lazy, too! I think they just get too hot and sit there and wait for cooler temps! Or maybe they get Dewey and then must dry off?)

Eta:
Carpenter bee males are the bombers. They think you might be a potential mate and that's why they act aggressively and hover. They are incapable of stinging, but will harass the junk out of you, especially if you are sunning on the deck with a yellowish Colored bathing suit. The female can sting, but only will if you get to messing with their nesting hole...

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rainbowgardener
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Rairdog wrote:I was at moms today doing some house-sitting/chores while she is off gambling. I don't know what most are so I just followed the bees.

I got a chunk of this....honeybee on it. Smells like lavender idk.
Image
And butterfly
Image


They all look bee friendly and grow in manageable patches. Let me know what you think.
I don't think anyone ID'd this one for you. It is anise hyssop, aka licorice mint. It is as you have seen a very good bee and butterfly plant. It is also very nice in herbal tea blends.

Susan W
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Indeed a good thread! As mentioned elsewhere, this is the year of the bumblebee for me, honey bees not so much even though neighbor has a hive. We did see some of hers on the Russian Sage in a front area by the curb. I also get some small bees, perhaps native bees, and they are partial to the sunflower (I have cucumber leaf, native to gulf coast, branching, smaller flowers).

Something to keep in mind for bees and butterflies, birds is diversity. Different colors (reds, yellows, purples, whites) and shapes (daisy type, trumpet, spike etc). Also it is good to have things blooming from frost to frost. With perennials can be a challenge, as some have a 6 week bloom cycle. A few easy annuals can fill in very nicely and add that burst of color, such as zinnias and cosmos.

If you are in 7 or warmer, I suggest Mexican sage. This is huge for me, dies back in winter. It has purple salvia- spike blooms late in season, lat Aug-Oct. When it starts to flower, it's the signal for south flying hummingbirds and monarchs.

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DDMcKenna
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ElizabethB wrote:Also include dill, buddleia (butterfly bush), red penta , brown shrimp plant and cat whiskers. Plants that are attractive to bees are also attractive to butterflies and humming birds. Honey suckle and coral trumpet vines on a fence. Not all of these plants will be perennial in you region. Harvest seeds for next year.

Dill is an annual herb. A wonderful addition to lots of recipes and the host plant for the black swallow tail butterfly. Give the buddleia lots of room. It will easily mature at 5'x5'. Not all pentas are attractive to bees, butterflies and humming birds. They are generally labeled butterfly/humming bird penta. When planted in the ground the brown shrimp plant will sprawl. It is not as pretty as other shrimp plants but it has a lot of very sweet nectar. Cat whiskers need more shade than sun. Tuck them in where larger plants will provide shade.

In my mind's eye I can envision a lush garden of very diverse plants. Create paths through the garden using a very thick layer of pine straw. 12" is good. It will be a little unsightly at first but will quickly pack down. In the corner have a surprise sitting area. A space covered with pine straw and a bench for contemplation of your garden and your garden guest.

Bees, butterflies and humming birds all need fresh water. Include humming bird feeders and bird baths. A bird bath can be as simple as a 24" clay pot saucer set on the ground or on a stump.

I love your vision.

Good luck
That sounds like an awesomely beautiful garden that you have described I would love to build something like that, but we have these darn rodents! It seems like millions of them. Some people call them cute little squirrels but they are everywhere and trying to put out a birdfeeder that the squirrels can't figure out how to get to is a talent I haven't achieved yet. My wife has tried several times, but those darn creatures are so inventive that you can't help but watch their amazing acrobatics. It usually takes them less than an hour to empty a birdfeeder.

lily51
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Lindsaylew82 wrote:Every day when I walk out to my garden, I have to watch my step! There are bees, honey bees mostly, all over the lawn! We have mostly white and red clover in our yard. I'd say to infiltrate your grass with clover. For every foot or so of clover, we see 1-5 HONEY bee
I remember as a kid running outside all summer in bare feet, and always stepping a honey bee, getting stung. Yards seemed to be less manicured then, had lots of clover that bees love. There was no lawn care companies, at least none the average person used. Maybe bees have lost part of this clover, more diverse lawn habitat that was more prevalent 50-60 years ago.

