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applestar
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Everything looks great so far, and the rutabagas look fine to me. Though I am by no means an expert -- I had one good year with them, then the bed they were planted in 2nd time got club foot. Soooo disappointing! I sowed the last of the seeds this spring, just to get rid of them and I have one nice one growing in a raised bed, and a handful of tattered looking ones in another bed.

Do you not get the typical crucifer/brassica pests? Cabbage whites even? They love rutabagas and turnips as well as the usual cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, etc. etc. Here, now that it's gotten hot, the cross-backs are all over the remaining broccoli and kale, and even a harlequin bug has made an appearance (a bit early, if you ask me) ugh and double ugh! :evil: -- basically time to pull the plug on most of them and make way for something else. :roll:
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Toxic1979
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

I honestly had to google all of them just now. I have ben told by a few gardeners (in my area) that we do get a blue butterfly or moth that lays eggs in the cabbage, and that caterpillars can be an issue, but more the blue butterfly/ moth. I do have a cloth cover purchased to spread over the cabbage beds.

I have never seen any of the rest. I do have a few small signs of something munching on cabbage leaves and broccoli leaves, but I don't see anything in the beds or on the cabbages, aside from some small black flies and house flies. I was assuming it may be them.

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Also, a few of my turnips must have had two seeds on the planting hole, and did not get thinned out after they grew. Should I thin them out now, or should I leave them in hopes that two turnips will grow? I'm leaning towards thin them in order to get a turnip root to grow, instead of just turnip greens.... which i have growing in another bed.

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Im sure our winters help determine which bugs will usually establish in our area. Our winters are usually 6 months long, with average ambient temperature (without windchill) of -25 to -30 Celsius (~ -13 to -22 Fahrenheit). Spring and Fall are ~ 1month each, and summer is typically 20/25 Celsius on average. But it can fluctuate quite a bit between days. Yesterday was 26 celsius, today was 12 celsius. We also get plenty of rain.

Summer days are very long (5am/ 6am until about 9pm/10 pm). Between mid June and mid September.

Winter daylight is depressing at times (8am to 4 pm). Also I have no way of having a winter garden... unless growing snow counts! Typically the raised beds have about 8-10 feet of snow on them by the time spring arrives.

The biggest insect problem here are the mosquitos and the small black flies. Which are an extremely big problem in the evenings while tending to the garden.

My growing season is realistically 12 weeks long, but can vary onwards of 14/ 15 weeks depending on the temperatures in the late spring and early fall.

When my wife asks where we are going to retire, I always tell her I'm packing our Snow Blower in the back of our truck, and driving south until the first persons asks me what that thing in the back of my truck is. That's where I'll stay! lol

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

A few more pics this week.

I examined the cabbage and underneath the cabbage leaves and could not find any insects, aside from small black flies. They are a nuisance all over our town. I took some advice and decided to cover the cabbage with the row cover fabric. I purchased a heavy duty type. Installed it on hoop houses and clamped to heavy lengths of wood to ensure it does not blow off the hoop houses. Pics are below.
Week 29-001 2.jpg
Week 29-002 1.jpg
Week 29-003 1.jpg
Week 29-004 1.jpg
Week 29-005 1.jpg
Broccoli is started to head on just about all 22 plants. Small, but its started.
Week 29-006 1.jpg
Week 29-007 1.jpg

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Any idea what is wrong with this tomato? I just noticed it the other day.

Its a marmande tomato.
IMG_5783.JPG

These are gypsy peppers. I noticed the small brown spot on just one of them near the bottom. Its small, but I was wondering if its BER? I added lots of Calcium to soil prior to transplanting. I used gypsum. The others are not showing similar brown spots. Just wondering.
IMG_5771.JPG
Also... the little tiny plant growing in the same pot as the gypsy pepper.... it that chick weed? I literally have tons of it in every raised bed, and pot and everywhere practically. Ive been spending about 30 minutes every evening picking it out of my gardens. Its seems to be working. Some come back, but I expect its because the roots were not completely removed. Some of the plants got pretty big... 6 inches or so. A few other pics:
IMG_5692.JPG
IMG_5690.JPG
IMG_5688.JPG

