what kind of chickens?

[rainbowgardener]

It occurred to me, now that we are letting the chickens out into larger area and they have access to more different plants, that I should look up plants that could be toxic to them. Turns out there's quite a list. Many of them are not things that our chickens would ever have access to and some of them are obvious like poison hemlock and jimson weed. But still it made me think.

Things growing in our yard that are likely toxic to the chickens if they get to them: azalea, pokeberry, milkweed, rhubarb leaves, cardinal flower, daffodil, tulip, nicotiana (ornamental tobacco), raw beans, oak leaves and acorns (our yard is FULL of acorns and baby oak seedlings!) If they got into the compost pile, avocado skins and coffee grounds are toxic.

Wow! It makes me glad we have been keeping them relatively confined!

[applestar]

Wow does that mean they would eat poison ivy, too?

[Allyn]

It's good to be aware, but don't get too alarmed. In a lot of the "don't feed" list, there are caveats. For example, some lists will say don't feed them potatoes. Potatoes are fine, but they shouldn't have potatoes that are green. Something in a green areas of the skin doesn't sit well with them. Rather than launch into a whole explanation for each item, the list just says don't feed potatoes. Avocados do contain a toxic fatty acid derivative known as persin. According to the Merck Veterinary Manual (google it and save the link), levels of toxicity vary between the two types of avocados (Mexican and Guatemalan) that grow in California and toxicity also tends to vary depending upon the time of year, so they recommend not giving avocados to animals. I think most of the persin is in the pit and skin. That doesn't mean the chicken will drop dead if she eats a bit of avocado -- some folks do include avocado bits in with kitchen scraps they feed to their chickens -- but more than an occasional bit isn't good for them. A lot of those warnings are like the warnings not to feed chocolate to dogs. Yes, if you regularly feed your dog chocolate, it might affect their eyesight; but an occasional lick of chocolate as a special treat isn't going to make him drop dead.

I let my chickens free-range over an acre of property and even in my garden. I haven't lost one yet to toxicity. That doesn't mean I never will, but the chickens seem to have a certain predilection for things that won't make them sick.....at least they do after trying it the first time.

[rainbowgardener]

RE: " coffee can, sand bucket with you and put them in as you pick them off your plants ...cutworms, hornworms, slugs, those shiny green June beetles you posted about last year.."

Found a baby hornworm on a tomato plant and carried it over to the chicken cage. It was snatched up almost before it hit the ground! I need to check carefully--if there was one, there are likely more.

It is very cool having the grubs and hornworms and stuff transformed from pests to valuable protein for my chickens! I feel so perma-culturey !

PS. I have some wonderful cherry tomatoes ripe now. I will have to look up what variety they are--they ripen to orange. They are very sweet and very tomatoey. I gave the chickens the cut off tops and they loved them.

[rainbowgardener]

This was a picture I posted May 26

They are hard to get pictures of, in a shady area and behind fences. This is a picture I found on line of a Buff Orpington at about the same stage as ours, with just a little bit of comb.

Dorothy (of the Golden Girls) seems to be a little bit ahead of the other two in maturity. So one month later and she is now looking exactly like how they say they will look when they are ready to start laying:


So we put a couple golf balls in each nest box in lieu of practice eggs and are starting to watch for eggs!

The Americaunas are one week younger and are showing very little comb development. But apparently this variety doesn't necessarily ever have a lot of comb/wattles. I need to get pictures of them. They are beautiful and each one different.

[rainbowgardener]

So I finally took some pictures of my actual chickens:

"Robin"

"Quail"

"Hawk"

Most of them together

That's the space between the shed and their coop and run. Their walking around area wraps all the way around the coop/run and is definitely wider on the other side.... If you click to enlarge this picture, you can see "Dorothy" in the front with the most fully developed comb and wattle.

[rainbowgardener]

Just a fun little observation:

Earlier in the season, my chickens had been enjoying lettuce from my garden. They do like their greens! I've given them lots of different things: parsley, carrot tops, wild violets and plantain, etc. But the lettuce is long since bolted and gone to seed. I kept some of it around to re-seed itself and now was pulling it. So I pulled some of the remaining leaves off the lettuce stalk and gave them to the chickens. They took a couple tentative pecks and walked away. Very clearly telling me that lettuce was no good any more!

So they do have something in lieu of taste buds that tells them what is good to eat and what isn't and they won't just eat anything. Nice to know.

[applestar]

[digitS']

....that tells them what is good to eat and what isn't and they won't just eat anything. Nice to know.

Don't put too much faith in their little, bird brains:

"Jim Micinilio, DVM, ... X-ray reveals a large quantity of metallic objects impacted in a pet chicken’s gizzard.

“[The chicken] recovered uneventfully and within a week, was back to following the owner around the yard.