Rairdog
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lily51 wrote:
Lindsaylew82 wrote:Every day when I walk out to my garden, I have to watch my step! There are bees, honey bees mostly, all over the lawn! We have mostly white and red clover in our yard. I'd say to infiltrate your grass with clover. For every foot or so of clover, we see 1-5 HONEY bee
I remember as a kid running outside all summer in bare feet, and always stepping a honey bee, getting stung. Yards seemed to be less manicured then, had lots of clover that bees love. There was no lawn care companies, at least none the average person used. Maybe bees have lost part of this clover, more diverse lawn habitat that was more prevalent 50-60 years ago.
Nobody sprays or pays for grass maintenance in my neighborhood that I know of. There is white clover in all their lawns right now. The red clover is supposedly too long for a honeybees tongue to reach. They do eat the crimson clover.

Rairdog
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DDMcKenna wrote:
ElizabethB wrote:Also include dill, buddleia (butterfly bush), red penta , brown shrimp plant and cat whiskers. Plants that are attractive to bees are also attractive to butterflies and humming birds. Honey suckle and coral trumpet vines on a fence. Not all of these plants will be perennial in you region. Harvest seeds for next year.

Dill is an annual herb. A wonderful addition to lots of recipes and the host plant for the black swallow tail butterfly. Give the buddleia lots of room. It will easily mature at 5'x5'. Not all pentas are attractive to bees, butterflies and humming birds. They are generally labeled butterfly/humming bird penta. When planted in the ground the brown shrimp plant will sprawl. It is not as pretty as other shrimp plants but it has a lot of very sweet nectar. Cat whiskers need more shade than sun. Tuck them in where larger plants will provide shade.

In my mind's eye I can envision a lush garden of very diverse plants. Create paths through the garden using a very thick layer of pine straw. 12" is good. It will be a little unsightly at first but will quickly pack down. In the corner have a surprise sitting area. A space covered with pine straw and a bench for contemplation of your garden and your garden guest.

Bees, butterflies and humming birds all need fresh water. Include humming bird feeders and bird baths. A bird bath can be as simple as a 24" clay pot saucer set on the ground or on a stump.

I love your vision.

Good luck
That sounds like an awesomely beautiful garden that you have described I would love to build something like that, but we have these darn rodents! It seems like millions of them. Some people call them cute little squirrels but they are everywhere and trying to put out a birdfeeder that the squirrels can't figure out how to get to is a talent I haven't achieved yet. My wife has tried several times, but those darn creatures are so inventive that you can't help but watch their amazing acrobatics. It usually takes them less than an hour to empty a birdfeeder.

I have LOTS of squirrels here. They have never been a problem except for an occasional bite in a tomato. I bring in mulch from cleaning customers flower beds and they dig through it for acorns and walnuts. I also have 5 walnut trees and the neighbors have them. I pile them up when in the fall so I can mow and collect leaves for the compost. They eat on them all year. I also have huge Sycamore and maple trees that they eat the seeds from. We don't have rabbits or chipmunks in the hood either. I don't think they like the river bottom land because of flooding.

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rainbowgardener
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[quote="DDMcKenna]

That sounds like an awesomely beautiful garden that you have described I would love to build something like that, but we have these darn rodents! It seems like millions of them. Some people call them cute little squirrels but they are everywhere and trying to put out a birdfeeder that the squirrels can't figure out how to get to is a talent I haven't achieved yet. My wife has tried several times, but those darn creatures are so inventive that you can't help but watch their amazing acrobatics. It usually takes them less than an hour to empty a birdfeeder.[/quote]

you need squirrel proof bird feeders. These are the kind that work best for us:


Image
https://www.a-home-for-wild-birds.com/I'm ... r-5346.jpg

They have the feeder tube inside a heavy wire cage that the birds can get through, but the squirrels can't. We had some for years and the squirrels have never managed to chew through them.

Have you tried these?

But I have lots of squirrels (hence the squirrel proof bird feeders). Other than eating all the birdseed they can get, they don't much bother the garden. Other than eating your bird seed, how do the squirrels keep you from doing a garden? What kind of damage is being done? If you have plants that get eaten down from the top, leaving just a few inches of bare stem, that isn't squirrels, it is woodchucks / groundhogs.

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Lindsaylew82
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Our squirrels will take bites here and there of every fully ripe tomato on the vine! Why we pull them when they're fully blushed. They usually only do so when it's very hot and dry. I wonder if they would leave them alone if provided drinking water. Then there would be more mosquitoes...

