moonflower seeds

[Paperwhite newbie]

You guys have given me such great advice for Amaryllis, what do you know about moonflowers? I have one seedling that is growing, slowly but it is growing. I have planted several seeds and this is the only one that has sprouted. Does bottom warmth really help them to sprout or does it matter. The only place I have to do that is the pellet stove, I can put an tin pie pan on the stove and put the plastic pot on it, do you think that would help?

[Bobberman]

I grow moon flowers every year and have lots of extra seeds. PM me if you want some. Mine are the bush type not the climbers. They open in the evening and early morning! There roots are not very many and seem to be like one main tap root! Once ou grow them they seem to come up the next year in many places! Mine get about 3 feet by 3 feet! I let some grow in the greenhouse all summer! They have a jaggy ball that looks like a buckeye or chestnut shell with lots of brown seeds inside! it should grow anywhere easily!

[applestar]

You don't want to cook the seeds. Aim for soil temp of 75-85°F

A double-boiler like arrangement -- maybe old broiler or roaster, rimmed cookiesheet/jelly roll pan with cooling rack -- with water in it and containers of seeds sown in moistened potting/seed starting mix on the rack. I woud use a cover to prevent drying out -- even the roaster cover could work as long as the seeds are not the kind tht need light to sprout. Verify temp with thermometer.

(--- Have you noticed that many kitchen tools/utensils are useful for gardening?)

[Paperwhite newbie]

I have a paper bag with a whole bunch of seeds in it, the seeds are flat and light brown now, when they came out of the pods of course they were bigger and fatter. Is there any reason why the others have not come up?

[rainbowgardener]

If they are flat, sounds like they might be too dried out. I save moonflower seeds and they do shrink in storage, but just get smaller not flat.

Even so, I always soak moonflower seeds for 24 hrs or so in slightly warm water before planting. Much better germination rate that way. And yes, I do start them on the heat mat.

[Paperwhite newbie]

Here is a picture of the seeds I have, I have startedto soak 15 seeds,hoping SOME of them will sprout. I have them in a sherbet bowl with water and rubbing alcohol, if anyone can tell me how to make these things sprout I would be thankful. I know it is still winter, but I am hoping to have some sprouts to put out after the last frost. They say for our area is April 15th.

[Bobberman]

My seeds are much smaller and all a brown tan!.

[Paperwhite newbie]

Well I know that they are moonflower seeds because I have some of the pods that they came out of. Do they require both warmth and light to sprout in the water?

[rainbowgardener]

The water isn't to sprout them, it's just to re-hydrate them. I just soak them 24 hrs or so and then put them in the potting soil.

I have never seen flat moonflower seeds like that. The ones I have purchased and the ones I save myself are always round. Soaking them is also a test. The ones that soak up water get bigger and heavier and sink to the bottom. If they stay floating on top, they are probably dead.

You have mentioned the rubbing alcohol before. What is that for? I never heard of putting alcohol in with the seeds. Usually alcohol kills things.

[applestar]

Considering that the rubbing alcohol/water solution stunted paper white narcissi, I'm not sure soaking seeds in them is a good idea.

I have heard that soaking seeds in weakly acid solution of freshly brewed tea or coffee helps to soften the seed coat. Stronger bleach solution can be used for less than 30 min soak (in case of tomato seeds) but requires thorough rinsing before attempting to germinate. I could see a quick dunk in alcohol (solution) as being beneficial for eliminating any surface fungi/bacteria but would rinse off afterwards (in sterile water). I would tend to soak in AACT rather than sterilizing though.

I agree that my recollection of moonflower seeds is not like those pictured... Sort of wedge-shaped -- round on one side and triangular on the other... Like giant morning glory seeds.

But I seem to remember several species having common name of "moonflower". My idea of moonflower is evening/night blooming, scented large white trumpet shaped blooms with large heart-shaped leaves and winding vine up to 10-12 feet -- Basicaly giant night blooming morning glory.

Maybe a picture of what you will be growing to settle the matter?

[hendi_alex]

I usually just place two moonflower seeds into 5-6 inch pots in mid April. They usually germinate pretty well with at least one seed always sprouting. When the plants get 8-12 inches tall, they are moved to their permanent location. What a wonderful site, when those huge white blooms open in the evening or sometimes open earlier when the sky is overcast. We occasionally see a sphinx moth moving from flower to flower. That also is a wonderful experience.

[rainbowgardener]

You said you have the seed pods. Are they these:




These are not all the way ripe. Once they ripen and you open them they will have usually two, but anywhere between 1 - 4 round white seeds in them.

These are the seed pods of the moonflower applestar and I are talking about which is closely related to morning glory.

[Paperwhite newbie]

No, the onesI have are green and have prickly points all over them, they get dried and then they burst open and show the seeds, should I just throw the ones I showed you out? I don't want to waste time trying to grow something that is dried out, it would be disappointing to say the least. They are flat and kind of oval shaped.

[applestar]

Ah ha! I believe you are growing a datura species which is another plant commonly called moonflower. Completely different species.

