Why Bring Pepper Plants Indoors for Winter?

[soil]

my peppers just took a nice cold night of mid 20's last night in the greenhouse, still alive and kicking.

[garden5]

Stella, I'm kind of concerned about my ghost pepper seeds, now. I dried them between paper towels for two weeks, but when I went to put them away the other day into envelopes, they looked slightly larger than other pepper seeds, a light brown (instead of yellow) and had tiny open slits in the sides. I can't say all had the slits, and I'm not about to tear open my sealed envelopes to find out .

I did take five of these seeds (all of which had sank right after being removed by the peppers) and put them in water and none of them sank. I hope some of them are still viable.

In contrast, I took some Chile pepper seeds I'd been drying (that had previously sank) and put them in water. They sank instantly.

I'll just have to wait until seed-starting time and see what happens.

[TZ -OH6]

I have had good germination from floating seeds out of seed packs so don't toss them befor trying. It's hard to tell about the discolored seeds. Discoloration of the seeds within the fruit is often due to Alternaria infection that enters throught the flower end of the plant (follows the pollen in). The inside of the pod may or may not be moldy from this, but it can be passed on through the infected seed. I have a big problem with Alternaria infecting the pods of my habanero-types, not so much with the other peppers.

[soil]

I go by color and health of the seed rather than if it floats or not. slightly light and white-ish or a little to dark. they just get tossed into the forest garden as a last chance. I usually get about 90-95% germination.

[garden5]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm definitely going to give them a try....for the price of them I can't afford not to !

Good to know that floaters still sprout. I'm not sure about alternaria, but I do know that the peppers were starting to rot (get mushy) on the plant since they were frost-bitten, so that may have something to do with it.

I'll have to let you all know in about two months how things sprout up .

Getting them to sprout is only half the battle......once they're up I'll have to wait and hope that at least one of the peppers was not cross-pollinated and still breeds true. Well, one thing at a time.

[applestar]

I lost a few more cuttings but I have at least one (or more) survivor per pot in 7 pots. I somehow lost track of which is which Don't you hate that? I'd labeled the first set of cuttings very carefully, but when they died and I took additional cuttings, I was pressed for time and got my cuttings and pots mixed up. The surviving cuttings all have tiny leaves growing on them now. The cuttings without bottom heat and seed starting lights are mostly dead -- there's one that is still barely alive. So I'd say bottom heat and 70+...°F day time ambient temp (as well as misting and ventilated humidity covers until healthy re-growth) are required for pepper cuttings. I probably would have had higher success rate using rooting agent though I'm satisfied with how these are turning out.

The stub pruned potted peppers are also leafing out.

The ones in the garage are STILL out in the garage (along with pineapple sages and tropical milkweeds, pomegranates... a seed grown heliotrope and seedling Japanese maple, too). Still alive, but after todays unseasonable 60°F weather, I'm sure we're going back to normal Dec weather. I did bring in the pots to pot them up in, but didn't get the chance to bring in the compost, garden soil, and sand to make my container mix with.... I also have an email query out to an ag co-op to see if they still have organic potting soil and am waiting on their reply. I'll use whichever turns out to be simpler. If the ag co-op has the bagged soil, I'll drive out and will have the chance to get some good quality holiday plants for gifts, and maybe Espoma Citrus-tone for my citruses and avocados... Maybe for the mango and pineapples(?) as well.

The garage plants have 16 hours of single T-12 shop light on them (sideways due to the "temporary" nature of the set up) -- reflected with a couple of windshield sun reflectors behind them -- and they're not too far from the chest freezer so maybe they're getting a tiny bit of compensating heat from that.

[csvd87]

I harvested the final peppers off my Red Beauty, and all but 1 from a "Long Slim Cayenne" which tastes way too much like Doritos Sweet Chili Heat chips... which is awesome. But anyways, I hacked them down to nothing, they should survive the winter however, they do have enough new growth down low. Now to wait a few more days to harvest my Sweet Cayenne, and prune that way back so I can fit more plants on the top shelf. Yay for winter "Gardening"

[applestar]

It IS a lot of fun, isn't it?

