Need help identifying recently transplanted "mistery&qu

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Hi!
I received an established rose bush but have no clue what it is. I don't know anything about the differences in them...hybrid tea, floribunda, etc..

So far, all I know is that there are 12 canes coming strait out from the ground (hihi I wen't out and counted them!!). they don't seem to be grafted to anything. I can't see a "ball thing" LOL at the base of the plant. Sorry I don't know what that is called...the heel the onion

I can't wait to see what it is!!! For now, it's a mistery rose!!

My soil has a lot of clay, I added bone meal and lots of black earth. At first it looked dead. All the leaves died and I was left with just the 12 canes. Now, a month later, I have leaves growing and I think it's going to make it. Will it flower this year?
Question: All the canes are at the same height about 1 foot 1/2. Should they all be the same height? Should I prune it this fall or in the spring?

I've been very unsuccessful with roses in the past. I had 2 peace roses that only lasted 1 season... Any advice would be appreciated!
Thanks in advance!!

[The Helpful Gardener]

Rough neighborhood for roses; I hesitate to offer advice as I don't know what you have (nor do you ), and the pruning could change considerably from one type to the next.

I would prune everything back to where it is now later this fall just to keep it from thrashing itself to pieces this winter, but let's figure out what you've got before we start doling out advice (If those Peace roses had made more than the one season I'd have been stunned).

Gramps, anything to add here? Sounds like your kind of rose growing...

Scott

[grandpasrose]

Roses will grow anywhere if you are prepared to provide the necessary care for your area!
Yes, your canes can all be the same length, and I would not do any pruning until fall.
You were on the right track by adding bone meal and good soil to your hole, but should probably stir in a mulch of other materials as well, such as compost, manure, alfalfa meal, kelp, and you could even water it with some fish fertilizer. Roses are very heavy feeders, and require alot of ongoing nutrition to remain healthy.
You will not be able to tell which specific rose this is yet, but there are a few clues that may help tell what type it is at least. If you cannot find a "ball thing" (bud union or graft) it is probably an own root rose.
Are the leaves smooth or crinkly? Are the canes very thorny or not? Are the canes very stocky? Are the canes very straight or knobby? Give a bit more description and we may be able to get a little closer to what it is.
Did you protect your Peace roses from during the winter? What did you do? To see what I do, you can review my note in this forum under "Help, Roses Prune to Nub" - my note in the thread is dated June 28,2005.
Your area appears to be in a similar temperature Zone as mine, so winter care would be similar.
Hope this helps! Let us know how it is!
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

[The Helpful Gardener]

Thanks Val!

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Thanks a lot for your help!!! I love gardening and I'm prepared to take good care of them...Problem is I can do more harm than good if I don't know what I'm doing!! LOL

I will try the mulching idea and feed it. I can't wait to see what type of rose it it. THe canes are very prickly about the size of my baby finger and strait, the leaves are smooth and medium green with 7 leaves on each stem. Tiny little buds are starting to appear. they are quite small. Nothing blooming yet!

To protect the peace roses, I put 3 wood posts around each plant, wrapped burlap around it and put in lots of leaves in there...There was a lot of snow cover in the winter.
Is this ok?

[grandpasrose]

I suspect that you have some sort of shrub rose there, although we will have to wait and see when it blooms. If so, it will not need as much care as your Peace (Tea) roses did.
What you did with your peace roses is acceptable, although a couple of things of note: Leaves pack down quite quickly, and lose alot of their insulating value. Try either straw or even sawdust - I have used both. Also try to cover them with something water proof to keep them from getting any more moisture because if there is any thaw over the winter, and then a re-freeze, you will lose them. However, don't forget to give them a good drink in the fall, and don't cover them until you have already had a good frost.
You might also want to mulch them with some good compost before you cover them. The nutrients will settle in over the winter and your roses will love you!
Keep us informed as to your progress - I am curious what this rose is!
VAL (Grandpa's Rose)

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

thanks for the tips! I will keep you posted as soon as it blooms!

[The Helpful Gardener]

Val, what do you think of rose cones? Good, bad, or indifferent?

