Lindsaylew's 2014 Garden - Upstate, SC

[suegardener]

Oh, stinkiness! I am just washing out with soap and freezing any excess. So far no problem. I am even using some milk which had kind of gone off and was saved frozen for this purpose. From what I read, it doesn't seem to matter whether fresh, dehydrated, frozen, skim or whole. I guess time will tell.

By the way, your garden looks fabulous and wildly productive. I am still suffering from over-planting syndrome. Re: bush beans versus pole beans, it is pole beans all the way for me. I plant a very few bush beans for earliness but the pain is not worth it. Rattlesnake beans are among my favorites. I am happy to share a few seeds if you would like. Great flavor, tough and hardy and continue to produce until frost. And if you let them get away from you, you just have some dried pinto-type beans. I have been growing some on an upright fencing we set up over a raised homemade big planter box (10 feet tall and it's not high enough). It is set up right at the back steps so I can stand on them to pick. This year, added something new. Arches! for beans, tomatoes, etc. from cattle panels like you have seen all over the internet. The picking should be vastly better.

Very good observations about the strangeness of this year. We are having a different set of strange here in Alabama. My garden went in very late so some strangeness is just becoming apparent. No problems here with fruit-set on the tomatoes, though.

[Lindsaylew82]

I've got some arching trellis ideas. I'm thinking PVC. Something I can move around and take apart during the winter for a "tidy" looking winter garden.

We are setting heavy fruit now! But just for a few weeks.

You can use powdered milk, too! I like neem because it's a double duty agent. Insecticide and fungicide. On NORMAL years, I'm battling squash bugs BAD! What I don't find and handpick, gets dosed with neem. Maybe my diligence is paying off? Who can say? I've been neeming since 2010! I think I may be taking credit where it isn't due. Last winter was harsh. I think that's helped, too.

Thanks for the compliment!

[Lindsaylew82]

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUN!....

That's what I initially thought when I saw this.


That's a zucchini leaf, and I thought they were freshly hatch squash bug eggs, but they're stink bugs.

I don't know what the heck these are...

I think I'll do a separate post id on them.

4 more tomato horn worms and this dude inside my squash. He moves pretty quick! He went down the garbage disposal.



Some blushing on my brown berry. The first was SUPER tasty!

I had to do a LOT of pruning tonight. Blight is creeping up quickly. My plants look like trees!

[lakngulf]

I am still suffering from over-planting syndrome.

suegardener, you will have to do a forum search on PETC. We need a help group for those who Plant Everything Too Close

[lakngulf]

Re: bush beans versus pole beans, it is pole beans all the way for me. I plant a very few bush beans for earliness but the pain is not worth it. Rattlesnake beans are among my favorites. I am happy to share a few seeds if you would like. Great flavor, tough and hardy and continue to produce until frost. And if you let them get away from you, you just have some dried pinto-type beans. I have been growing some on an upright fencing we set up over a raised homemade big planter box (10 feet tall and it's not high enough). It is set up right at the back steps so I can stand on them to pick. This year, added something new. Arches! for beans, tomatoes, etc. from cattle panels like you have seen all over the internet. The picking should be vastly better.

Agree with you totally on the rattlesnake beans and cattle panels. I am finding lots of uses for the cattle panels. Here are my arching beans



This is with regular net wire, but the cattle panel would work even better.

[Lindsaylew82]

That looks like an ideal bean setup! Very nice!

I'm feeling discouraged. I go to sleep thinking about hornworms, then I wake up thinking about hornworms. My catch tonight included a VERY large hornworm that was not (that I could tell) parasitized. No dark sting marks, nothing. He was making a mess of the green sausage.




Total catch for tonight...
5-6 hornworms. Most were newly hatched. A bunch of newly hatch tomato fruit worms. 3-4 stink bugs, which fouled my soap, 2 cucumber beetles, a whole newly hatched nest of stink bugs, and a few leaf footed bug nymphs. Oh! And a potato beetle. Countless eggs. I think all Hornworm.


This guy on my bee balm. Too fast to catch, but likes his picture taken.


My 7' brandywine tree fell over today


Tasted some of my jalapeño peppers tonight. Not hot yet. But we are LOADED! Hot pepper jelly!