I was just tending the cuttings and wanted to add that under the same set up as the pepper cuttings, about 50% of Pineapple Sage cuttings and 2 out of 6 Lemon Verbena cuttings have survived and are showing new growth.

[stella1751]

I'm now at a 33% survival rate on my cuttings. Two did not survive the rooting process; I over-watered one ; another just cocked up its roots and died. Of the two cuttings left, I have high hopes for only one, the other has begun to fade.

Interesting thought: Every last one wanted to put on buds rather than new leaves. I pinched off the buds on the first two rooted cuttings, thinking that would make them concentrate on root growth. They never did put on leaves. I am letting the last one, the one that looks the best, do its own thing. The blossoms are about to open. I will have to pinch them off if they bloom, but I think peppers want to set fruit and become depressed when thwarted.

Discoloration of the seeds within the fruit is often due to Alternaria infection that enters throught the flower end of the plant (follows the pollen in).

I have always wondered what caused that. Thanks!

[applestar]

Stella, you reminded me -- I stuck a couple of cuttings in the same pot as the Quadrato d'Asti Giallo in a big pot. This is the same plant I overwintered last year in the kitchen window. This one's going to be my experimental perennial bell pepper.

The cuttings were another experiment based on the notion that cuttings rooted in the same living soil foodweb community as the mother plant will have an advantage.

Because the large container of soil supplies elevated humidity around them, I didn't use anything to cover the cuttings, though they did get misted almost every morning, especially on days when the container wasn't watered. This container also has my ginger fingers growing in it so it gets watered a bit more frequently than is my usual practice for peppers. I have the container in an upstairs SE facing bedroom which gets pretty warm during the day and is used for no bottom heat/room temp (70~72°F) seed starting in spring.

ANYWAY, enough background! The two cuttings are still alive with tiny leaves on them that were on the original cuttings (not new growth). One of them flowered but the flower has browned and shriveled.

[garden5]

Thanks for the update Apps and the background! It looks like we can say that pepper cuttings prefer warm soil temps and abundant light to root. Also higher humidity.

What kind of mix were the surviving ones in?

[stella1751]

RIP, Frankenchile. The fungus gnats got it. Fearful of over-watering, I let the soil dry until the pot was light as a feather. I gave it a healthy watering, probably awakening hundreds of fungus gnat larvae. Within three days, my sweet hot-pepper plant was gone, wilted to the point of non-existence. It's still alive, but barely, its leaves drooping straight to the soil.

I grabbed some Sevin powder that's been sitting around for at least a decade, dusting Frankenchile and the one remaining cutting. Yes, the fungus gnats killed the rest of 'em. I thought I was over-watering, but from what I've read about this nasty bug, it's the moist environment conducive to larvae feeding that has killed everyone. It's a Catch-22: If you don't water, the plants die; if you do water, the plants die.

Yeah, I hate to use chemicals. I hate worse to lose this wonderful, irreplaceable pepper plant.

Applestar, can the remaining Frankenchile cutting come over to your house to play? Like, for six months or so.

I am dejected

[garden5]

That really stinks, Stella. I've never heard of gnats killing a plant . I'll have to keep that in mind. At least you still have one left. Perhaps move it to another part of the house, maybe after the gnats hatch?

I know: water it, let them hatch, then take the shop-vac to 'em.

Good luck with the last cutting.

[applestar]

Ohh, sorry to hear that Stella. Don't forget rainbowgardener's success with watering seedlings with with water steeped with chamomile tea and cinnamonstick.

I think cuttings as well as seedlings are vulnerable because of limited and fragile (and no doubt succulent) young roots.