They are related to tomatoes and eggplants so those seeds look pretty much the right shape. Watch out for Colorado potato beetles. In my garden, they preferred Jimsonweed over potatoes and I was able to use them as trap crop.

...so what was the question again? Oh, right, how to grow them.... I think you can probably start them same way as tomatoes or peppers. Bottom heat is likely to be helpful. But I've never tried growing the ornamental varieties before, and the weeds grow on their own outside.

[Mr_bobo_]

Yes I can confirm that's seeds from Datura...
...I was have it at home, annual variety...
...I'm sure that seed will sprout... looks ok...
...and plant it in space where they will have enough space to grow...
...to they not suppress other plants...

...this is seed pods of Datura about what ''Paperwhite newbie'' was talking...



...now I only have big ones in big pots...
...this color and yellow...

[Paperwhite newbie]

I have everything on a heating pad, there are 3 pots and a bowl with 5 moonvine seeds soaking, two pots have moonvine seeds in them and the other has the datura seeds and two seedlings. I have the pad on medium heat, can anyone tell me just how long to have the heating pad on? I was wondering how long it would take the seeds to sprout. I did a boo-boo, I dug around to see if anything was sprouting, I put all the moonvine in one pot and there were a few with a good root, I did not hurt the root and I put them back in the pot and misted them. I had to throw one away, I got it out of the package and it was cut and when I soaked it it fell apart and was all mushy and icky! Here is my set up. The towel you see on the bottom is the heating pad I thought I had better put something on it to protect it, it is brand new.

[Mr_bobo_]

LOL you've done the whole philosophy around a simple plant...
...I wondering why you sow seed's in pots inside... ?

...Datura is annual... so you can saw it direct in soil in spring...
...ok you can in pots outside as well and then replant on permanent location...

[Paperwhite newbie]

The reason I start the seeds in pots is that I want to get a early start in the spring, and I figure if I can grow them in the house big enough, I can transplant them in the spring and maybe they will bloom for me, if I can get at least one to bloom I will be VERY happy! Can you tell me if they will bloom for me this year or do I have to wait several years?

[Mr_bobo_]

The reason I start the seeds in pots is that I want to get a early start in the spring, and I figure if I can grow them in the house big enough, I can transplant them in the spring and maybe they will bloom for me,

...yes, logical thinking...
...well, I have problem because I don't know where you live and what kind of clime you have at the moment...

...here is one meter snow (at the moment) and I can't work in garden at least month and half...

if I can get at least one to bloom I will be VERY happy! Can you tell me if they will bloom for me this year or do I have to wait several years?

Datura wrightii is plant which grow quickly and in one season it can grow like this
...and I'm 100% sure you will get not only one flower... you will get many more... because one flower can't live long... 2-3 days maximum...

[rainbowgardener]

What to expect depends on what you have, which is still not clear to me.

You said:

3 pots and a bowl with 5 moonvine seeds soaking, two pots have moonvine seeds in them and the other has the datura seeds and two seedlings.

I don't know how you are differentiating between what is "moonvine" (moonflower?) and what is datura. All your seeds in the picture looked the same and did not look like what I call moonflower.

There are a bunch of different daturas, some are annuals and some are perennial. The annuals will bloom this season and then be done. The perennials will probably also bloom this season and then come back next year.

Depending on conditions, it may take up to three weeks for your datura seeds to sprout, and likely they won't all sprout at once. Once sprouted, they are fast growing, which is why some people don't bother starting them indoors. My moonflowers I plant indoors just a couple weeks before average last frost date, and I still end up with a big tangle of vines under the lights.

[Paperwhite newbie]

I have both, the moonvines which look like a hard kernal of corn only just a little bigger and the little moonflower seed which came out of the spiny pods. That is the two that I have. This is the moonvine seeds, and the next post is the Datura.

[Paperwhite newbie]

here is the other one, the Datura.

[Paperwhite newbie]

My moonvine seeds are sprouting! I was going to move all the seeds into one pot and I looked into the little green pot, and there is another one! you are right, Datura is not a fast sprouter, but the moonvines are!

[rainbowgardener]

Great, you did a great job of sprouting your moonflower! Now what are you going to do with it until mid-April or early May when you can plant it outside (depending on what part of Ohio you are in), by which time it will be 5 feet tall?

[Paperwhite newbie]

Here it is today, this is since yesterday, I hope it won't get that tall, otherwise it may become a problem. I would be nice if I could train it like I was going to do the morning glories. I hadn't thought of that, guess with all the research I did on them, I overlooked that part. I guess we will cross that bridge when we come to it, I have the two halves of the dowel rods that I used for the Amaryllis, maybe that will help. They are sure sprouting fast, I now have 3 more trying to sprout. I read that they would grow fast, but I never thought they would grow THAT fast!

[Mr_bobo_]

Now what are you going to do with it until mid-April or early May when you can plant it outside (depending on what part of Ohio you are in), by which time it will be 5 feet tall?