HG

[grandpasrose]

Personally, I am a bit nervous to try them, because we get such deep cold. They have such a large open space inside and it makes me a little uncomfortable. They probably are fine where winters are not as drastic as ours, and I have seen them for sale here, although not alot sitting out in people's gardens. I think if you were to use them in a colder climate like ours, you would still end up putting alot of mulch over top.
Also, when you have a large number of roses (like me - 70) it can get a little expensive!
How was that for wishy-washy!!

[The Helpful Gardener]

I am sure you are spot on there; they might be a good addition to the mulch regimen (not likely to harbor fungii in styrofoam). Makes good sense to me...

[grandpasrose]

They certainly would be a good addition, but I don't think a total replacement. But it all helps, especially in the colder climates!

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Though I would give an update on that mystery rose! Well it sure did flower! Lots of tiny fushia blooms about the size of a toonie. They are so pretty, but almost done now. THey have lots of petals, and they flowered all over...any clues...Could it be a minitiure rose?

I'm sorry I don't have a picture...

[grandpasrose]

Hi Tanya! I glad you got the rose to bloom for you! I have some more questions for you to try and narrow down what this rose might be. It would be really great if you could send us a picture.
How big did the bush get?
Did the petals have frilly edges on the tips?
Were there alot of petals to each flower?
Did it flower in clumps, or individually?
Did you let any of the flowers go to rosehips? If so, how big did they get?

Hopefully we can figure this one out for you!
VAL

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Hi Tanya! I glad you got the rose to bloom for you! I have some more questions for you to try and narrow down what this rose might be. It would be really great if you could send us a picture.
How big did the bush get?
Did the petals have frilly edges on the tips?
Were there alot of petals to each flower?
Did it flower in clumps, or individually?
Did you let any of the flowers go to rosehips? If so, how big did they get?

Hopefully we can figure this one out for you!
VAL

OK it's 11 oclock at night but I'll try to answer some questions...hehe
I looked at the bush today and it's pretty much done flowering...not sure if pics would help much. The bush is about 2 feet high by about 2 feet across. The foliage is mostly on top and the bottom part is just the canes.

About the petals, if I remember correctly, I think they were a bit frilly with lots of petals. The blooms were all fully opened and pretty dense bloom. They didn't look like tea roses or florist roses...They also didn't look like those fushia old-fashioned rose bushes our grandparents had.
It flowered in clumps, there was approximately 30 or more roses all over, there was possibly around 10 roses per cane. I haven't looked carefully enough to notice rose hips, but I would assume they would be small in size. The roses were a common fushia color.

I will look again tomorrow...

[grandpasrose]

Hey Tanya!
Go to these two photos, and see if they resemble what yours looked like. The one with the whole bush would be larger than yours because it is more developed, so yours would be shorter.

www.rumwoodnurseries.co.uk/
Then click on the Roses Tab halfway down the screen,
then click A to Z List of Roses,
then click on "R",
scroll down to "red grootendorst".
Click on the photo to enlarge it so you can see the detail of the flowers better.

www.rosegathering.com/ reddec.html This one is of the whole bush.

See what you think, let me know what is different, and we can go from there!
VAL

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Well Val! It seems pretty close! Now I went outside to try to compare but all my blooms are gone, darn it!

They are definetely in clusters like the pics... They are a bit more fushia than red. The blooms where a bit less big. I've checked and I didn't see any rose hips...The blooms are at the stage that they have just died and fallen off, just a few dried petals left.

I have a book on roses called The ultimate rose book by Peter McHoy. It has a lot of pictures in it and I'm going through it to see if anything looks like it..THe only thing is that this book doesn't have the scientific names.

It think it's pretty close! Now, if this shrub grows that big...I didn't really plant it in the right spot..hehehe

It must be a pretty common rose bush, I think. When it was growing at the other ladies house, I was told it was about a 10 to 15 year old rose. It wasn't more than 3 foot high. Maybe that would help...

[The Helpful Gardener]

'Red Fairy' might fit the description...

[grandpasrose]

I'm not sure that this is the one, but go to this picture and have a look.

roselandroses.com/.../ gs/gs-plr-redfairy.jpg

cat.hollyridgeonline.com/ Images/RosaRedFairy.JPG

This is the description:
Flowers are Double, rosette in shape, and tiny. It has a light fragrant apple scent.
The flowers come in large repeating clusters continuously. The size is 2.5 feet x 2.5, and it is strong and thorny stemmed, bushy-spreading with shiny fern-like Medium Green leaves.