"One hundred and fifteen objects including several screws, nails, wire, pieces of glass, linoleum and a bullet were found in that little chicken … " (link)

I had a chicken die the afternoon my backyard flock discovered and sampled the rhubarb plants.

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

Thanks for the warning.

I just thought it was interesting that they could tell the difference between young lettuce and bolted lettuce and clearly did not like the latter.

But for the time being at least, they are still staying in their 150 sq ft enclosure (and at night in their 50 sq ft coop). If they did get out, our rhubarb is fenced in.

But yes, some people have told us we can trust the chickens not to eat stuff that is harmful to them. I'm not ready to do that...

[rainbowgardener]

I keep finding more about what they like and don't like. They turned up their beaks at broccoli leaves, but loved mushroom trimmings! Who would have guessed chickens like mushroooms?

[applestar]

It sounds like they are getting the full course! They are going to lay lovely eggs, I can tell.

[rainbowgardener]

Yes, I also give them marigold petals which is supposed to be high in vitamins and anti-oxidents and have antibiotic properties and help with giving very yellow yolks.

Incidentally, the marigold petals are supposed to be very good for people, lots of medicinal qualities, used topically, in salads, or infused for tea.

[rainbowgardener]

Our first home grown egg!! The light bleaches it out a bit. It is actually light brown. That's a teaspoon next to it, so you can see it is smaller than usual and more pointed. I hear that is typical when they first start laying. We are egg ladies!

I'm pretty sure I know which chicken laid it. It is brown, so it is from one of the Golden Girls (Buff Orpingtons). Dorothy is noticeably more mature as far as comb and wattle development, so it is presumably her. But I would think that means the others aren't too far behind. The Golden Girls are 21 weeks now and the Ameraucanas are 20.

Yay!

Incidentally, it was actually in one of the nest boxes. How do they know that is where they are supposed to lay them?

[applestar]

Clever girl! How wonderful. I don't know why but *I am* excited.

[Allyn]

Yay for the first egg! That's awesome and always exciting.

That was good of her to lay it in the nest box. It isn't unusual to find the first egg outside by the water or the feeder as she'll waddle around wondering what the strange pressure is in her backside and then out pops a surprise egg. Chickens instinctually want to lay in a spot that is a bit private. Maybe she felt the pressure and just wanted a private spot to be separated from the others while she dealt with it; and then, surprise, it was an egg. You may still find an egg outside as each pullet has her first lay.

If you haven't already, make sure they have free-choice oyster shell available from now on.

[rainbowgardener]

We have been giving them little bits of oyster shell. But I was wondering about how best to give it to them. Sometimes I just mix it in to their food. If I try giving it to them in a separate bowl or something, it seems to mainly get tipped over and trampled into the ground.

Also they always say NOT to give it to them until they are laying. So far only one of the six is laying, although presumably the others won't be more than two or three weeks behind. Is it a problem if the the ones that aren't laying yet get some?

[digitS']

I don't think so. It may be that the pullets will eat it if there is no grit available and they feel the need for some. Otherwise, I believe that it is just a matter of craving the calcium.

That's where I have trusted their inclinations on what to eat.

Wild chickens do not lay the number of eggs anything close to what our domestic breeds do. Certainly, a layer producing 200 to 300 eggs/year has a massive need for calcium to make up those shells. Laying feed has it and a non-laying pullet has no need for so much. I know that some folks with a rooster in the laying flock will provide some separate, low calcium feed for him and say that doing so extends his life.

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

48 hrs later the second egg was waiting for us. It is the same length, but rounder, shaped more like a regular egg. She is making progress!

The chickens can fly over their picket fence, though they don't do it very often. Usually they land themselves just outside and then start trying to get back in. This morning I was working on turning compost pile, so standing at least 15 feet away. "Hawk" flew out of the enclosure and all of the way over to me. I really think she was curious about what I was doing (or maybe interested in the fact that I was exposing all kinds of pill bugs, BSF larvae, and a few earthworms.... Maybe I will throw some in their area.

[applestar]

Did you share the first one or do you now have one each?

[rainbowgardener]

We now have one each, but we are holding out for when we have two each.

Besides I'm finding myself a little reluctant to eat/ destroy them. Seems like they should be preserved or something.

I did put some of the partly finished compost that was writhing with pill bugs and other detritivores into the chicken enclosure. They loved it! Had a great time pecking all the tasty little morsels out from the compost.

[applestar]

Take special photos of each, then make a special collage with photos of the hens ...or...

...when you have the first dozen photos... Shadowbox frame them in dozen oval or circular frames inside of a rectangular one matted with curved corner grey pebbled mat (like an egg carton) and make a commemorative wall decoration.

[digitS']

Open them into a bowl first. There may be blood spots.

Don't be concerned. That first egg or two is quite an event in a chicken's life. There will be lots and lots more!

Soon you will have to be quite imaginative as to what to do with them. BTW, you know how I cleaned my eggs if they needed more than a quick wipe with a wet paper towel? Sandpaper .

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

So we ate our first four eggs for breakfast this morning!!





They were wonderful! You can see and taste the difference, very rich and flavorful and darker colored.

[rainbowgardener]

So we have started letting them out of their enclosure a little. Yesterday was the first time:



They really didn't do much exploring the yard, because they found the compost piles and that was like chicken heaven! They just stood there and did scratch and peck. Did a good job of scattering and mixing.

One interesting observation: they do remember things. Yesterday it took them awhile to get brave enough to come out once we opened the gate and then it took them awhile to find the compost piles. Today as soon as I opened the gate they marched right out and headed straight for the compost piles.

I have three piles: one that is mostly finished, that I am letting settle and finish, a new one that I just started piling a few days ago, and a pile that is just excess fall leaves waiting to be used for mulch or as a compost brown and in the meantime mouldering. The mostly finished one is in the middle and it is the richest with earthworms, pillbugs and detritovores. They all congregated there and just worked and worked on it. I decided they were reducing the biological activity of the pile. So today I changed it from a three sided bin to four sided, so they couldn't get in easily. They still went right to it and walked all around it and stuck their heads in through the lattice. But eventually they gave up and were quite happy working the other two. I didn't mind so much letting them have the worms and bugs out of those piles.

[Allyn]

I put oyster shell in a little plastic dish hung on the wall of the coop next to the nest boxes. I hang it high enough that the laying pullets and hens can reach it, but small chicks can't get into it. Yours can all have oyster shell now. If you have some pullets laying, the other won't be far behind, so you don't have to wait until they actually produce an egg to let them have oyster shell. It's time for them to start getting more calcium.

Excess calcium (more than what comes in starter or grower feed) is not good for roosters/cockerels and for pullet chicks before point of lay. The extra calcium is hard on their kidneys. Your pullets are on the verge of laying, so you're okay giving them calcium. The one(s) that are laying need it right now.

Yes, they do remember. Chickens are actually pretty intelligent; they're much smarter than people give them credit for.

Blood spots are no concern. No need to treat an egg differently because there might be a blood spot.

[rainbowgardener]

We did not see any blood spots. In the picture is just a generous helping of black pepper.

Thanks for the tip about the oyster shell!

[rainbowgardener]

So we've been getting eggs most days from the one hen since 7/12. Today we got another of the very small, very pointed ones, so I'm pretty sure that means we now have two laying hens. Interesting, the three Buff Orpingtons were all from the same batch, but a pretty significant difference in maturing....

I think I know which one she is (Blanche). She was making a big skwaaky noise before she did it. Rose has yet to start laying. She still does not look as developed in comb and wattles as the other two.

The Ameraucana's are harder to tell. I don't think they ever get much comb and wattle. I see lots of pictures on line like this:

[rainbowgardener]

We are letting them out in their enclosure more and out in the yard more. When they were little chicks the 48 sq ft of coop and wire run seemed like plenty. Now that they are so huge, it does look pretty full of chickens. I never was around chickens before and didn't realize how BIG they get. I keep thinking they are full grown and they keep growing. I need to get some better pictures of them...

[Allyn]

If you look at their vents, you might be able to tell who is laying. The ones that aren't laying yet will have smaller, firmer vents. The ones that are laying might have a vent that looks like... well, like it's had an egg pushed through it; bigger and maybe a little more loose.

[rainbowgardener]

We are now up to three eggs a day, so more eggs than we can use! If all goes well we shouldn't have to buy any more store eggs at least until when the hens slow down for the winter. They are all from the Buff Orpingtons, because they are all brown. The Americaunas are supposed to lay blue or green eggs. The Americaunas are one week younger than the Buffs, but should be close to ready.

We are letting them free range in our backyard more (they LOVE the compost piles). But so far it still means that the chickens can be in the yard or the dogs, but not both. We are still working, when we take the time, on training the dogs, which is sitting with the dogs on short leashes while the chickens walk around. The dogs are getting pretty good about that and some of the time will just lie down and relax.

[rainbowgardener]

So today we got four eggs! But as far as we know we still only have three laying hens. The eggs are all brown shelled. We have been told that the Ameraucanas will produce blue or green shelled eggs. Is it even possible for three hens to lay four eggs in a day?

[digitS']

I believe that I have read that it is possible. It's far more likely that one or more of the Ameraucanas is laying a brown egg.

Hens of non-commercial breeds usually have 24+ hour cycles. Still, they are highly productive compared to their wild ancestors. They are laying "clutches" of eggs and will cease to lay to begin the setting (incubation) process. Laying breeds cannot seem to get to that without being compelled to begin laying another clutch. Nevertheless, they have short breaks by skipping a day. Those with a normal longer than 24 hour cycle will probably lay a little later in the morning until it's early afternoon for them. Then, the cycle is briefly interrupted as hens tend not to lay late in the day. Chickens are strongly influenced by daylight or artificial lighting.

