- ElizabethB
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I had the same idea, but you're ahead of me there. I started some new salad green seeds over the weekend, and I just uppotted salad greens that were started back in Oct and left outside until now. I discovered they were doing OK in their little community seed starting containers last week, so I uppotted them todaygixxerific wrote:
Rainbow see the lettuce,spinach in the background. They have been there for several months. I did this after you said something in a post a while back to someone else that sparked this idea.
Working great. Fresh salad when ever I want.
They should be ready and harvesting by the time the winter tomatoes ripen
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Was out all day... Barely had time to mist thoroughly and open the blinds this morning... And note that we're having a sunny day for once with full sun streaming in the window with most of the leaves finally gone from the trees behind our property while giving open blossoms a quick buzz with the ultrasonic toothbrush.
So imagine my thrill on finally getting around to checking on them to see that the first Sophie's Choice fruit is BLUSHING!!!
At 2" diameter, it's much smaller than its supposed to be, but I DON'T CARE -- IT'S BLUSHING!!!
So imagine my thrill on finally getting around to checking on them to see that the first Sophie's Choice fruit is BLUSHING!!!
At 2" diameter, it's much smaller than its supposed to be, but I DON'T CARE -- IT'S BLUSHING!!!
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- rainbowgardener
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WOW! Beautiful... I finally broke down and bought some supermarket tomatoes to cook with and was disgusted when I cut in to them... hard and pale and tasteless.
And you are doing all this with window light and fluorescents, right? I mean no metal halide or anything fancy like that? Because I know in past years I have told people here that it couldn't be done, to get them to fruit and ripen without high intensity lighting. I will be more careful in the future! But I think it is possible that only some one like you, Applestar (and gixx!) with green thumbs up to your elbows could do it.
And you are doing all this with window light and fluorescents, right? I mean no metal halide or anything fancy like that? Because I know in past years I have told people here that it couldn't be done, to get them to fruit and ripen without high intensity lighting. I will be more careful in the future! But I think it is possible that only some one like you, Applestar (and gixx!) with green thumbs up to your elbows could do it.
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...and today the fruit looks like this
...it's not soft to the touch yet, so it may actually ripen some more. I'm not sure if I should wait one more day...mustn't rush it right?
The main "Winter Wonderland" area by the SE window with the best light set up ( 4-tube T-8 fixture) on a counter table 36" above the floor where this tomato is ripening looks like this now:
...it's not soft to the touch yet, so it may actually ripen some more. I'm not sure if I should wait one more day...mustn't rush it right?
The main "Winter Wonderland" area by the SE window with the best light set up ( 4-tube T-8 fixture) on a counter table 36" above the floor where this tomato is ripening looks like this now:
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I wanted to show the rest which are not necessarily ideal set ups but ARE beginning to produce as you can see
"The Tall and the Cool Gang" on the floor where overnight temps can get down to 53-58°F. Small SW window with low winter sun mostly blocked by a pine tree. One 2-tube T-12 fixture standing vertically:
My new Day avocado in the front. if you zoom in past that to the tall Black Krim in the back, you'll see a fused blossom fruit. A Sophie's Choice in a 2L soda bottle with several small fruits are hiding in between.
(You might also zoom in on the "Free Bubble Bath for Gnats" if you dare )
"Bench Squatters" are starting to outgrow the utility lights and are looking lanky. Wide SE window somewhat blocked by a wall to the right. Two clamp on utility lights with daylight CFL bulb, one on each side. I plan to increase to two bulbs on each side by adding Y-splitter sockets OR buying additional clamp on utility lights:
If you zoom in, there are two blooms on top of this Black Krim. One has set fruit.
Fused blossom Black Krim fruit with two others on the same cluster.
One of the upstairs Donomaters with a pea-sized fruit. Big sepals are sometimes indication of big fruit, I hear. SE unobstructed window, one clamp on utility light with daylight CFL bulb on each side:
Close up:
Today's dreary weather does nothing to enhance the sorry images.
