got me thinkin'... are all heirlooms created equal?

[Lonesomedave]

this whole forum has been an interesting read...but, now, I am more confused than when I started....

I thought heirloom tomatoes were just that...old time tomatoes that had been kept around (or brought back) because of one thing...they taste good, compared to more modern kinds that have been bred for one thing...their ability to be shipped well

is this basically true or not?....don't know, just askin'

now for my question(s):

I have planted 4 kinds of tomatoes this year, two heirloom and two "modern" tomatoes

the heirlooms are Mr. Stripey & Brandywine

the modern tomatoes are Big Beef & Better boy

what can I expect?....I have gotten all my tomatoes as young plants from Lowes & Home Depot...I realize these may not be ideal, but, hey, I have what I have, and could not really get them from anywhere else.....except, maybe, Wallymart

will these heirlooms give me true old time tomatoes...and flavor?

how about the so-called modern tomatoes, how will they stack up, flavor-wise?

I always supposed that the tomato plants sold locally, either "modern" or "heirloom", were good choices, because they are all indeterminate, and not grown for the commercial growers who only care about shipping, not eating

am I wrong here?...have I made a wise choice or a bad choice or somewhere in-between?

I am really not interested in growing from seed...I just want good tomatoes....any suggestions for better choices next year?

anyway...thank you and the website so much for stimulating me thinking about this, and absolutely any thoughts by someone who knows more than me (which basically means anybody at all) welcome

[Bobberman]

Home grown are always better than store bought. The types you have are all great tasting especially the brandywine. I like the pineapple the best so far. The two tone tomatoes like the stripey has to me a better taste.! I am trying sever new ones this year even green check my post!

[Lonesomedave]

Home grown are always better than store bought. The types you have are all great tasting especially the brandywine. I like the pineapple the best so far. The two tone tomatoes like the stripey has to me a better taste.! I am trying sever new ones this year even green check my post!

thanks...

funny you should mention that...I just got off ebay where I ordered 2 large pineapple tomato plants.... (I know, I know, I have promised momma to go easy on the new plants)

what can you tell me about that variety....the listing looked real good....2 large plants in big pots...I could not resist

[tomc]

Dave,
Trudi Davidoff will send you (via wintersown.org) a SASE full of sample packs of tomato seed...

I'm just sayin'

[PaulF]

Mr. Stripey is a bi-color, yellow with a red blush, that is a nice tomato. It is on the sweet side as are most of the bi-colors. There is another tomato often called Mr. Stripey that is actually called Tigerella and nothing like the real Mr. Stripey. Pineapple is a similar variety to MS that I like the taste of better, but taste is a personal thing. When you say Brandywine, there are maybe fifteen different Brandywines available. Red Brandywine is probably the easiest to find in the box store type nurseries. Myself, I like the pink Brandywine Sudduth strain best of all. Red and Pink Brandywines are completely different tomatoes as are several of the other Brandywines different from each other. The namers just attached the name Brandywine to sell more seeds.

When you ask about "modern" tomatoes, they are still hybrids developed for the commercial market. Again taste is a personal thing. Never ate a big, bigger, best, boy or girl I thought tasted good. Big Beef has some good reviews but I have never tried it. Not all heirlooms or Open Pollenated varieties have that superb old fashioned flavor, but of the more than 500 varieties I have grown, most are better than any hybrid I have tried.

Trudi will send you some really good varieties to try. Begin your research on growing your own plants from seed and I will bet you will become a tomatoholic like many of us. Good luck and have fun.

[webmaster]

Just my personal opinion but I don't believe that one variety has a better taste than any other variety soley because of it's variety. It's not just the variety that makes a tomato taste a certain way, grow a certain way or produce a certain amount. Your geographic area, your local weather patterns, humidity levels, the quality/type of the soil, amount of shade, amount of sun, length of growing season, and more all play a role in how well your tomatoes grow, how much they produce and even affects the taste.

Some varieties have received a reputation as being difficult to grow and rightly (or wrongly) so. I think some of the varieties that some people seem do well with and others not have that pattern because of their sensitivity to the local conditions.

[rainbowgardener]

Garden grown tomatoes are better than store bought! While people may argue their favorite varieties and which taste better, your hybrids will give you nice garden grown tomatoes also.

[digitS']

I can remember the first "super" market I was ever in. The entrance was in the parking lot instead of on the sidewalk! There were strings of flags on ropes above the cars guiding us to the door.

Inside, there was so much light! Those fluorescent tubes really did their job, even if they did make people look a little blue. They also lit up the produce aisle! I'd never realized that some of those things looked so bad! Certainly by comparison to the processed food boxes . . .

Modern varieties are about looks and storage and shipping, etc. Some garden varieties are not about shipping. The story I once read about the Early Girl had it that the company where the breeders worked didn't want it because it wasn't going to ship well. The company that bought it weren't too sure about the Early Girl, either. It was a major step away from the farmer sales that was their bread & butter into the whims of the consumer market.

If we are talking only taste, that depends on the taster as has been pointed out. Nothing wrong with that. Some folks don't like the Sungold cherry. For some heirloom growers, Sungold is the only hybrid that they grow. Can't live without 'em. I can sympathize altho' it isn't the only hybrid I grow. It isn't even the only hybrid cherry that I grow.

