Vanisle_BC
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Black Krim deformed - alternative??

We really like Black Krim but many of mine are deformed; somewhat like, but worse than, the ones (not Krim) shown in post no. 19169 - I should have kept photos. I'm wondering whether a) there's a reason and a cure for this, or b) is there an alternative variety with flavour similar to Black Krim?
"The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior." H. D.Thoreau. (Me too.)

CharlieBear
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

We have switched to Cherokee Purple for that reason. It is also in the purple-black family of tomatoes and therefore has a similar flavor and like black Krim is an heirloom.

imafan26
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Catfacing is a response to the weather, usually temp < 60 degrees for a few days right around the time the flowers are coming out which can lead to incomplete pollination, but some varieties are more prone than others to it.
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Vanisle_BC
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Ah, once introduced to the term "catfacing" I found quite a number of posts. Thanks imafan26. I don't have record or recollection of early temps after the Black Krim were planted out.

CharlieBear, Is Cherokee Purple a large-fruited type? I think someone gave me some seed a couple years back and the fruit was quite small. But it didn't do very well anyway - I was having a poor year for tomats. For this year (next year!) I'm trying "Indigo Rose" from West Coast Seeds. It's purple and said to be medium size. Most of my varieties are small-to-medium (chosen for flavour) so those big juicy Krim were really welcome.
"The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior." H. D.Thoreau. (Me too.)

imafan26
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Cherokee purple is a large fruited tomato. It looks like in Vancouver you nites were in the 50's and days in the 60's and 70's. It might have been cold enough at night especially for a variety like Black Krim which is susceptible to it. Try growing a smaller variety in 7-8 oz range, they are less prone to cat facing than the larger tomatoes. Stupice, Early Girl, and Galcier are supposed to do well in Pacific Northwest weather.
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Mr green
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

I grew Black Krim, and Purple Calabash last season, both made deformations, and fruits matured really uneaven, one part could be rotting away while another is still hard green. 75% of my fruits on these plants where complete freaks like that...
Was my first year trying heirlooms, and im no fan so far.
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished - Lao Tzu

Vanisle_BC
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Mr green wrote:I grew Black Krim, and Purple Calabash last season, both made deformations, and fruits matured really uneaven, one part could be rotting away while another is still hard green. 75% of my fruits on these plants where complete freaks like that...
Was my first year trying heirlooms, and im no fan so far.
Ouch, Mr Green; don't give up on all heirlooms because of one season's bad experience with two (similar?) varieties. I've been disappointed in Black Krim because of the percentage of deformities - the so called cat-facing - but your description of fruit that's half hard-green and half rotting sounds like something else. Maybe folks with more knowledge than I, can comment on what would cause this.

I'm not sure what most folks mean by "heirloom" anyway. I generally think of it as any non-hybrid, open pollinated variety that's been around for at least a few decades. What kind of tomatoes do you like or usually grow - what size, consistency, flavour? I believe there are literally thousands of non-hybrid types and surely many you would enjoy both growing and eating; as well as having the fun of saving seed and helping to perpetuate the strains.
"The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior." H. D.Thoreau. (Me too.)

Mr green
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Yeah i would call them similar, i could not very easily tell them apart. I was blaiming the wheater at first, but i don't know, seems like it was just in their genes... I cant find anyone with a similar problem either.

I like Cherry tomatoes packed with flavor, and with thin skin. I like pretty much any tomato that aint to watery, gotta have some taste, also don't like to thick skin, thats my only guidelines i think. I like sungold, but in general im not much for yellow tomatoes as they are just sweet and usually missing the tomato flavor. But the sungold is a bit orange, and has the tomato flavor so its a bit hard to navigate threw the tomato jungle!