"The Tall and the Cool Gang" on the floor where overnight temps can get down to 53-58°F. Small SW window with low winter sun mostly blocked by a pine tree. One 2-tube T-12 fixture standing vertically:
My new Day avocado in the front. if you zoom in past that to the tall Black Krim in the back, you'll see a fused blossom fruit. A Sophie's Choice in a 2L soda bottle with several small fruits are hiding in between.
(You might also zoom in on the "Free Bubble Bath for Gnats" if you dare )
"Bench Squatters" are starting to outgrow the utility lights and are looking lanky. Wide SE window somewhat blocked by a wall to the right. Two clamp on utility lights with daylight CFL bulb, one on each side. I plan to increase to two bulbs on each side by adding Y-splitter sockets OR buying additional clamp on utility lights:
If you zoom in, there are two blooms on top of this Black Krim. One has set fruit.
Fused blossom Black Krim fruit with two others on the same cluster.
One of the upstairs Donomaters with a pea-sized fruit. Big sepals are sometimes indication of big fruit, I hear. SE unobstructed window, one clamp on utility light with daylight CFL bulb on each side:
Close up:
Today's dreary weather does nothing to enhance the sorry images.
Last edited by applestar on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
- applestar
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Thanks Eric.DoubleDogFarm wrote:Hey, I have green armpits. I'm not sure it's worth the time and energy.
I could spend x on pale tasteless store bought or x on time / energy. Apple can you fill in the second X
Very nice Apple
Eric
Let me answer this question. For me, if you read between the lines, I'm having FUN!!! . So yep well worth the time and energy.
If you'd asked "...and money" my answer still would be yes because even though *I'm* not doing this for money, the experience is priceless: This winter's NEW EXPERIMENT will give me the feel for what these plants need to grow and fruit, and what traits to use as criteria for future variety selection.
I'm trying these varieties to see the differences in their individual traits. The Black Krim was a bonus (I was fermenting the seeds and left them too long and they started to germinate). It *should* be noted that mine is a shorter growing, earlier maturing strain, which worked out well. (In fact the seeds were marked with ? for possibility of cross with Red Boar -- another reason I wanted to save the seedlings)
People may call me but putting all this time and energy into these NEW EXPERIMENTS and then sharing these findings gives me a sense of accomplishment that if others want to try growing tomatoes like houseplants during winter months, they may be able to find some information they could use here: Next year's second x will be less than *my* this year's for everyone.
So, don't you feel like reserving a space in your (green)house for some winter tomatoes now?
- ReptileAddiction
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Your winter tomatos are doing better than my summer tomatos. I know what went wrong so I can fix it.
-I started them to late
-I didnt give them enough water
-It was to hot I have to shade them in that spot
and I had pollination areas. Is their something I could use besides an electric toothbrush to pollinate them? I don't really want to have to buy a toothbrush but I guess I will if I cant find anything suitable.
-I started them to late
-I didnt give them enough water
-It was to hot I have to shade them in that spot
and I had pollination areas. Is their something I could use besides an electric toothbrush to pollinate them? I don't really want to have to buy a toothbrush but I guess I will if I cant find anything suitable.
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You could set your cell phone to vibrate.... Nah.
Almost any cheap electric toothbrush is supposed to work. I often see coupons for children's electric toothbrush in the flyers. No doubt they're available online as well. You could get Dora the Explorer, Hello Kitty, or Thomas the Train, or Spiderman.
Almost any cheap electric toothbrush is supposed to work. I often see coupons for children's electric toothbrush in the flyers. No doubt they're available online as well. You could get Dora the Explorer, Hello Kitty, or Thomas the Train, or Spiderman.
- ReptileAddiction
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- ReptileAddiction
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I don't know. I already ordered a cheap toothbrush from amazon. It should work good for what I want it for.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005D6 ... 00_s00_i00
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005D6 ... 00_s00_i00
- rainbowgardener
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reptile - the tomatoes you are talking about are outdoors? You shouldn't have to do anything to them, they are self-pollinating.
But you are in SoCal and mentioned need for shade. If daytime temps are consistently 90 or above and/or night time temps consistently at 75 or above, tomatoes will not set fruit. The pollen, which is a protein, denatures, like getting cooked. Electric toothbrush or anything else you would try will not make a difference when the pollen grains have broken down.