Mostly what I like about the heirlooms is that some of them grow just fine in my garden and they have different flavors from others. Certainly, they differ from each other! I can save the seed and welcome back favorites like old friends. I can also try new ones each gardening year!

Steve

[tomc]

You can breed a tomato to pack and ship well, or be fragrant and tastey. But not both.

All great tomato are local. Local for a tomato is still warm from the garden. Anything else just isn't as good.

A never refrigerated tomato, warm from the sun and sprinkled with salt is mostly pretty good. But every once inna while you'll eat a really superb tomato. Alas that top shelf tomato does not always repeat.

But its so fun trying to repeat, that Carolyn Male hires a gardener to keep trying for her.

[imafan26]

I agree that microclimate and local conditions do matter and it is not just the variety. It has to be a variety that is adapted to your growing conditions.

Taste is well a matter of taste. Some people only like their tomatoes firm and sweet. Some people are turned off by tomatoes that are not red, and still others like the tomatoey sweet tart taste.

I think the definition of an heirloom was a variety that has been around at least 50 years. To stick around that long, someone must have thought the seed was worth planting and saving. New hybrids can taste very good. I do like sunsugar, sungold, and sweet mojo because I like sweet cherry tomatoes. I don't like yellow pear, or Jubilee which are also heirlooms because I do not like their tart taste.
I have had a very nice brandywine and because I value a firm tomato with a tender skin I actually like Amish paste, Better boy, and sweet 100 was unsurpassed for production.

I admit I have strange tastes, other people may not like my choices. My friend who loves tomatoes likes hers with a strong flavor and I prefer mine to be much blander.

There are so many varieties to choose from, it may take some trial and error, but there is something there for everyone.

[ElizabethB]

Even if you grow the same varieties as store bought yours will taste better because they are not force ripened.

My issue is region suitability. Some tomatoes just don't do well in south Louisiana. Too much heat and humidity and viruses. I have grown Brandywine - lovely and I really like Zebra tomatoes. Very appealing visually and nice tasting. Creole tomatoes are a main stay in southern gardens. I have grown Better Boy, Bigger Boy, New Girl and Early Girl. Heat Wave is good for late summer planting for those fall tomatoes.

It ALWAYS taste better straight from the garden!

Good luck

[feldon30]

Lowe's, Home Depot, and Walmart all get their plants from the same national company -- Bonnie's.

For some people in some years, Mr. Stripey has produced a "bull" plant which is all foliage and no flowers. Hopefully this rare event does not happen to you and you'll get excellent results with it! I think you'll find Pineapple tastes even better.

Brandywine is an incredible variety introduced in the Johnson & Stokes seed catalog in January 1889. Seeds for this variety were almost lost, but a prolific tomato collector Ben Quisenberry received seeds from Mrs. Doris Sudduth Hill and now we have this wonderful variety so widely available! Brandywine is a bit persnickety as far as heat and setting fruit, but as long as you have some cool evenings here and there, you will get production. In the right conditions, Brandywine will absolutely blow you away for flavor. Smooth, meaty, rich, almost like eating a steak if you can believe that. The Brandywine sold by Bonnie's is Pink Brandywine (ie Brandywine Sudduth's Strain).

My favorite heirloom sold by Bonnie's is Cherokee Purple. It has such an incredible flavor, almost like it's been drizzled with balsamic vinegar. They also sell Black Krim which is similar. If you like cherries, then Bonnie's sells two of the best -- Sungold and Black Cherry.

Even though I grow mostly heirlooms, every year, I grow Big Beef and Jet Star (another hybrid, this one from 1948) as well as Arkansas Traveler (a market variety developed at University of Arkansas). They're just reliable, predictable, and have an above average taste to me.

Any tomato can be bland in a cold, rainy year, or when grown in mostly sterile soil fed on a diet of chemical fertilizers (rather than a rich, loose soil full of organic matter, compost, and organic fertilizers). I've tasted over 200 tomato varieties at various tomato tastings, sometimes the same variety from different gardens grown in the same climate, and my conclusions are that every tomato variety has a "flavor potential".

I believe in starting those tomato varieties which are known for having a good flavor potential, but the rest is up to me as far as gardening ability and mother nature's weather plans.
[quote=Lonesomedave]I am really not interested in growing from seed...I just want good tomatoes....any suggestions for better choices next year?[/quote]
My suggestion: Find a local nursery if there are any left in your area. A true local nursery will have started many tomato varieties from seed. There are at least 6,000 known tomato varieties so don't limit yourself to the ~40 choices at the big box stores!

[Lonesomedave]

For some people in some years, Mr. Stripey has produced a "bull" plant which is all foliage and no flowers. Hopefully this rare event does not happen to you and you'll get excellent results with it! I think you'll find Pineapple tastes even better....

man....thanks a lot...you saved me....I had no idea

that's exactly what my Mr. Stripey was doing...I have a bunch of tomatoes, including several heirlooms and I wondered why Mr. Stripey was the only one without blooms...you answered it for me

cut 'em off, pulled up the roots and am going to get 3 new plants tomorrow for that particular container

[Bobberman]

I saved my pine apple seeds from last year and the new plants are about a foot tall now and ready to plant! I used the blender and put the seeds on a paper towel. They came up great and look sturdy. I have about 10 dozen of them and will probably give half away!