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

The last weed -- it's kind of powdery underneath right? I'm pretty sure these are lambsquarters but could also be another species if narrow leaved. Both are edible weeds. Let some grow when distanced enough from main crops to not bother them while they are both small.
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Subject: What are you harvesting -Summer 2014
applestar wrote:
applestar wrote:Someone sent me seeds for what she called Aztec Broccoli and included a link for more info (https://seedsrootsleavesfruits.blogspot. ... ccoli.html). I realized I have a wild cousin and tried harvesting the tiny floral buds. They were yummy as garnish in a chicken soup.
Image

She's also sending me Spinach Tree seeds. I have wild cousin to that as well, which we all know as lambs quarters (also pictured above). Hers is gorgeous frosty dark blue-green though, with magenta new leaves... and of course HUGE. I've seen them called "Magenta Spreen".
Here they are! Spinach Tree are growing :-()
Image

...I guess we need a new thread for this year...
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

I agree. I think your weed is lamb's quarters (aka wild spinach and many other common names). It is one of the best edible weeds, very similar to spinach and very nutritious.

I guess you have to do what you can do with only a 12 week growing season!! (I did retire and move south and now my frost free growing season is about April 1 to Nov 3, about 28 weeks!)

But it looks odd to have tomatoes producing and broccoli just setting heads at the same time. But 12 C (54 F) is more like broccoli weather than tomato weather. and 26 C (79 F) is more like tomato weather, so I guess it averages out. :)
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Okay... Lambs Quarter. Not Chick Weed. The pics look exactly like what Ive ben pulling out of my raised beds. Two days ago I literally pulled about 50 4-6 inch plants of go the garden. Yes 50. And the week before probably abut the same amount. And yes applestar they are powdery underneath, with a slight tinge of red in the middle of the flower.... it was a little confusing at first when I was pulling weeds near my beets...

So its wild spinach? Well that works for me... I love spinach. I always pile it into my lasagna and some soups... Ill try some and see his I like it. Its very resilient! Almost stubborn! lol... an way too much if I let it grow. It seems very invasive. And grows so quickly.

rainbowgardner..... I never did see it that way regarding the broccoli and the tomato... I just hope for everything to be harvestable at the same time, or at least before the end of September! Our weather fluctuates so much from day to night. Im a little jealous of your 28 week grow season! April 1, Im still cross country skiing, and its considered our best snowmobile weather!

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

SO i covered my cabbage on Sunday as some addd protection... just in case. I checked on them today... now I have slugs on the cabbage. I picked 5 off one cabbage. I was frustrated, and decided t ask for a solution before I went out to pick them all off. They are very tiny and starting to do some damage to the leaves.

HELP! What do I do to destroy these evil pests that are devouring my cabbage? Is picking them off the fastest method? I didn't have this issue until I covered them... maybe just a coincidence. But I also have a lot robins and swallows (More swallows as they seem to drive the robins away) kicking around my area...maybe covering them took away the food source for the birds?

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

A quick update from this week....
Week 30-01.jpg
Week 30-02.jpg
Week 30-03.jpg
Week 30-04.jpg
Week 30-07.jpg
Week 30-08.jpg
These are my two lazy helpers.... they wait for the birds to show up, just so they can chase them!
These are my two lazy helpers.... they wait for the birds to show up, just so they can chase them!

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Pics of my cabbage since the slug attack earlier this week.
What I've done so far....
- Cursed on slugs quite a bit!
- Applied some iron phosphate pellets around the plants and in between the rows
- Installed 14 beer traps in total.
- Placed a piece of 1x6 board between each row (In an attempt to provide them shade from the daylight.... and of course me checking the board in the daylight).
- Removed any leaves sitting on the ground that have yellowed.
- placed 1x2 boards on both side of the plants in an attempt to get the leaves off the ground.
- Manual evening slug removals... the first two nights there were quite a few... about 40.... since then they have reduced to about 1 a day.
-... and cursed a lot!


This what the two heavy damaged plants look like. Im not sure what I should do with them... trim the leaves... or just leave it?
This what the two heavy damaged plants look like. Im not sure what I should do with them... trim the leaves... or just leave it?


These are good ones. Most look like these. I might have about 2 heavy damaged ones, and 3-4 with one leave damaged. I have about 15 good ones.
These are good ones. Most look like these. I might have about 2 heavy damaged ones, and 3-4 with one leave damaged. I have about 15 good ones.