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rainbowgardener
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Bird baths or anything else you provide water in, will only become a mosquito breeder if the water is STILL. You can solve that by putting a little fountain in or you can use a water wiggler:

https://www.pricefalls.com/product/API-W ... _campaign=


It is a little battery operated device (or for a bit more $ you can get one with a solar panel) that just wiggles the water enough that mosquitos won't use it.

Image
https://www.austinsouth.wbu.com/download/30145?type=jpg

The battery just keeps the little white things moving and they create ripples in the water.

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Lindsaylew82
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Doesn't creep out the birds?

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rainbowgardener
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Nope, it is very quiet and only the little white things move. Birds like moving water.

Rairdog
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Mom told me these were Maximilian sunflowers and are perennial. She does have a problem with them taking over the space. I have a spot near the old asphalt that might contain them.
Image

I put in more plants last night.

Bee Balm purple
Black Eyed Susan
Lots more Autumn Joy Sedum
Shasta Daisy

With the white powdery mildew problem going around I am going to avoid Phlox and Moranda. I need more grass clipping and some straw bales to finish covering grass. Then I think it will be on hold until the Asters come out and fall seed pods of Milkweed and Goldenrod.

I would like more orange and red type plants if anyone has suggestions. It seem to be dominated with purple/blue with just a few dabs of white and yellow.

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Lindsaylew82
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Bees and hummingbirds and butterflies love poppies! Plus they are SUPER easy to grow!

Ohio Tiller
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Rairdog wrote:
Ohio Tiller wrote:Just wondering why you chose top bar hive over the square types?

It was because I had scrap lumber. I have 9 dollars in a few screws and hinges but everything else was free. They seem easier to manipulate the bars than digging into a langstroth. You don't have to lift 90 lb supers. Viewing window is nice too! I'm not set up to do finger joints for langs. It does make it hard to put a nuc in. Next year I plan to build one that will fit a 5 frame nuc in the front and transition into a TBH. I always have scrap lumber and plywood on hand. Hopefully it will survive the winter.
I have several hives but never tried the top bar I have always wonders how you do a honey extraction from a frame spinning them would destroy the comb.

Rairdog
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Ohio Tiller wrote:
Rairdog wrote:
Ohio Tiller wrote:Just wondering why you chose top bar hive over the square types?

It was because I had scrap lumber. I have 9 dollars in a few screws and hinges but everything else was free. They seem easier to manipulate the bars than digging into a langstroth. You don't have to lift 90 lb supers. Viewing window is nice too! I'm not set up to do finger joints for langs. It does make it hard to put a nuc in. Next year I plan to build one that will fit a 5 frame nuc in the front and transition into a TBH. I always have scrap lumber and plywood on hand. Hopefully it will survive the winter.
I have several hives but never tried the top bar I have always wonders how you do a honey extraction from a frame spinning them would destroy the comb.
I plan on comb honey for personal use. I will just use 5 gal buckets, mash it and a paint filter. I'm not really into it for the honey at this point and I don't see it happening. It's just something cool to watch and the family enjoys the new experience.

Even though I am a total newbie to beekeeping I can dig into the hive with little to no protective clothing and the bees don't seem to mind. I put on gloves, sweats and a headnet that I already had when I remove bars for inspection. I don't even have a smoker and they don't seem to need it. TBH's are just a mellow/cheap way to get into the hobby and help the bees IMO. They just don't seem to mind the inspection compared to what I've seen opening a Lang.

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applestar
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You've got me curious now and am looking up top bar beehives. 8)

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applestar wrote:You've got me curious now and am looking up top bar beehives. 8)
Here are some links. This ones is a little complicated. It can be done much simpler. It is easy to build a simple box. The bars are kinda tricky. I can do whatever you need help with for cost of materials and shipping.
https://www.wasatchbeekeepers.com/top-ba ... vid-bench/

Micheal Bush has lots of good info
https://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

I just started a month ago like I said. I had the scraps and built it around what I had. I found some bees for 120 and I was on my way. It will be pushing it to get a hive ready for winter stores for my hive. I have always wanted to get into it but was afraid of the upfront cost and learning curve. The forums have helped me tremendously and now it's time to pay back what I can. Let me know if I can help.

Here are a couple links for info that helped me.
https://www.beesource.com/forums/forumdi ... Hive-Forum
https://biobees.com/forum/viewforum.php? ... ec62351fc1

Sorry if I posted links and bent the rules!

Susan W
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For red flowers, check out the Cardinal Flower, Lobelia.