Some of this doesn't sound like what you have described to me, but check it out and get back to me. We'll keep lookin'!!
VAL

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Thanks a lot guys,
I don't think that it's the red fairy It's more bubble gum pink, mine is a darker pink almost purple/burgundy...like this color

https://roselandroses.com/2005catalog/images/jp/jp-ar-rosederescht.jpg

Also, the red fairy has bigger flowers. Mine is probably half that, maybe a quarter of that size. They are very small blooms, almost like a carnation.

[The Helpful Gardener]

Val, I'd be suprised to find it's 'Rose De Rescht', especially if the flowers are smaller than 'Fairy' , which in itself seems odd. I defer to your superior knowledge of roses (he said, slinking off )

HG

[grandpasrose]

Scott, I don't think she was meaning that it was "Rose de Rescht", just that it was the right colour to use to identify hers!!! I don't know why you'd be slinking off because of that! I have my suspicions what it is, but haven't had time to confirm it yet. Not to worry, every little bit helps!
VAL

[grandpasrose]

Okay Tanya - after much thought, and review, and second guessing myself, I have come up with a rose that I think meets all of the criteria that you have given me in your previous posts. Your criteria included:

-Darker pink-almost burgundy or fuschia in color;
- very small blooms the size of a toonie like a carnation;
- blooms in clusters;
- foliage mostly on top,
- bottom mostly canes;
- bloom had lots of petals that were a bit frilly, open and pretty dense;
- not like tea roses, florist roses those fuschia roses our grandparents had (hansas);
- flowered in clumps,
- approximately 10 blooms per cane, with 30 or more roses all over;
- very prickly canes the size of your baby finger;
- not grafted;

I have found a rose that meets every one of these criteria, and even looks to me to be the same color as the picture as you sent of "Rose De Rescht". It is known as the carnation rose. Take a look at this, and tell me what you think of it.

www.springvalleyroses.com/ catalog/grootendorstsupreme.html

Let me know what is different about it or right about it, and I'll keep looking.
VAL

[Tanya_NB_4B/5A]

Well Val! I think you've got it! Or at least we're very close...It's too bad that it's no longer in bloom and I can't compare...Next year I will definetely take a picture and post it.

Thank you so much!
Now would this rose be common in NB?

Once again, thank you for your time! You're awesome and you sure know your roses!!

[The Helpful Gardener]

That would be a great rose for your area with the hardiness of the R. rugosa parentage. I think Val's done it again!

HG

[grandpasrose]

We really won't know for sure until you have a photo you can send me of the bloom, but until then, let's say it is "Grootendorst Supreme". This is a hybrid rugosa bred by F.J. Grootendorst in 1936 in the Netherlands. It is a sport off the original F.J. Grootendorst rugosa hybrid originating in 1918.

"Grootendorst Supreme" belongs to a group of 4 Grootendorst Rugosa Hybrids. These roses are unusual among Rugosa's in that they have no scent, and that they have crimped edges to their petals, leading them to be nicknamed "carnation roses". The only difference between all four hybrids is their color - red, pink, white, dark red (yours).

The flowers are double, come in clusters, usually of 7 to 15, that bloom throughout the season, and they have rich, green foliage. Their thick green stems are very thorny, and turn grey as they are older. This rose can grow to be 5 to 6 feet tall, and can become lanky and spread out without pruning.

This is an extremely hardy rose, hardy to Zone 3 and higher. Grootendorst is a very common Rugosa Hybrid rose, although "Grootendorst Supreme" is not seen often.

It has won the Classic Shrub Award ARS in San Joaquin Valley in 2001, and the Victorian ARS award in Greater Cincinnati in 2000.

"Grootendorst Supreme" requires little in the way of attention to perform, and will last for many years to come.
I have 3 Grootendorst Rugosa's myself, and they get the least care of all my roses, and they just keep on going. It's almost as if the more I ignore them, the more they're trying to grab my attention!!

Enjoy your rose and send my a photo when it blooms!!!!
VAL