I'm having aphid problems in my house, Stella. Green and red ones on the peppers and yellow with black legged ones on the tropical milkweed. So far, they are under control, though I won't cancel the BOLO -- Be On the Look Out for... -- yet. (I feel like we're planning a playdate -- my kids are just getting over a cold... well, mine just had the chicken pox vaccination... )

[stella1751]

(I feel like we're planning a playdate -- my kids are just getting over a cold... well, mine just had the chicken pox vaccination... )

Thanks for the heads up about the aphids. My first panicked thought when I saw Frankenchile dying was "How close is New Jersey?" If you lived in town, Applestar, you would have heard me banging on your door at 3 AM, the Frankenchilette bundled up in footie-pajamas and me begging you to take it in. Clearly, I just don't know enough about rooting cuttings and bringing plants indoors for the winter.

There is one sprig left alive on Frankenchile, a sucker on the main stem. The rest of the leaves have begun to wither and die. Whenever I pass the plant, now setting on the dishwasher in the kitchen, I tell myself that if the soil can only dry, the plant will actually live. I'm dreaming; I know.

The Frankenchilette is hanging in there. It occurred to me this morning that my 70's era heating pad might be contributing to its problems. I took it off the tray and touch-tested the surface. Yep, too hot

The way I see it, what with the fungus gnats and the heating pad and my abysmal lack of knowledge, these two remaining summer treasures are living despite me.

How far is New Jersey from Wyoming?

[garden5]

Apps, you could take the one with green and red aphids on it and use it as a Christmas decoration. Have you tried spraying them with a very mild soap/water solution?

[applestar]

Pah-dum-pum. G5, your future as standup comic is very questionable.

I spray with a dribble of Dr. Bronner's Peppermint liquid soap and a drop or two of canola oil in about 1 qt of water, wait 5~10 min, then spray with filtered water.

[soil]

so do you think your plant you uprooted and brought in is dead because the leaves are drying out and dying? every single pepper I brought to my GH looks to what most would call "dead". the top growth and growth stems are actually dead though, you can tell by the color( dark greenish, soft looking) next years new growth will all come from dormant buds under the stem lower on the plant, the thicker woody stems. eventually your probably going to chop off all the top growth in the spring( or whatever dies) to let the plant regrow again. in really warm winter climates they don't loose leaves, but if its cold, expect to loose 90-100% of them.

[garden5]

Good tip, Soil, I'll definitely remember that. That is how my hot peppers looked when I brought them in. After reading this, I probably would have tried keeping them, but they got hit by a pretty hard freeze (they were under buckets, but still). If the did not get hit with the freeze, they probably would have made it. Oh well, there is always next year.

[TZ -OH6]

If the plants were frozen you might be able to get sprouts from the soil line or below, but that was before we got hit with bitter weather.

[garden5]

If the plants were frozen you might be able to get sprouts from the soil line or below, but that was befor we got hit with bitter weather.

Yeah, the peppers are sitting outside under 5 in. of snow, so I don't see them re-sprouting anytime soon. I have learned so much about overwintering peppers this year so I fell more confident about trying it next year. Hopefully I'll be more successful then.

[stella1751]

I have learned so much about overwintering peppers this year so I fell more confident about trying it next year. Hopefully I'll be more successful then.

That's exactly how I feel, Garden5! Even if this year's cuttings and over-wintering projects have fallen flat, next year I will do much better. I will learn from this experience. Why does it all seem so easy in print

We can't anticipate all the bad things that will happen, all the nasty bumps ahead. Next year, well, I will definitely change my starter soil mix for the cuttings, and I will not let the fungus gnats become so firmly established that they are able to fell a healthy plant. I will also get started earlier on this, not waiting until the last minute like I did this year.

The tiny sprig on the mature plant is still alive. Yesterday, I plucked off all the dead foliage, so now it has one long slender, leafless sucker coming out of the base of one short, thick stem that has a little three-leaf sprig stuck to it, about halfway up its side. While picking off dead leaves, I noticed the soil surface was crawling with fungus gnats. A new hatch must have taken place, so the Sevin powder clearly didn't work.