But you are in SoCal and mentioned need for shade. If daytime temps are consistently 90 or above and/or night time temps consistently at 75 or above, tomatoes will not set fruit. The pollen, which is a protein, denatures, like getting cooked. Electric toothbrush or anything else you would try will not make a difference when the pollen grains have broken down.
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Good point Rainbow. It's possible though, that stimulating the flowers to drop pollen during earlier cooler season or cooler times of the day -- by flicking the floral trusses or buzzing with the electric toothbrush -- may help? Pay attention to when the variety matures and try to start/plant them out so they will be ready to bloom before the hot weather arrives. These varieties I'm growing are readily setting fruit in 58-68°F temperature range.
... ...
My one tomato loving daughter and I ate the first Sophie's Choice today:
Seeds started on Sept. 2 so approx. 3-1/2 months to first ripe fruit. Not bad, at all, really.
The flavor wasn't as rich as the super flavorful tomatoes that we'd become spoiled by this summer (Black Krim, Prudens Purple, Black Cherry, Haley's Purple Comet, Red Boar, Yellow Brandywine, Sunsugar F2, Matt's Wild Cherry, etc.) but this Sophie's Choice first fruit had a bright tomato flavor with a bit of acid tang, and great mouth feel -- none of the mealy blah. Thin skin that didn't bother me at all to eat. We both reached for the next piece to stuff in our mouths until the plate was empty.
Scooped gel out of four cells (about half) to save.
... ...
My one tomato loving daughter and I ate the first Sophie's Choice today:
Seeds started on Sept. 2 so approx. 3-1/2 months to first ripe fruit. Not bad, at all, really.
The flavor wasn't as rich as the super flavorful tomatoes that we'd become spoiled by this summer (Black Krim, Prudens Purple, Black Cherry, Haley's Purple Comet, Red Boar, Yellow Brandywine, Sunsugar F2, Matt's Wild Cherry, etc.) but this Sophie's Choice first fruit had a bright tomato flavor with a bit of acid tang, and great mouth feel -- none of the mealy blah. Thin skin that didn't bother me at all to eat. We both reached for the next piece to stuff in our mouths until the plate was empty.
Scooped gel out of four cells (about half) to save.
- gixxerific
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I dropped seeds for Sophie's Choice and Zarnitsa on September 2.
Donomater F2 was dropped on October 5.
I have to go look at the plant tags to see when I started Black Krim.
...don't you hate it when you realize you didn't keep good records? None of the existing Black Krim tags say when they were sown, only the first Uppot date.
But judging by the OP of this thread (dated 10/7/12), in which I mentioned that I sowed the Black Krim seeds because they had started to germinate in the fermentation cups and they had started to sprout, I would guess that I must have sown the pre-germinated seeds on 10/5 when I dropped the Donomater seeds. Whew! now I can go fill in my notes.
Donomater F2 was dropped on October 5.
I have to go look at the plant tags to see when I started Black Krim.
...don't you hate it when you realize you didn't keep good records? None of the existing Black Krim tags say when they were sown, only the first Uppot date.
But judging by the OP of this thread (dated 10/7/12), in which I mentioned that I sowed the Black Krim seeds because they had started to germinate in the fermentation cups and they had started to sprout, I would guess that I must have sown the pre-germinated seeds on 10/5 when I dropped the Donomater seeds. Whew! now I can go fill in my notes.
- ReptileAddiction
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I know they are self pollinating but they had no bees on them (I have no idea why considering their are a lot of bees here and they get almost now wind because they are tucked away in a corner. Night temps are never above 75. When the first fruit was setting it was not 90 degrees. That leads me to believe it was pollination. And the few fruit that did set the flowers were open for probably a month first.rainbowgardener wrote:reptile - the tomatoes you are talking about are outdoors? You shouldn't have to do anything to them, they are self-pollinating.
