Hi all,
I've been having an issue with some of my pepper plants dying after I transport them as seedlings to their new pots. I've grown multiple habanero plants and I'm working on a Carolina Reaper plant at the moment. (I also had a tomato plant do something similar, though I didn't start it in a seed starter, just directly in the pot. And I don't recall if it had completely died out.)
So here's a quick timeline:
Start the seeds in peat pellets in a small plastic greenhouse over a warming pad.
After I get a few sprouts doing pretty well, I'll select a few that seem to be the best of my options, then transplant them to their own pot.
Once the plants get into the new pot, they start growing quite well.
After some time (if I remember correctly, the plants are usually about 1-1/2 feet tall when they start running into trouble.) the leaves start turning yellow and eventually they fall off. Sometimes the plants might have a few buds or even some peppers starting to grow then. For the most part, any peppers that have already started continue to ripen, though they are a bit smaller than I'd like.
After the plant seems dead, they'll turn a brown color and look more like a twig sticking out of the ground. At first, it was laziness that led me to just leave the plant where it was. Then, lo and behold, it started sprouting new shoots and leaves. Eventually the first plant grew to be quite larger than I expected and produced a good amount of peppers for me. I've had 3 or 4 other plants do the exact same thing.
I have used seeds from different suppliers, changed my soil (I'm in japan, so I can't clear information on the content of the soil very easily). After the first one, I didn't use any fertilizer for fear I had burned up the roots, still to the same effect.
Thanks for any and all help in advance.
Have a good one!
Sounds like you are underpotted and you don't have enough fertilizer.
You do better with peat pots than I do. I gave up on them a long time ago. I transplant pepper seedligs when they have true leaves (a couple of inches tall) to 3.5 or 4 inch pots. They will stay in the pots for about a month. The seedlings are 6-10 inches by then and some may be starting to flower and I pot them up to gallon pots. With osmocote fertilizer in the potting mix. In gallons they will get their first cycle of fruiting. In early summer I have issues with broad mites or spider Some go into 2 gallons and a couple that I plan to keep long term will go into 20 inch pots. The plants are fed monthly with a slow N fertilizer. Bell peppers do not live long but the frutescens and Chinense species can live a few years. They need to get regular water but the soil must be well drained.
You do better with peat pots than I do. I gave up on them a long time ago. I transplant pepper seedligs when they have true leaves (a couple of inches tall) to 3.5 or 4 inch pots. They will stay in the pots for about a month. The seedlings are 6-10 inches by then and some may be starting to flower and I pot them up to gallon pots. With osmocote fertilizer in the potting mix. In gallons they will get their first cycle of fruiting. In early summer I have issues with broad mites or spider Some go into 2 gallons and a couple that I plan to keep long term will go into 20 inch pots. The plants are fed monthly with a slow N fertilizer. Bell peppers do not live long but the frutescens and Chinense species can live a few years. They need to get regular water but the soil must be well drained.
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applestar
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Hmmm... be sure to follow the growing advice imafan listed since you are both in similar climates.
I want to jump on her mentioning broad mites -- because the symptoms seem similar to what I experienced with my pepper and tomato seedlings last winter to spring/early summer. I originally thought they were all suffering from tomato russet mite (TRM) infestation, but imafan turned me onto broadmites or cyclamen mites as possible culprits.
Once all of the upper growing points in the leaf nodes and stems are destroyed by the mites (graduall russeting/browning and drying up of existing new buds and leaves, mass of brown lumps where new leaves should be growing out -- the plant will give up on the upper stem and activate more buds try to grow new shoots from the base. Tomatoes will typically start from lower two or three leaf nodes (sometimes buried leaf nodes if you tend to bury tomato seedlings deep) while peppers have many more options along the stem as well as stems along the soil-line and below.
With peppers especially, once they lose or start losing leaves, you need to watch out and modify the watering routine or you can overwater them, stressing them and speeding their demise.
For some reason, many of these second-try buds will grow without problems -- I don't spray or treat with insecticides, so I tend to think that by this point, predatory mites and other mite predators have moved in -- both onto foliage and into the soil below. Occasionally, and especially with tomatoes, they will grow as big as they did before, they spiral down in a repeating cycle until the plant is exhausted and gives up for good. I had one determinate tomato variety that would mature one or two fruits, then get taken down, re-grow and repeat -- and did this for maybe 4 times over the course of the growing season.
I want to jump on her mentioning broad mites -- because the symptoms seem similar to what I experienced with my pepper and tomato seedlings last winter to spring/early summer. I originally thought they were all suffering from tomato russet mite (TRM) infestation, but imafan turned me onto broadmites or cyclamen mites as possible culprits.
Once all of the upper growing points in the leaf nodes and stems are destroyed by the mites (graduall russeting/browning and drying up of existing new buds and leaves, mass of brown lumps where new leaves should be growing out -- the plant will give up on the upper stem and activate more buds try to grow new shoots from the base. Tomatoes will typically start from lower two or three leaf nodes (sometimes buried leaf nodes if you tend to bury tomato seedlings deep) while peppers have many more options along the stem as well as stems along the soil-line and below.
