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applestar
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Now, now Lorax, shouldn't you exact just punishment and deadhead them (properly disposing the immature seeds), then use the rest of the plant for compost so that they are at least making *some kind of* contribution to our eco-system? :wink:

TheLorax
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Oh, very good point. I'd always been told to never compost weeds or invasive species but never really thought about it! You're 100% correct. They're not allelopathic and I'm getting them long before they set seed so I should have been composting them all along! My composter will be very happy! My new raised vegetable beds will be even happier!

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Jess
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James282 wrote:I just bought a few aster plants and have now read that Jess would "never have them in her garden!" I was just wondering what the main problems are with them. They seem to be so pretty and I hope that they can have a place on my property somewhere!
Oops not been keeping up with this thread...sorry.
The area I live in is fairly hot and humid. Asters in hot humid weather are always covered in mildew. Their roots spread like spaghetti and unless dug up and split every couple of years the middle dies off and the edges fall over...the taller varieties fall over whatever state they are in!
Once in an area they are very difficult to get rid of. Getting every piece of root out is so hard and invariably they sprout in that area again.
All of that is a generalisation. There are many different forms of aster, some tall, some short, some very airy but your average clump in England is the tall, purple, straggly, mildew infested, overgrown Aster novi-belgii.
I am sure whatever you grow will be beautiful! :D

EDIT...aha! Just noticed that you mentioned Stokes aster, Stokesia laevis. Could this be where the difference in opinion comes from? Stokesia are beautiful plants. Not known as asters here and rarely seen either. I would have no problem planting those in my garden!
Knowing without doing is like plowing without sowing."

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Jess
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Maine. Thanks for replying. It seems we agree on some things but not others. I wonder if that might be because of the different climates and possibly planting styles. Monarda is sought after here as a nectar plant for bees. The mildew covered by planting in front so only the flowers are really visible. I have not heard or seen evidence of it becoming invasive here. I have Cambridge Scarlet growing in a border and it has stayed relatively well behaved in the same area for may years. Macleaya is used in most of the long borders of the stately gardens in England and has an RHS award of garden merit! I do agree it is a bit of a beast in the wrong place but worth planting if space and restriction is possible. Here it tends to be planted with perennials of equal vigour, Acanthus etc. I did not know it stained, must take more notice next time I come in to contact with it.
Now Anemones...I have to agree with you completely on those. PIA= plant it anyway?
Always beautiful, welcome colour late in the season, vigorous but worth digging out and spreading around. Just something about anemones isn't there. I don't know anyone who doesn't like them.
Knowing without doing is like plowing without sowing."

NewjerseyTea
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James, To let you know how aggressive shasta daisies are in NJ, after I carefully removed all traces for a few years I thought I had won the battle only to have a long line of them appear in a area where the asphalt meets the concrete. They started growing in a couple of inches of soil that washed along the raised concrete and happily rooted in the asphalt. In my garden I replaced them with Penstemon digitalis (cultivar Husker Red) that blooms about the same time.

Jess, Those same asters you have trouble with in England are the stars of my autumn garden. I have billows of purple absolutely covered with benifical insects and butterflies.I counted 20 skippers on one plant last fall. I grow the big species asters (New England and New York ) in my hot humid garden with a few tricks. I place them among tall native grasses (switch, little blue stem, and indian grass) and other native plants like penstemon and black eyed susans so they are supported and the lower leaves aren't seen. I cut them back by half once or twice before July 15th.
My monarda does mildew but is pretty and it has no chance to spread since the garden is so packed it can't escape from it's spot.

cheshirekat
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I have some New England Aster seeds I got in a trade during winter. I haven't planted the seeds yet because I'm still waiting for other seeds to show up. I was diligently pulling weeds up until a couple weeks ago because some of the flower seeds I expected weren't showing up - I think I pulled them. I planted more seeds so now I'm itching to pull weeds that are starting to get out of control but want to make sure I'm not accidently pulling up plants I want.