But you are in SoCal and mentioned need for shade. If daytime temps are consistently 90 or above and/or night time temps consistently at 75 or above, tomatoes will not set fruit. The pollen, which is a protein, denatures, like getting cooked. Electric toothbrush or anything else you would try will not make a difference when the pollen grains have broken down.
Anyway congrats. That tomato looks so good...
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I bought a kid's electric toothbrush on sale for a little more than $3. The toothbrush doesn't have to be exotic.ReptileAddiction wrote: Is their something I could use besides an electric toothbrush to pollinate them? I don't really want to have to buy a toothbrush but I guess I will if I cant find anything suitable.
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I've a few minutes while waiting for the cinnamon rolls to bake...
Here are more green ones -- over two dozen total including pea-sized ones but quite a few are getting bigger:
Black Krim (first photo includes the fused bloom)
Zarnitsa
Donomater
Chip bag reflector/mulch -- I might do this with all the containers
Here are more green ones -- over two dozen total including pea-sized ones but quite a few are getting bigger:
Black Krim (first photo includes the fused bloom)
Zarnitsa
Donomater
Chip bag reflector/mulch -- I might do this with all the containers
- ReptileAddiction
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This morning, I came downstairs in the predawn hours to turn on the plants' lights and give them their morning mist spray and found that one end of the Winter Wonderland 4-tube T-8 light fixture had fallen during the night.
This Zarnitsa in the 2.5 gallon black pot on the left -- my biggest and (had been) loaded with floral trusses and green fruits took the blunt of the crash. Despite suffering broken stems and leaves, she held up the heavy light fixture so that none of the other plants, except the little avocado which had been knocked down to the floor and lost 1/3 of the potting mix (but had been otherwise uninjured) were damaged.
After extensive emergency repairs with parafilm-m tape, during which 1/3 to nearly 1/2 of the upper foliage and branches that were hopelessly detached had to be amputated, she looked like this:
I even tried to repair two fruit trusses that were bent but not broken:
After surgery, she was given some day-old AACT and thorough misting. Her condition remains critical and fate of her numerous green babies is uncertain....
Last edited by applestar on Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
- rainbowgardener
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- gixxerific
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Here to wishing you luck on Zarnista.
Sorry to hear this but everything looks good otherwise. I had to pull 3 plants of Donomator. They all succumb to mold. Yours are looking good.
When you get ripe ones save me some seeds of them. That should be the F3. Blane and Counselor still have some going as well. Many people have seeds but I don't think they have grown them yet.
Sorry to hear this but everything looks good otherwise. I had to pull 3 plants of Donomator. They all succumb to mold. Yours are looking good.
When you get ripe ones save me some seeds of them. That should be the F3. Blane and Counselor still have some going as well. Many people have seeds but I don't think they have grown them yet.
- ReptileAddiction
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I didn't count. Just bunched them up and put them in the worm bin.
She needed a hanging support like a broken limb patient in a hospital:
There used to be another side branch and her entire upper canopy had been pushing against the light grid.
On the bright side, her fluid transport seems to be still functioning so her prognosis is much better, though I think I see a bruise on that fruit...
Donomater f2 plants are continuing to grow. Here are some green fruits on #3 and #1:
She needed a hanging support like a broken limb patient in a hospital:
There used to be another side branch and her entire upper canopy had been pushing against the light grid.
On the bright side, her fluid transport seems to be still functioning so her prognosis is much better, though I think I see a bruise on that fruit...
Donomater f2 plants are continuing to grow. Here are some green fruits on #3 and #1:
- rainbowgardener
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You are so kind. . I wish I could say I'be been eating more than just that one....
That first Sophie's Choice may have been a stroke of luck due to stress -- this plant was plagued with some kind of foliage disease. It seems to be outgrowing it now, and since the ripe fruit was harvested, has been putting effort into growing the 2nd fruit, and new growth has produced floral trusses that have set fruit.
But then I started with Sophie's Choice and Zarnitsa seeds on Sept. 2.
During the growing season, I start tomato seeds between Valentine's Day and March 7, and with extraordinary effort might start harvesting earliest ripe tomatoes by end of June or early July. That's with outdoor full sun and hot June weather. So 120 days from seed to vine ripened harvest could be considered about average.