Any advice much appreciated!

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Everything is looking great!
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

I think you've done all the things I might have done for slug control. I wouldn't remove those leaves.

...I'm envious you don't have to deal with all the other issues -- with the summer serious heat it's the moths as well as the butterflies -- moths lay egg clusters and they all hatch at once, butterflies are egg dumping and lay dozen or more eggs per leaf... and now the harlequin stinkbugs are laying egg clusters on all cabbage family plants I have left in my garden.... AND here I am trying to GROW fall stuff.... With the all the thunderstorms, slugs seems to have resumed. High pest pressure.
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Do thunderstorms bring out more slugs? First I heard of it. Yesterday we had our first severe thunder storm with rain of the year. Last night I was using pliers to pinch slugs off the potato leaves. About 15 in each grow bag the i could see.

Last night we literally noticed the slugs have migrated to other areas of the garden. killed at lest 100 this morning after they ventured to their hiding spots. They are starting to take over my garden.... Now Im just hammering them with rocks as i see them on the beds. I am seriously to my wits end with the slugs. Where do they come from, and how the heck to I kill them all.... i mean all of them. So sick of spending my time in the garden, squishing slugs.

GGGRRRR! I have Sluggo on the way. Hopefully it helps.

Also... underneath the cabbage plants Im noticing the soil growing a white matted substance. Im guessing a soil mould due to the heavy rain this past week. I scrapped it off and threw it out, but read that sprinkling cinnamon over the affected area could help.... any truth to that?

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

RE: underneath the cabbage plants I'm noticing the soil growing a white matted substance. I'm guessing a soil mould due to the heavy rain this past week. I scraped it off and threw it out, but read that sprinkling cinnamon over the affected area could help.... any truth to that?

Does your soil have wood chips or other woody stuff in it? That sounds like the kind of fungus that likes to grow on wood, part of the process of breaking it down. It is harmless. Cinnamon is a natural anti-fungal for some purposes, but I'm not sure it would do anything to these macro- scale fungal strands, unless you maybe buried them in cinnamon.
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

You must have missed some really big ones and they laid eggs, then conditions were ideal for them to hatch. If using things like grow bags, they were likely hiding underneath. Yes Sluggo will help.

...They are becoming a problem in my sweet potato SIP. :x
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Scraped off as much of the mould as possible. Then used lots of cheap Walmart cinnamon. Thanks Walmart.

Tortured a number of remaining slugs underneath the grow bags with the help of some vinegar and salt in a pail.

:twisted: Theres something very satisfying about the manner in which they are eradicated! :twisted:


Has anyone ever tried the peppermint leaves boiled with garlic and small amounts of cayenne pepper? Spray it on the ground? Leaves? raised bed wood? Im open to trying everything to ensure the complete decimation of the slug species! :-()

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Some may think that I'm growing some new variety of cinnamon cabbage! :>

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

So i battle with the slugs for days and days... i start winning this battle, and it consumes my time. Then this afternoon, I decide Im going to pull one of my turnips as its looking rather delicious, and the purple top is really showing.

Turnip pulled!

I see something has burrowed a hole in the side of my turnip. I cut it open with my knife and find a little tiny white worm wiggling around. I'll post pics later...

I google it... sounds like it root maggot.

The slugs I could see, and I learned there pattern of destruction. These little worms, are beneath my soil.... Can I just stick two steel prods deep in the ground, and connect a few 12 volt car batteries to them and destroy them all? :evil:

Why are they attacking my garden only? my neighbour is on vacation as has no problems at all. Im starting to think they plan the attacks to annoy me... damn insects!

I pulled a rutabaga also... same thing. And yes it was next to the turnips.

So how do I kill these pests? Electricity? Fire? Ice? Please tell me there is a chemical I can buy (legally) that melts, and makes them scream in agony!

Next year, I think Im just going to build a sealed greenhouse over the entire backyard.

Vegetable gardens are rare in my community... black spruce trees are in a huge abundance.... you would think they would go reproduce on those instead of my vegetables. Nope got to find those itty bitty turnips and lay eggs all over them instead!

Does BT work on them? That I can get here. THAT I HAVE... JUST IN CASE. Or is the fact that they are already burrowing a waste of time.

Open for advice... again! Where is nature when you need her? Why can't she unleash the natural predators of these pests into my garden.