I planted a lot of echinacea and blackeyed susans in and around other plants with the hope my flower spots would get thick enough to keep the weeds out better. It's not working as I hoped. In another spot, the poppy seeds I sowed are growing faster than the weeds so I'll be able to weed that spot without fear. It's too bad seedlings can't be bright pink when they emerge so I can differentiate them from the weeds.
"Love all God's creatures, the animals, the plants. Love everything to perceive the divine mystery in all." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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Jess
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NewjerseyTea wrote: Jess, I place them among tall native grasses (switch, little blue stem, and indian grass) and other native plants like penstemon and black eyed susans so they are supported and the lower leaves aren't seen. I cut them back by half once or twice before July 15th.
I have to admit that sounds really pretty. Perhaps I could start a new gardening trend in UK. Would still mean that I would have to dig out the roots and split them though so maybe not. :?
Knowing without doing is like plowing without sowing."

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Jess
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cheshirekat wrote: It's too bad seedlings can't be bright pink when they emerge so I can differentiate them from the weeds.
:lol: That would just make life too easy but maybe with all the genetic engineering going on with plants it could happen!
Knowing without doing is like plowing without sowing."

cheshirekat
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lorax, you are not alone. I never put weeds in my compost. When I found out that some weeds seeds, roots, etc., can be dormant for 50 years until conditions are just right for them to grow again, I decided I could never add weeds to my compost. Compost should get hot enough to kill off a lot of nasties but I can't take that chance. Just like you shouldn't put diseased stuff in the compost because bacteria and virus can survive inhospitable conditions.
"Love all God's creatures, the animals, the plants. Love everything to perceive the divine mystery in all." -Fyodor Dostoyevsky

TheLorax
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Hey cheshirecat, I'm wrong. applestar is right. Most of the plants I'm pulling haven't even bloomed. We're talking nothing but herbaceous plant foliage. And, if it had bloomed... she's right, I could have been deadheading the plants and I should have been feeding the composter everything but the seedheads.

I don't know if you knew this but, there are documented cases of lotus seed that have germinated that were hundreds of years old. Pretty wild how long some seed can remain viable.

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applestar
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Aww. You're making me blush :oops:

hdaviesmt
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After spending yet another 3 hours cutting and pulling weeds in the pasture and woods, I was so happy to see this topic! Burdock, Candian thistle, and comfrey are the bane of my existence :twisted: I am surrounded by Fish and Game, as well as Tribal, land that is infested with the stuff.

hdaviesmt
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Ooops, so happy to vent about the noxious weeds, that I didn't remember the topic was Plants to Avoid. I don't think anyone would consider planting any those three plants. Apologies!

queerbychoice
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My biggest problem has been with foxtails - especially because my fiancee, whose yard I'm doing my gardening in, has dogs. If the foxtails go to seed, they could get stuck in the dogs' skin and seriously harm them. And if I completely eradicate the foxtails from the yard, the yard immediately gets reseeded with foxtails the next time we take the dogs anywhere, because inevitably the dogs bring foxtails back home with them.

More broadly speaking, my biggest problem has been with grasses in general. I'm trying to plant native wildflowers in an area that used to be a lawn. The lawn keeps wanting to come back again and overrun the flowers.

eshenry
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Pig weed (AHHHH), morning glories, Zebra Grass (aka Johnson grass on steroids), KUDZU!

For those of you fortunate enough to be free of the menace of Kudzu, it was brought to the US as a forage crop. It grows a foot a day. It has been said (Lewis Grizzard) that a cow wont eat kudzu, but kudzu will flat eat a cow!.
Some people weave burlap into the fabric of our lives, and some weave gold thread. Both contribute to make the whole picture beautiful and unique.

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cherlynn
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[img]https://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll46/grammycherlynn/09-22-07006.jpg[/img]
About 3 years ago I planted Sunflower seeds. Being a novice gardener, I had no idea that I had planted Jerusalem Artichokes! :roll: I have developed a "Love/Hate" relationship with this thriving "sunflower". Even a small part of the tuber will grow into a plant. I have decided to just live with them where they serve the purpose of providing privacy in our yard, but I continue to pull them from areas they have become invasive...as in the photo above! They are pretty, though, but only for a couple of weeks!