New Indigo Rose has it's first tomato. Very pretty purple plant. Would make a nice ornamental addition to edible landscaping! Compact, too.



Picked my first bit of okra tonight! Gonna sauté it in evoo and salt.



Squash plants are pumping out new growth now and I got about 3 gallons of squash and zucchini last night.



These marigolds. I mean WOW! At dusk, then look like smoldering embers! Lush plants. HAVE to save seed from these this year. They really made the garden beautiful this year!





Lots of beneficials. Tonight I saw a few assassin bugs, they're camera shy, lots of pink lady beetles, sweat bees, honey bees, bumble bees, wasps (large and small) and spiders.

This little fella wasn't scared of my camera at all!

[Lindsaylew82]

CARTERPILLARS! UUUUUGH!

I'm getting REALLY FRUSTRATED.

I pulled 14 hornworms of various sizes today. 5 off one plant! SOOOOO many eggs. Countless army worms and 2 more clusters of army worm egg clusters (most were black with parasite infections.

Most of my hornworm eggs are black, some are green, but most are black. Could they be infected with parasites?!?! I'm sure it's just wishful thinking on my part.

I never pulled the one plant that had herbicidal poisoning. I couldn't bring myself to do it. It's continued to grow, all curled and wispy. It's growth has improved slightly. It's put out 6 small deformed tomatoes on one truss. I won't get a crop that I'll consider eating, but it gave me an idea...

The last army worm egg cluster I found went to that plant, along with 7 horn worms. Ranging from newly hatched up to medium sized ones. (Mine puke when pulled off plants...anyone else notice that?)

I pull no less that five off my plants nearly every night. I'm on vacation next week. Not only are my first slicer toms gonna come in next week, I'm seriously worried about what's going to happen to the tomato plants. I feel like I'm waging a war that can't be won this year. I'm gonna BT them and I'm disappointed in my choice. I feel like I've worked so hard and been so diligent! It should be paying off.

If I spray, I'll leave the twisted knarly plant with the hornworms alone. I want them to be parasitized. Badly. If they aren't, or if something eats them, fine! I'll just flush their little cocoon butts down the toilet....

End rant. I'll gladly take advice if someone can come up with better. Definitely committed to organic practices. Trying very hard to be spray free. Neem is all I've ever used.

[Lindsaylew82]

http://www.wageningenur.nl/en/show/Parasitoid-larvae-in-caterpillars-affect-behaviour-of-moths.htm

Interesting stuff! I just read about how wasp parasitized caterpillars have a change in saliva that causes plants to both be less attractive to more moth infestation and more attractive to wasps.

I wonder if my pukey hornworms were any indication that they were infected!!! Normally they puke thick vegetation, but the bigger ones were puking a more brown, pale, clear substance. 2 days ago, I drowned one that had already puked all over his head/eye looking parts. (they remind me of Scotty Dogs...iDK why. Some lumbar X-ray positioning lingo I think...off topic.) I'm glad I saved some of the "sickies"! We shall see!

[applestar]

I know you've said you use neem. Is that neem oil or neem-derived insecticide/fungicide?

As often as you spray neem, I'm surprised that you still have caterpillar infestations. Shouldn't neem also be effective against them or their eggs (if you are using oil?).

Also, is there any chance that the use of neem is suppressing the beneficials' effectiveness?

Parasitic wasps and tachnid flies lay eggs on the caterpillars themselves or on leaves that are then ingested by the caterpillars. If these tiny eggs are susceptible to the oil effect, they might be destroyed even though the caterpillars manage to survive?

Also do you see much yellow jacket, hornet, paper wasp, or other larger wasp activity? They carry off caterpillars to feed to their babies. I see them scrupulously investigating every leaf around tomatoes, kale, etc. Male cardinals hunt hornworms in my tomatoes. I'm starting to see them hanging around the tomato beds, so I'm assuming that's what they are looking for, though I've also seen them going after praying mantids.

When I'm raising the Monarchs, caterpillars that are sick will puke green and sometimes have diarrhea. Usually they have some kind of bacterial infection (sometimes Bt but not always). The liquid green body fluids can be source of contamination so I isolate the sickies and remove all the rest of the caterpillars to sterilize the container before putting them back.