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

This sounds very frustrating. :(

You bring up pests that I'm not so familiar with or that occur at time of the year different from mine.

I had to go look at an article about Alaska for climate equivalent to yours....

:arrow: https://agresearch.montana.edu/wtarc/pro ... tSheet.pdf
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

I read through it. Thanks.

It seems more preventive vs reactive. But with that said, everything I read about them seems to be... "Do this in order to ensure you do not get Root Maggot". It kinds sucks, cause it seems like I may need to remove all the plants in this area, burn them as if the zombie apocalypse has invaded my garden, and then make attempts to prevent them next year.

Im trying to research the use of BT against them after I remove the crops in the area. About 20 turnip, and 6 rutabaga. Id like to think that the winter would kill them, but unfortunately they survive Alaska winters... much harsher than ours.

I may grow poisonous turnips next year.... that'll teach em!

Any further advise, much appreciated. But honestly I can't find anything on controlling it once its in your garden, aside from trying to limit their ability to spread. I wonder if I use the water hose to drown the area in water, while it force them to the soil surface so I can salt and vinegar them? LOL

Will generous amounts of vinegar kill them? lol

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Like the Squash Vine Borer that is the bane of my existence, these are very difficult pests to deal with. They are difficult for similar reasons - the really destructive phase of its life occurs while it is INSIDE your plant (stem or in your case root), nicely protected from anything you want to do to it, by the plant it is busy destroying. While it is in the soil, it is in pupa form, also very protected inside the cocoon. I'm not sure vinegar or anything else you could add to the soil would harm it while in pupa form.

I am thinking your best bet for control of them would be through beneficial nematodes. You can buy these. They spread themselves through the soil and apparently can parasitize even the pupa.

https://www.arbico-organics.com/category ... gQodgbsNrA
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

I agree. it looked like predatory nematodes would be your best defense to me as well.

For this year, it seems to me that depending on the amount of damage, you should still be able to salvage your harvest by discarding the affected parts, even if you won't be able to wait for them to reach full size.

I'm having to do that with my onions due to maggots that have just hatched or have hatched and begun to burrow -- inspecting, cutting out and saving only the unaffected parts, and I often have to do the same with my potatoes and sweet potatoes due to wireworms tunneling through them. Same for SVB's Trying to store the harvested crops whole only gives those pests a chance to burrow and cause more damage to the harvest, reducing salvageable edible portions and/or infecting/introducing microbes that cause spoilage.

I was told that for onion maggots, I should try sprinkling hardwood ash around the onion plants as preventive. (Don't know if this is relevant for your problem). Note though that I suspect protection by beneficial nematodes and this wood ash preventive are probably mutually exclusive.
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

I believe I have found th equivalent products in Canada. I don't think Arbico ships to Canada, especially live cultures of nematodes.

Im using the following company... Natural Insect Control (NIC). I have enough for 200 sq. ft coming. I will report on the ease the of use, and wether or not it was successful... that may take more time.

Weblink to the product I ordered: https://www.naturalinsectcontrol.com/pro ... =000000363

Hopefully it works. Gardening becomes so discouraging when these nuisances invade. Im basically going to make an attempt to stop the spread, and possible re-occurence for next year... which based on my reading could be much worse if not treated properly. I asked other gardeners here if they experienced this before, and they all said "Yes".... but it sounded like a dreadful
"yes". Some said they used BT and it seemed to work, but not sure as it could have been coincidence. They said to cover all cabbage, turnip and rutabaga all the time.

Next year I will be armed with more experience, and much more prevention.... vs my current reaction!

I won't dare say we don't get SVB here, as I might not be aware that we do... lol. I jinxed myself when I told applestar that we don't get many insect and bug issues here..... its been non-stop insect problems ever since! LOL.... at least Im learning!

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

A few pics of the turnip and rutabaga that was damaged by the root maggot....
Laurentian Rutabaga with Root Maggot
Laurentian Rutabaga with Root Maggot
Purple Top Turnip with Root Maggot
Purple Top Turnip with Root Maggot

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

On a better note.. my Zucchini (Sure Thing) are doing well... this is the 6th one that I harvested from three plants.

Giving them to my neighbours now.