Ted had mentioned that "thuricide bacterial treatment" worked on fungus gnats, so I dug through my garden shed and found a canister of something called "Dipel Dust." When one of my sisters moved to Washington state, way back in 2002, she dropped all her gardening stuff, including this, off at my place on her way past.

The active ingredient is bacillus thuringiensis, which sounded close to what Ted had mentioned. I sprinkled both plants with this stuff, and I am not seeing any winged critters this morning. I am crossing my fingers. I am not despairing, not yet. I'm not giving up this plant without a fight

[stella1751]

Duplicate posting

[digitS']

The commercial product Gnatrol is Bacillus thuringiensis var. israelensis.

I have not used it but when I asked about the product one year, the garden center guy directed me to "mosquito dunks." These are things you toss in an outdoor pool and they are Bt var. israelensis.

I didn't get those either.

My problem isn't so much that I see any "teaming" of the larva in the soil. It is just that the gnats become a nuisance around the house. Some always show up after the house plants are brought back in from being outdoors during the summer.

I have sprayed the plants and soil surface with both insecticidal soap and pyrethrum/rotenone. Neither proved effective. I am sure that the p/r would quickly kill any insect it is in contact with and the soap would kill them after it has dried and dehydrated the critter. But, probably neither is going to do anything to the larva down in the soil.

What I've used to control the adult gnats the last few years are yellow sticky traps.

The 6 potted house plants here beside me in a west window have 1 sticky trap per 2 pots. There are probably a dozen gnats on each trap. I still see a gnat now and then - they like the bathroom and kitchen sinks. There are about 3 dozen that I won't be seeing flying around, however .

Steve

[csvd87]

those yellow sticky traps have worked wonders for me, probably killed off over 200 gnats, and a couple house flies, and a few mosquitoes. hehehe, but those killed off have still been able to lay their eggs, so although I kill the majority of the adults I can't get them all, I have too much soil in 1 area to control them all, I need about 5 boxes worth of traps to be able to get them all. I had 1 trap look completely black with gnats though. So if you only have a few plants, these would work great. I have about 20 in a 4x2x3 area So I may get desperate and get something a little stronger, but most likely not as I am cheap and lazy I kinda wish I wasn't so lazy. But anyways besides the fungus gnats my peppers aren't facing any sort of torture, well I have been pruning them back as I harvest so I can downsize their pots and fit more plants on the top shelf. I'd love to keep babbling but I won't. I will update the situation on the gnats when I get home, as I am currently visiting with my sister in Vancouver.

[applestar]

An open bowl or saucer-shaped container of soapy water (liquid dish detergent is fine in this case because you're not putting it on the plant) attracts the adult gnats and they drown. This serves double-purpose for adding humidity to the plant area. Empty and change soapy water as necessary.

Yellow sticky traps work. I'm too cheap to buy them, but you can smear petrolium jelly on anything yellow -- I've re-purposed used plastic utencils, party cups, etc. Not quite bright yellow, but wiide masking tape can be peeled off and disposed of. I've heard that the traps are more effective if the sticky surface is parallel to the soil surface. Do you find that to be true?

[digitS']

I have never even thought of using a container of soapy water nor about positioning the sticky trap parallel to the soil surface.

S'

[stella1751]

I know sticky traps and vaseline would be more environmentally friendly, really, much more responsible. Like most of us, I hate the thought of using chemicals in soil. Even more so, I hate using chemicals in a house populated by two elderly dogs, both highly sensitive to the slightest change in their diets. However, this was a last ditch attempt to save a dying plant.

Yes, the sticky traps and vaseline would take care of the gnats in their winged stage, but it's not the winged ones that are killing the plant: it's the larvae. Even one gnat that managed to evade traps could conceivably lay dozens of eggs in the soil, just enough to munch up whatever roots might be left.