I wouldn't think one would need a water mover in a bird bath. The water should be freshened daily, 3 days at most. I just go out with the hose and squirt/spray old water and gunk out, fill with fresh. I have 3 going now, and they stay busy with birds, bees and whatever.

Rairdog
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Lindsaylew82 wrote:Bees and hummingbirds and butterflies love poppies! Plus they are SUPER easy to grow!
I found some tall red perennial poppies. Package says they can be planted May-Aug so I'm going to try a few now and more in the spring. I will try some on trays and others direct sow. I missed the boat collecting orange poppy seed down the road. I will have to order some.

Rairdog
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Susan W wrote:For red flowers, check out the Cardinal Flower, Lobelia.

I wouldn't think one would need a water mover in a bird bath. The water should be freshened daily, 3 days at most. I just go out with the hose and squirt/spray old water and gunk out, fill with fresh. I have 3 going now, and they stay busy with birds, bees and whatever.

I like the Cardinalis. Seeds are going on the list. My mom lives on the lake and the honeybees use her fountains constantly. They like the leaks and drips around the sides. She puts pool chlorine tablets. I have read about neighbors having problems with bees attracted to pools. I guess the favor the clean chlorine water. I will come up with some cheap diy water feature.

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pinksand
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Rairdog wrote: Image
And butterfly
Image
This looks like some type of agastache... maybe 'golden jubilee' or 'purple haze'? I have 'golden jubilee' and although the leaves start out chartrues the color deepens to a standard green as the season progresses in my experience.

I was going to recommend bee balm, so it's nice you were able to get some. The bees also like visiting my stokesia and cleome. Although the cleome is an annual, it reseeds in my garden so it seems like a perennial, but I'm in zone 7 so I'm not sure how it will behave in zone 5.

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pinksand
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I just noticed you mentioned wanting more reds... what about Gaillardia? They're super easy to grow from seed. I don't tend to see lots of bees around mine though :(

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applestar
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Balsam, <br />Zinnia, <br />(Monarda ' Jacob Kline', Zinnia, Phlox), <br />Asclepias tuberosa (Butterflyweed/flower)
Balsam,
Zinnia,
(Monarda ' Jacob Kline', Zinnia, Phlox),
Asclepias tuberosa (Butterflyweed/flower)
Jacob Kline is mildew resistant. Better than Cambridge Scarlet.

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Lindsaylew82
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image.jpg
I noticed bees all over my sunflowers tonight as I pulled in the driveway!

Rairdog
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pinksand wrote:
Rairdog wrote: This looks like some type of agastache... maybe 'golden jubilee' or 'purple haze'? I have 'golden jubilee' and although the leaves start out chartrues the color deepens to a standard green as the season progresses in my experience.

It's Anise Hyssop. I got a pink one also that;s shorter.

I was going to recommend bee balm, so it's nice you were able to get some. The bees also like visiting my stokesia and cleome. Although the cleome is an annual, it reseeds in my garden so it seems like a perennial, but I'm in zone 7 so I'm not sure how it will behave in zone 5.
Thanks, I'll look into them.

Rairdog
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pinksand wrote:I just noticed you mentioned wanting more reds... what about Gaillardia? They're super easy to grow from seed. I don't tend to see lots of bees around mine though :(
I haven't found big enough clumps red or orange/red blanket flowers to separate yet. This past winter slowed them down. I will have some eventually. My mom had to replace a bunch of them.

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applestar wrote:
image.jpg
Jacob Kline is mildew resistant. Better than Cambridge Scarlet.

I have a bunch of Zennia seeds and just picked up some more. I was looking at butterfly weed seeds but I think it was 365 days to bloom. JK looks interesting.

Rairdog
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So much for slowing down and not buying plants! Today I planted and or purchased.

Red Prince Weigalia (might add a couple more for a hedge/wind break)
Yellow Lantana (might not handle my winter)
2 Orange Poppy (they were about dead 2for a buck)
Red Poppy seeds
Robinson Red Mum seeds
Zinnia Fruit Smoothie

I also put down 2 bales of straw. I still have to put the per. seeds in. Too late for Zinnias.

Rairdog
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Lindsaylew82 wrote:
image.jpg
I noticed bees all over my sunflowers tonight as I pulled in the driveway!
I been searching for a clumping false sunflower.

