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watermelonpunch
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Location: Pennsylvania USA

Seeking Tips for shade bed under maple that gets late sun

I have a shaded bed under a proper big maple tree, that gets evening sun. And most of the advice for shade areas is talking about morning sun it seems. But this area gets some direct afternoon, late afternoon, & evening sun across the area.

Northeastern Pennsylvania (residential neighborhood in city of Scranton, adjacent a large field)
Gardening zone 6a, bordering 5b

Best guess @ Soil Conditions:
Stones & a bit rocky.
Slightly on the sandy side.
Probably a bit toward the alkaline.
50+ year old coal ash is a common find in our yard when I dig.

Background: Previous occupants started to make some kind of flat stone area under big maple tree in the back yard.
Currently: It's a pebbly dirt bed with some maple roots, various weeds grow, & it's outlined with flat rocks. (The rocks are large & dug in, or I would've just put it back to lawn! But since it's there...)

Facing to southwest.
Image
Around 5pm local time, yesterday.

Image

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To the southwest is a field, and winds come off the field regularly & sometimes sustained 30mph with stronger gusting. At the least, most days there is a breeze coming off the field.

This whole bed area spends the entire morning & until afternoon in shade.

The sun (right now in May), starts creeping into the west corner (upper right in 1st picture) around 2:30pm, and moves to get sun on it all until about an hour before sunset, (until around 7pm).
So at the longest days of summer, none of it gets more than 5 hours of sun.
And the east corner probably only gets about 1/2 hour sun in the morning, and maybe an hour or less in the evening.

I wouldn't call it "deep shade" because it's bright around it once it gets to be late morning. But definitely shadier than "dappled" shade, if that makes sense.

This picture was taken at 9am in the morning last week:
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The bed under the maple is behind the middle onion flower.

Like in this picture, the bed is about 8ft behind the front of the shed:
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This picture was taken at 8pm the other day.
So as you can see, we have plenty of trees in our backyard, but it's not like "woodsy". It's pretty bright & open even in the shade.
For example, in the summer, it's much nicer to sit on the other side of the yard (behind from the point of view of photo #1), because the shade of those trees is cooler, no matter what time of day.
I'm not really sure why or how to explain that. It's just not very cool under that maple.

And here's a picture of the area (maple tree at left) in the winter:
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So obviously all perennials would have to be hardy. ;)

Lambs Quarters & Dandelions seem to like cropping up there.
Also, some unidentified weed that appears there later in the summer.
Garlic mustard & clover grows profusely in some of my borders & beds around the yard, but does NOT seem to like it in that area. If that gives any relevant information about the conditions.

Spouse says: "Can't you sprinkle some seeds & plant some ferns there instead of weeds?"

ha ha. He's a big fan of ferns. And aside from this being the 2nd summer we're here, and looking at that area... he also doesn't want to have to keep weed whacking the weeds out of it.

Caveat: We're on a very tight budget.

So I've been working on pulling the weeds, taking out the larger stones, and maybe can put compost/poop leftover from the vegetable garden I can put on it. Otherwise, I don't want to do a whole lot of soil amendment or formal expensive mulching, or buy anything too fancy.

Note: I'm a big fan of wildflowers, native plants, plants grown for foliage rather than flowers, and "cottage gardening". Not looking to win a garden award here... just looking for stuff which might actually grow there!!

I'm looking for ideas, and I'm not in any hurry. We've dealt with it this long just being weedy, after all.
So perennials from seeds is okay. And I'm not worried about having flowers... foliage that's not weeds would be good enough really.

So if you want to just throw out some suggestions of anything you think might like it there, or that you've had some experience with in similar conditions... let me know.
Thanks!

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applestar
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Tossing out some ideas --

Heuchera (coral bells) should do well there and there are so many foliage colors and patterns, plus the dainty blooms. Maybe Tiarella if there is more moisture. Mine declined due to insufficient moisture.