This was Frankenchile's darkest hour; it is three leaves away from the big garden in the sky. It might still make the journey, in fact, probably will, but if it does, I will know I did what I could for it. Desperate times call for desperate measures

[TZ -OH6]

Fungus gnats usually indicate that the soil is being kept too wet. The grubs prefer to eat the mold growing in the potting mix so they usualy do not do serious harm to the plant.

[garden5]

OK, now I'm confused. Which is it, the adult or the larvae of the gnat that kills the plant and how does it accomplish this. Does it eat the plant alive, or just give it disease?

Thanks for clearing this up.

[applestar]

Fungus gnat adults don't eat anything as far as I know -- they're just annoying. The larvae eat fungus -- but as tiny as they are, I think they only eat the smallest hyphae. The trouble is that when new plants roots -- whether cutting or seedling -- are subjected to alternating states of too wet and too dry (enough for the roots to shrivel), the roots start to die off and are attacked by soil-dwelling molds, and in the process of eating them, the larvae end up eating the plant roots as well.

I think this often happens with peat-based potting mix.

That's why chamomile/cinnamon water helps with the seedlings because it keeps down the fungus population. For existing larvae, if you're not concerned about other soil denizens, I think flushing with soapy water helps (do this in lieu of watering). Dusting the surface with Diatomaceous Earth helps a little, though I've seen adult fungus gnats fly off completely covered in DE. I like dusting the surface with ground cinnamon because it smells so nice afterwards.

I have my earthworms to think about, so I try not to do anything drastic to the container soil. A while ago, when we were playing with a digital microscope, I took a pinch of soil from one of the pots and added a little rainwater. We saw one large nematode and other things swimming around, so my container soil is alive. That doesn't mean I don't get fungus gnats -- they're ubiquitous -- but I don't think I've ever seen them completely infesting the soil since I started with maintaining a living soilweb in the container mix.

I had a bad case of them last seed starting season, but it was also because I was losing the fight with an infestation in my indoor mushrooms substrates. When you can't target the fungus AND your growing edibles, it's a whole another ballgame. As I said in the beginning though, they're more of an issue with seedlings and cuttings -- not so much with established plants.

[stella1751]

The larvae do eat roots. They especially like new roots and the succulent roots of seedlings and cuttings, but in a pinch, they will munch on the damaged and partially decaying roots and root ends of a plant that has been brought in for over-wintering. Once my fungus gnats slaughtered a village of cuttings, they set their sights on the palace: Frankenchile.

Following is information on the pest. I especially like the second one, from my favorite garden research resource, which suggests the hard-to-find (except, apparently, in my garden shed ) bacillus thuringiensis as one means of eliminating the fellows. What are the odds?

From [url=https://gardening.about.com/od/gardenproblems/a/FungusGnats.htm]gardening.about.com[/url]: "Adult fungus gnats are mostly an annoyance, but the larva can do damage to young plants and seedlings by feeding on the new, tender roots. It is also thought that they feed on the developing callus of cuttings, delaying the development of new roots. Their feeding stresses the plants and provides an entryway for disease pathogens. The first symptom of damage is usually wilting, followed by general decline of the plant."

From [url=https://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/insect/05584.html]Colorado State University[/url]: "Fungus gnats are small, delicate bodied flies that commonly develop in the growing medium of houseplants. Larvae of fungus gnats feed on algae, fungi and plant roots in growing medium."

[csvd87]

Unfortunately I couldn't keep my plants in their everbearing state (although they kept flowering) I had to hack them down to stumps to make room, so I pruned them down to a short stick and trimmed the rootball to fit in a 4 inch pot, bare rooted it and soaked that in a liquid seaweed solution, then I planted them, I did this with my Red Beauty, Jalapeno, and Sweet Banana, and will do it with my Sweet Cayenne when it is done its last fruit. I'll get some pics of the resulting stumps later.