Rairdog
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Update on Bee Garden. All the plants survived transplanting. The Shasta Daisy, Cone Flowers and Black Eyed Susan seemed to suffer but I think they will pull through in the spring. Here are a few shots.....and LOTS OF BEES

This is the mystery weed I never got an ID on. I had a feeling it was wild Aster and boy did it bloom and git big. The yellow jackets and wasps are all over it. There must be 100 at a time. I have contemplated taking out the yellow jacket burrow. They have started messing with my honey bees but they are fending them off so far. I watch them fight at the entrance. The other day I opened the observation window and the honey bees where dragging and pulling apart a yellow jacket on the floor. I have a feeling when the flows ends they will invade and steal honey.
Image

Green Sweat bee
Image

The Anise Hyssop has been the star for the Bumble Bees, Carpenter Bees, Sweat Bees and Honey Bees. It usually has 30 plus on it every time I approach it.
Image

The other Hyysop gets some attention. There is one of my bees on it but blurry.
Image

One of my bees on the Catmint.
Image

One of my bees on the May Night Salvia
Image

This is the Aster I got from a neighbor. She got it from another neighbor. It is all over the neighborhood in bloom. The guy got it from his grandma 20 years ago. The Sedum in the background is doing well also.
Image

Here is the Aster? I got from mom. It has very different leaves and red flowers starting to bloom. The Lantana in the background also took off. I never see bees on it but lots of butterflies.
Image

Short clip of the TB Hive.
[youtudotbe]https://youtu.be/qaHf_lfoBLw[/youtudotbe]

I took all the pics in 10 min just now. It is very active to say the least.

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applestar
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That is so cool! And so rewarding to see them thriving :D
Thanks for sharing. :-()

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rainbowgardener
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Wow!! Terrific! The world needs more of us small scale organic gardeners to keep bees, since the bees in the large scale industrial operations are suffering so much.

Rairdog
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Well I checked for my marked queen and she was gone. I found a new one so evidently they superseded her.
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Meanwhile, I have started many wild flowers and herbs for the coming season. The Button Bush seeds I collected are popping. They went 3-4 weeks with nothing to show. I thought maybe they need light so I placed some more seeds on top this time instead of a 1/8 buried. I covered with saran wrap and set in the warm sun of the GH. The next day all of the deeper ones popped. Evidently they needed a little more heat and humidity to get motivated. Now that I know the seeds are viable I have extras if anyone wants to try them.
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I also have lots of Butterfly Weed started. They are pretty much 100% germination. I was careful to get all of the tap root when up-potting and it looks like they will make it.
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Wild Monarda I collected from family farm. I kinda dropped some of the tiny seeds before covering all the cells. Opps...I know where mama lives to divide up her roots if these don't make it. I'm hoping they will be PM resistant.
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These berries will be going into the Bee Garden: 2m-2f Hardy Kiwi, White Grape, Goji Berry, Gooseberry and Raspberry.
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More to come when they start popping!

Rairdog
Green Thumb
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 4:46 pm
Location: Noblesville, IN Zone 5

My bee swarmed this week. I found them on the neighbors old split rail fence post. It was surrounded by old rose bush and very difficult to get them out. I had no where to put them so I built a new Top Bar hive in about 30 minutes and used some empty bars, a bar of brood and a bar of nectar out of my other hive. I got stung about 5 times. One good one on the forehead and a one on my pinky. I just wear sweats, jersey gloves and a hunting head-net. Most of the time I can get into my hive with shorts, a t-shirt and head-net. I have one been stung once previously. Anyway.....I noticed the arthritis in my hand was much better. I went out this morning and picked a bee up off the ground and stung my elbow. 37 year of swinging a hammer has taken it's toll. It is already feeling better. Call me crazy but maybe there is some truth in BVT. Once a bee hits the ground they are about to die anyway and rarely take flight. Here is a shot of the swarm.

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I must of got the queen in the first few scoops. The girls where fanning pheromones at the entrance fairly quick. The next morning there were some bees still on the post. Within a few hours they were all in the new hive. It was my first swarm. I will probably buy a veil for the next time. Other than that all you need is thick sweats and cheap gloves. I don't have a smoker and never will. A mist of water from a spray bottle sends them back down when I am putting the bars back after an inspection. That makes 2 hives with $120 invested in the first package. I had all the scrap wood, clothing, spray bottle, china brush and pry bar. I have never treated but may try it this fall when all the brood is hatched if I get a high mite count. I did spend some money on sugar last year to kick them off.



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