Right now, I have a 2-1/2" diameter Sophie's Choice that looks like it's thinking of breaking color soon, two 2" diameter Zarnitsa fruits that are still green, and one mega-bloom 2-1/4" diam. and biggest single 1-3/4" and two 1-1/4" diam. hard green Black Krm fruits. Largest Donomater fruit is 1". All of them also have many more smaller fruits and are continuing to bloom. I'm hoping first of these may ripen by mid-January.
It's not helping that our "normal" winter weather has arrived and outdoor overnight lows have been in the 20's, and we have had some furiously windy days. Upstairs overnight temps near the windows are probably in the low 60's and downstairs low 50's at floor level and mid-50's To low 60's at bench level. Daytime temps mid-high 60's uptairs, low-mid 60's downstairs.
I'm convinced that using a suitable variety for indoor winter grow is number one criterion for satisfaction and success.
But all of the Sophie's Choice seedlings were beset by the disease. One completely succumbed. If they were not slowed down by the fungal issues, if I had been spraying them with milk and AACT from the beginning, it's possible all of them would have produced and ripened earlier fruit. I'm definitely trying again next Winter since I really would like to be able to grow respectably sized good flavored tomatoes or it's not worth it. At this point, I have the recovering one with the large fruit and new growth, one on the cold floor with three small fruits, and one in the kitchen window/cold and limited light that is struggling to keep its floral trusses alive -- no luck so far... They all blacken and shrivel up.
Zarnitsa is a great second candidate so far. Slightly taller than Sohphie's but more vigorous and productive in terms of floral trusses and fruit set. Can't wait to taste them -- I'm hoping by mid-end of January.
Black Krim and Donomater F2 seeds were started a month later on Oct. 5. I have what appears to be an earlier maturing strain of Black Krim and some of these green fruits are already as big as Zarnitsa fruits. My strain is also shorter growing, but even so, they are not growing floral trusses as readily as the other three varieties. I have one with fruit truss of 3 at 10" above soil level, and another plant with 2 plus a fused bloom fruit at 15" above soil level (rootball was dropped to the bottom at each Uppot). With both of these plants, the next floral/fruit truss is 16" higher up the vine. But I have one plant that didn't grow a floral truss until 32" above soil level and two plants that at 40" still have not grown any mature floral trusses.
Obviously, I will be saving seeds from the lower/earlier floral truss plants for possible future winter grow and possibly culling the tall and useless plants, or testing seeds from this strain in the summer to see if they perform differently
If I manage to master the technique during this winter's grow, I might try to cross these more promising Black Krim with Zarnitsa and maybe another cross with Sophie's Choice as well.
Donomater F2's are segregating so I will keep a close eye on their performances. So far, they are similar to Zarnitsa in rate of height growth and at least one of them is prolific.
I took some photos but the battery ran out. I'll post them after recharging.
That first Sophie's Choice may have been a stroke of luck due to stress -- this plant was plagued with some kind of foliage disease. It seems to be outgrowing it now, and since the ripe fruit was harvested, has been putting effort into growing the 2nd fruit, and new growth has produced floral trusses that have set fruit.
But then I started with Sophie's Choice and Zarnitsa seeds on Sept. 2.
During the growing season, I start tomato seeds between Valentine's Day and March 7, and with extraordinary effort might start harvesting earliest ripe tomatoes by end of June or early July. That's with outdoor full sun and hot June weather. So 120 days from seed to vine ripened harvest could be considered about average.
Right now, I have a 2-1/2" diameter Sophie's Choice that looks like it's thinking of breaking color soon, two 2" diameter Zarnitsa fruits that are still green, and one mega-bloom 2-1/4" diam. and biggest single 1-3/4" and two 1-1/4" diam. hard green Black Krm fruits. Largest Donomater fruit is 1". All of them also have many more smaller fruits and are continuing to bloom. I'm hoping first of these may ripen by mid-January.
It's not helping that our "normal" winter weather has arrived and outdoor overnight lows have been in the 20's, and we have had some furiously windy days. Upstairs overnight temps near the windows are probably in the low 60's and downstairs low 50's at floor level and mid-50's To low 60's at bench level. Daytime temps mid-high 60's uptairs, low-mid 60's downstairs.