I pulled two carrots (Bolero, Napoli) just to see how they were doing. Better than last year, but I was expecting them to be a bit bigger by now. Anything I can do, or do carrots really start putting on growth when the weather cools?
Week 32- Harvest.jpg

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Week 33 Update.... I tried a broccoli from the garden. I'm guessing that when broccoli starts to put on flowers, its time to make sure it gets eaten. I cut it off and ate it that night. Tasted great! The other are not too far off producing flowers also.

A few Zucchinis seem to do fine and others seem to grow very weird near the flower end of the zucchini. It very soft and stubby. Im wondering if its an inconsistent watering issues. My zucchinis love water. Min twice a day. I attached some pics below.

Also attached pics of the cabbage and broccoli still in the garden. And I do have the cauliflower leaves folded over the heads and kept in place using elastic bands.... to help keep the heads white.
Week 33- Zuch nad Brocoli Harvest.jpg
Week 33- Brocolli and Cabbage Garden.jpg
Week 33- Cauliflower Garden.jpg
This weeks questions:

1. How do you know who cabbage is finished growing? I have a few that are getting large, and firm.
2. Can you eat rutabaga leaves the same as you eat turnip leaves?
3. Approx how large do cauliflower typically get?
4. Does the bolting or flower production on broccoli change the taste of the broccoli?
5. Can you use broccoli leaves for anything? i.e.. similar to cabbage leaves... i love making cabbage rolls. Never thought of broccoli rolls.
6. Why do you guys do with the remainder of your broccoli stems.... mulch?
7. What does it mean when your cauliflower leaves are transparent in a few spots. It almost looks as though something was eating the leaves. There are spots that are transparent on some of the leaves.

Thanks again!

PS... still waiting on my nematodes. I plant on spraying the whole garden. Decided that next year, I'll spray in spring and fall.

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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

4) you don't want to let your broccoli flower if you can help it It isn'the ruined and I have certainly thrown those yellow flowers into salads. But I feel like it gets a little tougher and not quite as fresh tasting. And in general with annuals flowering is a signal to the plant that its life span is mostly over.

6) You aren't ready to be talking about what to do with the stems . It's why you want to keep it producing . Cut the main head off and leave the plant. It will keep producing small side heads for a long time . Ultimately when the plant is done, it can be pulled and composted.

5) Yes, broccoli leaves are perfectly edible . Use them like cabbage Lea especially or like spinach or just chop them in salad.
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Yep, its better to harvest the broccoli BEFORE the yellow flowers open -- some say when the little individual green buds are matchhead-sized. I freeze them like I do most of my extra vegs.

"Transparent in spots" in most cases often mean there is a leafminer inside -- between top and bottom layers of the leaf. You may want to examine more closely. (There will be frass somewhere in the clear pocket)

It could also be lens-effect sunburn from drops of water beading on the leaf, especially on cabbage-type waxy leaves.
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Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Thanks.

Ill look into the cabbage a little closer tomorrow, when I have light again. There a re few spots on the leaves. not trails though. I read up on the leaf miners and I figure it may very well be them. Ill double check tomorrow. So far this year, I've been amazed at the number of insects that Im finding in our area, that I never knew we had.

Next year there will be cloth over everything. I've learned a lot this year already. Next year, use the coverings, spray beneficial nematodes in the spring and the fall, and hook up both fly zappers (bought two good for 1.5 acres each)... i may even try to convince the kids in our neighbourhood that catching slugs is a really fun game!

Im just glad we don't have large spiders..... I'm petrified of spiders, We only get the small house spiders no bigger than your thumb. I know some of you are down south... and get some nasty big spiders. I believe one lady spoke of a family of wolf spiders giving in her garden. I would have sold the house... or burned it down! lol...

I will post a few pics of the cauliflower leaves tomorrow. I've gone ahead and harvested all broccoli that had flowers on it. 5 in total. Gave them to the neighbours... they loved them! Only 19 remaining. Ill harvest few more tomorrow, and maybe freeze them. The other variety we have is a later variety. I figure it should be a few more weeks before they are ready.

Toxic1979
Senior Member
Posts: 132
Joined: Tue May 12, 2015 8:23 pm
Location: Labrador City, NL, Canada

Re: Toxic1979, Veg Garden 2016

Great to know that broccoli leaves are edible. Used as cabbage rolls for sure! ... or broccoli rolls!

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