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ReptileAddiction
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Your winter tomatos are doing better than my summer tomatos. :oops: I know what went wrong so I can fix it.
-I started them to late
-I didnt give them enough water
-It was to hot I have to shade them in that spot
and I had pollination areas. Is their something I could use besides an electric toothbrush to pollinate them? I don't really want to have to buy a toothbrush but I guess I will if I cant find anything suitable.

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applestar
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You could set your cell phone to vibrate.... Nah. :P

Almost any cheap electric toothbrush is supposed to work. I often see coupons for children's electric toothbrush in the flyers. No doubt they're available online as well. You could get Dora the Explorer, Hello Kitty, or Thomas the Train, or Spiderman. :wink:

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ReptileAddiction
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I could use my cell phone lol. Ill go look at amazon. What doesn't amazon have?????

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PunkRotten
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Could you just flick flowers with your fingers? I do that occasionally to the tomato plant and cape goosberry I have outside right now.

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ReptileAddiction
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I don't know. I already ordered a cheap toothbrush from amazon. It should work good for what I want it for.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005D6 ... 00_s00_i00

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rainbowgardener
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reptile - the tomatoes you are talking about are outdoors? You shouldn't have to do anything to them, they are self-pollinating.

But you are in SoCal and mentioned need for shade. If daytime temps are consistently 90 or above and/or night time temps consistently at 75 or above, tomatoes will not set fruit. The pollen, which is a protein, denatures, like getting cooked. Electric toothbrush or anything else you would try will not make a difference when the pollen grains have broken down.

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Good point Rainbow. It's possible though, that stimulating the flowers to drop pollen during earlier cooler season or cooler times of the day -- by flicking the floral trusses or buzzing with the electric toothbrush -- may help? Pay attention to when the variety matures and try to start/plant them out so they will be ready to bloom before the hot weather arrives. These varieties I'm growing are readily setting fruit in 58-68°F temperature range.

... :D :D :D ...

My one tomato loving daughter and I ate the first Sophie's Choice today:
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Seeds started on Sept. 2 so approx. 3-1/2 months to first ripe fruit. Not bad, at all, really. 8)

The flavor wasn't as rich as the super flavorful tomatoes that we'd become spoiled by this summer (Black Krim, Prudens Purple, Black Cherry, Haley's Purple Comet, Red Boar, Yellow Brandywine, Sunsugar F2, Matt's Wild Cherry, etc.) but this Sophie's Choice first fruit had a bright tomato flavor with a bit of acid tang, and great mouth feel -- none of the mealy blah. Thin skin that didn't bother me at all to eat. We both reached for the next piece to stuff in our mouths until the plate was empty. :()

Scooped gel out of four cells (about half) to save. :wink:

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gixxerific
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Awesome that was fast. When did you plant Sophie's Choice?

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applestar
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I dropped seeds for Sophie's Choice and Zarnitsa on September 2.
Donomater F2 was dropped on October 5.
I have to go look at the plant tags to see when I started Black Krim.

...don't you hate it when you realize you didn't keep good records? None of the existing Black Krim tags say when they were sown, only the first Uppot date. :roll:

But judging by the OP of this thread (dated 10/7/12), in which I mentioned that I sowed the Black Krim seeds because they had started to germinate in the fermentation cups and they had started to sprout, I would guess that I must have sown the pre-germinated seeds on 10/5 when I dropped the Donomater seeds. Whew! now I can go fill in my notes. :wink:

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rainbowgardener wrote:reptile - the tomatoes you are talking about are outdoors? You shouldn't have to do anything to them, they are self-pollinating.

But you are in SoCal and mentioned need for shade. If daytime temps are consistently 90 or above and/or night time temps consistently at 75 or above, tomatoes will not set fruit. The pollen, which is a protein, denatures, like getting cooked. Electric toothbrush or anything else you would try will not make a difference when the pollen grains have broken down.
I know they are self pollinating but they had no bees on them (I have no idea why considering their are a lot of bees here and they get almost now wind because they are tucked away in a corner. Night temps are never above 75. When the first fruit was setting it was not 90 degrees. That leads me to believe it was pollination. And the few fruit that did set the flowers were open for probably a month first.