I'm convinced that using a suitable variety for indoor winter grow is number one criterion for satisfaction and success.
But all of the Sophie's Choice seedlings were beset by the disease. One completely succumbed. If they were not slowed down by the fungal issues, if I had been spraying them with milk and AACT from the beginning, it's possible all of them would have produced and ripened earlier fruit. I'm definitely trying again next Winter since I really would like to be able to grow respectably sized good flavored tomatoes or it's not worth it. At this point, I have the recovering one with the large fruit and new growth, one on the cold floor with three small fruits, and one in the kitchen window/cold and limited light that is struggling to keep its floral trusses alive -- no luck so far... They all blacken and shrivel up.
Zarnitsa is a great second candidate so far. Slightly taller than Sohphie's but more vigorous and productive in terms of floral trusses and fruit set. Can't wait to taste them -- I'm hoping by mid-end of January.
Black Krim and Donomater F2 seeds were started a month later on Oct. 5. I have what appears to be an earlier maturing strain of Black Krim and some of these green fruits are already as big as Zarnitsa fruits. My strain is also shorter growing, but even so, they are not growing floral trusses as readily as the other three varieties. I have one with fruit truss of 3 at 10" above soil level, and another plant with 2 plus a fused bloom fruit at 15" above soil level (rootball was dropped to the bottom at each Uppot). With both of these plants, the next floral/fruit truss is 16" higher up the vine. But I have one plant that didn't grow a floral truss until 32" above soil level and two plants that at 40" still have not grown any mature floral trusses.
Obviously, I will be saving seeds from the lower/earlier floral truss plants for possible future winter grow and possibly culling the tall and useless plants, or testing seeds from this strain in the summer to see if they perform differently
If I manage to master the technique during this winter's grow, I might try to cross these more promising Black Krim with Zarnitsa and maybe another cross with Sophie's Choice as well.
Donomater F2's are segregating so I will keep a close eye on their performances. So far, they are similar to Zarnitsa in rate of height growth and at least one of them is prolific.
I took some photos but the battery ran out. I'll post them after recharging.
Last edited by applestar on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
- rainbowgardener
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Thanks for posting all this info.
I agree 120 days from seeds to ripe fruit is what I figure. Plant seeds mid Feb, put the plants in the garden mid April, ripe fruit mid June.
That means to have Christmas tomatoes, you would need to plant seeds late August. I guess you could plant them outdoors in pots and then bring them in when it is getting too cold.
I just don't have a good space for big plants indoors that has adequate lighting. But I will keep this in mind for this year, if I can rig a space. Christmas tomatoes would just be so awesome!
I agree 120 days from seeds to ripe fruit is what I figure. Plant seeds mid Feb, put the plants in the garden mid April, ripe fruit mid June.
That means to have Christmas tomatoes, you would need to plant seeds late August. I guess you could plant them outdoors in pots and then bring them in when it is getting too cold.
I just don't have a good space for big plants indoors that has adequate lighting. But I will keep this in mind for this year, if I can rig a space. Christmas tomatoes would just be so awesome!
- gixxerific
- Super Green Thumb
- Posts: 5889
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:42 pm
- Location: Wentzville, MO (Just West oF St. Louis) Zone 5B
Great posting Apple.
You are saying it is getting cold. I feel ya its 16 degrees here now. That is a major problem for me at least growing in my basement, it seems for you as well. It's too cold for them to flourish like they would outside not to mention the weaker lighting espeacially for me.
If an when I finish my basement off my grow room will be a room and not an entire basement thus making it easier to keep it warmer.
I really think that would help a lot.
You are saying it is getting cold. I feel ya its 16 degrees here now. That is a major problem for me at least growing in my basement, it seems for you as well. It's too cold for them to flourish like they would outside not to mention the weaker lighting espeacially for me.
If an when I finish my basement off my grow room will be a room and not an entire basement thus making it easier to keep it warmer.
I really think that would help a lot.