With peppers especially, once they lose or start losing leaves, you need to watch out and modify the watering routine or you can overwater them, stressing them and speeding their demise.
For some reason, many of these second-try buds will grow without problems -- I don't spray or treat with insecticides, so I tend to think that by this point, predatory mites and other mite predators have moved in -- both onto foliage and into the soil below. Occasionally, and especially with tomatoes, they will grow as big as they did before, they spiral down in a repeating cycle until the plant is exhausted and gives up for good. I had one determinate tomato variety that would mature one or two fruits, then get taken down, re-grow and repeat -- and did this for maybe 4 times over the course of the growing season.
Imafan, when you say underpotted, does that mean the pots would be too small? The pots I'm using are about 16 inches in diameter and close to the same height.
I don't actually use peat pots. Just the pellets from the green house. Then I transplant them directly into the large pot. I've only had a problem with pests once. I bought a spray bottle of mineral oil and fixed the problem rather quickly. Otherwise though, I don't think there are any pests still hanging around. I'm on the top (4th) floor of my apartment building and there aren't many other buildings around, so I don't have much influence from local soil. The soil I have is purchased from a local home and garden store, so I'm not sure if it's treated for pests or not, or even if that's possible.
There is a chance I was over-watering them now that you mention it. The soil has really good drainage with a layer of potting rocks underneath as well, so I never considered that it would be an issue.
Thanks again for the info!
I don't actually use peat pots. Just the pellets from the green house. Then I transplant them directly into the large pot. I've only had a problem with pests once. I bought a spray bottle of mineral oil and fixed the problem rather quickly. Otherwise though, I don't think there are any pests still hanging around. I'm on the top (4th) floor of my apartment building and there aren't many other buildings around, so I don't have much influence from local soil. The soil I have is purchased from a local home and garden store, so I'm not sure if it's treated for pests or not, or even if that's possible.
There is a chance I was over-watering them now that you mention it. The soil has really good drainage with a layer of potting rocks underneath as well, so I never considered that it would be an issue.
Thanks again for the info!
Even if your soil drains well, you have to be careful. I don't use saucers and my pots sit on the ground. The tomatoes will still try to root in the ground even though they are in 18 gallon pots. I don't like saucers because they can cause the soil to sour if the saucer remains full of water for too long and that causes root rot. The minimum size for a long term pepper is 4 gallons, but I usually use 14-20 inch pots for most of the large and long term plants I have.
The thing about mites are that they are very tiny and and the reason that they are a problem in summer is because they are carried by the dust in the wind. Usually, a good hard rain is what finally controls the invasion. Even 4 floors up, dust can still reach your plant and so can the mites. Spider mites can be seen just barely but it requires magnification to see broad mites so you have to be able to recognize the damage they cause. Puckering and leaf distortion and scarring on the fruit are usually signs of mite damage. Spider mites cause bronzing on the under side of the leaf. Yellowing and leaves falling off can be from pest damage but also watering issues too much or too little will cause similar symptoms. Peppers are also subject to fungal and bacterial diseases and that causes most of the leaf problems I have especially when it is humid. Around here that is most of the time. It is also why I don't grow a lot of bell peppers, with a few exceptions most are not tolerant to bacterial spot or fusarium which is ever present. I had to destroy a bunch of peppers this year because of bacterial spot.
I step my plants up, but it is important that they do not become pot bound. Pot bound peppers get weak and cannot fend off diseases or pests and they need even watering and fertilizer especially once they start fruiting. I need to check the root ball of the peppers frequently to make sure they have not filled the pot. In the 18 gallon pots, I don't have to worry about them anymore since they never out grow that, but I have had some peppers yellow and drop all their leaves because they were so pot bound they could not retain enough water. I have transplanted relatively small seedlings into the large pot without problems, and if transplanting is where your healthy plants start running into trouble, then make sure you plant them at the same level in the pot that they were before or a 1/4 inch higher. Unlike tomatoes, my peppers don't like to go deeper.
The thing about mites are that they are very tiny and and the reason that they are a problem in summer is because they are carried by the dust in the wind. Usually, a good hard rain is what finally controls the invasion. Even 4 floors up, dust can still reach your plant and so can the mites. Spider mites can be seen just barely but it requires magnification to see broad mites so you have to be able to recognize the damage they cause. Puckering and leaf distortion and scarring on the fruit are usually signs of mite damage. Spider mites cause bronzing on the under side of the leaf. Yellowing and leaves falling off can be from pest damage but also watering issues too much or too little will cause similar symptoms. Peppers are also subject to fungal and bacterial diseases and that causes most of the leaf problems I have especially when it is humid. Around here that is most of the time. It is also why I don't grow a lot of bell peppers, with a few exceptions most are not tolerant to bacterial spot or fusarium which is ever present. I had to destroy a bunch of peppers this year because of bacterial spot.