LOL yes, for sure... it will be big...
...give them lot of light... to they not grow even more with trying to get more light...

[Paperwhite newbie]

Is this the way to start the moonflower vine to twining? It said when they are 1-2 inches tall. The dowel rods are the only thing I have to twine around right now and I MAY have a problem, but not sure yet. As you can see the other one is sprouting rather quickly. If this is not the right way please let me know. Thanks for your help.

[Paperwhite newbie]

I have a question, will the moonflower bloom indoors? I have two seedlings up and completely out of the soil and 4 more on the way, do they have to have supports or can they be one big happy mess? I read somewhere that they produce more flowers when crowded and boy are they. I forgot how many I put in there, the Datura is doing quite nicely, and the second one is doing just fine too. Here is a picture of all of the seedlings and the sprouts just coming up.

[Bobberman]

That is the seed of my moon flowers. The jaggy pods! I just sent some seeds to one of the members and included 4 runner beans!

[Paperwhite newbie]

I have a question, several of my moonflower vine seedlings have a hole in them, I have 3 of them so far that have the holes in them. Will that hurt them or is it nothing to be worried about? Here is what I mean... They are inside and as far as I know there are no bugs, so what is causing it? Could it be where the seed coat was? Maybe I tore it when I took the seed coat off?

[rainbowgardener]

Definitely you tore it when you took the seed coat off. All those wrinkles are pretty jammed in to each other with it all folded together and the new leaf is very tender. You are better off letting the plant deal with the seed coat as nature intended, unless after several days it is really struggling. By then the leaf will have hardened and the seed coat will have dried out and it will be easier to help without tearing.

Good news is it doesn't matter. These are the seed leaves which will drop off eventually anyway after the plant has some true leaves.

[Paperwhite newbie]

Thanks rainbowgardener, I was hoping it was something like that, I was looking in the little green pot I have and a Datura seed is sprouting, I forgot I had planted any in there! I have 9 moonflower vines now, oh boy!

[Mr_bobo_]

Because first leaves are not perfect, don't worry...
...the only important thing is that they are green, because they will give food and do photosynthesis...
...give plant lot of light...

[Paperwhite newbie]

Does anyone have any pictures of what the true leaves are going to look like? And can anyone tell me where they will start to form at? I have ANOTHER one sprouting in the pot with the ones that are already in there!

[rainbowgardener]

The moonflower vine leaves are heart-shaped and pretty:

[Mr_bobo_]

...ranibow, I don't think she have that kind of ''moonflower''

[rainbowgardener]

I think she does have both datura and moonflower as pictured. The seed leaves shown definitely look like those of this kind of moonflower, which is the one I grow.

Incidentally for paperwhite. That's not my pic, just one from Google images. But that is probably ONE moonflower vine pictured.

[Paperwhite newbie]

You are correct rainbowgardener, I have both kinds, if that is just one moonflower vine, I need to get rid of several, to date in one pot I have 10 seedlings! I found some potting soil at the dollar store for $5, I think I should repot them now instead of waiting for the true leaves, it is getting harder to water them with the misting bottle. I guess I could try bottom watering and see what that does, So far, knock on wood, no more moonflower vine sprouts coming up. Bobberman sent me some scarlet runner beans, I have no idea how to plant them or where I grow them, I did glance at a web page and they said they climb too. I can't plant them with the moonflower vine can I?

[applestar]

Yes they get big! Planted moonflower vines in front of the west-facing front porch one year, thinking they would help shade a 4 ft section of the porch from the setting sun. After thinning, I probably had 4 plants. I hung strings from screweyes set in the eaves and held taut by tying the ends to big nails sunk in the ground next to the seedlings. One they started to climb, it didn't matter that the bottoms of the strings were not very secured

By August, these vines completely obscured area I wanted shaded -- and meant it to be dappled green lit not DARK JUNGLE (As soon as they were established they grew multiple side shoots.) They had reached the porch ceiling and were working on getting around the eaves up to the rain gutter.

By the end of August DH expressed concern in no uncertain terms that he thought these vines are going to rip down the rain gutter during an impending arrival of a hurricane.

They were covered with flowers all season, however, and bloomed and emitted their fragrance in the evening to greet us. With the house blocking the morning sun, they stayed open longer for us to see them in the morning, too.

They are related to sweet potatoes and will need room for large root systems. I hope you are planning on at least a 5 gal bucket/container per vine.
If you have a large trellis area, I suppose they could share with the runner beans -- say from opposite ends -- and the combination of white and red blooms might prove to be interesting, but it's very likely that they would compete with and overwhelm eachother. In my garden at least, runner beans are slow to get going and may be suppressed by the moonflower vine if they start vining first.

[Paperwhite newbie]

How often can you transplant moonflower vine seedlings? I don't have that many 5 gal. buckets and no room for them if I did, are you saying it might be a good idea to get rid of most of them before they get too much bigger? I got those pots from the dollar store I was thinking of two seedlings per pot. I certainly have enough for that.