The reason i wanted to try out these heirlooms was in the search of a bigger tomato that will grow well here. They did grow well, and gave plenty of mostly useless tomatoes. Maybe if i find a recipie with 50/50 mix of green and ripe tomatoes haha.
And i wont give up i guess, but this season wont be any if they don't offer any plants locally (usually not, we have a very bad selection at the nurseries.)
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished - Lao Tzu

nltaff
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

I also grew Black Krim over the summer '15, both in pots and in the ground here in Zone 5. Did not get deformities, but did get uneven ripening. My frustration with them was one day, too firm, next day, apparently over-ripe. The flavor was ok, but I didn't like the texture. I, too will probably try Cherokee Purple as an alternative.

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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Cherokee purple is a pretty good alternative. I grow both. BK usually have slight ruffles on deep shoulders and a small bit of cat facing regardless of temperature here. They usually ripen pretty uniformly for me. Maybe a little green shoulder, but I don't recall them being extreme. Definitely no rotting while they ripen as a whole fruit. I really like that look though! I get HUGE FRUITS from black krim, and lots more fruit. Usually only get 2-3 grocery store sized fruits from CP. I prefer the taste of BK but the texture of CP.

If low temps are more of an overall issue, I've found the Black Sea Man and Black Prince(it's like a large plum shape) do better for me in the cooler temps. They both struggled in my SC heat.

We found indigo rose (a cherry size tomato) to be seriously lacking in both flavor and texture. Disappointing considering how beautiful they were! Brown Berry were tasty and prolific if you like a small plum type.

The black and Browns are some of my favorites, so we try new ones. This year we have Cherokee purple x6, black krim, black from Tula, brown Berry, prudence purple, Eva purple ball, and black cherry. I'm sure I'm forgetting some! :)
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applestar
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Mr green wrote:I grew Black Krim, and Purple Calabash last season, both made deformations, and fruits matured really uneaven, one part could be rotting away while another is still hard green. 75% of my fruits on these plants where complete freaks like that...
Was my first year trying heirlooms, and im no fan so far.
Purple Calabash is a seriously convoluted variety anyway. I was going to try growing them because supposedly Thomas Jefferson introduced it at Monticello, and also because I thought it would be fun to grow them with Kamatis Tagalog, which I like:
Subject: Kamatis Tagalog
applestar wrote:This is a tomato variety from the Philippines. I got the seeds from Gixxerific who, I think, got them directly from a tomato enthusiast in Philippines who goes by screen name of Adobo at a different forum.

It's a funny looking tomato, flat and orbital with extensive fluting. The epidermis is clear and the flesh is red, resulting In gorgeous dark pink color with waxy shine when fully ripe. I started this one early, thinking tropical variety would be a late maturer, but it was one of the first to bear fruit and ripen.

Two on the left are normal fruits. Some of the megablooms try to make a semblance of spherical fruit by feat of contortion like the three fruits on the right :D […]

...hmmm not getting the right color... I'll try to find/take more photos....:|Image
-- but I read so many reviews that Purple Calabash is a spitter, so I gave up on the idea.

I generally don't like super pleated varieties because bugs and fungal issues can hide in them anyway. BUT I couldn't resist trying Charlie Chaplin this year. :wink:


... Now, back to the OP -- black tomato alternative to Black Krim.... Hmmm... Do you want "black" as in yellow epi? I seem to prefer "purples" with clear epi... Having trouble coming up with a black. Maybe Black and Brown Boar? Some people swear by Japanese Black Trifele, though they didn't do too well for me last year.... I'm trying Black from Tula this year for the first time, which is supposed to be "great".
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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

I'm looking forward to Black From Tula as well! We will have to compare later in the season!

I was really disappointed in both taste and texture of Japanese Black Trifele... I had high hopes for it though because it was so pretty in pictures!
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Mr green
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Is the uneaven ripening a megablossom treat? Im not that familiar with the phenomena and don't remember if my Black Krim actually made those.

Back to op question or rather expanding the question, is there a good alternative that aint mushy and therefor makes a good eating tomato. I like to eat tomatoes straight from the plant, alone with olive oil and herbal salt or in a sallad.