I step my plants up, but it is important that they do not become pot bound. Pot bound peppers get weak and cannot fend off diseases or pests and they need even watering and fertilizer especially once they start fruiting. I need to check the root ball of the peppers frequently to make sure they have not filled the pot. In the 18 gallon pots, I don't have to worry about them anymore since they never out grow that, but I have had some peppers yellow and drop all their leaves because they were so pot bound they could not retain enough water. I have transplanted relatively small seedlings into the large pot without problems, and if transplanting is where your healthy plants start running into trouble, then make sure you plant them at the same level in the pot that they were before or a 1/4 inch higher. Unlike tomatoes, my peppers don't like to go deeper.
Thank you for all the information. I didn't realize how easy it was to overwater the plants and cause root rot. I believe that is the issue I was having. Considering my watering habits, and I have saucers on all of my pots. I thought the drainage rocks at the bottom would be enough to take care of any overwatering I might have done.
As for pests, I've never had any issues other than the one that I could see. Aside from the leaves yellowing and falling off, (now attributed to overwatering, thanks to your help!) I've never noticed any problems or damage to the plants. So I guess I've been fortunate.
I've only got one plant growing right now, so looks like I can safely get myself some new seeds and start again with a little bit more confidence.
Thanks again for your help!
As for pests, I've never had any issues other than the one that I could see. Aside from the leaves yellowing and falling off, (now attributed to overwatering, thanks to your help!) I've never noticed any problems or damage to the plants. So I guess I've been fortunate.
I've only got one plant growing right now, so looks like I can safely get myself some new seeds and start again with a little bit more confidence.
Thanks again for your help!
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rainbowgardener
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You mean drainage rocks at the bottom, inside the pots? Get rid of them!
Putting rocks, gravel, broken pot sherds, or whatever in the bottom of pots "for drainage," always was a myth. It creates a break between layers of different textures, the potting soil and then the gravel. Water will not cross that barrier until the soil layer is completely saturated and can't hold any more.
Just fill your pot with soil.
And never leave water standing in the saucers. Water your plants in the sink, let them drain, and then put them back in the saucers.
Putting rocks, gravel, broken pot sherds, or whatever in the bottom of pots "for drainage," always was a myth. It creates a break between layers of different textures, the potting soil and then the gravel. Water will not cross that barrier until the soil layer is completely saturated and can't hold any more.
Just fill your pot with soil.
And never leave water standing in the saucers. Water your plants in the sink, let them drain, and then put them back in the saucers.
They seem to grow fine with the rocks, as long as I'm not overwatering. I don't plan to empty the pots to remove them, though I will certainly save the money and not buy the rocks next time if that's the case.
As for watering them in the sink. The plants get quite large when they start growing, and moving them inside because of a typhoon is quite a challenge in itself. (sometimes I wonder if I should just leave them outside and let them fare for themselves, but I usually come to my senses after losing a few fruits to the wind) The pots are quite large, and probably weigh more than 35 lbs each. I have seen some slotted pot stands with some casters at the local garden store. I'm going to grab some next time I'm out and remove the coasters.
Thanks again for the help, everyone.
As for watering them in the sink. The plants get quite large when they start growing, and moving them inside because of a typhoon is quite a challenge in itself. (sometimes I wonder if I should just leave them outside and let them fare for themselves, but I usually come to my senses after losing a few fruits to the wind) The pots are quite large, and probably weigh more than 35 lbs each. I have seen some slotted pot stands with some casters at the local garden store. I'm going to grab some next time I'm out and remove the coasters.
Thanks again for the help, everyone.
If you want to, tomatoes and peppers do well in a sip container. There is a water reservoir that should be kept filled but it does have an air gap which is important separating the soil from the reservoir and an overflow drain to keep from over filling. The wick of soil and the roots in the wick are the only parts in direct contact with the reservoir and water moves up the wich into the soil above as needed. The containers can be put on a trolley to make it easier to move but it will help eliminate some of the overwatering issues. If you build a SIP yourself you can actually install a tube that will act as a water level meter so you know how much water is in the reservoir. I would only fill the reservoir to 1/4 inch below the soil separator rather than up to the soil separator to maintain the air gap. I tested mine by filling the empty reservoir in the sun with 5 gallons of water and set my soil separator 1/4 inch above that. In the sun I can see the shadow of the water in the container so it makes it easier to see the water level. Mine does have an overflow valve 1/4 inch below the soil separator so it will still drain off the excess. I used a simple dipstick and it is just marked at the level where the reservoir would be full (5 gallons in my container) and I just look to see where the dipstick is wet to know where the level is.
https://albopepper.com/sips.php
https://www.postoilsolutions.org/documents/Earthbox.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVoxftyZTtg
https://albopepper.com/sips.php
https://www.postoilsolutions.org/documents/Earthbox.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVoxftyZTtg