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Gary350
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Re: Tennessee 2021 Garden

imafan26 wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:09 am
I'm jealous. How do you get so many peppers? I can get lots of hot peppers but the bell peppers elude me. If I am lucky, and I plant a giant variety I may get 3-5 good sized peppers and that is it. There won't be anymore or they will be minis. I grow them mostly in 1 gallon pots, if they survive that I pot them up to larger pots. (Usually only the hot peppers make it to the bigger pots). I grow them in either potting soil or peat lite and they are fertilized with 6-4-6 with micros. I do have a lot of issues with bacterial spot and nematodes so that is why most of the peppers are in pots in the first place and I only have a few peppers that are not giant varieties that are resistant to bacterial spot. They produce small peppers at best. My hours of daylight are max just short of 14 hours and the minimum around 11 hours. Temperature 69-81 this year.
Sweet bell peppers need a big root system to support a larger plant. I have learned peppers do not like our hard TN soil but if I add lots of peat moss to make soil soft so roots can grow quick & easy plants do many times better. Our soil is not too hard for other plants but is too hard for peppers. Plants do not like our hot weather so I plant them under the east side of a shade tree so they get a few hours of early morning sun coolest time of the morning. I want my plants to have no direct sun from 12 noon to dark. I use 6-12-12 fertilizer. Too much nitrogen plants grow 7 ft tall with not many peppers. Plants need P & K. P is for large roots and K produces lots of blossoms that become peppers. Our last frost is April 20 I plants peppers in the garden about April 20 sometimes April 1st tiny plants are easy to cover up if we get more frost. We have a very short spring we often have 85 to 90 degree temperatures by June 1st if I can keep plants out of the hot sun & hot temperature we might get a 2 or 3 peppers in spring. Not many peppers if any all summer plants don't like our hot weather. Plants grow larger all summer then when weather changes Oct 1st cool weather plants load up with about 60 blossoms each that will all become peppers as long as the soil continues to have plenty of P & K. If soil has P & K shortage plants drop the blossoms. Plants need to continue to have a small amount of N but not much. Cutting off leaves has turned out to be very helpful to produce larger peppers & more peppers. If too much of the plants energy goes into growing leaves you get smaller peppers & fewer peppers. If you can't plant peppers in your garden soil then try a 20 gallon pot. After my plants are 5 ft tall I get very greedy with nitrogen I fertilize them with 0-20-20 most of the summer then give them more 6-12-12 late Sept so plants load up with blossoms. Limbs get very heavy with peppers they need to be tied up or use tomato cages to hold them up so limbs don't break off. Roots like even soil moisture they do very well for me planted in garden soil. If soil moisture gets too low plant will drop blossoms.

If your winter temperatures are anything like Arizona winter, now is a very good time to grow sweet bell peppers. I planted peppers Nov 1 in AZ it was 65 degrees during the day Dec to Feb plants stayed loaded with peppers for 3 month. Full sun in winter was no problem for sweet bell peppers.
Last edited by Gary350 on Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Thanks Gary. I do have 18 gallon pots, so I will try a few of my best producing peppers in them to see if they will do better and produce longer. I do have a couple of 22.5 diameter resin whiskey barrel pots, that hold about 2-2.5 cu. ft of soil. The snails ate the beans I planted so, maybe I will move them and try peppers instead. They won't need the trellis. I can support peppers with stakes or a small tomato cage instead. The small tomato cages are worthless for tomatoes but do o.k. to support peppers and eggplant. It is not working so well to support the ajaka basil. That one I will need to add more stakes and strings for support or use a fencing cage. It is just too tall. It is almost 4 ft tall. The hot peppers that are not too tall do o.k. in egg cans. I only put super chilies in 18 gallon pots because they live for years and can get 6-10 ft tall if I don't cut them back. Shorter lived hot peppers like jalapenos are in 3-5 gallon pots. They only sometimes live over a second year, but get very woody and do not produce much peppers in the third year if they live that long.

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“ The hot peppers that are not too tall do o.k. in egg cans.”
— @imafan, what is an egg can? Speculating it’s a container you are re-purposing?

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Gary350
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There are lots of good information videos on YouTube. I found 2 theory's about cutting 50% to 90% of plants leaves off for the purpose of growing larger fruit. About 2 weeks ago I found a video that claims, if you cut 90% of the leaves off of sweet bell pepper plants 1 month before firsts frost plants put all their energy into growing large mature pepper with fertile seeds for reproduction. I have also found several videos that claim, cut off leaves a month before first frost so plants use their last remaining energy to produce larger fruit from a root system that is now 2 or 3 times larger than the plant.

When I worked at the apple peach orchard 50 years ago they allowed new trees to grow for 5 years before pruning them. They claim cutting off 50% of the tree limbs makes the roots 2 times larger than the tree then fruit will grow much larger, produce more blossoms & not drop blossoms.

If I accidently learned something new from experimenting I try it again and try to learn why it works better. Comparing several different plants is like comparing several different animals, dogs, cats, cows, squirrels, turtles. Sometimes I never know why something works I just know that is does work for ME, in my soil & my weather. My garden soil use to be farm land it is better soil with improvements I made, it is better soil but sweet bell peppers still don't like my soil they need softer soil for easy to grow roots. I can plant hot chili peppers in 98 degree full sun all day they do very well but sweet bell pepper don't like hot sun & do better with only 6 hours of direct sunlight early morning coolest part of the day.

YouTube videos very seldom tell you their, geographical location, their weather conditions, their summer high temperature, first frost, last frost, rain fall, day length, growing season length, what works for them may not work for me or you. We plant like this and this is what happens. ?????. Books are the same way, plant like this & this is what happens.

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Gary350
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I tried to pull up 1 pac choy plant for lunch salad but got 3 plants, seeds must have been planted very close together. Pac choy will keep good in the refrigerator until dinner. I cut off more sweet bell pepper plant leaves there are several peppers hiding under those leaves.
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I made a 32" wide 34 foot long carrot bed with mulch for planting 2350 carrot seeds. There are 1 bed 14' long to plant 1000 Imperial 58 seeds, another 14" bed to plant 1000 Chantenay carrot seeds. The 6' bed is for 350 Kuroda Shin carrot seeds. I am testing 3 different varieties to see if one will grow a good crop of carrots. I paid $6 for seeds maybe I can grow a whole $1 worth of carrots this time. No matter what size harvest we get carrots are yummy. I have plenty of extra space so no reason not to try something different. I have grown in a sand bed before but never in mulch. Fresh ground wood mulch probably has zero nitrogen and will probably use up all the nitrogen in the soil below it might not be a good choice but better than buying $500 of bag potting soil. Mulch is 6" deep. I sprinkled 3 gallons of very fine soil over top of the carrot seeds.
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Pac Choy plants are larger than plants I see in the grocery store & they have very good flavor. I found a very large flying grass hopper on 1 of the plants. It is probably not good to get this little guy go but I turned him loose in the sweet potato leaves. First frost is 1 week away.
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Gary, that is a Bird Grasshopper. I've seen those here and in a friends garden. Their main diet is grass but you may want to destroy it to be on the safe side. Bird grasshoppers are called so because they fly rapidly over long distances.

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Every day rain is a problem beans try to sprout inside the pods. If I wait longer beans will sprout then mold & mildew then flavor will be terrible & can not be waste away even with vinegar so beans can not be eaten. Beans are a 65 day crop, it has been 60 days. I laid boards in the mud to walk over to pick 1 plant. Several nice beans in the pods for soup or something else. Maybe they will be good in a salad. I could make bean sprouts for salad. 3 days of rain so far. 7am this morning it was still dark TN & KY are covered with black clouds. These are called, Cranberry Beans they are nice large beans.
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Romain Lettuce is growing good, best lettuce I have ever grown, I did something right this time. 34' row with plants about 6" apart and about 1/2 of the row is growing.

Pac Choy is getting very large and has excellent flavor. I love this much better than lettuce. I like the crunchy tender sweet stems like celery. Leaves are better than lettuce. Good on tacos & sandwiches too.

400 onion plants near the house are doing excellent they were planted at the perfect time for bulbs to root and grow all winter.
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I trimmed more leaves from the pepper plants before rain started. My biggest problem with a winter garden is mud & water I can not get to the plants to harvests them. I can't find boots my size. Even with rubber booths it would be hard to walk in 5" deep mud, I loose my shoes in deep mud. I wish there was a trick to harvest a few peppers every week all summer instead of 45 pepper all at the same time.
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Kennebec potatoes & Russet potato eyes are sprouting they know it is time to grow. I don't want to grow more potatoes now and don't want to grow Russets but Russets have always grown excellent for me in winter if I can keep them above the mud & water so they don't rot. I hate to throw good seed potatoes in the trash, maybe I plant them anyway. Mother nature is messing up my plans to plant potatoes March 1st. Irish people plant potatoes before the soil freezes, why do Americans plant potatoes in the spring, because that is what I was taught. Most of our winter is rain it is not fun to work in cold rain & cold mud. I need to think about this for a week or so, should I plant another row of potatoes that I don't need.
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Rain & clouds make these 3 rows & beds show up better. 75 garlic are looking good. Nothing happening in the center potato row and nothing will all winter, there should be a good crop of potatoes to dig up May 15. I hope 2350 carrot seeds germinate before it gets too cold to germinate it usually takes 3 weeks in 60 degree weather. March 1st I will plant 3 kinds of onions in the onion bed with garlic, about 400 onions. Candy onions, Walla Walla & Red Onions. Variety next year. Golf ball onions are just as good as large 3" slicer onions.
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I picked another Pac Choy plant there were 3 plants growing in the same location like before. Is this how Pac Choy grows 3 plants in a group?

Wife cooked chicken and I used 2 pieces for lunch salad. I ate the beans I picked 1 hour ago in the salad too. I have 1/2 a Pack Choy plant left I will eat it for dinner.

If I had 100 empty 5 gallon buckets per row in 100 rows = 10,000. buckets. That would be 50,000. gallons of water for summer garden. I set these 2 buckets out a week ago they are full of water already.
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Great bok chow, Gary! One of my favorite greens, since it is mild, and grows so fast. And it can be used in so many non-Asian dishes, which people are catching on to.

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I know it was a few days ago that Applestar asked about egg cans. Egg cans are just that. They are labeled egg cans. I think they are either 4 or 5 gallon tall cans.


The pac choi (pe chai) looks great. They are good for stir fry, soups and you can make kim chee with it too. Although won bok is the most common one for kim chee.

It is interesting to use them in a salad. It is very different. Sanitation and digestive problems are why most Asians always cook, blanch, or pickle their vegetables. They are rarely eaten raw in a traditional diet. You will only find raw vegetables, and not many at that in a westernized version of Asian food.

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Today I am looking at seeds trying to decide what to plant next year. Next year I will have several empty rows that need something to grow. 15 Bean Soup package has a lot of seeds to choose from. I want to grow Garbanzo beans, Cranberry beans, Large Lima beans. Navy Beans are the best but they are only 50 cents per can & 99 cents per 1 lb bag at the grocery store. No Great Northern beans they suck. don't like black beans either. I want to grow Lentils just to see what the plants look like and how well they grow. I have never grow Garbanzo beans. I will have 8 empty rows, 5 might become melons. 2 potato rows will be empty May 15. 2 carrot rows will be empty about May 25. 2 onion rows will be empty about July. 3 corn rows will be empty about July 25. I tested several beans they all germinate. About 30 years ago I planted a lot of grocery store dry beans, Dark Red Kidney beans were very good, we had several bags of beans in the pantry they were all good.

I found a picture of a garden house I would love to build.
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Today I am very surprised to find a dozen potato plants growing up through 7" of soil & mulch already they were planted Oct 15 that was 2 weeks ago. It has been warm in the 70s & 80s during the day. When I plant potatoes March 1st I never see plants until last week of April and harvest is August. If I plant potatoes April 1st I still see no plants until last week of April and harvest is still August. I have about 70 potatoes with eyes growing in a box that need to be planted.

Moles are making volcano soil mounds in many places I am scooping up the top soil and taking it to the garden. I sprinkled more soil over carrot seeds.

I cleaned all the old garlic out of the pantry some of the cloves are trying to grow so I filled in 20 blank places in the garlic bed. I found places to plant another 20 garlic in the bed too.

Tomatillos are growing every where I don't remember tossing bad tomatillos all over the garden but maybe I did. First frost is only 6 days away.

That last remaining tomato plant has ripe tomatoes.
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45 Kennebec potatoes planted 6" deep in a 27 foot long row. Better now than March 1st in frozen soil, ice, snow, mud, water.
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After lunch I made up my mind to plant the rest of my home grown seeds potatoes in Row 15 a short 27 ft long row spaced 5" apart with my 5" template. I have 35 Kennebec potatoes with eyes growing & about 15 potatoes with no eyes growing yet but eyes could still grow. I have 27 Russet potatoes with eyes growing to finish the row. I have 2 Red Pontiac potatoes planted between the Kennebec & Russets for my marker so I know where Kennebec end & Russets start. I have lots of tiny Russet potatoes some eyes not growing yet that I planted between the 5" spaced russet potatoes. This makes 65 potatoes spaced 5" apart plus all the extra potatoes is very near 100 potatoes. Maybe the no eye potatoes grow and maybe they don't, we will see. Plans to plant a 43 ft row of Kennebec potatoes March 1st is cancelled. All I need to do now is push all these potatoes down 5" then pull another 1" of soil up over the potatoes so they are 6" deep. We have 13 good size Kennebec baking potatoes left from our summer crop. .
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Frost warning tonight 35°F. I picked all the sweet bell peppers. Tomorrow we cut them & freeze them.

56 sweet bell peppers weigh 9.1 lbs from 4 plants.
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About a week ago I saw the correct way to cut sweet bell peppers on a cooking show. Today I learn this new way is 5 times faster & easier than the old way I was cutting bell peppers.

Cut off the end of the bell pepper then slice off the good pieced. Save good pieces & throw the center piece away.

Cut off the sides so there in a vane in each slice. Cut along each side of the vane & throw the vane away. Save the good pieces.

Shake saved pieces in a large hole colander the seeds bounce away. LOL, it does not get easier than this it took about 1 hour to slice all the peppers but 8 that I saved for stuffed bell peppers.
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Gary can you tell me more about the Cranberry beans please, I'm curious.

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Gary350
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TomatoNut95 wrote:
Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:58 am
Gary can you tell me more about the Cranberry beans please, I'm curious.
They

Cranberry Beans are large white color beans when fresh picked the size & shape of Dark Red Kidney beans. Green bean pods are large with large beans. Remove beans from pods, after fresh garden beans dry out inside the house the white color develops reddish wavy colors on the surface. Very good flavor beans. Fresh picked garden beans can be eaten raw or cooked. Dry beans are easy storage in kitchen pantry and cook like any other dry beans. Very easy to grow in the garden plant after last frost when soil warms up to 65 degrees. Plant beans 2" apart in rows 6" apart. If you plant a BED with 6 rows side by side 7 ft long you should be able to harvest 35 lbs of pods = about 20 lbs of shelled cranberry beans. When garden beans dry out they will be about 10% smaller. I fertilize beans with 15-15-15 every 2 weeks.
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I decided to dig up the white color sweet potatoes to see what is here. I only grew these for the vines they look very nice around the border of the patio. Plants were in 90% shade every day under a big tree. Mother nature watered them most of the summer & fall. Only time I watered the plants was when leaves turned yellow, dry & start dyeing. The oldest potatoes have a hard dark skin. Next oldest potatoes have gray color skin. Most recent potatoes have white color skin like white potatoes should have. There are 2 ok size potatoes that would be eaten. Nothing here worth saving but seed potatoes. Actually the older potatoes have good potatoes under that dark color skin. 14 potatoes have sprouts they need to be planted.
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I had a hard time picking Tabasco peppers in 20 mph gusty wind 46°F feels much colder. Plastic bag of peppers is enough for all winter.

My onion plants are not doing well most of them died. Plants & roots are too small soil gets dry on surface & plants die. Today I pulled up chickweed then put fish aquarium over onions to see if this helps them grow better.

All 3 TV stations claim it will be 32°F tonight.
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When Pac Choy reached a certain size it took off growing several times faster & now most of the plants are 20" tall. There are too many large plants I can't keep up with eating them fast enough. Once weather gets cold enough and stays 55°F & colder plants will stop growing larger & just set there all winter. Last year these plants did good at 15°F. 60 plants will be a winter supply no need to get in a rush to eat them. We have 74°F forecast for next week. Experiments have proven I can grow Romain Lettuce & Pac Choy. Romain is looking good.

Broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, never grew large enough to be anything but leaves. Last years crop just sat there all winter waiting for warm weather to grow. This years crop will probably set there until May then be in the way of planting other crops like they were last year. Our spring is too short 30°F to 90°F in 6 weeks then plants blossom & grow seeds. It would be nice to grow 60 broccoli & 60 cauliflower in TN but not sure how to do it.

Tiny potato plants poking 1" through the soil were probably frost bit last night. It won't kill the plants.
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Mentally I am not ready for cold weather. I wish I could spend winter in Arizona. The worse part of winter is being inside the house for 6 months. I put on 2 pair of socks, boots, 2 flannel shirts, big heavy duty blizzard jacket, wool hat, went out side and was over heated very quick. I removed the jacket it feels nice outside, now I am ready to go camping. I love winter camping in 20°F weather. It is nice to wake up to see it snowed during the night at the camp ground. Wife won't tent camp in snow anymore.

It is interesting that, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, are very noticeable frosted but Pac Choy looks different like there is not much frost on them. Moles have made more tunnels in the garden. The 12' tall caster beans plants are tough as bamboo I need a chain saw to cut the 3" diameter sections. Caster bean plants are beautiful plants, if I could only make them stop growing when they are 6' tall. Frost on the potato plants. I am sure tip end of potato plants will die then grow back if it warms up again. We have 70°F forecast all next week, 74°F on Tue. TN weather is so crazy we could have 80°F weather before Jan.
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Tabasco pepper plants have no frost damage & no 28° freeze damage. I know it frosted in the garden I saw it and took pictures but no picture of pepper plants. Are some pepper plants able to take cold weather better than others?

I picked our first Romain lettuce today for chicken tacos. Romain lettuce is good, it is totally different than iceberg lettuce. We had homemade taco sauce made a month ago with our tomatoes & our Tabasco peppers.
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I grew a tabasco plant. I need to try again. It grew, but it was not a happy camper.

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I think some peppers ARE more cold/frost/freeze hardy than others. Many are originally native to mountainous areas of S. America where temperatures can get low in higher elevation.

Of course blossoms and fruits are more prone to freezing, particularly the thicker walled watery fruits, but as plants, when I overwinter peppers in the unheated garage, they mostly come through as long as lowest temperatures doesn’t dip below 24°F.

As species, C.annum (like bell peppers but also includes jalapeños) have shorter longevity — like 3 years — than hot peppers which are said to live and produce for closer to 5 years (or more?)

…According to wikipedia tabasco belongs to species C.frutescens and is native of Mexico.

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I have seen some peppers show no signs at all from frost, while right next to them others looked like they had been dead for quite a while, from just a single frost! I didn't take note which varieties survived - I always pull all of the peppers from the plants before that, and they had pretty much stopped growing anyway, due to cold, so surviving a frost or two really isn't going to give me much more peppers, and by this point, I certainly don't really need just a few more!

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It is summer again 75°F. Today was clean up the garden day. I pulled up the Tabasco plants and threw them in the yard. I held my breath when I drove the lawn mower over the tear gas plants. It burned my eyes & I held my breath for 60 ft before breathing.

I picked all the seeds from the caster bean plants. I have about 2 gallons of dry seeds and 5 gallons of seeds that need to be dried. I poured seeds into a very large cardboard box in the work shop to dry. These seeds may not be mature enough to grow.

I finally managed to cut down all the caster bean plants. I will NEVER plant these in the garden again. I might plants some along the back property line for a privacy fence about May 15. Plants are like cutting down 10 trees that are 10 to 12 feet tall. I used lawn mower to mulch the plants.

I tilled the whole garden to kill chick weed, grass & other plants. I can't see any of the chopped leaves the mower blew into the garden tiller covered them up. I rescued a toad & moved him to the Pac Choy plants.

I'm not sure what to do with 3 large pots of potting soil. If my carrot seeds every arrive I might plant more carrots.

I am going to leave row markers in the garden all winter next year I don't need to measure to put them in the garden again. Free pressure treated wood from construction site across the road makes good garden stakes.
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Gary350
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I have been trying to figure out how to keep carrots warm in winter so they will grow in freezing weather then I remembered solar beds that I built 1980 from Mother Earth News magazine. Solar beds will warm up during day then warm soil will hold heat at night. Winter sun is 1/2 the BTUs of summer sun.

I only had enough potting soil in 3 flower pots to make 1 solar bed 26" wide 49" long with soil 6" deed to grow Kuroa Shin 1/2 long carrots. Carrot seed spacing for 350 seeds is 1 3/4" between seeds in both direction, east/west & north/south. I still have enough glass from 40 years ago to make a dozen solar beds. I wish I had more potting soil I would make 1 more solar bed.
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Gary350
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Today it is 61°F very over cast with wind gusts to 20 mph, heavy rain expected about 11 am. Thermometer shows it is 7° warmer inside the solar bed. I will need double thermopane glass to get warmer temperature inside the bed.
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Gary350
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10:30 am, 55°F outside. Yesterday I built 1 double glass panel for the solar bed today silicone is dry. I replaced a single sheet of glass with double glass temperature increased 12°F to 82°F. I made another double glass panel this morning silicone will not be dry until later today. When I swap the other single glass with double glass if temperature increases another 12°F it will be 94 degrees in the bed. This will be too hot for carrots. This bed needs single glass if full sun with no clouds 70°F will be much better for carrots. As sun gets higher in the sky the carrot bed will get hotter. I think our solar 12 noon is now 11:55 pm by the clock now that we fell back.

WHAT is the perfect germination temperature for carrots???
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Gary350
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At solar 12 noon it is 60°F outside & almost 100°F inside the solar carrot bed. Glass needs to come off for now seeds will not like this heat.
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imafan26
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Wow. You get a lot of solar gain from your bed. It is great that you have good carpentry skills to complete all these projects.

I did not think carrots would like it that hot. My carrots don't like to go beyond 80 degrees and do best around 75. And I plant the more heat tolerant ones like Kuroda, Nelson, and Nantes.

Capiscum anuum for the most part does not live long. My Jalapenos occasionally live a second year, but they don't really look good. They become woody and don't produce a lot of peppers. The chinense, and frutescens do live longer. The frutescens live the longest. Super chile and Hawaiian peppers are classed as annuum species, but here they do easily live 5-8 years and I had one that was 10 years old. I think the annuum types are probably the ones that are the least cold tolerant. Chinense varieties like habanero, actually don't live that long for me. Frutescens like the Thai peppers can live a long time. Some get very big while others are dwarfs. I do find the tepins (wild peppers) hard to germinate.

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Gary350
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imafan26 wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:33 pm
Wow. You get a lot of solar gain from your bed. It is great that you have good carpentry skills to complete all these projects.

I did not think carrots would like it that hot. My carrots don't like to go beyond 80 degrees and do best around 75. And I plant the more heat tolerant ones like Kuroda, Nelson, and Nantes.

Capiscum anuum for the most part does not live long. My Jalapenos occasionally live a second year, but they don't really look good. They become woody and don't produce a lot of peppers. The Chinese, and frutescens do live longer. The frutescens live the longest. Super chile and Hawaiian peppers are classed as annuum species, but here they do easily live 5-8 years and I had one that was 10 years old. I think the annuum types are probably the ones that are the least cold tolerant. Chinese varieties like habanero, actually don't live that long for me. Frutescens like the Thai peppers can live a long time. Some get very big while others are dwarfs. I do find the tepins (wild peppers) hard to germinate.
I would like for the carrot bed to stay about 70°F all day this winter. I have a 4" and 6" fan & thermostat I can use to turn fan on at 70°F. The bed will need 2 air vents that will sucked open when fan comes on. It looks like double glass will make too much heat but might be ok in Feb we often have high temperatures in the 30s. I can't find online information for solar 12 noon anymore but I did find, sun rise is 7:12 am & sun set is 5:22 pm = 12 hr 32 min long day. 1/2 day = 5 hr 16 min. 7:12 + 5:16 = 12:28 pm solar 12 noon.

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Gary350
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7:15 am thermometer in carrot bed shows 28°F. TV says 34°F outside. 25 years ago I grew an very good winter carrot crop, we had an exceptionally cold winter top 1" of all carrots froze & rotted the top ends off. Carrots down deep were good. Todays high 48°F, carrot bed should warm up to about 75°F when sun is higher up. I want seeds to germinate after that carrots should be ok.
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