The Black from Tula looks amazing, and thats what made me interested in growing some heirlooms from the beginning, the fancy looks. But it gotta have something more than that obviously. =)
Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished - Lao Tzu

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applestar
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Megablossom is a result of several blossoms fused together, so there can be hours to days difference in when they become receptive to pollination, and subsequent delay in ripening of the later set blossoms/part of the fruits.

To find the right tomato variety for you, you have to consider your particular flavor preference as compared to the reviewers and the growing climate/conditions in your garden. There are quite a few heirlooms that need the higher night time temperature of the south -- 70's °F and above -- to properly develop their flavor. In my area, summer night temperature of mid- to upper 60's is the norm.

I mostly only grow heirlooms and open pollinated varieties, and only lately have become interested in new segregating crosses made by others and my own. Have you looked at the compare and share tomato tasting thread?

:arrow: Subject: Tomato Tasting -- compare and share
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

applestar wrote:Megablossom is a result of several blossoms fused together, so there can be hours to days difference in when they become receptive to pollination, and subsequent delay in ripening of the later set blossoms/part of the fruits.

To find the right tomato variety for you, you have to consider your particular flavor preference as compared to the reviewers and the growing climate/conditions in your garden. There are quite a few heirlooms that need the higher night time temperature of the south -- 70's °F and above -- to properly develop their flavor. In my area, summer night temperature of mid- to upper 60's is the norm.

I mostly only grow heirlooms and open pollinated varieties, and only lately have become interested in new segregating crosses made by others and my own. Have you looked at the compare and share tomato tasting thread?

:arrow: Subject: Tomato Tasting -- compare and share
Thanks thats what i was thinking, and looking at that picture you posted earlier seemed to confirm that. Allthough ive been confused by hearing many tomato growers really want them don't seem why you would want bigger tomatoes in the expense of quality. But then again i don't understand the reason to grow theses huge pumpkins to win a competition either...

My average night temps are around 55f, but i grow them in pots along a wall and my porch, south/southwest so they shouldnt get as chilled... It can very well be to cold then for most big heirlooms, and maybe i should focus on plum and cherry tomatoes that seems better at taking cold in general. Black Krim however is said to be very suitable for colder climates.

I had completely missed that thread applestar! Thanks for showing me to it, going there now! :)
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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Well, I have my first Black From Tula on the vine, and it is DEFINITELY deep shouldered and has some pretty severe cat facing!

I thought Black Prince had a really nice silky texture vs a slightly mealy texture of Black Krim. They still have that deep ketchup-y flavor that I've found to be common in the Black tomatoes. It's more of a plum shape, like a large Roma.
Lindsay
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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Black from Tula:
Image

Image
Lindsay
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Vanisle_BC
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

Thanks, Lindsay, for the info & photos of Black from Tula. Another one down in the no-catface stakes. The black/purples I'm trying this year are Indigo Rose and Paul Robeson (what a great name!) Can't wait to see what they're like; but for me that's still many weeks away - especially as I accidentally left the Robesons out on a frosty night and have had to re-seed. :(
"The greater part of what my neighbors call good I believe in my soul to be bad, and if I repent of anything, it is very likely to be my good behavior." H. D.Thoreau. (Me too.)

imafan26
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

We have Cherokee Purple growing now. There was some catfacing but we had some unusually cold nights for us. Cherokee Purple is a large fruit with green shoulders but unless you pick them a little green, they pretty much will always crack.

Prudens Purple is another heirloom that is supposed to rival Brandywine in flavor but be more productive. Anyone tried it yet? I have seeds but haven't planted it yet.
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Lindsaylew82
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Re: Black Krim deformed - alternative??

I like Cherokee purple very much, for both flavor and texture, but it's not a "black" tomato. It is similar in flavor, slightly more acidic, but still ketchup-y. It is a darker tomato. My family, who still gets squeamish around anything other than red tomatoes, can definitely tell the difference! Haha! I think they're Supah Yummeh! And showy!
Lindsay
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