Newly laying pullets are "off schedule" at times, however.

Steve

[rainbowgardener]

I believe you are right. We found one of the Ameraucanas in a nest box with a (brown) egg. Looking it up, I think that means it is not a pure bred Ameraucana. The pure bred ones, which you likely can only get from a breeder, do lay the blue eggs, but otherwise not necessarily. Too bad, we were looking forward to the blue eggs, but oh well. They are all the same inside the shell...

[rainbowgardener]

We continue to get four eggs most days. Not sure if all six of our hens are laying yet or not.

We let them out to free range our backyard a couple times a day. (The dogs and the chickens alternate who gets to be out in the yard! ) They love it! When we come to let them out, they all line up right by the door squawking to be let out. At first they stayed all clustered up together and didn't go far. But now they have gotten more comfortable with it and are exploring the whole yard and spreading out more.

We've gotten more comfortable with it too, so we leave them out sometimes when we aren't out there with them. They could fly over the fence if they wanted to, but so far they have shown no inclination.

It gives me a quite irrational amount of pleasure to see our backyard with six hens walking around in it, doing their little chicken dances, scratching, pecking, waddle/run/half-fly, etc. When we were thinking about this, I was just thinking about eggs/ producing our own protein. I didn't know I would get attached to them and that they were so adorable!

They learn routines pretty quickly. At first we had to round them up and herd them back in. Now when they've been out for awhile and see us coming, they hustle their fluffy butts back to their compound all on their own.

[rainbowgardener]

Sigh...

I've been trying and trying to get a third planting of corn started and I guess it is not destined to happen. The bed I've been planting corn seeds in is new this year and is just off the south end of our deck. When we started free ranging our chickens, I put fencing around three sides of it. That worked fine for awhile.

I just a couple days tried one last time to plant corn. The chickens who are these days much braver about exploring the whole yard, figured out how to get into the bed by going under the deck and getting into it from the (unfenced) deck side. They ate every corn seed out of it, even though the seeds were planted an inch deep and covered over and patted down. Somehow the chickens had no trouble finding them. I tried shooing them out, but there are more of them than me and I couldn't get to the bed unless I took some of the fence down (meaning the chickens could go out one side and in the other) or crawled under the deck, which I wasn't willing to do. So I gave up and just let my corn seed become chicken food.

I will wait a couple weeks and start planting cool weather stuff again. I do have lots of beans and squash coming on and the second planting of corn still ripening.

[applestar]

Aw bummer! At least you'll "get the corn back" as eggs!

[rainbowgardener]

So I had one of the garden beds with the netting opened up so I could weed it out and plant peas along the edges.

I am letting the tomato plants hang in there, though there isn't much left of them after removing all the septoria. The edges had spinach earlier in the year. There's one pepper plant in the middle of the front edge and one at the short end and some basil at the other short end.

The chickens decided to help me get the soil ready. Nature's little rototillers! After they were done, I chased them out, planted the peas and then put the netting back quickly, before they could eat the peas.

Incidentally, I used up the rest of the finished compost from the pile I've been using, getting this bed ready. So I started piling new stuff into that bin and getting the other one ready to just settle and finish. I poked a couple holes down into that one with a stick, just for aeration and realized it was quite hot down in it! My no-work, just add things as they come along compost piles don't usually heat up very much. But with lots of chicken poop in it, it burns hotter and cooks faster.

[applestar]

They are pretty! No grubs in that bed to worry about now I bet.

[rainbowgardener]

We now finally have all six hens laying, though so far we have not had more than four eggs in one day.

It turns out that the last hen to start laying must be a pure bred Ameraucana because:

The pure bred Ameraucana lay those blue green eggs. The other two we have lay light tan eggs and the Buff Orpingtons lay brown eggs (those are both brown ones in the picture, I didn't manage to include one of the tan ones).

The blue one is smaller, because she just started laying. They always lay smaller eggs at first.

Who is starting to want their own chickens? It is easier and more rewarding than I expected. We spend no more than an hour a day on chicken care, often less, and if you get everything all ship-shape one day, you can get away with skipping a day now and then. We have about 48 sq ft of cage including a covered coop with the roost bars and nesting boxes and some covered run and then an open wire run. That is inside a 10 x 15' fenced enclosure. That 150 sq ft is where they spend most of their time. We've been letting them out to free range our backyard for an hour or so twice a day, morning and afternoon. If they weren't going to be able to free range the backyard, it would be better if the enclosure were a little bigger, but 200 sq ft would probably be good enough (for six hens, depending on breed size, etc).