Anyway congrats. That tomato looks so good...

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rainbowgardener
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Oh yeah, Applestar wins the big prize!! Homegrown, vine ripened tomatoes at Christmas time! :D :clap: It looks so beautiful.

Tomatoes don't need bees either. A bit of breeze does help. You can simulate that just by shaking the plant or the cage/ support.

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ReptileAddiction
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But they were tucked away in a little corner where they get pretty much no breeze. I already ordered the toothbrush and it was only 3 bucks so...


Anyway I wonder if you could develop a variety suited to indoor growing.

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prettygurl
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ReptileAddiction wrote: Is their something I could use besides an electric toothbrush to pollinate them? I don't really want to have to buy a toothbrush but I guess I will if I cant find anything suitable.
I bought a kid's electric toothbrush on sale for a little more than $3. The toothbrush doesn't have to be exotic.

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I bought a seemingly decent one for 3-4 bucks.

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I've a few minutes while waiting for the cinnamon rolls to bake...:wink:

Here are more green ones -- over two dozen total including pea-sized ones but quite a few are getting bigger:
Black Krim (first photo includes the fused bloom)
ImageImage

Zarnitsa
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Donomater
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Chip bag reflector/mulch -- I might do this with all the containers 8)
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ReptileAddiction
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Nice! That double bloom will be huge...

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:shock: :shock: :shock:
This morning, I came downstairs in the predawn hours to turn on the plants' lights and give them their morning mist spray and found that one end of the Winter Wonderland 4-tube T-8 light fixture had fallen during the night. :shock: :shock: :shock:

This Zarnitsa in the 2.5 gallon black pot on the left -- my biggest and (had been) loaded with floral trusses and green fruits took the blunt of the crash. Despite suffering broken stems and leaves, she held up the heavy light fixture so that none of the other plants, except the little avocado which had been knocked down to the floor and lost 1/3 of the potting mix (but had been otherwise uninjured) were damaged.

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After extensive emergency repairs with parafilm-m tape, during which 1/3 to nearly 1/2 of the upper foliage and branches that were hopelessly detached had to be amputated, she looked like this:
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I even tried to repair two fruit trusses that were bent but not broken:
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After surgery, she was given some day-old AACT and thorough misting. Her condition remains critical and fate of her numerous green babies is uncertain.... :cry: :>
Last edited by applestar on Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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rainbowgardener
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So sad, but looks like she will survive!

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Here to wishing you luck on Zarnista.

Sorry to hear this but everything looks good otherwise. I had to pull 3 plants of Donomator. They all succumb to mold. Yours are looking good.

When you get ripe ones save me some seeds of them. That should be the F3. Blane and Counselor still have some going as well. Many people have seeds but I don't think they have grown them yet.

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That kinda sucks. How many blooms did you lose?

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I didn't count. Just bunched them up and put them in the worm bin.
She needed a hanging support like a broken limb patient in a hospital:
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There used to be another side branch and her entire upper canopy had been pushing against the light grid. :(

On the bright side, her fluid transport seems to be still functioning so her prognosis is much better, though I think I see a bruise on that fruit...
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Donomater f2 plants are continuing to grow. Here are some green fruits on #3 and #1:
ImageImage

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rainbowgardener
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So (just because I'm considering whether it would feel worth it to me to try to replicate your experiment some year), how many indoor grown and ripened tomatoes have you actually eaten so far? :)

Your plants continue to look beautiful! You have the greenest thumb of all!

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You are so kind. :D. I wish I could say I'be been eating more than just that one....
That first Sophie's Choice may have been a stroke of luck due to stress -- this plant was plagued with some kind of foliage disease. It seems to be outgrowing it now, and since the ripe fruit was harvested, has been putting effort into growing the 2nd fruit, and new growth has produced floral trusses that have set fruit.

But then I started with Sophie's Choice and Zarnitsa seeds on Sept. 2.
During the growing season, I start tomato seeds between Valentine's Day and March 7, and with extraordinary effort might start harvesting earliest ripe tomatoes by end of June or early July. That's with outdoor full sun and hot June weather. So 120 days from seed to vine ripened harvest could be considered about average.

Right now, I have a 2-1/2" diameter Sophie's Choice that looks like it's thinking of breaking color soon, two 2" diameter Zarnitsa fruits that are still green, and one mega-bloom 2-1/4" diam. and biggest single 1-3/4" and two 1-1/4" diam. hard green Black Krm fruits. Largest Donomater fruit is 1". All of them also have many more smaller fruits and are continuing to bloom. I'm hoping first of these may ripen by mid-January.

It's not helping that our "normal" winter weather has arrived and outdoor overnight lows have been in the 20's, and we have had some furiously windy days. Upstairs overnight temps near the windows are probably in the low 60's and downstairs low 50's at floor level and mid-50's To low 60's at bench level. Daytime temps mid-high 60's uptairs, low-mid 60's downstairs.

I'm convinced that using a suitable variety for indoor winter grow is number one criterion for satisfaction and success.

But all of the Sophie's Choice seedlings were beset by the disease. One completely succumbed. If they were not slowed down by the fungal issues, if I had been spraying them with milk and AACT from the beginning, it's possible all of them would have produced and ripened earlier fruit. I'm definitely trying again next Winter since I really would like to be able to grow respectably sized good flavored tomatoes or it's not worth it. At this point, I have the recovering one with the large fruit and new growth, one on the cold floor with three small fruits, and one in the kitchen window/cold and limited light that is struggling to keep its floral trusses alive -- no luck so far... They all blacken and shrivel up.

Zarnitsa is a great second candidate so far. Slightly taller than Sohphie's but more vigorous and productive in terms of floral trusses and fruit set. Can't wait to taste them -- I'm hoping by mid-end of January.

Black Krim and Donomater F2 seeds were started a month later on Oct. 5. I have what appears to be an earlier maturing strain of Black Krim and some of these green fruits are already as big as Zarnitsa fruits. My strain is also shorter growing, but even so, they are not growing floral trusses as readily as the other three varieties. I have one with fruit truss of 3 at 10" above soil level, and another plant with 2 plus a fused bloom fruit at 15" above soil level (rootball was dropped to the bottom at each Uppot). With both of these plants, the next floral/fruit truss is 16" higher up the vine. But I have one plant that didn't grow a floral truss until 32" above soil level and two plants that at 40" still have not grown any mature floral trusses.

Obviously, I will be saving seeds from the lower/earlier floral truss plants for possible future winter grow and possibly culling the tall and useless plants, or testing seeds from this strain in the summer to see if they perform differently
If I manage to master the technique during this winter's grow, I might try to cross these more promising Black Krim with Zarnitsa and maybe another cross with Sophie's Choice as well.

Donomater F2's are segregating so I will keep a close eye on their performances. So far, they are similar to Zarnitsa in rate of height growth and at least one of them is prolific.

I took some photos but the battery ran out. I'll post them after recharging.
Last edited by applestar on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Thanks for posting all this info.

I agree 120 days from seeds to ripe fruit is what I figure. Plant seeds mid Feb, put the plants in the garden mid April, ripe fruit mid June.

That means to have Christmas tomatoes, you would need to plant seeds late August. I guess you could plant them outdoors in pots and then bring them in when it is getting too cold.

I just don't have a good space for big plants indoors that has adequate lighting. But I will keep this in mind for this year, if I can rig a space. Christmas tomatoes would just be so awesome!

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Great posting Apple.

You are saying it is getting cold. I feel ya its 16 degrees here now. That is a major problem for me at least growing in my basement, it seems for you as well. It's too cold for them to flourish like they would outside not to mention the weaker lighting espeacially for me.

If an when I finish my basement off my grow room will be a room and not an entire basement thus making it easier to keep it warmer.

I really think that would help a lot.

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To combat the low temps you could put some heat bulbs in pointed down at the plants (would double as more light) or you could also buy a small room heater. Both would dry the plants out though so you would have to keep them well watered.

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I agree that there are ways to provide more heat... But I'm going to try to find cooler temp tolerant varieties. I'm compiling a list of all the short, early, cool temp tolerant varieties to comb through for possible additional candidates to try next winter. 8)

Another idea I picked up is to pick the fruits and ripen off the vine in warmer environment, but we'll see.

So, this morning, the 2nd Sopie's Choice is blushing. (you don't need any more photos, do you :lol:). I'll be sure to weigh it this time before eating, but it's about 2-1/2" in diameter.

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OK I can't help myself :> besides, I didn't post the photos I meant to before :wink:

The blushing Sophie's Choice grew another 1/4" since this photo was taken last week:
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Black Krims:
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-- don't they look sort of stripey with clear skin?

Have I shown how I'm using the supplemental lights?

Two-tube T-12 shoplight standing upright on the floor:
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This was meant for the banana and avocado plants -- oh well :roll:

Clamp-on utility lights with daylight CFL on either side. I'm adding a socket extender and Y-splitter to at least one side to double the output. I found out, though, that I'll need to extend the reflector somehow.
Image

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I haven't replied in a while on my status after watching the video you will know why. I have done what I can so far. Sprayed a home made anti-bact, another home made milk and water and a store bought fungicide. Nothing is seem to help, and I am running out of options.

I have never ever had this sort of thing happen to me. So I am struggling to keep my head above water. I fear everything will be lost, and more importantly I am very worried about all the starters I am going to be dropping soon.

So tell me I can save these or tell me to throw these in the trash. I need some kind f guidance here, I am at my Witt's end. :'( The crying emoticon is there because every time I watch this video I get a little wet on the eyes.

Arrrrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :( :o >:( >:( >:( >:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhzcH4ut ... e=youtu.be
Dono :(

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in a small closed environment, a little disease goes a long way.

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applestar
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Gixx, I'm really sorry that this happened. :( I hope you are seeing progress in your efforts to knock them down. :bouncey:
If nothing else, you may discover excellent disease tolerance in some of the varieties/lines of plants you are growing. I hope so.


So my 2nd tomato harvest this winter will be very soon (kindof happy to note that it will very likely be before mid-Jan I said ealier) -- The one little faint blush on the left shoulder two days ago has already spread this much:
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Jumps right out at you in the green foliage :D
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In the mean time, the tomatoes in the cat-free bedroom upstairs has been discovered by what I believe are spider mites despite the daily misting. At first I couldn't believe they were spider mites -- and I'm not calling them red spider mites which is the usual indoor suspect because these don't look like what I recognize as red spider mites. But they have been leaving the classic tiny white spots visible on the top of the leaves. (Donomater f2#3)
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The trouble is when I turn the leaves over, I see no red tiny spots which should be the red spider mites, but infinitesimal microscopic, barely discernible black specks that are much tinier than red spider mites. When I rub at them with my finger, they don't streak red, but do come off as black non-streaking specks.
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Nevertheless, I've started spraying them off with soapy and plain water. Hopefully this will control whatever they are. :evil:

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gixxerific
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Bad news there Apple. I know you know your pest and disease pretty well but could it possibly be flea beetles? Hopefully you can get it under control. Donomater is not having a good run so far, I really need to see what comes of this F2.

As far as me the battle is being won unfortunately I'm not the one winning. :cry: Still losing plants but I think it has slowed or maybe it's just that I'm running out of plants. :lol: -wall-

You have a good point about finding which ones have disease resistance. Though even some in the same ling are left and right on this. I have some doing pretty good while the one or two next to it is on the verge of culling (same variety).

Good news is Balkan Tiger F2 is in full turn now and I saved a green fruit from Aces High F5 that is prbably ripe by now if not it will be real soon. That plant was culled a week or so ago. I will keep plugging along, what really makes me mad is I have to remove ALL the soil I have which is a LOT!!!!!!!!!! and have to buy more as well as trying to sanitse my area for this years starts.

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Apple,

Sorry about the bugs! And being indoors (?) there won't be any natural predators.

Perhaps you could dust the leaves with diatomaceous earth. I would use food grade myself, but any would do, as it washes off before you eat the tomatoes. DE can be dusted on with any garden duster, but you may want to use a new one that's not been otherwise contaminated. Food grade DE would not need to be washed off..... :o

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Thanks! I think they are two spotted spider mites. They look like tiny black specks because their bodies are transparent or light green/color of the leaves and what I'm (barely) seeing are frass and the larger infinitismal dots are the two black looking spots which are their digestive pouches containing dark green juices they've sucked up from my tomato plant :evil:

I've thoroughly sprayed with soapy water twice today but still found active mites tonight :x dusting with DE is a good idea. I'll try tht in the morning. :twisted:

Gixx - ouch! Re: having to get all new seed starting mix :(

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2nd Sophie's Choice fruit looks ready to pick! :D
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...and a Zarnitsa is starting to blush :oops: (:wink:)
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There is another, larger fruit on a Zarnitsa by the window that may also be breaking color, but I have to get past an avocado and another Zarnitsa plant to see better.... :roll:

I've been harvesting these salad greens and it's ready for another cutting:
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...and thinning these radishes will supply great addition to the salad
8)
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Looking good Apple. All is not lost here I come with updates. :lol:

This is Caught In A Mosh F3. Uhhhh.....Antho is a go go! :-/

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gixxerific
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I managed to get fruit of off Balkan Tiger F2. There are a few more ripening as well. It is a very dark pink I believe. I forgot to check the skin cause I was too busy eating it. The flavor was good considering the plants condition. The one pictured is a blunt heart you might say. This was the first fruit, the rest on the plant are definitely heart like the shape Josh had. It seems solid no stripes.

The plant is fighting its way slowly but surely. If it were in the garden thus better conditions I really think this would have outpaced this disease much better and probably given a good crop.

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gixxerific
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Well here is what I came up with from one plant of Aces High F3. The plant died due to disease. I harvested the green fruit and let them ripen off the vine. I did not get a taste them they were a bit over ripe but they had a good tomato smell.

Image
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applestar
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Look at you with all those ripe tomatoes! Didn't you start later than I did?
...and in spide of the problems too. :mrgreen: 8)

That Caught in a Mosh is a looker. I hope you have that one under the superduper T-5's ...and don't forget the mirror trick to shine the light everywhere (I hope tht works under indoor conditions too)

The larger Aces High s a double, right? The lobed fruit shape reminds me f Costoluto Genovese, but much bigger. x-section slice would look/looks beautiful on a sandwich it would be a shame to cover it with the second slice of bread.

I took another picture of Zarnitsa fruit. I'm obsessing, I know :roll: but the blush had spread since ths morning :>
Image

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We ate the Sophie's Choice today:
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It weighed a fraction over 3 oz so still no more than a saladette size. Not sure if I'll be getting those 4-8 oz fruits.
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It's a very TANGY tomato -- almost lemony with strong acidity, but with great tomato flavor tones. My daughter who gives high praise to dark and pink tomatoes -- Black Krim, Haley's Purple Comet, Pruden's Purple, Black Cherry, Brandywine, and other full flavored tomatoes and snacks on sugary Sun Sugar and Matt's Wild Cherry concluded that out of (1) plain vs. (2) salted vs. (3) good sprinkling of sugar, sugar made it taste like the good tomatoes.

Zarnitsa is continuing to :oops:
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