[garden5]

Thanks for the posts, guys!

I see now how the gnats are detrimental to the plants. Also, I how annoying the adults are, too!

CS, that's too bad, but at least you have more room now. You know what that means don't you..........MORE PEPPERS .

I think your cut-back plants should do fine and will probably greatly come back when planted in the summer time.

[soil]

youll be surprised what comes back from the hardwood, recently my hand selected serrano pepper just started to regrow, it was basically just sticks, and all the top sticks were frost killed and soggy. it almost got thrown away 3 times by someone else. come summer though ill have a huge plant covered in peppers.

either way its ok as most everyone grows peppers as annuals so you can always start more and still get great harvests.

[garden5]

You're right about that, Soil.

This thread kind of makes it seem like it's the end of the world if you can't over-winter your pepper. It really isn't (unless you're one of us, of course ).

[applestar]

WADDAYAMEAN it wouldn't be the end of the world! :nutz:
FWIW -- here are update photos of my "tortured" peppers

As you can see, this has become the Winter 2011 NEW PROJECT!
You'll see ones with strong new growth that were brought in first. The ones that are still mostly sticks were left in the garage until last possible days and suffered a couple nights of mid-20's temp. The leaves had wilted and did not recover even after being brought inside. The ones I left on the upstairs Anaheim shriveled and dried up.

Most of the severely pruned pepper plants are here -- downstairs by a SE facing window on a 36"H surface with an overhead double fluorescent daylight tubes in a shoplight fixture. Counter surface temp is approx low~mid 60's but the lights raise the canopy temp a bit.:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8338.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8344.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8339.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8342.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8343.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8340.jpg[/img]

This Anaheim NM is the only one that made it upstairs (upper 60's~ as high as 72ºF) where the priority is being given to the tropicals like avocados, mango, and pineapples.
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8357.jpg[/img]

Here are most of my pepper cuttings under a double T-5 seed starting lights. They're still sitting on a heating mat:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8354.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8353.jpg[/img] [img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8352.jpg[/img]

These are tropical milkweeds receiving the Winter Torture treatment. They have also started to grow out:
[img]https://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll272/applesbucket/Image8345.jpg[/img]

[applestar]

So, how are everybody's peppers doing? Can we get a mid-winter report?
I imagine soil's peps are all still sleeping. Are other people carrying over dormant peppers?

I have to tell you that I'm having serous doubts about taking cuttings as any sort of useful method. [url=https://www.helpfulgardener.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=167612#167612]Out of all those cuttings I started out with[/url], I only have about 1/2dozen survivors, and they are barely putting out tiny leaves, as compared to the mother plants that were pruned to sticks and rootballs chopped down until they could be crammed into 1/2 gal and 1gal nursery pots (a few were given 2 and 3 gal pots). At this point, I'm looking at starting pepper seeds in less than a month from now. If the cuttings survive on, I *may* admit to some merit, since, as Stella had noted, these cuttings, as well as the pruned plants, are producing flower buds as fast as they're leafing out. I have a few tiny fruits forming among the big plants. So it stands to reason that the cuttings will be blooming and setting fruit as soon as renewed growth begins in spring, whereas the new seedlings won't be doing any of that for some time.

[garden5]

Well, Apps, I've got no indoor peppers, but I'm glad to see that you do . You'll be surprised how a pepper plant will come back after a hard pruning. The deer usually like to munch on mine in the garden and usually bite off the tops. However, the plant just sends forth new shoots from almost all of the leaf axles.

In the picture you linked to....were all those bins and bags containing cuttings? If so, than you do raise a good point about the low survival rate of cuttings. However, the one good thing about cutting propagation is that you are guaranteed genetic purity. If you have hybrid pepper plant, cuttings are just about the only way to make more of it without ordering more seeds.

[soil]

my peppers are overwintering the GH right now, a bit cold but they will survive.