I tried Green and Gold in similar situation under a Willow Oak tree, but lost them either due to drought or due to inadequate marking combined with deeply drifted piles of fall leaves -- you may have better luck. I have lemon balm growing there now. They are ruthlessly cut down several times a year and, combined with serious drought conditions, they can't grow rampantly which I think they would otherwise.

You may be OK with Iris cristata. It seems to be more drought tolerant than I feared.

If you want something really tall, elderberries seem to manage OK.

Wild strawberries (Fragaria virginiana)

Daffodils and lily of the valley.

...would you consider a 2 hr drive to Yellow Springs Farm? They have their native plant sale this weekend (Sat/Sun) and next Sat. Maybe there are other places closer to you.

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watermelonpunch
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Location: Pennsylvania USA

Thanks for suggestions!
Going to look everything up.

Lily of the Valley

There seems to be some confusion (for me) about just how much sun these things need.

I have lily of the valley... too much in another bed. So I was considering moving some over there.
However, I'm also considering how to make a barrier underneath the soil, to contain them. Judging by how they took over another flowerbed (before I got here), I want to be cautious about them, because pulling them out of open soil was bad enough... I dread to think what it might be like to have to thin them after they've spread between tree roots! :eek: ha ha!
But my husband likes them. So I was thinking of putting them at one edge/corner, where he'll have easy access to them.

Daffodils

I have some of those too in another bed next to the house where they do not bloom or did not do so hot the past 2 springs, so I planned to move them too. I already transplanted a bunch of them. But I've been transplanting them to another flowerbed that's got even weirder problems. It's got probably the best soil in the whole yard (other than my vegetable plot), it's in full sun in the spring until the leaves are on the trees. But then half of it gets sun most of the day, and the other half is in shade of some kind of small cherry tree.
But the big problem in this bed is that it's really close to a Black Walnut tree!!
But daffodils supposedly don't mind black walnut trees.

Last fall, not knowing the issues involved in black walnut leaves... I allowed the black walnut tree leaves to lie on the bed all winter. I think that's why my beautiful silene died over the winter.
However, the sedum did just fine. And those ornamental onions seem to love it there.

Coral Bells

The problem I foresee with this would be the pH factor. I'm almost certain all my soil is leaning toward the alkaline.
The reason I think this? Because everything that seems to grow well or grow naturally near, around, and even in my yard, seems to be stuff that either doesn't mind alkaline soil, or actually likes it!!
And I heard that the rose bush here didn't bloom much before, and was just hobbling along. And last year when my mother was here in May, she put used coffee around it... and it bloomed really nicely quite a bit.

But I really don't want to have to be putting coffee a lot. ha ha

And it sounds like coral bells really prefer more acidic soil.
So I'd want to find out if people have had any luck with any varieties in not so acidic, before trying that.

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applestar
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Well, oak leaves are said to be on the acidic side, plus root zone of oak tree promotes fungal activity -- which lowers pH some more -- so I think you have a better chance of growing coral bells here.

Susan W
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A temporary measure, at least for this season, would be mulching and resting. You can mow, leave any grass/weed there. Scatter some bagged poo. Then the newspapers,more poo and top soil, a 2" total would do. Water well. Then you can do the mulch such as shredded hardwood. This would clean the area, make tree happy, and give you time to think about any plantings. The tree roots are sucking moisture and nutrients, which makes any plantings difficult at best.

Especially if this is a new house to you, think how you use the space. Some areas are just there, mostly ignored. If it is a place you may put a couple of chairs & small table could do a few containers for summer color.

Just some thoughts

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watermelonpunch
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Location: Pennsylvania USA

applestar wrote:Well, oak leaves are said to be on the acidic side, plus root zone of oak tree promotes fungal activity -- which lowers pH some more -- so I think you have a better chance of growing coral bells here.
OH... hmmmm, I hadn't thought of this chemistry angle. LOL Thanks... That certainly is something to consider before giving up on something that likes it "slightly acidic". It may very well be more acidic there. I really have no way to know.