I have yet to try the edible roots...Any good recipes out there?!?! :?:
cherlynn

wingdesigner
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Love to hate, almost anything that begins with the letter "L". Lamium, Lamiastrum (SP?), loostrife, lysmichia; then there's poison ivy/oak/sumac; nightshade; morning glories and bishop's weed (sooo sorry I ever started those!); goldenrod or ragweed--I can't tell the difference, but it spreads by runner; mints, common garlic (another "sorry I ever started that"); rose of sharon; the gazillion elm/maple seedlings every year; black raspberries.

Some I've welcomed: red-leaved crabapple; juniper w/blue berries; cedar trees; and even though I don't care for roses--I admire the volunteer climber that has sprouted up and grown in partial shade!
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rainbowgardener
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plants to hate

Hi - I'm new to this forum and still browsing through all the wonderful stuff here. Found this really old thread untouched for a yr and thought I'd add my 2 cents, because I thought it was really interesting what was and wasn't listed. I agree with a lot. Honeysuckle in bush and vine form is one of our worst plagues in my area. I never knew vinca/periwinkle was called flower of death, but it is appropriate; I've seen it kill a whole woods. English ivy is also easy to hate, but I can't believe no one mentioned poison ivy. It may not be quite as ready to take over a forest, but every year I suffer through one or two cases of painful itching misery.... Then there's bindweed (a form of morning glory, but bindweed is a good name, it binds up all the plants around it) and garlic mustard...
But someone listed monarda, ajuga, tradescantia (spiderwort) and rudbeckia, which are all plants I love, most native (except I think for the ajuga). No accounting for taste!

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To add to my earlier post of last year:

Bermuda grass

Kudzu (from when I lived in the South)--I lived in one house in Atlanta where the kudzu grew FROM a sunlit location TO a dark location under the front porch. It just didn't care whether there was sunlight or not; the area under the front porch was clearly Territory Yet To Be Conquered. Scary stuff.

Note to earlier poster: The story I was told was that kudzu was brought to the States as an erosion-control plant. I'm not even sure whether cows or other livestock *will* eat kudzu--but they'd sure better not stand still while that stuff is around!

Cynthia H.
Sunset Zone 17, USDA Zone 9

eshenry
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Yes your story is correct, but the lovely southern tall tale is cute.
Some people weave burlap into the fabric of our lives, and some weave gold thread. Both contribute to make the whole picture beautiful and unique.

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applestar
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About Kudzu -- Kudzu is a very EXPENSIVE starch highly regarded in macrobiotic diet, that is used like tapioca starch. My favorite way to eat it is as a tapioca pudding-like desert, although you can use it in any recipe that calls for starch.

I was reminded of a quaint book I have... It's a Japanese "healthy/natural living" book of traditional Japanese hand-crafted foods. According to the descriptions given by a famous premium artisanal processor, the kudzu roots are harvested between December and April when the starch content is highest (even then, only about 10%), The roots are pulverized with water from artesian wells, then filtered to remove all fiberous material. After 7 or 8 changes of water over the course of 2 weeks (usually in -5~-10ºC weather -- kudzu ferments easily an cannot be processed in the warmer weather) the starch water is filtered again, and the starch is allowed to subside (there's a word for this process that escapes me) for 3~4 days. The starch is then dried naturally without using any heat (which degrades the quality of the starch) for 50~60 days. "Genuine kudzu starch takes all winter to process."

Beebe
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Rainbowgardner-
I'm in Ohio also and HATE honey suckle. Its growing on all three sides of my backyard. There are two that are so big they are full grown trees. They are taking over my neighbors burning bushes....ugh,stupid honeysuckle!!!

moosetracker
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mugwort or wild chrysanthemum I planted Mums one year, the next year this grew and I stupidly thought I was getting mums. When it didn't flower in the fall, I was disappointed. By the next year it was all over the garden and I have been fighting to get rid of it ever since. they have runners all over the place so even if I get what I can see, they will be back anyway.



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