[Lindsaylew82]

I haven't used neem in 3 weeks. It's neem oil. Even when I was using it weekly, I still had infestation. I haven't been seeing any squash bugs, so I've backed off. They are the reason I started using neem at all, years ago. While I can slow fungal infections with neem, I cannot stop them here. Blight and mildews have started showing their faces despite my efforts. These are the reasons for my discontinued spraying. There egg clusters I'm finding from army worms are mostly black, which I've read means they've been parasitized. I need confirmation on that though.

There are butterflies all over these marigolds during the day. They are large healthy plants and they're heavily planted. I'm just wondering if the con of their bringing the moths at night is outweighing their pro of beneficials during the day.

At the moment, I've not sprayed. Still just relying on me.

ETA: I see wasps all the time. Yellow jackets and large great black wasps, all kinds. They like the cucumber, squash and beans more than tomatoes. I have a bird feeder that was empty for a whole week last fall. When I went to fill it again, there was a paper wasp nest. They are doing well this year. About 6 feet away from the back side of the garden. There are birds everywhere! I see cardinals sometimes. I mostly see blue birds, purple martins, mocking birds and cat birds. I have large trees on the east and north boarders of my garden. They nest and perch all over. I do plan on making some houses for the bluebirds. There are already LOTS of house boxes way up high for the martins. I need to add for feeders. I think my kid would enjoy making some pine cone, peanut butter, bird seed snacks.

[Lindsaylew82]

How do you know it's BT? Is it after you've used it? I know it occurs naturally, but I'm not sure of a source.

[Lindsaylew82]

Checked on my curly tomato plant tonight to see how my hornworms were doing. One definitely has some issues and isn't looking well. Neither one is eating...the first one looks a bit bruised. It was difficult to photograph, but he's bruised up, puny looking and puking brown and clear.



Number 2 looks normal but has a fuzzy head. Not eating.



I noticed this wasp hanging out on that same experimental plant tonight. I guess he's checking out the prospects!!!


I found this one on another tomato plant. He looks strange. Look at the first third of his body, he's fuzzy! Normal or abnormal?



He went to the experimental plant.

I didn't spray.

I picked my first blushing slicing tomato tonight. I'm gonna take it to the beach with me. I ate a sun gold that ripened completely on the vine. It was tasty. I don't think Im in love with the sweeter tomatoes. I'm an acid lover. Rutger and pink Germans are the best in my memory, and a yellow that I saved seed from but didn't grow this year.

I'm done freaking out over the caterpillar problem. It is what it is, and I'm doing the best I can do.

[applestar]

Assuming they behave the same way, the Monarch caterpillars will stop eating and become motionless for about 8-12 hours when they are ready to molt and become next instar. Their skin looks loose and faded.

Newly molted caterpillars are generally lighter in color before their dark markings become clearer... Then they look "fresh".

I have also seen caterpillars that are defective for some reason and their molting/metamorphosis transformation is incomplete -- resulting in stunted front or back half.

The dark Armyworm eggs -- I have observed with Monarch butterfly eggs and Io moth eggs that they become black/dark just before hatching. Similar to the chrysalis, the shell changes from translucent to transparent and you are seeing see the caterpillar inside. The first instar is almost always black.

You might want to put some kind of solid mulch under these plants so they won't be able to burrow into the ground to pupate... or else you could diligently dig around the base of the plants to uncover any pupa. If you had chickens, I suppose they could take care of that.

[Lindsaylew82]

The dark Armyworm eggs -- I have observed with Monarch butterfly eggs and Io moth eggs that they become black/dark just before hatching. Similar to the chrysalis, the shell changes from translucent to transparent and you are seeing see the caterpillar inside. The first instar is almost always black.

Sigh.... I squished a few tonight, and they were just shells. Hatched already. I did read about the dark army worm eggs being parasitized...only from one source though, the one we couldn't "mouse over". I need to do a little more research.

Any time I search any combination of the words worm, parasitized, and egg, all I get is info about THW parasitic infections. That HAS been helpful also, but it's not as fruitful as I'd hoped.

[SusanRachel]

I am fighting my own hornworm and stinkbug battles. What is the best way to find the hornworms? I search where I see the defoliation occurring, but sometimes it takes me several days to locate the offending bug because they blend in. Is there a good trick? Also, what is the best way to find the eggs?