By fungal activity... what does that mean?
I don't necessarily see any mushrooms around there.
We get LOADS of kooky crazy creepy huge mushrooms heading into autumn... but mainly under and around the fir trees (pretty sure they're firs).

I did notice today, while working on the area, when I cleared away some weeds & debris near one of the maple's above ground roots (huge)... on the "darker side" there is some moss growing, though it doesn't look thrilled.
Not sure if that's good, bad, or irrelevant.
And I have no idea what kind of moss.

@ Susan W
Yeah I was already thinking about this spot last summer.

We really don't like actually sitting under that tree.
But it's in full view of everywhere in the back yard. So that's kind of the situation with it.

It's kind of muggy under there. Hard to explain. It doesn't stay very cool under there. I'm assuming because the sun is beating down just 10ft away for 8 to 10 hours of the day.
It's much cooler under other trees in the yard.
Add to that if it's windy, it's really windy right there. And I mean when it's windy we're not talking about a welcome breeze, it's like a wind tunnel. LOL
We don't get strong winds like that in PA usually, but the winds off that field are bizarrely strong & sustained. OTOH, I like it because I like kite flying, so living right next to a big field where I can fly kites is really great. No Charlie Brown moments in this field! lol
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That's a pretty big box kite (the kind you fly at a beach on the coast!)

Anyway, early last summer we had the picnic table under that tree, and once it was halfway through June, that was abandoned, because it was either hot or windy, or the sun is in your eyes.
We suspect that could be partly why the previous occupants abandoned their gravel & stone plan.
We keep the picnic table closer to the house. And I just take out lawn chairs to sit in the back of the yard on nice days...

Nothing movable can be left out in the back yard there or it will travel when winds get strong.
The previous couple who lived here had left a fire bowl in the back yard. And we hadn't thought much of it, until one day the winds kicked up and sent the spark guard lid sailing clear across the lawn and nearly hit my husband's Miata convertible... with a soft top! It was only a few feet away.
So that was that, he parks his car close to the house on the opposite side from the field. And we're careful to weight everything down that must stay where it is. The wind's taken the grill cover off the grill even with 2 bricks holding it down on either side!!

So anyway by last July I'd started removing the inconsistent & unevenly dispersed layer of stones & pebbles.
I had actually planned to prepare it somehow last year, but was short on time & money, and I had some health problems to boot... Now I'm mostly just short on money. Hopefully soon I'll be short on time, but not so short on money. :/

At that point it let loose a lot of weeds growing. But at least they were growing evenly once I'd cleared it. lol So it mainly just looked like a mass of green foliage. The weeds, thankfully were mostly lambs quarters and this other weed I don't know what it was.
When it would get to near a foot high I'd have my husband mow it all down with the weed whacker thing, before things could flower.
We left the debris lay more & more because we didn't see a point of removing it.. As more weeds were whacked, less weeds grew until the fall when basically it was just a mulch of weed debris.
After the 1st frost when the leaves started falling, I had him weed whack it once more, and very close to the ground.
Then when the leaves fell in fall, I actually put several more heaps of leaves over the area.
And left it piled up all winter.
I didn't touch it until the other day. And I have to say... it's interesting how all those leaves mostly disappeared!!
I'm assuming most of the leaves and all that weed debris kind of deteriorated into the ground there?
Because I basically only removed a few crunchy leaves from between the big stones the other day.
So I'm also assuming that's why the soil is looking a whole lot more like something you would plant in than it did last year!
So I guess in a way the soil was already amended... if a bit fast & loose.

I'm going to make that a term now... Like for gardening styles... I don't cottage garden... I'm into "Fast & Loose Gardening". ha ha ha

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applestar
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Green whacked weeds ++layered with++ brown fall Leaves = compost pile :D



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